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Does ar10 require good monitor and high FPS?

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-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
I see 6% (2 of these have since switched - so 4% currently) out of 100, www switch, index switched, jesus switched, cookie switched, there's arguments on both sides, but with 144hz becoming more the norm with each passing day. Kind of hard pressed to make me see your case as it was, seeing that high refresh rates will be the way of many very soon.
No it will not for one particular reason: money vs what it gives. 144hz is nothing in great amount of games, not mention you don't use 144 in office work at all. There are single titles what benefits from it and honestly, in every single one there will be people proving their superiority with 60hz over players with 144hz. Deal with this. 144 buying people who have money for this just for their experience. Normaly you don't need it at all to be a pro player and that i already proved.

AR11 don't require 144hz at all - WWW proved this, EP proved this, hvick proved this.
Last edited by -Makishima S- , edited 1 time in total.
Clappy
373 posts
Joined May 2013
Clappy

Khelly wrote:

I have no need to switch to 144hz except to have 144hz because the benefits won't be as huge as you seem to claim.

Khelly wrote:

Where did you even get this from?
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Clappy wrote:

Khelly wrote:

I have no need to switch to 144hz except to have 144hz because the benefits won't be as huge as you seem to claim.

Khelly wrote:

Where did you even get this from?
So what does this have to do with returning the monitor because it's trash? It has to do with not switching in the first place. I even said I'd take it if you give me a lifetime supply of 144hz for free though.
Clappy
373 posts
Joined May 2013
Clappy

[Taiga] wrote:

No it will not for one particular reason: money vs what it gives. 144hz is nothing in great amount of games, not mention you don't use 144 in office work at all. There are single titles what benefits from it and honestly, in every single one there will be people proving their superiority with 60hz over players with 144hz. Deal with this. 144 buying people who have money for this just for their experience. Normaly you don't need it at all to be a pro player and that i already proved.

AR11 don't require 144hz at all - WWW proved this, EP proved this, hvick proved this.
It's like saying man, tablets aren't necessity when the vast majority of the osu! community uses them. You can be pro without yes, you have proved that, but what are the chances of you being hvick or www? Especially since our better players are switching them anyways? If they don't need them why fix what aint broke and get a 144hz anyways?
In League of Legends LCS, the monitors they use are the Asus VG248QE.
In CS they use 144hz monitor or some variant + interpoling that gives 240hz.
Do you play osu in an office?
Higher refresh monitors, in a gaming enviroment, are always a plus and you're only gimping yourself and what you may achieve without them. You're not pro on 60hz but damn hvick and EP are. 2 out of many fish in the sea?
Clappy
373 posts
Joined May 2013
Clappy

Khelly wrote:

So what does this have to do with returning the monitor because it's trash? It has to do with not switching in the first place. I even said I'd take it if you give me a lifetime supply of 144hz for free though.
I'm damn sure a crackhead would be ecstatic at a free lifetime supply of crack too, but the point is you're saying you don't need it to be pro, when the evidence suggests otherwise. There are VERY few cases for your arguments and PLENTY for mine.

EDIT: You're saying you want a product for free that supposedly better than an inferior product. Who wouldn't take that. Even warranties on 144hz monitors are better so your money is certainly backed better by companies etc. If cost over time is a concern, you can bet dollars-to-donuts that you're getting more for your buck in 144hz anyways.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
y do ppl spended hours in heated debate of monitors
y not enjoy game
Clappy
373 posts
Joined May 2013
Clappy

Kisses wrote:

y do ppl spended hours in heated debate of monitors
y not enjoy game
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
It's like saying man, tablets aren't necessity when the vast majority of the osu! community uses them.
One more time - comparing pointing devices to display device - faceplam.

You can be pro without yes, you have proved that, but what are the chances of you being hvick or www? Especially since our better players are switching them anyways? If they don't need them why fix what aint broke and get a 144hz anyways?
Upgrading hardware normally thinks getting better performance. Why you don't say that over 80% or even 90% of this people upgraded FULL HARDWARE including PC? Oh wait, so for now getting PC from NASA also boost your performance in Osu? If i had money to upgrade my case, i would also take 144hz because why not? Here how it works. Simple.

In League of Legends LCS, the monitors they use are the Asus VG248QE.
In CS they use 144hz monitor or some variant + interpoling that gives 240hz.
Same as in every big tournament hosted by companies with huge wealth - they give players top tier hardware. It proves nothing here. It's actually "armaments race" between Valve / Riot / WarGaming who host more luxory and most geared tournament.

Do you play osu in an office?
My workspace doesn't care what i do when i am in office as far as my job is constantly done before time so yes, it happens.

Higher refresh monitors, in a gaming enviroment, are always a plus and you're only gimping yourself and what you may achieve without them. You're not pro on 60hz but damn hvick and EP are. 2 out of many fish in the sea?
I never said anything about myself, where you took this?
Yes, hvick and EP are pro.
Just don't get me into spending couple of hours into checking / asking each player about his screen and gathering information HOW MANY (you could be very supprised) in top100 uses 60hz and don't even care to switch into 144. As i said, you could be supprised.

y do ppl spended hours in heated debate of monitors
y not enjoy game
This is forum, it's a place to make this kind of discussions and exchange opinions and POV. Top kek lol.
Clappy
373 posts
Joined May 2013
Clappy
1) How is a pointing device, in this case a device that gives you absolute tracking opposed to positional tracking any different from a monitor that gives a little more than two frames for its counterpart which gives one. They are both superfluous, luxury items that give you an advantage in game, since one has a little better track record in osu! (the tablet) people for the most part say, yeah tablet is sort of the way to go because it gives you an advantage because of one major issue - mouse drift. Who's to say visual frames (notorious for ghosting) are any different? Yes, you have your outliers, same with mouse, but the a bigger majority say 144hz is better and a tablet is not cheap by any means, 80 bucks for a device that is propriety to osu? I only say propriety, because the better portion of us aren't are graphic designers.

2) I've already stated that you're paying a premium for a premium product, which gives you a premium edge. Whether or not it is noticeable enough to warrant cost is up to the consumer, you're saying it's not when you can't say from first hand experience. You're saying people in the past have done great with 60, but the same people that have broken "the DiVinci Code" of osu are still switching to 144hz monitors.

3) Same as 2.

4) Besides the point

5) Tell me someone that gets a 144hz monitor then says its not worth their investment then returns it, if any, they are little because it's not a necessity, but you're getting what you pay for. That's with anything in life.

PS: Next thing you know, shit fingers are no longer necessary to go pro guys you can stub your way to the top just like this guy did in counter-strike. Just enjoy gaem and play m0re l0l.

-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
5) Tell me someone that gets a 144hz monitor then says its not worth their investment then returns it, if any, they are little because it's not a necessity, but you're getting what you pay for. That's with anything in life.
God damn, it's not a point here, obviously you don't return a luxury item.
The main point is - you DO NOT NEED IT to be best of the best.
You DO NOT NEED 144hz monitor to make scores like Cookiezi, Rafis or hvick.
It's a luxury item which works more like helping items from item shops in MMO - you buy it = some aspects of the game may be easier at CERTAIN POINT.
It's an addition which makes SINGLE PARTS of gameplay easier but NOT ALL - main component is still the same - your skill level which means - reading ability, complexity pattern control, speed and stamina. If you don't have this once - even over9000hz monitor + 0 input lag tablet + optical 0 input lag of your choice switch mech keyboard will not help you.
Clappy
373 posts
Joined May 2013
Clappy

[Taiga] wrote:

some aspects of the game may be easier at CERTAIN POINT
Unless you're a grill who just got handed a 144hz monitor by some dumbass donator on stream you're more than likely to have some experience with the game to indulge in tablets, keyboard, 144hz monitor, whatever luxury item you may have. But believe me when I tell you, the monitor makes reading easier... If don't believe it, I'll just indulge in my 250 Dollar placebo. While you're waiting around for a free stack of 144hz monitors for the rest of your life.

Car Salesman: "[Taiga]! Sir did you pay for half a car? Let me get you the whole car because you expect it."

Like what the flying dogfuck world do you live in to even say yeah, I'll take a free stack of 144hz Monitors. Wouldn't expect free 60hz monitors, why 144hz?
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
But believe me when I tell you, the monitor makes reading easier... If don't believe it, I'll just indulge in my 250 Dollar placebo. While you're waiting around for a free stack of 144hz monitors for the rest of your life.
Believe me or not, practicing complex patterns makes my reading better. If i will want 144 monitor, i will buy it, i just don't feel like buying something what will be complete waste of money. By my ideology as adult guy - if you can save up money because you still can get something with enough practice - do it. I prefer save up and buy better car / fund good international trip for parents than spend for some useless item which... let's be honest can be easily replaced by better skillcap.

Car Salesman: "[Taiga]! Sir did you pay for half a car? Let me get you the whole car because you expect it."
That is plain stupid *facepalm*

Sry dude, i am not used to spend money for something that can be replaced by workout. If 144hz could give advantage that nothing else can replace it, then it is the point to consider. So far it just makes certain parts of game easier but not unable to play for 60hz user.
Kunino Sagiri
272 posts
Joined January 2012
Kunino Sagiri
here's your reply
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
144 > 60 > 40 > 20 > 8 > 2 > 0.5hz monitor

does dis make sense or do I have this backwards?
Deva
2,343 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva
Is this seriously?
sayonara_sekai
376 posts
Joined November 2010
sayonara_sekai
are people seriously saying that high hz monitors arent objectively better for gaming than 60hz ITT? glad to see things never change around here

go ask invite level CS players if it makes a difference
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

jesse1412 wrote:

144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother.
Daily reminder that this reminder is not daily.
Risa
435 posts
Joined January 2014
Risa
Answering main question : I play with an old cheapo laptop with 100+ FPS ( 200 at best ) and can read AR10 just fine
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii
Mmkay, I don't know why everyone's getting all butthurt over the monitors they use, but I'll just throw this in here:
1. Yes, 144Hz monitors are objectively better than 60Hz monitors.
2. No, you don't need a 144Hz monitor to read AR10.
3. The "advantage" is a lot bigger when playing FPSes and other games that have fast movement spanning across the entire screen. In osu!, this isn't really the case, so your mileage may vary.

Seriously though, take a step outside, or go take a nap, or something. Relax. It's not like your life depends on what type of monitor other people use.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

Clappy wrote:

jesse1412 wrote:

I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother. People seem to believe "smoother" is easier somehow.
We can get into a debate about what the eye can see (l0l 30fps is all you n33d h4h4 stupid pc gamer wasting money on 144hz when their 3y3s cant s33 it h4h4). Skip the bullshit and tell me the perceived clarity of motion does not make it easier to react to a patterns at higher ar's? Perfect example, I was shit at reading triples at anything higher than ar9 pre144hz monitor. Post144hz monitor, I can magically react to it? If you were able to read higher ar's without 144hz than good for you, you were either genetically hardwired for osu or worked harder than most to learn higher ar's at 60hz.

Now lets throw some hypotheticals, it is damn-near impossible for you to lose a skill like this (osu!) without severe brain trauma. But, if you did succumb to such trauma (god forbid) would you take the trip to mastering osu again with 60hz or 144hz? They exist for a reason, it is not just some big ass marketing scheme.

Companies like ASUS, BenQ, AOC, and Phillips are cashing in big time on placebo? Or (more likely) the perceived clarity of motion that higher refresh rates have to offer.
You can definitely notice higher than 60 and it looks smoother but it really doesn't help.

Clappy wrote:

Take a sample of the top 100 player base on 60hz and compare to 144hz. If it does not matter ask your top players to play without 144hz. You're just blowing smoke. A 144hz monitor provides a much different visual signature than its 60hz counterpart and it is superhelpful. You're all saying its not necessity, by that same logic a tablet and keyboard isn't a necessity. Let's see a 60hz, walmart mouse-only player top 1000. There might be one, hell MAYBE two.

IIRC doomsday was upset when his £5 shitmouse that was 10 years old died.

Clappy wrote:

[Taiga] wrote:

You can normaly get into pro skill level top10 with 60hz
Funny as hell that 7 of our top 10 players (pp wise) are using 144hz monitors.
Cmon we both know if those 7 changed to 60hz tomorrow they'd still do just as well.

Obviously 144hz > 60hz but it's really not an "advantage", it just looks a little smoother. Anything you can do on 144 you can do on 60. It's definitely a luxary to have a 144hz but I personally will not be buying another one after my current one dies.

I might try dropping back to 60 for a session and reporting back on if it really feels worse.
Deva
2,343 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva
get 5 tablets, 7 mechs and 3 144hz monitors and be insta cookiezi!
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz
Motion blur plays a huge role on the human perception of smoothness. For video with life like motion blur (ie. real life footage) the human eye has difficulties discerning differences above 30 (60?) fps. Shooting games rely on cgi which is notorious for having unrealistic motion blur. Osu has a low degree of motion in comparison. The only reason I know when my gsync is on is the in game cursor lag.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,312 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
If I was to base skill points on just the ability to react to a something on a screen by pressing a button (like a typical measure your reaction game), these would be the skill requirement values:

.............AR 10................AR 10.3............AR 11
.60 Hz...289.401..............370.546.............754.161
144 Hz..275.282..............350.456.............698.931

As you can see, there is barely any difference between skill requirement for 60 Hz and for 144 Hz on AR 10. The skill requirement difference between the refresh rates for AR 11, however, is comparable to the difference between AR 10 and AR 10.3. Just as a reminder, you can achieve these skill requirements with enough practice anyway, granted a player would achieve the same skill requirement faster with a 144 Hz.

So no, AR 10 DOES NOT require a good monitor and high FPS. Just play more.
Deva
2,343 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva
But that means id be able to play ar11 on 144hz :o

Brb buying new monitor
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial
Plz enjoi gamu ?!
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

abraker wrote:

If I was to base skill points on just the ability to react to a something on a screen by pressing a button (like a typical measure your reaction game), these would be the skill requirement values:

.............AR 10................AR 10.3............AR 11
.60 Hz...289.401..............370.546.............754.161
144 Hz..275.282..............350.456.............698.931

As you can see, there is barely any difference between skill requirement for 60 Hz and for 144 Hz on AR 10. The skill requirement difference between the refresh rates for AR 11, however, is comparable to the difference between AR 10 and AR 10.3. Just as a reminder, you can achieve these skill requirements with enough practice anyway, granted a player would achieve the same skill requirement faster with a 144 Hz.

So no, AR 10 DOES NOT require a good monitor and high FPS. Just play more.
What units are these numbers in?
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up
Danks per minute.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,312 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Khelly wrote:

What units are these numbers in?
A skill requirement of 1000 is based on the median reaction time and a skill requirement of 500 is based on the average reaction time of the lower half of the userbase. Data has been modeled according to the statistics found here (data was modified to match the trend for <140ms and other discrepancies).

So a skill requirement of 1000 equates to 240 ms and a skill requirement of 500 equates to 350 ms. The modeled function is a/(x^b).
Last edited by abraker , edited 2 times in total.
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up
This actually convince me to get a 144Hz CRT. After I get my gaming USB fan first that is more important.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

abraker wrote:

Khelly wrote:

What units are these numbers in?
A skill requirement of 1000 is based on the median reaction time and a skill requirement of 500 is based on the average reaction time of the lower half of the userbase. Data has been modeled according to the statistics found here (data was modified to match the trend for <140ms and other discrepancies).

So a skill requirement of 1000 equates to 240 ms and a skill requirement of 500 equates to 350 ms. The modeled function is a/(x^b).
I like how at 60 hz it's still well below the median reaction time at ar 10.3
abraker
Global Moderator
8,312 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Please note this is based on a "measure your reaction" kind of game. There is some overhead with eye movement and cursor movement, so don't be surprised that 10.3 is below the median without those.
Novalogic
222 posts
Joined October 2009
Novalogic
Also, to all those going about how human eye can only see up to 30 fps: http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
sayonara_sekai
376 posts
Joined November 2010
sayonara_sekai

Novalogic wrote:

Also, to all those going about how human eye can only see up to 30 fps: http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
yeah high refresh rate being a placebo is such bullshit. If you put the second sphere at 120hz its a bit ahead of the 60hz one and looks much smoother. I used to get killed by peeking players in CS before I even saw them with a 60hz monitor and that stopped the moment I got my new one

how beneficial its really for osu I cant say. probably makes a difference at ARs above 10. The game looks much much smoother at least
Spirit_Dreamer
81 posts
Joined June 2013
Spirit_Dreamer
Nope it's not required.A bad pc and periphery can be a problem, but average pc/periphery is enough(at least up to AR10,going to AR11 probably start to matter a little if you use 144hz monitor,but even then just a little and still not required).Anything above average is just for feeling nicer.The placebo effect can be explained by:

Great periphery is not equal to insta better skill.
but great periphery = nicer feeling while playing = more fun = playing more = gradualy getting better xD
abraker
Global Moderator
8,312 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Alright in regards to how much fps the eye can see, let's assume there is no such thing as a plecebo for this arguement. I can see a 45hz CRT flash easy, and can get headaches by staring at a 60hz LED for too long. While I can't probably "see" flashing beyond that, I can very well sense it and its like that annoying feeling I get by starring at a red laser pointer.

Motion blur fixes these problems by making things appear more smooth. Thats why incadecent bulbs dont give me as much headaches as LEDs even though they can both run at 60hz. Incandecent bulbs have a terrible responce time, taking some 100ms to fully go from bright to dark while LEDs do it on an order of microseconds. Thats more inline with color, shade, and persistance of vision perception rather than how fast your eye can see. You won't notice two close shades of color at 60hz as opposed to high contrast black and white flashing at 60hz.

Does it help with responce time? Yes, but with exponentially diminishing results. A 60hz is obviously better than a 45hz, but there is debate when it comes to 144hz vs 60hz because the results have a difference at which we cannot percieve easily without thorough investigation. I have no idea how much fps the eye can really see, but even assuming it's infinite, you are still not going to get much after a certain point.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

abraker wrote:

I have no idea how much fps the eye can really see, but even assuming it's infinite, you are still not going to get much after a certain point
The polling rate of the eye is pretty irrelevant. The eye-brain system is similar to the keyboard-osu system except your brain is like osu running at 60fps. If your keyboard is polling at 1000hz osu will receive ~17 updates per frame but it only really cares about whether the keystate changed in any of these updates and throws most of them out.

Similarly, the brain receives a whole bunch of polls from the eye and tries to do a dimensionality reduction on this data to extract the relevant features with which to do pattern recognition on. You can think of motion blur and fps as reducing into similar features. In the presence of motion blur you can essentially interpolate the missing frames and thus get richer features that make pattern recognition easier. Alternatively, if motion blur isn't present you need more frames to extract the same richness of features to recognize the same patterns. The thing is regardless of how many effective frames your brain has to work with, there are only so many potential features it can observe. Once you have sufficient effective frames you no longer get anything out of having more.

The 30 (60?) fps metric for what the human eye can perceive assumes a sufficient level of motion blur is present and in general holds true for real life footage.

jesse1412 wrote:

I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother.
Daily reminder that this reminder is not daily.
E m i
E m i
144hz can make ar10.3333333333333333333333333333333 seem like ar10.30!
60hz 3ms response time monitor, playing at 400 fps? "sufficient"
get 144hz 1ms, get a new computer or something. you might make ar9.6666666666666666 into ar9.60.
negligible benefit? yes.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Momiji wrote:

negligible benefit? yes.
BUT NEGLIGIBLE \geq 0 SO OBJECTIVELY BETTER!!!!it's not actually, they are indistinguishable
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412
No one is arguing that you can't percieve refresh rates over 30hz. That's total bullshit. it's p obvious and you can literally change ANYONE'S mind within 3 seconds of them looking at a 144hz monitor displaying 30 - 60 -120 - 144hz comparisons.

Whether the refresh rate makes osu! easier is a much more debatable topic.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

jesse1412 wrote:

No one is arguing that you can't percieve refresh rates over 30hz. That's total bullshit. it's p obvious and you can literally change ANYONE'S mind within 3 seconds of them looking at a 144hz monitor displaying 30 - 60 -120 - 144hz comparisons.

Whether the refresh rate makes osu! easier is a much more debatable topic.
Did you play 60hz again yet?
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

Khelly wrote:

jesse1412 wrote:

No one is arguing that you can't percieve refresh rates over 30hz. That's total bullshit. it's p obvious and you can literally change ANYONE'S mind within 3 seconds of them looking at a 144hz monitor displaying 30 - 60 -120 - 144hz comparisons.

Whether the refresh rate makes osu! easier is a much more debatable topic.
Did you play 60hz again yet?
Tbf I just gave it a quick test and 60 was UNBEARABLE. To be fair it did kinda play worse at 10.3. Didn't try higher AR though and definitely didn't test thoroughly. Maybe my transition to 144hz was just slower or something but fucking hell 60 looks like 30 used to. Bit annoying tbf because now I'll never want to play osu! on a < 144hz screen again.

^ Based on like 5 minutes of rusted ice-cold sleepy gameplay but still pretty fuckin crazy after checking it out. I definitely didn't notice ANY advantage from going from 60 to 144 but I can feel the downgrade on the way back down like a brick wall.
sayonara_sekai
376 posts
Joined November 2010
sayonara_sekai
exactly. high refresh rate monitor are kinda bad because going back to 60hz is total ass
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding

sayonara_sekai wrote:

exactly. 5* restaurants are kinda bad because going back to fast food is total ass
Ok dad
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Kisses wrote:

sayonara_sekai wrote:

exactly. 5* restaurants are kinda bad because going back to fast food is total ass
Ok dad
If you subsist on fast food a lot like I do then yes.

Also why would you waste money on 5* restaurants
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
Fast food doesn't necessarily have to be junk food. I eat out all the time, but I get wholesome food not crap deep fried in highly processed vegetable oils with sugary drinks. It's not really that much more expensive.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding

Khelly wrote:

If you subsist on fast food a lot like I do then yes.

Also why would you waste money on 5* restaurants
Thats how people who dont have osu enjoy life, so I've heard
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Kisses wrote:

Khelly wrote:

If you subsist on fast food a lot like I do then yes.

Also why would you waste money on 5* restaurants
Thats how people who dont have osu enjoy life, so I've heard

They dont know how to enjoy waifuism
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Someone told me to try to fc 9.3+DT even though I never really play above ar 9 + DT. I gave it a try. It's still very possible on 60 hz.



abraker
Global Moderator
8,312 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Nobody said it's impossible. Also I don't think the effects between 60Hz vs 144Hz is strong enough for it to hinder your ability to do AR 9.3 on 60Hz.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
I'm just adding to the pile
gregest
809 posts
Joined February 2014
gregest
I get 100-150 fps and like 10ms 4Head
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