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Does ar10 require good monitor and high FPS?
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144 > 60 > 40 > 20 > 8 > 2 > 0.5hz monitor
does dis make sense or do I have this backwards?
does dis make sense or do I have this backwards?
Is this seriously?
are people seriously saying that high hz monitors arent objectively better for gaming than 60hz ITT? glad to see things never change around here
go ask invite level CS players if it makes a difference
go ask invite level CS players if it makes a difference
Daily reminder that this reminder is not daily.jesse1412 wrote:
144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother.
Answering main question : I play with an old cheapo laptop with 100+ FPS ( 200 at best ) and can read AR10 just fine
Mmkay, I don't know why everyone's getting all butthurt over the monitors they use, but I'll just throw this in here:
1. Yes, 144Hz monitors are objectively better than 60Hz monitors.
2. No, you don't need a 144Hz monitor to read AR10.
3. The "advantage" is a lot bigger when playing FPSes and other games that have fast movement spanning across the entire screen. In osu!, this isn't really the case, so your mileage may vary.
Seriously though, take a step outside, or go take a nap, or something. Relax. It's not like your life depends on what type of monitor other people use.
1. Yes, 144Hz monitors are objectively better than 60Hz monitors.
2. No, you don't need a 144Hz monitor to read AR10.
3. The "advantage" is a lot bigger when playing FPSes and other games that have fast movement spanning across the entire screen. In osu!, this isn't really the case, so your mileage may vary.
Seriously though, take a step outside, or go take a nap, or something. Relax. It's not like your life depends on what type of monitor other people use.
You can definitely notice higher than 60 and it looks smoother but it really doesn't help.Clappy wrote:
We can get into a debate about what the eye can see (l0l 30fps is all you n33d h4h4 stupid pc gamer wasting money on 144hz when their 3y3s cant s33 it h4h4). Skip the bullshit and tell me the perceived clarity of motion does not make it easier to react to a patterns at higher ar's? Perfect example, I was shit at reading triples at anything higher than ar9 pre144hz monitor. Post144hz monitor, I can magically react to it? If you were able to read higher ar's without 144hz than good for you, you were either genetically hardwired for osu or worked harder than most to learn higher ar's at 60hz.jesse1412 wrote:
I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother. People seem to believe "smoother" is easier somehow.
Now lets throw some hypotheticals, it is damn-near impossible for you to lose a skill like this (osu!) without severe brain trauma. But, if you did succumb to such trauma (god forbid) would you take the trip to mastering osu again with 60hz or 144hz? They exist for a reason, it is not just some big ass marketing scheme.
Companies like ASUS, BenQ, AOC, and Phillips are cashing in big time on placebo? Or (more likely) the perceived clarity of motion that higher refresh rates have to offer.
Clappy wrote:
Take a sample of the top 100 player base on 60hz and compare to 144hz. If it does not matter ask your top players to play without 144hz. You're just blowing smoke. A 144hz monitor provides a much different visual signature than its 60hz counterpart and it is superhelpful. You're all saying its not necessity, by that same logic a tablet and keyboard isn't a necessity. Let's see a 60hz, walmart mouse-only player top 1000. There might be one, hell MAYBE two.
IIRC doomsday was upset when his £5 shitmouse that was 10 years old died.
Cmon we both know if those 7 changed to 60hz tomorrow they'd still do just as well.Clappy wrote:
Funny as hell that 7 of our top 10 players (pp wise) are using 144hz monitors.[Taiga] wrote:
You can normaly get into pro skill level top10 with 60hz
Obviously 144hz > 60hz but it's really not an "advantage", it just looks a little smoother. Anything you can do on 144 you can do on 60. It's definitely a luxary to have a 144hz but I personally will not be buying another one after my current one dies.
I might try dropping back to 60 for a session and reporting back on if it really feels worse.
get 5 tablets, 7 mechs and 3 144hz monitors and be insta cookiezi!
Motion blur plays a huge role on the human perception of smoothness. For video with life like motion blur (ie. real life footage) the human eye has difficulties discerning differences above 30 (60?) fps. Shooting games rely on cgi which is notorious for having unrealistic motion blur. Osu has a low degree of motion in comparison. The only reason I know when my gsync is on is the in game cursor lag.
If I was to base skill points on just the ability to react to a something on a screen by pressing a button (like a typical measure your reaction game), these would be the skill requirement values:
.............AR 10................AR 10.3............AR 11
.60 Hz...289.401..............370.546.............754.161
144 Hz..275.282..............350.456.............698.931
As you can see, there is barely any difference between skill requirement for 60 Hz and for 144 Hz on AR 10. The skill requirement difference between the refresh rates for AR 11, however, is comparable to the difference between AR 10 and AR 10.3. Just as a reminder, you can achieve these skill requirements with enough practice anyway, granted a player would achieve the same skill requirement faster with a 144 Hz.
So no, AR 10 DOES NOT require a good monitor and high FPS. Just play more.
.............AR 10................AR 10.3............AR 11
.60 Hz...289.401..............370.546.............754.161
144 Hz..275.282..............350.456.............698.931
As you can see, there is barely any difference between skill requirement for 60 Hz and for 144 Hz on AR 10. The skill requirement difference between the refresh rates for AR 11, however, is comparable to the difference between AR 10 and AR 10.3. Just as a reminder, you can achieve these skill requirements with enough practice anyway, granted a player would achieve the same skill requirement faster with a 144 Hz.
So no, AR 10 DOES NOT require a good monitor and high FPS. Just play more.
But that means id be able to play ar11 on 144hz 
Brb buying new monitor
Brb buying new monitor
Plz enjoi gamu ?!
What units are these numbers in?abraker wrote:
If I was to base skill points on just the ability to react to a something on a screen by pressing a button (like a typical measure your reaction game), these would be the skill requirement values:
.............AR 10................AR 10.3............AR 11
.60 Hz...289.401..............370.546.............754.161
144 Hz..275.282..............350.456.............698.931
As you can see, there is barely any difference between skill requirement for 60 Hz and for 144 Hz on AR 10. The skill requirement difference between the refresh rates for AR 11, however, is comparable to the difference between AR 10 and AR 10.3. Just as a reminder, you can achieve these skill requirements with enough practice anyway, granted a player would achieve the same skill requirement faster with a 144 Hz.
So no, AR 10 DOES NOT require a good monitor and high FPS. Just play more.
Danks per minute.
A skill requirement of 1000 is based on the median reaction time and a skill requirement of 500 is based on the average reaction time of the lower half of the userbase. Data has been modeled according to the statistics found here (data was modified to match the trend for <140ms and other discrepancies).Khelly wrote:
What units are these numbers in?
So a skill requirement of 1000 equates to 240 ms and a skill requirement of 500 equates to 350 ms. The modeled function is a/(x^b).
This actually convince me to get a 144Hz CRT. After I get my gaming USB fan first that is more important.
I like how at 60 hz it's still well below the median reaction time at ar 10.3abraker wrote:
A skill requirement of 1000 is based on the median reaction time and a skill requirement of 500 is based on the average reaction time of the lower half of the userbase. Data has been modeled according to the statistics found here (data was modified to match the trend for <140ms and other discrepancies).Khelly wrote:
What units are these numbers in?
So a skill requirement of 1000 equates to 240 ms and a skill requirement of 500 equates to 350 ms. The modeled function is a/(x^b).
Please note this is based on a "measure your reaction" kind of game. There is some overhead with eye movement and cursor movement, so don't be surprised that 10.3 is below the median without those.
Also, to all those going about how human eye can only see up to 30 fps: http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
yeah high refresh rate being a placebo is such bullshit. If you put the second sphere at 120hz its a bit ahead of the 60hz one and looks much smoother. I used to get killed by peeking players in CS before I even saw them with a 60hz monitor and that stopped the moment I got my new oneNovalogic wrote:
Also, to all those going about how human eye can only see up to 30 fps: http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
how beneficial its really for osu I cant say. probably makes a difference at ARs above 10. The game looks much much smoother at least
Nope it's not required.A bad pc and periphery can be a problem, but average pc/periphery is enough(at least up to AR10,going to AR11 probably start to matter a little if you use 144hz monitor,but even then just a little and still not required).Anything above average is just for feeling nicer.The placebo effect can be explained by:
Great periphery is not equal to insta better skill.
but great periphery = nicer feeling while playing = more fun = playing more = gradualy getting better xD
Great periphery is not equal to insta better skill.
but great periphery = nicer feeling while playing = more fun = playing more = gradualy getting better xD
Alright in regards to how much fps the eye can see, let's assume there is no such thing as a plecebo for this arguement. I can see a 45hz CRT flash easy, and can get headaches by staring at a 60hz LED for too long. While I can't probably "see" flashing beyond that, I can very well sense it and its like that annoying feeling I get by starring at a red laser pointer.
Motion blur fixes these problems by making things appear more smooth. Thats why incadecent bulbs dont give me as much headaches as LEDs even though they can both run at 60hz. Incandecent bulbs have a terrible responce time, taking some 100ms to fully go from bright to dark while LEDs do it on an order of microseconds. Thats more inline with color, shade, and persistance of vision perception rather than how fast your eye can see. You won't notice two close shades of color at 60hz as opposed to high contrast black and white flashing at 60hz.
Does it help with responce time? Yes, but with exponentially diminishing results. A 60hz is obviously better than a 45hz, but there is debate when it comes to 144hz vs 60hz because the results have a difference at which we cannot percieve easily without thorough investigation. I have no idea how much fps the eye can really see, but even assuming it's infinite, you are still not going to get much after a certain point.
Motion blur fixes these problems by making things appear more smooth. Thats why incadecent bulbs dont give me as much headaches as LEDs even though they can both run at 60hz. Incandecent bulbs have a terrible responce time, taking some 100ms to fully go from bright to dark while LEDs do it on an order of microseconds. Thats more inline with color, shade, and persistance of vision perception rather than how fast your eye can see. You won't notice two close shades of color at 60hz as opposed to high contrast black and white flashing at 60hz.
Does it help with responce time? Yes, but with exponentially diminishing results. A 60hz is obviously better than a 45hz, but there is debate when it comes to 144hz vs 60hz because the results have a difference at which we cannot percieve easily without thorough investigation. I have no idea how much fps the eye can really see, but even assuming it's infinite, you are still not going to get much after a certain point.
The polling rate of the eye is pretty irrelevant. The eye-brain system is similar to the keyboard-osu system except your brain is like osu running at 60fps. If your keyboard is polling at 1000hz osu will receive ~17 updates per frame but it only really cares about whether the keystate changed in any of these updates and throws most of them out.abraker wrote:
I have no idea how much fps the eye can really see, but even assuming it's infinite, you are still not going to get much after a certain point
Similarly, the brain receives a whole bunch of polls from the eye and tries to do a dimensionality reduction on this data to extract the relevant features with which to do pattern recognition on. You can think of motion blur and fps as reducing into similar features. In the presence of motion blur you can essentially interpolate the missing frames and thus get richer features that make pattern recognition easier. Alternatively, if motion blur isn't present you need more frames to extract the same richness of features to recognize the same patterns. The thing is regardless of how many effective frames your brain has to work with, there are only so many potential features it can observe. Once you have sufficient effective frames you no longer get anything out of having more.
The 30 (60?) fps metric for what the human eye can perceive assumes a sufficient level of motion blur is present and in general holds true for real life footage.
Daily reminder that this reminder is not daily.jesse1412 wrote:
I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother.
E m i
BUT NEGLIGIBLE \geq 0 SO OBJECTIVELY BETTER!!!!it's not actually, they are indistinguishableMomiji wrote:
negligible benefit? yes.
No one is arguing that you can't percieve refresh rates over 30hz. That's total bullshit. it's p obvious and you can literally change ANYONE'S mind within 3 seconds of them looking at a 144hz monitor displaying 30 - 60 -120 - 144hz comparisons.
Whether the refresh rate makes osu! easier is a much more debatable topic.
Whether the refresh rate makes osu! easier is a much more debatable topic.
Did you play 60hz again yet?jesse1412 wrote:
No one is arguing that you can't percieve refresh rates over 30hz. That's total bullshit. it's p obvious and you can literally change ANYONE'S mind within 3 seconds of them looking at a 144hz monitor displaying 30 - 60 -120 - 144hz comparisons.
Whether the refresh rate makes osu! easier is a much more debatable topic.
Tbf I just gave it a quick test and 60 was UNBEARABLE. To be fair it did kinda play worse at 10.3. Didn't try higher AR though and definitely didn't test thoroughly. Maybe my transition to 144hz was just slower or something but fucking hell 60 looks like 30 used to. Bit annoying tbf because now I'll never want to play osu! on a < 144hz screen again.Khelly wrote:
Did you play 60hz again yet?jesse1412 wrote:
No one is arguing that you can't percieve refresh rates over 30hz. That's total bullshit. it's p obvious and you can literally change ANYONE'S mind within 3 seconds of them looking at a 144hz monitor displaying 30 - 60 -120 - 144hz comparisons.
Whether the refresh rate makes osu! easier is a much more debatable topic.
^ Based on like 5 minutes of rusted ice-cold sleepy gameplay but still pretty fuckin crazy after checking it out. I definitely didn't notice ANY advantage from going from 60 to 144 but I can feel the downgrade on the way back down like a brick wall.
exactly. high refresh rate monitor are kinda bad because going back to 60hz is total ass
Ok dadsayonara_sekai wrote:
exactly. 5* restaurants are kinda bad because going back to fast food is total ass
If you subsist on fast food a lot like I do then yes.Kisses wrote:
Ok dadsayonara_sekai wrote:
exactly. 5* restaurants are kinda bad because going back to fast food is total ass
Also why would you waste money on 5* restaurants
Fast food doesn't necessarily have to be junk food. I eat out all the time, but I get wholesome food not crap deep fried in highly processed vegetable oils with sugary drinks. It's not really that much more expensive.
Thats how people who dont have osu enjoy life, so I've heardKhelly wrote:
If you subsist on fast food a lot like I do then yes.
Also why would you waste money on 5* restaurants
Kisses wrote:
Thats how people who dont have osu enjoy life, so I've heardKhelly wrote:
If you subsist on fast food a lot like I do then yes.
Also why would you waste money on 5* restaurants
They dont know how to enjoy waifuism
Someone told me to try to fc 9.3+DT even though I never really play above ar 9 + DT. I gave it a try. It's still very possible on 60 hz.
Nobody said it's impossible. Also I don't think the effects between 60Hz vs 144Hz is strong enough for it to hinder your ability to do AR 9.3 on 60Hz.
I'm just adding to the pile