Do you think with newer and better monitors it's easier to read ar10?
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Does ar10 require good monitor and high FPS?
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Yes, but you can still read AR10 with 60hz.
requirepeople these days are a joke or something
in 2012 we used to read AR11 (10+DT) with no dim (because it didn't exist back then), with map backgrounds and storyboards/videos, on old 4:3 60Hz monitors
git gud. AR10 is 450ms, that's almost half a second, which is approximately like forever. even if your screen has 20 frames refresh rate that's like 9 frames you get to stare at the approach circle, which is far more than enough.
@Aqo pls teach ar10 ;w; even ar9.6 is a nightmare for filthy nomod farmer ;( jk, love you
I agree with this, better gear will not make you instantly better. WWW was making insane amazing plays with old client few years ago without good gaming gear. Practice and skill > gaming gear. Bikko is a godlike HR player and i doubt he use any 144hz monitor etc.
I agree with this, better gear will not make you instantly better. WWW was making insane amazing plays with old client few years ago without good gaming gear. Practice and skill > gaming gear. Bikko is a godlike HR player and i doubt he use any 144hz monitor etc.
literally unless your refresh rate is like 20Hz, running at 20 fps, it barely matters. it might feel smoother at higher fps and refresh rates, but your eyes physically can arguably not even detect 30 fps. in fact, 15fps can look very smooth to the eye under particular circumstances.
Playing with no dim and epilepsy storyboards HDHR is amusing. You get a bit of introspective into why a lot of pro player skins weren't fully transparent hit circles back in the day. It's funny that people spend so much time trying to find ways to get better at this game doing anything other than playing more when that time would be better spent playing more.Aqo wrote:
requirepeople these days are a joke or something
in 2012 we used to read AR11 (10+DT) with no dim (because it didn't exist back then), with map backgrounds and storyboards/videos, on old 4:3 60Hz monitors
git gud. AR10 is 450ms, that's almost half a second, which is approximately like forever. even if your screen has 20 frames refresh rate that's like 9 frames you get to stare at the approach circle, which is far more than enough.
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Kids these days just don't understand that struggling is an important part of the learning process. You'll never actually be good at anything if you expect everything to be spoonfed to you. In academics you can memorize and/or scribble down all the shortcuts on a cheat sheet and get good grades but if you never actually spent the time deriving those shortcuts by hand you haven't actually learned anything. This applies to basically all learning. "Shortcuts" don't help you learn, they are simply nice to have after you've put the time into actually learning something.
Will a mechanical keyboard magically let you stream like Gayzmcgee? No, but it sure is nice to have once you've spent the time learning to stream like he has. To be honest, he could probably stream similarly fast on a rubber dome keyboard. He might not be able to play as long before his stamina gave out in this case.
Another example, Hvick plays on a 60Hz monitor and he is indisputably the best (from a well rounded perspective) DT player in the world. He also has some of the highest AR11 OD11 accuracy out of all the people who can play it, he just chooses not to play it frequently. Would a 144Hz monitor suddenly turn Hvick into an AR11 god? Not at all. It would just be easier on his eyes from a strain perspective.
The only thing that actually matters for fps is the input delay and that is relative to OD, not AR. The OD window for 300's is ~40ms wide on OD9.6+ which means 240fps cuts off potentially 20% of your hit window (10% on either side) vs the 5% potential cutoff of 1000fps (which is getting to the point of being negligible). The amortized cut off is only half of that so honestly even 240fps is playable. You'd have to be running osu on a toaster or with vsync (which you can just turn off) to have issues with this.
Not exactly a toaster, but I have to use 240 fps limiter to be stable.Obviously it doesn't affect me in any way, especially not at this level, but I just found it interesting since I consider my computer to be pretty good to run osu!(E7300)
The other interesting thing is that when I put it on unlimited, my mouse goes crazy, can't even describe it properly, but like, the cursor kind of hops away.
I'm not really into these tech things, anyone know something about this?
Well i'm really happy that we have an option to put on a limiter.
The other interesting thing is that when I put it on unlimited, my mouse goes crazy, can't even describe it properly, but like, the cursor kind of hops away.
I'm not really into these tech things, anyone know something about this?
Well i'm really happy that we have an option to put on a limiter.
I FCed a 4.4* map with barely 30 fps
/thread
/thread
Computers in general require a good monitor, one with good colour and contrast balance. But you don't need a "gaming" turbo monitor.
But I disagree that 30 fps is "all you need", I can't see myself delivering top scores with such ridiculous latency it even makes my mouse movement weird. I need my 0.45ms and 60hz tyvm.
But I disagree that 30 fps is "all you need", I can't see myself delivering top scores with such ridiculous latency it even makes my mouse movement weird. I need my 0.45ms and 60hz tyvm.
It does help, but I wasn't a hard rock god before I got the 144hz monitor and guess what, I can BARELY pass hard rock'd songs now. Coinicidence? I think not. How much you play, learning what your weaknesses are, and playing enough to correct them ultimately decides how good you'll get and how fast. Any fancy peripherals may and I do repeat may help you get there. But, if you want to read ar10, if you want to stream 220bpm consistently, if you want to read joint struggle w/ ez mod - no monitor, keyboard, or obstacle will stand in your way, especially if you want it bad enough. \thread
Up to 10.5 is ok for me with 60hz 240fps.
past that I can't read because I don't practice nor want to nor find it relevant
past that I can't read because I don't practice nor want to nor find it relevant
Good hardware doesn't make a player good, but it will allow a good player to play more comfortably.
Also: the whole 30FPS thing is complete BS (unless you're talking about the minimum threshold that allows the eye to perceive movement as being "smooth", but that's another issue entirely). A trained human eye can consciously perceive images even as fast as 1/220 of a second (220Hz monitor #when), although the amount of difference it would make would likely be negligible.
Also: the whole 30FPS thing is complete BS (unless you're talking about the minimum threshold that allows the eye to perceive movement as being "smooth", but that's another issue entirely). A trained human eye can consciously perceive images even as fast as 1/220 of a second (220Hz monitor #when), although the amount of difference it would make would likely be negligible.
I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother. People seem to believe "smoother" is easier somehow.
So if it's a placebo then it has a real beneficial effect because they would play better believing to play better at 144hz than at 60hz?jesse1412 wrote:
I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother. People seem to believe "smoother" is easier somehow.
We can get into a debate about what the eye can see (l0l 30fps is all you n33d h4h4 stupid pc gamer wasting money on 144hz when their 3y3s cant s33 it h4h4). Skip the bullshit and tell me the perceived clarity of motion does not make it easier to react to a patterns at higher ar's? Perfect example, I was shit at reading triples at anything higher than ar9 pre144hz monitor. Post144hz monitor, I can magically react to it? If you were able to read higher ar's without 144hz than good for you, you were either genetically hardwired for osu or worked harder than most to learn higher ar's at 60hz.jesse1412 wrote:
I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother. People seem to believe "smoother" is easier somehow.
Now lets throw some hypotheticals, it is damn-near impossible for you to lose a skill like this (osu!) without severe brain trauma. But, if you did succumb to such trauma (god forbid) would you take the trip to mastering osu again with 60hz or 144hz? They exist for a reason, it is not just some big ass marketing scheme.
Companies like ASUS, BenQ, AOC, and Phillips are cashing in big time on placebo? Or (more likely) the perceived clarity of motion that higher refresh rates have to offer.
I would play osu again at 60hz because it means I can deal with any hz 60+ but if I started again with 144 it means it would be harder if I ever had to go back down
In spite of any financial hardships you may ever face in your life (once again, god forbid) what situation would cause you to not game at a higher refresh rate? Entertain my mind with a single one.Khelly wrote:
I would play osu again at 60hz because it means I can deal with any hz 60+ but if I started again with 144 it means it would be harder if I ever had to go back down
OK DADchainpullz wrote:
Kids these days just don't understand that struggling is an important part of the learning process
Not having any available 144hz monitor to use.Clappy wrote:
In spite of any financial hardships you may ever face in your life (once again, god forbid) what situation would cause you to not game at a higher refresh rate? Entertain my mind with a single one.Khelly wrote:
I would play osu again at 60hz because it means I can deal with any hz 60+ but if I started again with 144 it means it would be harder if I ever had to go back down
Not wanting to spend the money to acquire said 144hz because 60hz doesn't hinder my performance in the relevant AR's I play and I can spend the leftover money on onaholes and dakimakuras.
That's like saying, if I got use to playing with that ice cream cone, it could hinder my performance if I ever played without it. **Few moments later** Ice cream cone? Man I could spend my money to jack off with plastic, I dont need that shit.Khelly wrote:
Not having any available 144hz monitor to use.
Not wanting to spend the money to acquire said 144hz because 60hz doesn't hinder my performance in the relevant AR's I play and I can spend the leftover money on onaholes and dakimakuras.
Which means you will never have the ice cream (144hz) to get use to and hinder your performance if you develop a necessity for it in the first place. Want to throw another situation?
What are you trying to say when you use ice cream cone as an analogy? It doesn't make sense to me unless you're trying to say 144hz doesn't matter in which case might as well go for 60hz because it doesn't matter.
So I can have either minimal increase in percieved smoothness from switching to 144hz or the same thing I use now at 60hz which is perfectly acceptable for what I do. The opportunity cost of not being able to go back to 60hz from 144hz is too high for such little benefit. I can also spend the money on something else.
So I can have either minimal increase in percieved smoothness from switching to 144hz or the same thing I use now at 60hz which is perfectly acceptable for what I do. The opportunity cost of not being able to go back to 60hz from 144hz is too high for such little benefit. I can also spend the money on something else.
If it doesn't matter, then how do you foresee yourself developing a necessity for it? Man I really can't live without my appendix...Khelly wrote:
What are you trying to say when you use ice cream cone as an analogy? It doesn't make sense to me unless you're trying to say 144hz doesn't matter in which case might as well go for 60hz because it doesn't matter.
So I can have either minimal increase in percieved smoothness from switching to 144hz or the same thing I use now at 60hz which is perfectly acceptable for what I do. The opportunity cost of not being able to go back to 60hz from 144hz is too high. I can also spend the money on something else.
SPOILER
you can
And to comment on your "minimal" increase in perceived smoothness, take a look at this. http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Elec ... 1292115011
The 11th most sold monitor on amazon is the ASUS 144hz one, and thats out of the ENTIRE sample size of people that purchase monitors on Amazon.com, it's definitely a minimal increase if it can top charts out of the ENTIRE Amazon customer base.
The same way some people can only play ar10 and not lower ar's. Except in this case if I want to use a 144hz monitor I don't change down to lower hz's randomly as I play.Clappy wrote:
If it doesn't matter, then how do you foresee yourself developing a necessity for it? Man I really can't live without my appendix...SPOILERyou can
I'm not sure if this can be considered relevant, but I play by tracking my cursor visually, which worked fine on my old CRT (which I pushed to 150Hz for most of its osu! life). And I couldn't even dream of playing like this on a 60Hz (although that's because my muscle memory is complete shit). It's almost to the point where I feel as if I'm playing blind.
I made my 75Hz LCD my primary monitor for almost a week when my old CRT bit the dust, and that was enough for me to completely give up on playing until finding a new monitor to play on. At least I was lucky enough to quickly find a 144Hz-capable CRT that some guy was giving away for free.
I made my 75Hz LCD my primary monitor for almost a week when my old CRT bit the dust, and that was enough for me to completely give up on playing until finding a new monitor to play on. At least I was lucky enough to quickly find a 144Hz-capable CRT that some guy was giving away for free.
That's comparing apples to oranges. A high AR dependence stems from only playing higher ar's and for the most part you're right, they can't play maps because they lack the reading ability and the connotation with it is generally negative. A higher refresh rate dependence stems from your eye being trained to see increased motion clarity (connotation: positive). Which would suggest it would matter and until you've actually experienced it first hand, you really can't say it doesn't matter or not.Khelly wrote:
The same way some people can only play ar10 and not lower ar's. Except in this case if I want to use a 144hz monitor I don't change down to lower hz's randomly as I play.Clappy wrote:
If it doesn't matter, then how do you foresee yourself developing a necessity for it? Man I really can't live without my appendix...SPOILERyou can
I was saying I don't understand your ice cream cone example and it only makes sense to me if YOU'RE saying it doesn't matter.
I finished that example with a nice summary to show your flawed logic. You can't develop a dependency on something you will never have. A crackhead doesn't become a crackhead until they've tapped into those white rocks. If you know a way to become a crackhead without crack (which is what your situation implied) please tell me.Khelly wrote:
I was saying I don't understand your ice cream cone example and it only makes sense to me if YOU'RE saying it doesn't matter.
You can't develop a dependency on something you will never have - that's the exact reason why I wouldn't want to play 144hz until that becomes some kind of standard for most monitors.Clappy wrote:
I finished that example with a nice summary to show your flawed logic. You can't develop a dependency on something you will never have. A crackhead doesn't become a crackhead until they've tapped into those white rocks. If you know a way to become a crackhead without crack (which is what your situation implied) please tell me.Khelly wrote:
I was saying I don't understand your ice cream cone example and it only makes sense to me if YOU'RE saying it doesn't matter.
The way you're saying it is to imply that you should try something that will obviously lead to a dependency because they won't have that dependency unless they try.
Ok perfect, I'll take that. I'm leading you to the crack. But, you're afraid to try something that doesn't matter? Or does it matter. But, there are first hand, second hand, and third hand examples (forums, reviews, friends, people that actually have the product) that the disparity in motion clarity is not minimal. It is actually night and day, ergo it matters? Can you give me that? I do not lead people to crack that does not matter.Khelly wrote:
You can't develop a dependency on something you will never have - that's the exact reason why I wouldn't want to play 144hz until that becomes some kind of standard for most monitors.
The way you're saying it is to imply that you should try something that will obviously lead to a dependency because they won't have that dependency unless they try.
Can you re-read this for me when you try to argue against "my" statement of "it doesn't matter"Khelly wrote:
I was saying I don't understand your ice cream cone example and it only makes sense to me if YOU'RE saying it doesn't matter.
The underlying theme here, it does not matter. Closer to the beginning of our arguement.Khelly wrote:
Not wanting to spend the money to acquire said 144hz because 60hz doesn't hinder my performance in the relevant AR's I play and I can spend the leftover money on onaholes and dakimakuras.
The underlying theme here, it does not matter. Yet, saying that you will develop a need for 144hz because the motion clarity is too great to ever look back. Ergo it matters.Khelly wrote:
The same way some people can only play ar10 and not lower ar's. Except in this case if I want to use a 144hz monitor I don't change down to lower hz's randomly as I play.
Here is where you abandoned your original argument and began stating that I implied it doesn't matter because I used an "ice cream cone" analogy to a highly illogical statement you provided.Khelly wrote:
I was saying I don't understand your ice cream cone example and it only makes sense to me if YOU'RE saying it doesn't matter.
I'd rather start at 60hz than 144hz because 60hz is more readily available, playing 144hz will necessarily make playing 60hz a worse experience for me once I get used to it, I can already play what I need at 60hz making 144hz not a necessity, and the cost of 144hz monitor over 60hz outweighs the benefits.
Then you come up with some ice cream cone example that doesn't make sense to me unless you're trying to say 144hz and 60hz doesn't matter so just play 144hz. Then you're trying to pressure me or some shit like I said it doesn't matter when that's simply the way I interpreted your analogy.
Then you come up with some ice cream cone example that doesn't make sense to me unless you're trying to say 144hz and 60hz doesn't matter so just play 144hz. Then you're trying to pressure me or some shit like I said it doesn't matter when that's simply the way I interpreted your analogy.
stop rage
plz enjoy game
plz enjoy game
Here we go with the illogical statements againKhelly wrote:
I can already play what I need at 60hz making 144hz not a necessity
1) If you've never experienced your osu! performance without crack how can you say it's not a necessity.
2) There are cases (several, infact) against your statement that 144hz is not a necessity. Asus's VG248QE is the 11th most sold monitor out of ALL computer monitors. It is safe to assume only serious gamers are purchasing 144hz monitors right now, and we've pushed a 144hz monitor almost into the top 10 of computer monitor sales on Amazon, once again not a necessity, but you saying it does not matter and it will not help your performance is not a relevant statement and is highly illogical.
3) 60hz is more readily-available? 11th most sold monitor on amazon, a single 144hz monitor, not to mention there are many, many more? Highly illogical.
4) A standard 1080p monitor is approx $100 usd with respectable specs - 5ms response time or under. $150 dollars isn't worth for a glaring increase in motion clarity?
Not blowing smoke out my ass: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Elec ... 1292115011
The Asus monitor is 11th on the rankings, how are you saying this?
It's not a necessity if it's not necessary to use to play the game. I and many others are playing the game without it. It's not a necessity.
Even in the case of ar 10 and 10.3, it's NOT a necessity by any means.
It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one.
So you're using one monitor in one place in one store to say that 60 hz isn't more readily available? It'd make sense if I said 144hz isn't readily available, but not that 60hz is.
That $50 can go to an onahole and that's worth it more to me than marginal benefits I would get from 144hz. (Actually $150 can get me an autoblow2 since my current monitor isn't broken)
Even in the case of ar 10 and 10.3, it's NOT a necessity by any means.
It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one.
So you're using one monitor in one place in one store to say that 60 hz isn't more readily available? It'd make sense if I said 144hz isn't readily available, but not that 60hz is.
That $50 can go to an onahole and that's worth it more to me than marginal benefits I would get from 144hz. (Actually $150 can get me an autoblow2 since my current monitor isn't broken)
it does not
having those helps, how much it depends on how you play the game
biggest difference is cursor being less delayed and drawn more often for me, helps a ton
having those helps, how much it depends on how you play the game
biggest difference is cursor being less delayed and drawn more often for me, helps a ton
1) A Necessity it may not but it's certainly highly-recommended? Do you have a mechanical keyboard and tablet?Khelly wrote:
It's not a necessity if it's not necessary to use to play the game. I and many others are playing the game without it. It's not a necessity.
Even in the case of ar 10 and 10.3, it's NOT a necessity by any means.
It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one.
So you're using one monitor in one place in one store to say that 60 hz isn't more readily available? It'd make sense if I said 144hz isn't readily available, but not that 60hz is.
That $50 can go to an onahole and that's worth it more to me than marginal benefits I would get from 144hz. (Actually $150 can get me an autoblow2 since my current monitor isn't broken)
2) It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one. Do you have a mechanical keyboard and tablet? Speaking from what you think again
3) So you're using one monitor in one place in one store to say that 60 hz isn't more readily available? It'd make sense if I said 144hz isn't readily available, but not that 60hz is. I can't think of a single instance where 60hz is readily available to a point where it mattered. Most computer retailers sell 144hz monitors as well as 60hz: Walmart, Best Buy, even Gamestop.
4) That $150 can go to an onahole and that's worth it more to me than marginal benefits I would get from 144hz. Marginal? You're speaking from what you think and not what you know.
2) It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one. Do you have a mechanical keyboard and tablet?Comparing 144hz monitor to tablet+keyboard ----> looking at HDHR (player) or Wilchq or any other top20 who play on 60hz ----> facepalming
144hz monitor isn't such a big difference for playability until you play high complex ar10.3/ar11. You can normaly get into pro skill level top10 with 60hz without even spending a single cent on upgrading your monitor.
Also CRT > LED all the way.
Clappy wrote:
But, if you did succumb to such trauma (god forbid) would you take the trip to mastering osu again with 60hz or 144hz? They exist for a reason, it is not just some big ass marketing scheme.
Now here's the original question I was answering as an aside to jesus and thus any reasons other than what I think are irrelevant. If you gave me a choice, I would choose 60hz unless you could give me a lifetime supply of 144.
Take a sample of the top 100 player base on 60hz and compare to 144hz. If it does not matter ask your top players to play without 144hz. You're just blowing smoke. A 144hz monitor provides a much different visual signature than its 60hz counterpart and it is superhelpful. You're all saying its not necessity, by that same logic a tablet and keyboard isn't a necessity. Let's see a 60hz, walmart mouse-only player top 1000. There might be one, hell MAYBE two.[Taiga] wrote:
2) It will not help my performance to an amount that I feel is enough to justify ever going out and getting one. Do you have a mechanical keyboard and tablet?Comparing 144hz monitor to tablet+keyboard ----> looking at HDHR (player) or Wilchq or any other top20 who play on 60hz ----> facepalming
None of these things are necessities. But I can tell you that I can't play with a mouse anymore.
Also a tablet/mouse isn't like a monitor in that it's literally the way you PLAY the game as opposed to how you see what's happening in it.
The 144hz monitor is not a necessity over 60hz in playing ar10 or 10.3 judging from the many people that have gotten good enough fcs on 60hz.
Also a tablet/mouse isn't like a monitor in that it's literally the way you PLAY the game as opposed to how you see what's happening in it.
The 144hz monitor is not a necessity over 60hz in playing ar10 or 10.3 judging from the many people that have gotten good enough fcs on 60hz.
No, git gud. Play hard.
okStefan wrote:
No, git gud. Play hard.
Funny as hell that 7 of our top 10 players (pp wise) are using 144hz monitors.[Taiga] wrote:
You can normaly get into pro skill level top10 with 60hz
Take a sample of the top 100 player base on 60hz and compare to 144hz. If it does not matter ask your top players to play without 144hz. You're just blowing smoke. A 144hz monitor provides a much different visual signature than its 60hz counterpart and it is superhelpful. You're all saying its not necessity, by that same logic a tablet and keyboard isn't a necessity. Let's see a 60hz, walmart mouse-only player top 1000. There might be one, hell MAYBE two.Great amount of top100 players use 60hz.
WWW was making ar11 high acc FC on 60hz.
Wilchq reached top20 with rubberdome shitty keyboard, mouse and 60hz.
HDHR plays on both - mechanical and rubberdome depends on mood and 60hz.
Angelsim afaik uses 60hz.
_index made first 600pp score on 60hz (yes, he switched to 144 after this one when he finished crowdfounding for his treatment and new computer)
Bikko the HDHR acc god 60hz
How many more examples of notable amazing players you need to understand that 144hz isn't a big deal if you are skilled enough?
You keep saying it's not a necessity, but what you see in the game can be HUGE factor in how you play the game.Khelly wrote:
None of these things are necessities. But I can tell you that I can't play with a mouse anymore.
Also a tablet/mouse isn't like a monitor in that it's literally the way you PLAY the game as opposed to how you see what's happening in it.
The 144hz monitor is not a necessity over 60hz in playing ar10 or 10.3 judging from the many people that have gotten good enough fcs on 60hz.
But I see your point, there's tons of people that make the switch and say man this shit is garbage and return the monitor - wait there are none. Furthermore, you can't how you would perform on something you don't have. Hvick is a super outlier I'll give you that.
Where did you even get this from?Clappy wrote:
But I see your point, there's tons of people that make the switch and say man this shit is garbage and return the monitor - wait there are none.
I see 6% (2 of these have since switched - so 4% currently) out of 100, www switch, index switched, jesus switched, cookie switched, there's arguments on both sides, but with 144hz becoming more the norm with each passing day. Kind of hard pressed to make me see your case as it was, seeing that high refresh rates will be the way of many very soon.[Taiga] wrote:
Great amount of top100 players use 60hz.
WWW was making ar11 high acc FC on 60hz.
Wilchq reached top20 with rubberdome shitty keyboard, mouse and 60hz.
HDHR plays on both - mechanical and rubberdome depends on mood and 60hz.
Angelsim afaik uses 60hz.
_index made first 600pp score on 60hz (yes, he switched to 144 after this one when he finished crowdfounding for his treatment and new computer)
Bikko the HDHR acc god 60hz
How many more examples of notable amazing players you need to understand that 144hz isn't a big deal if you are skilled enough?
More of a common sense thing - the same way you keep saying you'd perform exactly the same on 144hz opposed to 60hz. However, I'm inclined to say that my suggestion makes a lot more sense seeing as people progress in skill with higher refresh rates, as opposed to returning their 144hz monitor.Khelly wrote:
Where did you even get this from?Clappy wrote:
But I see your point, there's tons of people that make the switch and say man this shit is garbage and return the monitor - wait there are none.
Actually I keep saying that 60hz is enough for my needs and that I have no need to switch to 144hz except to have 144hz because the benefits won't be as huge as you seem to claim.
I see 6% (2 of these have since switched - so 4% currently) out of 100, www switch, index switched, jesus switched, cookie switched, there's arguments on both sides, but with 144hz becoming more the norm with each passing day. Kind of hard pressed to make me see your case as it was, seeing that high refresh rates will be the way of many very soon.No it will not for one particular reason: money vs what it gives. 144hz is nothing in great amount of games, not mention you don't use 144 in office work at all. There are single titles what benefits from it and honestly, in every single one there will be people proving their superiority with 60hz over players with 144hz. Deal with this. 144 buying people who have money for this just for their experience. Normaly you don't need it at all to be a pro player and that i already proved.
AR11 don't require 144hz at all - WWW proved this, EP proved this, hvick proved this.
Khelly wrote:
I have no need to switch to 144hz except to have 144hz because the benefits won't be as huge as you seem to claim.
Khelly wrote:
Where did you even get this from?
So what does this have to do with returning the monitor because it's trash? It has to do with not switching in the first place. I even said I'd take it if you give me a lifetime supply of 144hz for free though.Clappy wrote:
Khelly wrote:
I have no need to switch to 144hz except to have 144hz because the benefits won't be as huge as you seem to claim.Khelly wrote:
Where did you even get this from?
It's like saying man, tablets aren't necessity when the vast majority of the osu! community uses them. You can be pro without yes, you have proved that, but what are the chances of you being hvick or www? Especially since our better players are switching them anyways? If they don't need them why fix what aint broke and get a 144hz anyways?[Taiga] wrote:
No it will not for one particular reason: money vs what it gives. 144hz is nothing in great amount of games, not mention you don't use 144 in office work at all. There are single titles what benefits from it and honestly, in every single one there will be people proving their superiority with 60hz over players with 144hz. Deal with this. 144 buying people who have money for this just for their experience. Normaly you don't need it at all to be a pro player and that i already proved.
AR11 don't require 144hz at all - WWW proved this, EP proved this, hvick proved this.
In League of Legends LCS, the monitors they use are the Asus VG248QE.
In CS they use 144hz monitor or some variant + interpoling that gives 240hz.
Do you play osu in an office?
Higher refresh monitors, in a gaming enviroment, are always a plus and you're only gimping yourself and what you may achieve without them. You're not pro on 60hz but damn hvick and EP are. 2 out of many fish in the sea?
I'm damn sure a crackhead would be ecstatic at a free lifetime supply of crack too, but the point is you're saying you don't need it to be pro, when the evidence suggests otherwise. There are VERY few cases for your arguments and PLENTY for mine.Khelly wrote:
So what does this have to do with returning the monitor because it's trash? It has to do with not switching in the first place. I even said I'd take it if you give me a lifetime supply of 144hz for free though.
EDIT: You're saying you want a product for free that supposedly better than an inferior product. Who wouldn't take that. Even warranties on 144hz monitors are better so your money is certainly backed better by companies etc. If cost over time is a concern, you can bet dollars-to-donuts that you're getting more for your buck in 144hz anyways.
y do ppl spended hours in heated debate of monitors
y not enjoy game
y not enjoy game
Kisses wrote:
y do ppl spended hours in heated debate of monitors
y not enjoy game
It's like saying man, tablets aren't necessity when the vast majority of the osu! community uses them.One more time - comparing pointing devices to display device - faceplam.
You can be pro without yes, you have proved that, but what are the chances of you being hvick or www? Especially since our better players are switching them anyways? If they don't need them why fix what aint broke and get a 144hz anyways?Upgrading hardware normally thinks getting better performance. Why you don't say that over 80% or even 90% of this people upgraded FULL HARDWARE including PC? Oh wait, so for now getting PC from NASA also boost your performance in Osu? If i had money to upgrade my case, i would also take 144hz because why not? Here how it works. Simple.
In League of Legends LCS, the monitors they use are the Asus VG248QE.Same as in every big tournament hosted by companies with huge wealth - they give players top tier hardware. It proves nothing here. It's actually "armaments race" between Valve / Riot / WarGaming who host more luxory and most geared tournament.
In CS they use 144hz monitor or some variant + interpoling that gives 240hz.
Do you play osu in an office?My workspace doesn't care what i do when i am in office as far as my job is constantly done before time so yes, it happens.
Higher refresh monitors, in a gaming enviroment, are always a plus and you're only gimping yourself and what you may achieve without them. You're not pro on 60hz but damn hvick and EP are. 2 out of many fish in the sea?I never said anything about myself, where you took this?
Yes, hvick and EP are pro.
Just don't get me into spending couple of hours into checking / asking each player about his screen and gathering information HOW MANY (you could be very supprised) in top100 uses 60hz and don't even care to switch into 144. As i said, you could be supprised.
y do ppl spended hours in heated debate of monitorsThis is forum, it's a place to make this kind of discussions and exchange opinions and POV. Top kek lol.
y not enjoy game
1) How is a pointing device, in this case a device that gives you absolute tracking opposed to positional tracking any different from a monitor that gives a little more than two frames for its counterpart which gives one. They are both superfluous, luxury items that give you an advantage in game, since one has a little better track record in osu! (the tablet) people for the most part say, yeah tablet is sort of the way to go because it gives you an advantage because of one major issue - mouse drift. Who's to say visual frames (notorious for ghosting) are any different? Yes, you have your outliers, same with mouse, but the a bigger majority say 144hz is better and a tablet is not cheap by any means, 80 bucks for a device that is propriety to osu? I only say propriety, because the better portion of us aren't are graphic designers.
2) I've already stated that you're paying a premium for a premium product, which gives you a premium edge. Whether or not it is noticeable enough to warrant cost is up to the consumer, you're saying it's not when you can't say from first hand experience. You're saying people in the past have done great with 60, but the same people that have broken "the DiVinci Code" of osu are still switching to 144hz monitors.
3) Same as 2.
4) Besides the point
5) Tell me someone that gets a 144hz monitor then says its not worth their investment then returns it, if any, they are little because it's not a necessity, but you're getting what you pay for. That's with anything in life.
PS: Next thing you know, shit fingers are no longer necessary to go pro guys you can stub your way to the top just like this guy did in counter-strike. Just enjoy gaem and play m0re l0l.
2) I've already stated that you're paying a premium for a premium product, which gives you a premium edge. Whether or not it is noticeable enough to warrant cost is up to the consumer, you're saying it's not when you can't say from first hand experience. You're saying people in the past have done great with 60, but the same people that have broken "the DiVinci Code" of osu are still switching to 144hz monitors.
3) Same as 2.
4) Besides the point
5) Tell me someone that gets a 144hz monitor then says its not worth their investment then returns it, if any, they are little because it's not a necessity, but you're getting what you pay for. That's with anything in life.
PS: Next thing you know, shit fingers are no longer necessary to go pro guys you can stub your way to the top just like this guy did in counter-strike. Just enjoy gaem and play m0re l0l.
5) Tell me someone that gets a 144hz monitor then says its not worth their investment then returns it, if any, they are little because it's not a necessity, but you're getting what you pay for. That's with anything in life.God damn, it's not a point here, obviously you don't return a luxury item.
The main point is - you DO NOT NEED IT to be best of the best.
You DO NOT NEED 144hz monitor to make scores like Cookiezi, Rafis or hvick.
It's a luxury item which works more like helping items from item shops in MMO - you buy it = some aspects of the game may be easier at CERTAIN POINT.
It's an addition which makes SINGLE PARTS of gameplay easier but NOT ALL - main component is still the same - your skill level which means - reading ability, complexity pattern control, speed and stamina. If you don't have this once - even over9000hz monitor + 0 input lag tablet + optical 0 input lag of your choice switch mech keyboard will not help you.
Unless you're a grill who just got handed a 144hz monitor by some dumbass donator on stream you're more than likely to have some experience with the game to indulge in tablets, keyboard, 144hz monitor, whatever luxury item you may have. But believe me when I tell you, the monitor makes reading easier... If don't believe it, I'll just indulge in my 250 Dollar placebo. While you're waiting around for a free stack of 144hz monitors for the rest of your life.[Taiga] wrote:
some aspects of the game may be easier at CERTAIN POINT
Car Salesman: "[Taiga]! Sir did you pay for half a car? Let me get you the whole car because you expect it."
Like what the flying dogfuck world do you live in to even say yeah, I'll take a free stack of 144hz Monitors. Wouldn't expect free 60hz monitors, why 144hz?
But believe me when I tell you, the monitor makes reading easier... If don't believe it, I'll just indulge in my 250 Dollar placebo. While you're waiting around for a free stack of 144hz monitors for the rest of your life.Believe me or not, practicing complex patterns makes my reading better. If i will want 144 monitor, i will buy it, i just don't feel like buying something what will be complete waste of money. By my ideology as adult guy - if you can save up money because you still can get something with enough practice - do it. I prefer save up and buy better car / fund good international trip for parents than spend for some useless item which... let's be honest can be easily replaced by better skillcap.
Car Salesman: "[Taiga]! Sir did you pay for half a car? Let me get you the whole car because you expect it."That is plain stupid *facepalm*
Sry dude, i am not used to spend money for something that can be replaced by workout. If 144hz could give advantage that nothing else can replace it, then it is the point to consider. So far it just makes certain parts of game easier but not unable to play for 60hz user.
here's your reply
144 > 60 > 40 > 20 > 8 > 2 > 0.5hz monitor
does dis make sense or do I have this backwards?
does dis make sense or do I have this backwards?
Is this seriously?
are people seriously saying that high hz monitors arent objectively better for gaming than 60hz ITT? glad to see things never change around here
go ask invite level CS players if it makes a difference
go ask invite level CS players if it makes a difference
Daily reminder that this reminder is not daily.jesse1412 wrote:
144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother.
Answering main question : I play with an old cheapo laptop with 100+ FPS ( 200 at best ) and can read AR10 just fine
Mmkay, I don't know why everyone's getting all butthurt over the monitors they use, but I'll just throw this in here:
1. Yes, 144Hz monitors are objectively better than 60Hz monitors.
2. No, you don't need a 144Hz monitor to read AR10.
3. The "advantage" is a lot bigger when playing FPSes and other games that have fast movement spanning across the entire screen. In osu!, this isn't really the case, so your mileage may vary.
Seriously though, take a step outside, or go take a nap, or something. Relax. It's not like your life depends on what type of monitor other people use.
1. Yes, 144Hz monitors are objectively better than 60Hz monitors.
2. No, you don't need a 144Hz monitor to read AR10.
3. The "advantage" is a lot bigger when playing FPSes and other games that have fast movement spanning across the entire screen. In osu!, this isn't really the case, so your mileage may vary.
Seriously though, take a step outside, or go take a nap, or something. Relax. It's not like your life depends on what type of monitor other people use.
You can definitely notice higher than 60 and it looks smoother but it really doesn't help.Clappy wrote:
We can get into a debate about what the eye can see (l0l 30fps is all you n33d h4h4 stupid pc gamer wasting money on 144hz when their 3y3s cant s33 it h4h4). Skip the bullshit and tell me the perceived clarity of motion does not make it easier to react to a patterns at higher ar's? Perfect example, I was shit at reading triples at anything higher than ar9 pre144hz monitor. Post144hz monitor, I can magically react to it? If you were able to read higher ar's without 144hz than good for you, you were either genetically hardwired for osu or worked harder than most to learn higher ar's at 60hz.jesse1412 wrote:
I got a 144hz, it's placebo with the added effect of looking a bit smoother. People seem to believe "smoother" is easier somehow.
Now lets throw some hypotheticals, it is damn-near impossible for you to lose a skill like this (osu!) without severe brain trauma. But, if you did succumb to such trauma (god forbid) would you take the trip to mastering osu again with 60hz or 144hz? They exist for a reason, it is not just some big ass marketing scheme.
Companies like ASUS, BenQ, AOC, and Phillips are cashing in big time on placebo? Or (more likely) the perceived clarity of motion that higher refresh rates have to offer.
Clappy wrote:
Take a sample of the top 100 player base on 60hz and compare to 144hz. If it does not matter ask your top players to play without 144hz. You're just blowing smoke. A 144hz monitor provides a much different visual signature than its 60hz counterpart and it is superhelpful. You're all saying its not necessity, by that same logic a tablet and keyboard isn't a necessity. Let's see a 60hz, walmart mouse-only player top 1000. There might be one, hell MAYBE two.
IIRC doomsday was upset when his £5 shitmouse that was 10 years old died.
Cmon we both know if those 7 changed to 60hz tomorrow they'd still do just as well.Clappy wrote:
Funny as hell that 7 of our top 10 players (pp wise) are using 144hz monitors.[Taiga] wrote:
You can normaly get into pro skill level top10 with 60hz
Obviously 144hz > 60hz but it's really not an "advantage", it just looks a little smoother. Anything you can do on 144 you can do on 60. It's definitely a luxary to have a 144hz but I personally will not be buying another one after my current one dies.
I might try dropping back to 60 for a session and reporting back on if it really feels worse.
get 5 tablets, 7 mechs and 3 144hz monitors and be insta cookiezi!
Motion blur plays a huge role on the human perception of smoothness. For video with life like motion blur (ie. real life footage) the human eye has difficulties discerning differences above 30 (60?) fps. Shooting games rely on cgi which is notorious for having unrealistic motion blur. Osu has a low degree of motion in comparison. The only reason I know when my gsync is on is the in game cursor lag.
If I was to base skill points on just the ability to react to a something on a screen by pressing a button (like a typical measure your reaction game), these would be the skill requirement values:
.............AR 10................AR 10.3............AR 11
.60 Hz...289.401..............370.546.............754.161
144 Hz..275.282..............350.456.............698.931
As you can see, there is barely any difference between skill requirement for 60 Hz and for 144 Hz on AR 10. The skill requirement difference between the refresh rates for AR 11, however, is comparable to the difference between AR 10 and AR 10.3. Just as a reminder, you can achieve these skill requirements with enough practice anyway, granted a player would achieve the same skill requirement faster with a 144 Hz.
So no, AR 10 DOES NOT require a good monitor and high FPS. Just play more.
.............AR 10................AR 10.3............AR 11
.60 Hz...289.401..............370.546.............754.161
144 Hz..275.282..............350.456.............698.931
As you can see, there is barely any difference between skill requirement for 60 Hz and for 144 Hz on AR 10. The skill requirement difference between the refresh rates for AR 11, however, is comparable to the difference between AR 10 and AR 10.3. Just as a reminder, you can achieve these skill requirements with enough practice anyway, granted a player would achieve the same skill requirement faster with a 144 Hz.
So no, AR 10 DOES NOT require a good monitor and high FPS. Just play more.
But that means id be able to play ar11 on 144hz 
Brb buying new monitor
Brb buying new monitor
Plz enjoi gamu ?!
What units are these numbers in?abraker wrote:
If I was to base skill points on just the ability to react to a something on a screen by pressing a button (like a typical measure your reaction game), these would be the skill requirement values:
.............AR 10................AR 10.3............AR 11
.60 Hz...289.401..............370.546.............754.161
144 Hz..275.282..............350.456.............698.931
As you can see, there is barely any difference between skill requirement for 60 Hz and for 144 Hz on AR 10. The skill requirement difference between the refresh rates for AR 11, however, is comparable to the difference between AR 10 and AR 10.3. Just as a reminder, you can achieve these skill requirements with enough practice anyway, granted a player would achieve the same skill requirement faster with a 144 Hz.
So no, AR 10 DOES NOT require a good monitor and high FPS. Just play more.
Danks per minute.
A skill requirement of 1000 is based on the median reaction time and a skill requirement of 500 is based on the average reaction time of the lower half of the userbase. Data has been modeled according to the statistics found here (data was modified to match the trend for <140ms and other discrepancies).Khelly wrote:
What units are these numbers in?
So a skill requirement of 1000 equates to 240 ms and a skill requirement of 500 equates to 350 ms. The modeled function is a/(x^b).
This actually convince me to get a 144Hz CRT. After I get my gaming USB fan first that is more important.
I like how at 60 hz it's still well below the median reaction time at ar 10.3abraker wrote:
A skill requirement of 1000 is based on the median reaction time and a skill requirement of 500 is based on the average reaction time of the lower half of the userbase. Data has been modeled according to the statistics found here (data was modified to match the trend for <140ms and other discrepancies).Khelly wrote:
What units are these numbers in?
So a skill requirement of 1000 equates to 240 ms and a skill requirement of 500 equates to 350 ms. The modeled function is a/(x^b).
Please note this is based on a "measure your reaction" kind of game. There is some overhead with eye movement and cursor movement, so don't be surprised that 10.3 is below the median without those.
Also, to all those going about how human eye can only see up to 30 fps: http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
yeah high refresh rate being a placebo is such bullshit. If you put the second sphere at 120hz its a bit ahead of the 60hz one and looks much smoother. I used to get killed by peeking players in CS before I even saw them with a 60hz monitor and that stopped the moment I got my new oneNovalogic wrote:
Also, to all those going about how human eye can only see up to 30 fps: http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
how beneficial its really for osu I cant say. probably makes a difference at ARs above 10. The game looks much much smoother at least
Nope it's not required.A bad pc and periphery can be a problem, but average pc/periphery is enough(at least up to AR10,going to AR11 probably start to matter a little if you use 144hz monitor,but even then just a little and still not required).Anything above average is just for feeling nicer.The placebo effect can be explained by:
Great periphery is not equal to insta better skill.
but great periphery = nicer feeling while playing = more fun = playing more = gradualy getting better xD
Great periphery is not equal to insta better skill.
but great periphery = nicer feeling while playing = more fun = playing more = gradualy getting better xD