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The Offspring - You're Gonna Go Far, Kid

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Topic Starter
synf
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on 27. února 2017 at 19:24:08

Artist: The Offspring
Title: You're Gonna Go Far, Kid
Source: Novelty
BPM: 126,13
Filesize: 3264kb
Play Time: 03:12
Difficulties Available:
  1. Far (3,36 stars, 473 notes)
  2. Near (1,71 stars, 238 notes)
Download: The Offspring - You're Gonna Go Far, Kid
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
This is my first beatmap.
This map is considered to be 18+, because of lyrics of this song. I don't recommend playing it if you are younger!
Near diff is before remapping process, currently on to do list.
Far diff is during remapping process, currently remapped till 00:55:843
Have fun, if you decide to mod, please mod only remapped parts, thanks!
PainDesu
Seijiro

General
  • The timing seems off. I tried fixing it myself, but it looks like rock genre ius a pain to deal with as always, so there is like a micro BPm change here and there

    Your BG's resolution isn't one of the recommended ones, you should try to find one fitting these resolutions: 1366x768 1024x768 1280x720 or any other 16:9 or 4:3 resolution

    "NO WAY - I AM CREATING A MAP (kolgar)" and "NO WAY - I (kolgar)" are unused files into your beatmap's folder: remove them

Near
  • Unfortunately, I can't say much here, since this map isn't following the general ranking criteria for this difficulty:
  1. you should use a constant Distance Snap, since new players aren't fully able to handle jumps of any sort
  2. you shouldn't use any sort of overlap because it's too confusing at this level (examples: 00:22:545 (2,3,4,5) - 00:20:642 (5,1) - and such)
  3. the note density is too high. Seeing this is a Normal diff you should use a lot of 1/1 notes and some seldom 1/2 notes. As it is now the note density is way too high, so try to remove objects/notes where you can
  4. do not stack any sort of object in general (example: 00:56:810 (2,3) - )
  5. you New Combos are a bit over the place: as a general guideline, you should place a New Combo every 4 beats (also make sure the NC falls on a white tick, not a red one)
  6. your breaks seem also a bit random, because there is no particular beat telling me "hey, things are gonna change from here onward" or such. Imo you should map those breaks.
Some random things that are really exaggerated:
  1. 00:33:729 (5,6) - jump way too big (remember to use a constant DS)
  2. 00:30:635 - 00:40:628 - all this section is a constant chain of 1/2 notes: you should put a break of 1/1 once every 2 beats as a guideline
  3. 00:40:628 - 00:41:580 - I find this break a bit awkward if compared to the rest of the map (there are mappable beats, yet you don't use them, which is pretty random imo)
  4. 01:32:976 - 01:49:156 - this other part feels empty due to those long repeat sliders. You should place some 1/1 and 1/2 notes
  5. 03:12:199 - the beatmap should end here tho, where there is a strong beat and also a cool outro

Imo you should take some ranked maps (Normal diffs) and study them, searching for those things I pointed out in the first half of this mod.
As it is now, I unfortunately have to say that it is no good :/

Far
  • Here too, I can't really help much if not in general:
  1. 00:25:400 (1,2) - Try to avoid short spacings like these, since they leave too much room and the player has to wait for the next beats. If you want a shorter spacing make sure to create a meaning behind it
  2. 00:40:628 (4,5,6) - Why do they have different spacings here for example? .-.
  3. 00:48:243 (1,1,1,1,2) - These combos are pretty random imo. Try to comprehend more objects where you see the rhythm is a bit less dense
  4. 00:58:712 (1,2) - one of those strange spacings where the player has to wait idle in the middle of the field. I would have stacked them
  5. 01:32:976 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - Really colorful, but not necessary :/
  6. 02:31:748 (2,1,1,1,1,1,1) - uh, same ^
  7. 02:36:983 (2,3) - Awful spacing here, way too short
  8. 02:49:475 (2) - Avoid starting sliders (above all repeat sliders) on blue ticks please, since there isn't enough emphasis to warrant the pressure on the object
This diff too needs more order and meaning behind the patterns, since it looks a bit random from the outside.
Here too, pick some ranked maps and try to study how the mappers did their patterns and why

I'll also leave you with a good thread as reference for anything beatmap related: t/60228
Have fun mapping~
Yuii-
That font size is a pain to read.
Nice April Fools joke, Sergy
Sotarks

kolgar wrote:

This is my first beatmap, which in my opinion has enough of ambition to be ranked.
By saying this you'll be more frustrated by the fact you'll not be able to rank it because it's your first beatmap, no offense but, try to focus on "How I can improve my mapping?" instead of "My map is good enough to be rankable?" since it's your first one.

I was really frustrated also when I did my first beatmap, thats why I can tell you that.

Overall, good luck !
And welcome to mappers' world
Topic Starter
synf

Sotarks wrote:

kolgar wrote:

This is my first beatmap, which in my opinion has enough of ambition to be ranked.
By saying this you'll be more frustrated by the fact you'll not be able to rank it because it's your first beatmap, no offense but, try to focus on "How I can improve my mapping?" instead of "My map is good enough to be rankable?" since it's your first one.

I was really frustrated also when I did my first beatmap, thats why I can tell you that.

Overall, good luck !
And welcome to mappers' world
Well, I expected this to suck... But thanks.
I know that I am not well experienced mapper, and what I wrote might have been a mistake, but my problem is that I am sometimes too honest, like in this example.
Topic Starter
synf

MrSergio wrote:

General
  • The timing seems off. I tried fixing it myself, but it looks like rock genre ius a pain to deal with as always, so there is like a micro BPm change here and there

    Your BG's resolution isn't one of the recommended ones, you should try to find one fitting these resolutions: 1366x768 1024x768 1280x720 or any other 16:9 or 4:3 resolution

    "NO WAY - I AM CREATING A MAP (kolgar)" and "NO WAY - I (kolgar)" are unused files into your beatmap's folder: remove them

Near
  • Unfortunately, I can't say much here, since this map isn't following the general ranking criteria for this difficulty:
  1. you should use a constant Distance Snap, since new players aren't fully able to handle jumps of any sort
  2. you shouldn't use any sort of overlap because it's too confusing at this level (examples: 00:22:545 (2,3,4,5) - 00:20:642 (5,1) - and such)
  3. the note density is too high. Seeing this is a Normal diff you should use a lot of 1/1 notes and some seldom 1/2 notes. As it is now the note density is way too high, so try to remove objects/notes where you can
  4. do not stack any sort of object in general (example: 00:56:810 (2,3) - )
  5. you New Combos are a bit over the place: as a general guideline, you should place a New Combo every 4 beats (also make sure the NC falls on a white tick, not a red one)
  6. your breaks seem also a bit random, because there is no particular beat telling me "hey, things are gonna change from here onward" or such. Imo you should map those breaks.
Some random things that are really exaggerated:
  1. 00:33:729 (5,6) - jump way too big (remember to use a constant DS)
  2. 00:30:635 - 00:40:628 - all this section is a constant chain of 1/2 notes: you should put a break of 1/1 once every 2 beats as a guideline
  3. 00:40:628 - 00:41:580 - I find this break a bit awkward if compared to the rest of the map (there are mappable beats, yet you don't use them, which is pretty random imo)
  4. 01:32:976 - 01:49:156 - this other part feels empty due to those long repeat sliders. You should place some 1/1 and 1/2 notes
  5. 03:12:199 - the beatmap should end here tho, where there is a strong beat and also a cool outro

Imo you should take some ranked maps (Normal diffs) and study them, searching for those things I pointed out in the first half of this mod.
As it is now, I unfortunately have to say that it is no good :/

Far
  • Here too, I can't really help much if not in general:
  1. 00:25:400 (1,2) - Try to avoid short spacings like these, since they leave too much room and the player has to wait for the next beats. If you want a shorter spacing make sure to create a meaning behind it
  2. 00:40:628 (4,5,6) - Why do they have different spacings here for example? .-.
  3. 00:48:243 (1,1,1,1,2) - These combos are pretty random imo. Try to comprehend more objects where you see the rhythm is a bit less dense
  4. 00:58:712 (1,2) - one of those strange spacings where the player has to wait idle in the middle of the field. I would have stacked them
  5. 01:32:976 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - Really colorful, but not necessary :/
  6. 02:31:748 (2,1,1,1,1,1,1) - uh, same ^
  7. 02:36:983 (2,3) - Awful spacing here, way too short
  8. 02:49:475 (2) - Avoid starting sliders (above all repeat sliders) on blue ticks please, since there isn't enough emphasis to warrant the pressure on the object
This diff too needs more order and meaning behind the patterns, since it looks a bit random from the outside.
Here too, pick some ranked maps and try to study how the mappers did their patterns and why

I'll also leave you with a good thread as reference for anything beatmap related: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/60228
Have fun mapping~
Thank you for your mod!
I changed the timing (I hope now it is how it should be).
Took a fair amount of work but I did what you said, now it should be better.
Also, removed the files ^^.
Chiyuyu
hi, m4m

[General]

Well ... There is definitely a problem with the BPM.
And need hitsound.

[Near]

01:19:175 (2) - poor flow. Normal is the same, for beginners to play this will be difficult


[Far]

Many overmaping. (triple bunch, who do not go to the music)
00:56:095 (1,2,3) - this is particularly
00:41:580 (1) - I think that the spinner is not needed
01:36:307 (1) - ^
02:54:977 (1) - ^
03:04:256 (1) - ^
01:05:612 (3) - x380 y248
01:06:326 - some like this http://puu.sh/o4PTW/4d28c30772.jpg
02:24:285 - here it is generally terrible timing

In general, I can not write something for this, because I think you need a lot more work to view the map. Good luck.
Topic Starter
synf

Chiyuyu wrote:

hi, m4m

[General]

Well ... There is definitely a problem with the BPM. I am sorry, but where exactly is the problém. I have played this song for too many times to find out myself :<
And need hitsound. Thanks, gonna work on that.

[Near]

01:19:175 (2) - poor flow. Normal is the same, for beginners to play this will be difficult Fixed, ty.


[Far]

Many overmaping. (triple bunch, who do not go to the music)
00:56:095 (1,2,3) - this is particularly I think it fits there perfectly!
00:41:580 (1) - I think that the spinner is not needed I think that the spinner is a good pause for the player instead of a break.
01:36:307 (1) - ^ Same as previous.
02:54:977 (1) - ^ Changed, ty.
03:04:256 (1) - ^ Changed, ty.
01:05:612 (3) - x380 y248 Moved to x392 y276 (Better location than before, but better than yours, too imo)
01:06:326 - some like this http://puu.sh/o4PTW/4d28c30772.jpg Ty, did this exact pattern.
02:24:285 - here it is generally terrible timing Thank you for pointing out the exact time, hope i fixed it finally.

In general, I can not write something for this, because I think you need a lot more work to view the map. Good luck.
Thank you for your mod, helped me a lot.
I hope I fixed the most general problem, which was the timing :). Took me a lot of effort.
Namki
Hello.
Try those points.
[TimingPoints]
18698,476.190476190476,4,1,0,60,1,0
129174,472.44094488189,4,1,0,60,1,0
144292,476.18935258648,4,1,0,60,1,0
159530,475.511174512601,4,1,0,60,1,0
Topic Starter
synf

Namki wrote:

Hello.
Try those points.
[TimingPoints]
18698,476.190476190476,4,1,0,60,1,0
129174,472.44094488189,4,1,0,60,1,0
144292,476.18935258648,4,1,0,60,1,0
159530,475.511174512601,4,1,0,60,1,0
Wow, thanks a lot, I think this is the final fix of the timing, although sometimes (might be my personal offset) I think it has random misstimed places throughout the map. Why did I choose this song :/.
Alvieee
Timing is really bad... use this timing points:

[TimingPoints]
18766,475.710989716714,4,1,0,60,1,0
112040,475.700989716714,4,1,0,60,1,0
129126,475.690989716714,4,1,0,60,1,0
159550,475.225171102662,4,1,0,60,1,0
Topic Starter
synf

Anivex wrote:

Timing is really bad... use this timing points:

[TimingPoints]
18766,475.710989716714,4,1,0,60,1,0
112040,475.700989716714,4,1,0,60,1,0
129140,475.700989716714,4,1,0,60,1,0
159550,475.225171102662,4,1,0,60,1,0
Well, thank you for your fix, I think this beatmap is doomed, whilst I hear the timing is perfect in the [Near] diff, but not in the [Far] diff. But still, thank you
Log Off Now
M4M

[General]

Looks fine

[Near]

02:39:570 (1) - Object isn't snapped

Ok so i'm only gonna give general comments here since I honestly don't think this is ready for ranking at all. First off, your NC's still aren't that great, I can see you have them every four notes (usually) at least but this still isn't ideal. Usually you want to NC on the downbeats (big white ticks) as those are often the ones most emphasised and also indicate the next phrase or bar of the music.

Secondly your flows here are really sharp which is fine, but for lower difficulties generally you want an easier flow which is less sharp and less misleading to follow since newer players will be able to follow them greater, for example here 01:17:754 (1,2) - the flow is extremely sharp (at least for a normal difficulty). The slider would make you think that the flow is going to continue going to the left, but you move the note down beneath the slider which can be confusing and jarring in lower difficulties such as these. (Whilst i'm at this section of the music 01:19:181 (2,3,4) - the 4 underneath the 2 could be really confusing since at this AR it looks like it could be clicked twice.

The same occurs here 01:31:074 (1,2,3) - the way that the end of (1) is angled would make you think the flow is moving upwards when it's actually the opposite. Let me just say that sometimes it's fine to have flows like this, although you need to think carefully about what you try and emphasize with these flows and make sure that they fit the music, which often times in this difficulty it doesn't imo.

[Far]

Some comments from the above section also apply here (NC's mainly) but theres another point I would like to bring up here. Try to build up some consistency in the parts of the music you're mapping, for example at the start of this difficulty you're mapping the drums, but suddenly you switch to mapping for vocals very briefly at 00:21:144 (2) - and it just doesn't really make much sense as to why you did this. It's ok to be a little bit repetitive as it builds up a structure. The way that the patterns look and play doesn't always have to be the same, but the parts that you map should be. Make sure their is some variety to the parts of the music you're mapping though since following one instrument for a whole song would be boring, so remember to switch what you're following if you think it's appropriate

Also i have one specific thing I would like you try, here at 00:21:144 (2,3,4,5,1) - I would try doing something like this


Doing this adds a bit of variety in your flow whilst also keeping it simple and easy to follow (this is just a simple cross pattern, simple shapes such as triangles, lines, crosses often give good flow in higher difficulties, maybe incorporate more into your map?)

[]

I hope this helps you in your mapping :)
Topic Starter
synf

Log Off Now wrote:

M4M

[General]

Looks fine

[Near]

02:39:570 (1) - Object isn't snapped Oops. Thanks, fixed.

Ok so i'm only gonna give general comments here since I honestly don't think this is ready for ranking at all. First off, your NC's still aren't that great, I can see you have them every four notes (usually) at least but this still isn't ideal. Usually you want to NC on the downbeats (big white ticks) as those are often the ones most emphasised and also indicate the next phrase or bar of the music. OK, changed some, trying to fit in your advice.

Secondly your flows here are really sharp which is fine, but for lower difficulties generally you want an easier flow which is less sharp and less misleading to follow since newer players will be able to follow them greater, for example here 01:17:754 (1,2) - the flow is extremely sharp (at least for a normal difficulty). The slider would make you think that the flow is going to continue going to the left, but you move the note down beneath the slider which can be confusing and jarring in lower difficulties such as these. (Whilst i'm at this section of the music 01:19:181 (2,3,4) - the 4 underneath the 2 could be really confusing since at this AR it looks like it could be clicked twice. Thanks, well, changed a bit.

The same occurs here 01:31:074 (1,2,3) - the way that the end of (1) is angled would make you think the flow is moving upwards when it's actually the opposite. Let me just say that sometimes it's fine to have flows like this, although you need to think carefully about what you try and emphasize with these flows and make sure that they fit the music, which often times in this difficulty it doesn't imo. I think other way, but followed a bit.

[Far]

Some comments from the above section also apply here (NC's mainly) but theres another point I would like to bring up here. Try to build up some consistency in the parts of the music you're mapping, for example at the start of this difficulty you're mapping the drums, but suddenly you switch to mapping for vocals very briefly at 00:21:144 (2) - and it just doesn't really make much sense as to why you did this. It's ok to be a little bit repetitive as it builds up a structure. The way that the patterns look and play doesn't always have to be the same, but the parts that you map should be. Make sure their is some variety to the parts of the music you're mapping though since following one instrument for a whole song would be boring, so remember to switch what you're following if you think it's appropriate Totally forgot, thanks, fixed.

Also i have one specific thing I would like you try, here at 00:21:144 (2,3,4,5,1) - I would try doing something like this Changed.


Doing this adds a bit of variety in your flow whilst also keeping it simple and easy to follow (this is just a simple cross pattern, simple shapes such as triangles, lines, crosses often give good flow in higher difficulties, maybe incorporate more into your map?) Sometimes, you can find it, but I don't like this style of mapping, so not followed.

[]

I hope this helps you in your mapping :)


Thanks for your mod!
RVMathew
Hi there. My part of the m4m. I would have posted it earlier but I was out in the morning.

Note that what I say is my own opinion so you do not have to follow everything I say. This time I am something different in my modding format


Lyrics
"You're Gonna Go Far, Kid"

Show me how to lie
You’re getting better all the time
And turning all against the one
Is an art that’s hard to teach
Another clever word
Sets off an unsuspecting herd
And as you step back into line
A mob jumps to their feet

Now dance, fucker, dance
Man, he never had a chance
And no one even knew
It was really only you

And now you steal away
Take him out today
Nice work you did
You’re gonna go far, kid

With a thousand lies
And a good disguise
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives

Slowly out of line
And drifting closer in your sights
So play it out I’m wide awake
It’s a scene about me
There’s something in your way
And now someone is gonna pay
And if you can’t get what you want
Well it’s all because of me

Now dance, fucker, dance
Man, I never had a chance
And no one even knew
It was really only you

And now you’ll lead the way
Show the light of day
Nice work you did
You’re gonna go far, kid
Trust, deceived!

With a thousand lies
And a good disguise
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives

Now dance, fucker, dance
He never had a chance
And no one even knew
It was really only you

So dance, fucker, dance
I never had a chance
It was really only you

With a thousand lies
And a good disguise
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives

Clever alibis
Lord of the flies
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
Hit ‘em right between the eyes
When you walk away
Nothing more to say
See the lightning in your eyes
See ‘em running for their lives
If you look at the lyrics, you can see that they use 18+ language, therefore you should state in your beatmap description that this song does contain 18+ lyrics. If you do not do that they may be serious consequences.

General
1) The background must be 1366*768 or 1024*768. The former is a better choice. Right now your background resolution does not match that. Assuming you want to keep the same image, the best I could find online was this, a 1280*720 resolution image. If you scale the image I linked to 1366*768 expect the image quality to go down a bit.

2) 00:56:822 - 01:13:948, 01:52:040 - 02:09:126 and 02:39:550 - 03:09:964. Notice how at these parts the vocals and the instruments are a bit more energetic? Here is where I would put kiai time in, to reflect that. However, from your part of the mod you said that kiai time hurts your eyes, so I assume that is why you have not put it in.

3) 2 Diffs is fine for this diff, but if you want more but do not feel like mapping, you can always ask other mappers to make a difficulty for you, unless you want to make this a solo effort.

4) I do not see that many hitsounds used; perhaps that explains why at parts of the chorus you suddenly swap between different samplesets (drum, soft, normal). This is especially noticeable in hard. Perhaps what would help you would be to use custom hitsounds.

Far
Something I have noticed is that you use quite a variety of patterns which is a good thing, but by the way you place some of the notes, it does not look that nice. Try and find a way of placing the notes that looks a little bit more clean, and pleasing to the eye.

1) 00:20:668 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - I like the pattern, but I think you can clean this part up to make it a lot neater.
- 00:21:144 (2) - Move this down to (392,144) so it is line with the end of slider 1. Then place 00:21:382 (3) - at (256,144) so it is neatly tucked underneath slider 1. With the AR you have used, It would be easy for the player to see the note.
- Arrange 4,5,6,7 like this: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5206413 It looks a lot more neater.

2) 00:30:658 (1,2) -
- Move note 2 down to (200, 118) so it lines up with the start of slider 1

3) 00:41:600 (1) - Move this spinner to 00:41:719 but keep the end at 00:43:502. If you did this part then add notes at 00:41:481 (9) and 00:41:600 (10). When playing this part, it seemed that you wanted to follow drums and vocals at the same time. Adding those notes will allow you to follow the rest of the drums.

4) 00:50:162 (1) - Nice slider shape.

5) 00:56:822 (1) - In the 'General' tab I mentioned about adding kiai time because this was the energetic part. To reflect that, other than adding kiai time, you can increase the slider velocity by 1.1-1.2x to reflect the music more.

6) 01:43:442 (1) - For this part, I think you should map some notes here instead of adding a spinner; since there are some good parts which are better off mapped.

7) 02:14:596 (1,2,1,2) - Try and arrange it like this so it looks a lot better: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5206525

8) 03:10:439 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1) - That is really really hard for someone of that skill level to hit. The rhythm is nice but it is really really hard to read.

I may have had some other points added but then my browser messed up and I lost some points.

Near
1) 01:27:268 (1) You should remove the spinner and map this part. Right now the recovery time from the end of the spinner to the next note is 1/1 apart (too short for this difficulty). Usually it will be 3/1 measures apart, but doing that would make then spinner too short, so you have to map this part.
Applies to:
- 02:07:738 (1) -
- 03:02:360 (1) -

2) 01:35:355 (2,3,1) - Arange like so it looks a little bit better. I like slider 1 by the way. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5206583

I am curious as to how you place your notes? From what I have seen so far, it seems that you prefer mapping in a linear style, which is interesting but may be boring. Then again I sometimes map like that so I cannot complain.

Final thoughts:

The rhythm is fine but the way you place some of the notes suggest that you do not have a clear thinking in terms of structure. Don't worry, over time you will make refinements to your mapping style. Also try and find custom hitsounds to spice up your map a lot more.


Good luck and contact me if you need anything else,
RVMathew.
Topic Starter
synf
Can't quote your mod, while my computer is bugging out :/ still thanks RVMathew.
I did quite a lot changes. Thanks for your 4th mention in "Far" diff :D. Also R.I.P. ending there.
Gonna continue soon. RL has not let me do this in one run.
Edit: About the Kiai, I have a 1/3 000 000 rarity eye disease, so I, fairly unlikely to my eyes, included it into this mapset.
Changed BG res.
Thank you for your mod :)
ksg
My end of a m4m

GENERAL

- I am not a great mapper, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
- As your mapping skill is clearly still in early development, I will focus to pointing out things you can think of to improve your future maps more than this map in particular, as I think that will in the end be more helpful.
- The very beginning has some interesting rhythms in the song; you could try to follow those for a more interesting play experience.
-I repeat this many times in the mods, but it really is incredibly helpful: Look at more experienced mappers' works, especially fairly recently (in the past couple years) ranked maps that you like for ideas on patterns. Also think about why they used certain spacing, why they made this a slider instead of a circle, think about both the patterns' aesthetic and, more importantly, gameplay effects.
- I would generally avoid overusing 90 degree angles and straight lines in my patterns, as those can get boring quickly.
- Use the Convert Slider to Stream tool (CTRL+SHIFT+F) to make evenly spaced and nice looking streams with low effort =)
- This mod would stretch out to be a huge wall of text, so I'll only do the harder difficulty. I think this will cover most of your major issues anyway. So, let's get to it.

DIFFICULTY: [Far]

- As mentioned in the GENERAL section, try to look for interesting rhythms to follow in the music, but keep consistent with them as to not confuse the player.

- Even in harder difficulties, spacing is a thing to consider; sudden changes in spacing without any cues from the music can really throw the player off. Again, I recommend checking experienced mappers' maps to learn more about this.

- Again on spacing, at around 00:33:988 (1) - the music kind of turns it on - you can (and probably should) do the same with your mapping. The beginning is fairly calm, so making the spacing around there more consistent and easy and then increasing it a bit at this point brings a nice contrast. Talking general spacing of course, not going to claim you have to keep distance snap on for every note or anything. Again, looking at other maps can help.

- 00:41:719 (1) - I don't find this spinner necessary in a harder difficulty; a nicely shaped couple of sliders would be more interesting for the player and also follow the vocals nicely.

- The timing right after the spinner feels off, maybe try to ask someone in #modhelp (although don't expect much from that place) or here for help with timings.

- 00:48:260 (1) - This slider looks like it wants to die if I'm going to be brutally honest with you. Experiment with slider shapes, and once again look at mappers who do these well. Remember, you can place temporary objects to be used as help tools to align sliders and make them nicely shaped.

- 00:54:682 (3) - this caught me off-guard while playing and there's not much of a cue for this slider in the music either, would probably remove it. The overlap with the following note is also a bit difficult to read

- The kiai time is actually pretty allright compared to the start. Still some big improvements needed, definitely, but it's more interesting to play than the parts before it.

- 01:12:521 (1) - Again a spinner that I disagree with quite strongly. The music at this part has nice rhythms to map, so why not just map them?

- After kiai the patterns get slightly better than at the beginning. Improvement, but still needs a load of work.

- 01:22:035 (1,2,3,4) - The spacing between the triple and the slider feels quite low, as there was more spacing between 01:21:321 (2,3,4,5) - this triple and the note after.

- 01:23:462 (3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3) - The sudden jump between these streams doesn't feel right to me, because the spacing has been quite chill until now. Consider flipping 01:23:462 (3,4,5,6,7) - this one around (CTRLl+G)

- 01:36:306 (1) - Same thing as the previous spinners I mentioned

- 01:38:923 (1,2,1,2,3) - This feels weird to play since it's a 1/4 stream and yet the repeat-sliders cover 3 1/4 notes each. Also try to avoid sliders in the middle of streams without a reason if there's no actual cue for it. Replacing streams with sliders can work very well but it needs to be done with care.

- 01:43:442 (1,1,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,1,1,1,1) - Kind of the same again. When adding 1/4 sliders (or any kind of sliders, really) to a stream, always start the first one at a white tick in the timeline. Otherwise it will catch players off-guard and feel a bit awkward to play

- 01:52:040 (1,2) - Try adding more spacing between these notes, otherwise it feels weird to play, since a 1/4 slider is essentially played as a 1/2 note, which makes the "feel" of spacing lower than it actually is between the slider's end and the next note. This repeats many times in the map, try to go through it with this in mind and edit where necessary.

- 02:21:493 (2) - The end of this slider is outside the grid. This is always unrankable. The center of any part of any hit object shouldn't be outside the grid, this includes slider tracks.

- 02:33:386 (1,1) - Again, strange overlap that can, and will catch players off-guard for no real reason. Try more spacing here.

- 02:52:618 (2,1) - overlaps like this can look ugly to some

- Timing goes off again at the end of the last kiai time.

- 03:06:637 (3,1,1) - again, 1/4 sliders starting at red ticks, not ideal

- 03:09:964 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1) - this is a nice idea for an ending pattern, but you might want to consider changing it a bit; the spacing between the circles and the start of the next slider is quite large compared to anywhere else in the map, making it hard to play.

I guess that's about it. I avoided repeating myself to the best of my ability, and trust you will be able to implement a fix for one problem to some other problems as well. Apologies if I sound harsh, but I don't believe learning happens effectively if you sugar-coat everything. Facing facts and dealing with them is the way to go. =)

Best of luck in your future mapping endeavours!
Topic Starter
synf

ksg wrote:

My end of a m4m

GENERAL

- I am not a great mapper, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
- As your mapping skill is clearly still in early development, I will focus to pointing out things you can think of to improve your future maps more than this map in particular, as I think that will in the end be more helpful.
- The very beginning has some interesting rhythms in the song; you could try to follow those for a more interesting play experience.
-I repeat this many times in the mods, but it really is incredibly helpful: Look at more experienced mappers' works, especially fairly recently (in the past couple years) ranked maps that you like for ideas on patterns. Also think about why they used certain spacing, why they made this a slider instead of a circle, think about both the patterns' aesthetic and, more importantly, gameplay effects.
- I would generally avoid overusing 90 degree angles and straight lines in my patterns, as those can get boring quickly.
- Use the Convert Slider to Stream tool (CTRL+SHIFT+F) to make evenly spaced and nice looking streams with low effort =)
- This mod would stretch out to be a huge wall of text, so I'll only do the harder difficulty. I think this will cover most of your major issues anyway. So, let's get to it.

DIFFICULTY: [Far]

- As mentioned in the GENERAL section, try to look for interesting rhythms to follow in the music, but keep consistent with them as to not confuse the player.

- Even in harder difficulties, spacing is a thing to consider; sudden changes in spacing without any cues from the music can really throw the player off. Again, I recommend checking experienced mappers' maps to learn more about this.

- Again on spacing, at around 00:33:988 (1) - the music kind of turns it on - you can (and probably should) do the same with your mapping. The beginning is fairly calm, so making the spacing around there more consistent and easy and then increasing it a bit at this point brings a nice contrast. Talking general spacing of course, not going to claim you have to keep distance snap on for every note or anything. Again, looking at other maps can help.

- 00:41:719 (1) - I don't find this spinner necessary in a harder difficulty; a nicely shaped couple of sliders would be more interesting for the player and also follow the vocals nicely.

- The timing right after the spinner feels off, maybe try to ask someone in #modhelp (although don't expect much from that place) or here for help with timings.

- 00:48:260 (1) - This slider looks like it wants to die if I'm going to be brutally honest with you. Experiment with slider shapes, and once again look at mappers who do these well. Remember, you can place temporary objects to be used as help tools to align sliders and make them nicely shaped.

- 00:54:682 (3) - this caught me off-guard while playing and there's not much of a cue for this slider in the music either, would probably remove it. The overlap with the following note is also a bit difficult to read

- The kiai time is actually pretty allright compared to the start. Still some big improvements needed, definitely, but it's more interesting to play than the parts before it.

- 01:12:521 (1) - Again a spinner that I disagree with quite strongly. The music at this part has nice rhythms to map, so why not just map them?

- After kiai the patterns get slightly better than at the beginning. Improvement, but still needs a load of work.

- 01:22:035 (1,2,3,4) - The spacing between the triple and the slider feels quite low, as there was more spacing between 01:21:321 (2,3,4,5) - this triple and the note after.

- 01:23:462 (3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3) - The sudden jump between these streams doesn't feel right to me, because the spacing has been quite chill until now. Consider flipping 01:23:462 (3,4,5,6,7) - this one around (CTRLl+G)

- 01:36:306 (1) - Same thing as the previous spinners I mentioned

- 01:38:923 (1,2,1,2,3) - This feels weird to play since it's a 1/4 stream and yet the repeat-sliders cover 3 1/4 notes each. Also try to avoid sliders in the middle of streams without a reason if there's no actual cue for it. Replacing streams with sliders can work very well but it needs to be done with care.

- 01:43:442 (1,1,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,1,1,1,1) - Kind of the same again. When adding 1/4 sliders (or any kind of sliders, really) to a stream, always start the first one at a white tick in the timeline. Otherwise it will catch players off-guard and feel a bit awkward to play

- 01:52:040 (1,2) - Try adding more spacing between these notes, otherwise it feels weird to play, since a 1/4 slider is essentially played as a 1/2 note, which makes the "feel" of spacing lower than it actually is between the slider's end and the next note. This repeats many times in the map, try to go through it with this in mind and edit where necessary.

- 02:21:493 (2) - The end of this slider is outside the grid. This is always unrankable. The center of any part of any hit object shouldn't be outside the grid, this includes slider tracks.

- 02:33:386 (1,1) - Again, strange overlap that can, and will catch players off-guard for no real reason. Try more spacing here.

- 02:52:618 (2,1) - overlaps like this can look ugly to some

- Timing goes off again at the end of the last kiai time.

- 03:06:637 (3,1,1) - again, 1/4 sliders starting at red ticks, not ideal

- 03:09:964 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1) - this is a nice idea for an ending pattern, but you might want to consider changing it a bit; the spacing between the circles and the start of the next slider is quite large compared to anywhere else in the map, making it hard to play.

I guess that's about it. I avoided repeating myself to the best of my ability, and trust you will be able to implement a fix for one problem to some other problems as well. Apologies if I sound harsh, but I don't believe learning happens effectively if you sugar-coat everything. Facing facts and dealing with them is the way to go. =)

Best of luck in your future mapping endeavours!
Thank you for your mod!
I changed a whole lot in terms of timing points/Kiai etc. (as written in my previous points, my eyes can't stand it)(Changed the offset, so it should be perfect)
I changed the mapping side of your mod, thank you for your advice with the "kicksliders".
About the mappers, I do learn a lot from them actually even without your advice, but still thanks!
Touhou
[3 Hour In game chat about basic mapping (the start is missing, too long)]
18:09 Touhou: rhythm wise
18:09 kolgar: ok
18:11 kolgar: ok i hear it like i placed circle on every "strong" beat (what i heard the loudest) and you put circles also between, although i dont understand why somewhere and why somewhere not
18:12 Touhou: i played it to the vocals only
18:12 Touhou: placed*
18:13 kolgar: still doesnt make me certain about this space then 00:34:464 -
18:13 Touhou: the lyrics are like this:
18:13 Touhou: daaaaaance fu-ker dance
18:13 kolgar: i memorized them
18:14 Touhou: do you know what syllables are?
18:14 Touhou: it's when you have a word
18:14 kolgar: yeah
18:14 Touhou: and you can divide it
18:14 Touhou: good
18:14 kolgar: i am in 10th grade
18:14 Touhou: as you can see the word dance is only one syllable
18:14 kolgar: i know a bit of english :)
18:14 kolgar: yeah exactly
18:14 kolgar: the other one is two
18:14 Touhou: yes
18:15 Touhou: so we put one object for dance
18:15 Touhou: because it's only 1 syllable
18:15 Touhou: fu-ker is two
18:15 Touhou: so we put two objects
18:15 kolgar: and two for the other one
18:15 Touhou: and the dance after fu-ker is one syllable again
18:15 kolgar: ok this made sense to me even before i hope
18:15 Touhou: so we put one more circle
18:15 Touhou: now let's replace 1 and 4 by sliders
18:16 Touhou: 00:35:415 - this part has the word "maybe"
18:16 kolgar: ok
18:16 Touhou: "may-be"
18:16 Touhou: two syllables
18:16 Touhou: two circles
18:17 kolgar: there is not maybe
18:17 kolgar: it is man he
18:17 kolgar: never had a chance ....
18:17 Touhou: oh
18:17 Touhou: it's man he?
18:17 Touhou: well still 2 syllables
18:17 Touhou: xd
18:17 kolgar: but yeah i understand :D
18:18 kolgar: the next long word is chaaaance
18:18 kolgar: iirc
18:18 kolgar: so again slider ? :D
18:18 Touhou: yes!
18:18 Touhou: you got it
18:18 Touhou: woooo
18:18 Touhou: but wait
18:18 Touhou: did you do this?
18:18 Touhou: 00:35:891 -
18:19 Touhou: it's "ne-ver had a "
18:19 Touhou: four circles
18:19 kolgar: yeah i did
18:19 kolgar: and chance 1/1 slider
18:19 Touhou: yup!
18:19 Touhou: good
18:19 Touhou: before we continue
18:19 Touhou: i want to explain new combo
18:20 Touhou: 00:35:891 - listen to this part
18:20 Touhou: the guitar changes a bit in the background
18:20 Touhou: it get's really loud for that one circle
18:20 Touhou: that's where we will put a new combo
18:21 kolgar: i actually would do a NC there, but because of the vocals :/
18:21 Touhou: combos make a group out of certain sounds
18:21 Touhou: when the sound changes or ends
18:21 Touhou: a new combo begins
18:21 kolgar: now i hear the guitar
18:21 kolgar: mb
18:21 Touhou: it's also a valid point for the vocals
18:21 Touhou: you are right
18:21 Touhou: but the guitar is a bit more intense imo
18:22 Touhou: it just bursts out of the background
18:22 Touhou: into the foreground
18:22 kolgar: yeah you are right
18:22 Touhou: just like the drums will in a bit
18:22 kolgar: hmm i see
18:22 Touhou: 00:39:697 - please map to this point
18:22 Touhou: when you reached this
18:22 Touhou: i will help with the drums
18:22 Touhou: because they're a bit hard
18:22 kolgar: ok
18:23 kolgar: let me try at first
18:23 kolgar: myselft
18:23 kolgar: myself*
18:23 Touhou: sure!
18:23 Touhou: small help: most new combos start at the big white line
18:23 Touhou: they're called ticks
18:23 Touhou: you seem them in the top time line
18:23 Touhou: but it's not always like that
18:24 kolgar: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5235587
18:24 kolgar: that is how i tried
18:25 kolgar: now NC yet though
18:25 kolgar: these are the drums only
18:25 Touhou: wow
18:25 Touhou: very good
18:25 Touhou: that's perfectly right
18:26 kolgar: thanks
18:26 Touhou: but for an hard difficulty it's a bit diffiuclt
18:26 Touhou: There is a little trick to make it easier
18:26 kolgar: yeah, i would add some sliders
18:26 Touhou: repeating sliders
18:26 Touhou: and you make them match the vocals! :D
18:26 kolgar: that is what i meant
18:27 kolgar: ok one small window here 00:39:935 -
18:27 kolgar: what would i have to do about that
18:27 Touhou: hmmm
18:27 Touhou: option 1:
18:28 Touhou: make a slider on the previous object
18:28 Touhou: and this will beocome the slider end
18:28 Touhou: or
18:29 Touhou: i think this fits the best
18:29 Touhou: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5235612
18:29 Touhou: you picked a difficult song for a first map
18:29 kolgar: ok i picked a song i like
18:30 kolgar: i think that is more important than being easy
18:30 Touhou: yes it is
18:30 Touhou: that will keep your motivation up
18:30 Touhou: do you see the gap betwen 1 and 3?
18:30 Touhou: i mean 1 and 2
18:31 kolgar: what?
18:31 kolgar: oh sorry
18:31 Touhou: the slider
18:31 kolgar: did not see the ss yet
18:31 Touhou: and then the triplet (3 circles)
18:31 Touhou: ah ok
18:31 Touhou: i wait
18:31 kolgar: wow
18:31 kolgar: i did the same LOL
18:31 kolgar: although changed combo colour at the first repeat slider
18:31 kolgar: but yeah i see that gap
18:32 kolgar: that is not a big of a problem imo
18:33 Touhou: yup it's not
18:33 Touhou: it's good for hard
18:33 Touhou: for insance difficulty
18:33 Touhou: you can close the gap with a circle
18:33 Touhou: and make it a small stream
18:33 Touhou: but i would use 3 circles as a burst max
18:33 Touhou: for hard difficult
18:33 Touhou: y
18:34 kolgar: i dont think that is too good
18:34 kolgar: i would disagree with that option
18:34 kolgar: people will generally hear the triplet
18:34 kolgar: not a quadruplet
18:34 Touhou: the end of the slider
18:34 kolgar: it will make more sense while they will be playing
18:34 Touhou: also counts as a circle
18:34 Touhou: don't forget that
18:34 Touhou: that means it's actually 5
18:35 kolgar: i don't
18:35 kolgar: i mean that people would not understand the reason behind that stream
18:35 Touhou: the drums
18:35 kolgar: they would not hear it at the slider end
18:35 Touhou: true
18:36 Touhou: that's an insane or extra would look like this
18:36 Touhou: 1 sec
18:36 kolgar: sure
18:36 Touhou: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5235657
18:36 Touhou: that's how it would be for an insane or extra
18:37 Touhou: the clickable objects are for the drums
18:37 Touhou: the streams however need to be shaped into patterns matching to the vocals
18:37 kolgar: actually i would split that
18:37 kolgar: into two streams
18:37 kolgar: because it doesn't make much sense to do it as long as this
18:38 Touhou: now we have a encountered a problem
18:38 Touhou: the problem is
18:38 Touhou: do we map it to reflect the music
18:38 Touhou: or do we map it for the player?
18:38 kolgar: combinde
18:38 Touhou: if we map for the player, we give him a break
18:38 kolgar: combined*
18:38 Touhou: if we map for the music, we make one big stream
18:39 Touhou: the reason for the long stream is mainy the vocals
18:39 Touhou: they are chained together
18:39 Touhou: a player would expect to follow the vocals but click to the drums
18:39 Touhou: if the drums suddenly have one empty space
18:39 Touhou: but the vocals go on
18:39 Touhou: the player will be confused
18:39 Touhou: because he wanted to follow the vocals more
18:40 Touhou: i hope it makes sense how i put it xd
18:40 kolgar: ok now i agree
18:40 kolgar: but well
18:40 kolgar: the vocals are still 1/2
18:40 kolgar: and the drums are 1/4 - the streams
18:40 Touhou: the words are like this
18:40 Touhou: it was rea-ly on-ly you
18:41 Touhou: the ly are long
18:41 Touhou: they don't just end
18:41 kolgar: i know
18:41 Touhou: he hold them a bit
18:41 Touhou: holds*
18:41 kolgar: but
18:41 Touhou: and exactly that held vocal can confuse the player
18:41 Touhou: if he has to stop here
18:41 Touhou: because he has been following the vocals all this time
18:42 Touhou: and now suddenly he doesn't anymore
18:42 Touhou: this is consistency
18:42 kolgar: the -ly of on-ly is here 00:40:410 (4) - and then is another new word here 00:40:648 (1) -
18:42 Touhou: you need to make it consistent
18:42 Touhou: yes i can see that
18:42 Touhou: that's why we use a new combo
18:42 Touhou: but the lyyyyy is long
18:43 kolgar: no
18:43 kolgar: the ly is short
18:43 kolgar: stacato style
18:43 Touhou: the ly ends here
18:43 Touhou: 00:40:648 (1) -
18:43 Touhou: this is where the yyyy ends
18:43 Touhou: exactly at the next word
18:43 kolgar: 25% ensured me you are right)
18:43 kolgar: ok now i understand
18:44 Touhou: it's ok lol
18:44 Touhou: this is something modders may argue about too
18:44 Touhou: and I'm not even active in the modding scene
18:44 kolgar: well, who is
18:44 Touhou: some people are
18:44 Touhou: they rather mod than map
18:44 Touhou: anyway, let's continue
18:45 Touhou: let's do the whole part between the second kiai
18:45 kolgar: yeah that would be good
18:45 kolgar: ok
18:45 Touhou: you know what to do now
18:45 Touhou: delete all
18:45 Touhou: xd
18:45 Touhou: 00:41:600 - 00:56:822 -
18:45 kolgar: i wont delete what you sent me though
18:45 Touhou: yeah
18:45 Touhou: i send you the time
18:45 Touhou: of start and ending
18:45 Touhou: click on it and delete everything between
18:46 kolgar: i mean
18:46 Touhou: oh i see what you mean
18:46 Touhou: the first thing we did
18:46 Touhou: well you can delete it too
18:46 kolgar: you sent me a pattern that ends00:48:707 -
18:46 kolgar: ok
18:46 Touhou: and try to find it on your own
18:46 Touhou: it helps for practice
18:46 kolgar: ok
18:46 Touhou: btw
18:47 Touhou: once you changed all object to the right ones
18:47 Touhou: and apply some nice looking patterns
18:47 Touhou: people will be impressed what a good first map you have
18:47 Touhou: :p
18:47 kolgar: :DD
18:47 Touhou: but don't worry about patterns now
18:47 Touhou: patterns take a lot of time
18:48 Touhou: and if you need to remove one circle
18:48 Touhou: the whole pattern mostly falls apart
18:48 Touhou: and needs reworking
18:48 Touhou: and some patterns are even chained together
18:48 Touhou: making it a real pain to fix
18:48 Touhou: that's why you should do that after you got every right object on the screen
18:48 Touhou: and correct combos
18:49 Touhou: (do you see now what i meant with, this wont be a normal mod at the start of the conversation? XD)
18:49 kolgar: :D
18:49 Touhou: because a normal mod would confuse you
18:49 Touhou: if i write it all down
18:49 Touhou: without letting you try on your own etc
18:51 Touhou: okay, you finish that part then i'll check what you did
18:51 Touhou: after that the rest of the map is for you to change alone
18:51 Touhou: just apply what you learned now xd
18:51 kolgar: ok
18:58 kolgar: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5235791 http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5235798 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5235804
18:59 Touhou: upload changes
18:59 Touhou: even if the patterns are not done
18:59 Touhou: lol
18:59 Touhou: that's what i always do
18:59 kolgar: ok....
19:00 Touhou: just call it far "work in progress" or something
19:00 Touhou: idk
19:00 Touhou: ok looking at changesw
19:01 Touhou: 00:41:600 (1,2) -
19:01 Touhou: i would make a long slider here
19:01 Touhou: ending on the white tick (1/1)
19:01 Touhou: and having a circle on the red tick
19:01 kolgar: i would not
19:01 kolgar: whilst the vocals are louder than anything else here
19:01 Touhou: true
19:02 Touhou: but the guitars are comming through quite loudly
19:02 Touhou: that's what i meant earlier with long vocals
19:02 kolgar: i dont hear them in that part
19:02 Touhou: where you start the vocal but then continue with the instrument
19:02 kolgar: ok
19:02 Touhou: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5235832
19:02 Touhou: try this
19:03 Touhou: then tell me if you still disagree
19:03 Touhou: pay attention to the guitar too
19:04 kolgar: ok i agree with the two sliders 00:42:551 (1,2) - but disagree with the part afterwards
19:05 kolgar: i think having a singletap session i ok there
19:05 Touhou: yeah it would be okay
19:05 Touhou: the drums support the singletaps
19:05 Touhou: but the player would expect to play to the loud guitar
19:05 Touhou: which is held
19:05 Touhou: you can make circles too
19:05 Touhou: both are fine imo
19:06 kolgar: this part would be unexpectively slow if there was a long slider imo
19:06 Touhou: if you want the map to melodic and lively, map to vocals and guitar
19:06 kolgar: like the player played a fast part
19:06 Touhou: if you want a static map, map to drums
19:06 Touhou: best thing would be to combine both
19:07 kolgar: well in this case...
19:07 Touhou: you have to keep in mind, that this is right after the kiai
19:07 Touhou: meaning the intense parts are already over
19:07 Touhou: and a new kiai is about to appear soon
19:07 kolgar: yeah you are right
19:07 Touhou: if you make it singletap heavy, the kiai part will feel just the same
19:07 Touhou: and it's a bit boring
19:07 kolgar: definitely better to go slow
19:07 Touhou: you can add contrast and make the kiai much more powerful with having a slow part
19:08 Touhou: it will slowly build up and then end in the kiai
19:08 Touhou: hope it makes sense what i tried to say
19:08 Touhou: lol
19:08 kolgar: yeah it does
19:08 Touhou: i got a graph that i made a while ago
19:08 Touhou: take a look
19:08 kolgar: making higher difference between kiai and other parts is better
19:09 kolgar: i agree
19:09 Touhou: trying to find the picture
19:09 Touhou: 1 sec
19:09 kolgar: ok brb toilet
19:10 kolgar: ok i am here
19:11 Touhou: http://puu.sh/nrpKF/bf1eaf1d02.jpg
19:12 Touhou: since i had no music lessons
19:12 Touhou: i wrote things like "greeting" xd
19:12 Touhou: i mean by that, it's a preview for the song
19:12 kolgar: that is pretty accurate name
19:13 Touhou: please look at the graph
19:13 Touhou: as you can see
19:13 Touhou: some parts are slow and some parts are fast
19:13 Touhou: that's what makes a map fun
19:13 Touhou: try to implement that
19:13 Touhou: you can even reduce slider speed or increase slider speed
19:13 Touhou: i personally use 10% faster sliders during kiai
19:13 Touhou: and 10% slower sliders during the slow parts
19:13 kolgar: i use 1.15 in kiai
19:13 Touhou: nice
19:14 kolgar: did not use slow in slow parts though
19:14 Touhou: i would suggest
19:14 Touhou: to look for 3 parts of the song
19:14 Touhou: slow, normal and kiai
19:14 kolgar: ok that makes sense
19:14 Touhou: to spice it up
19:14 Touhou: because having one and the same pace all the time
19:14 Touhou: is just boring
19:14 Touhou: lol
19:14 Touhou: save the picture i send
19:14 Touhou: http://puu.sh/nrpKF/bf1eaf1d02.jpg
19:14 kolgar: yeah that comes up true
19:15 Touhou: you can see where the kiai is
19:15 Touhou: most songs are build similar i've noticed
19:15 kolgar: not most
19:15 Touhou: well it depends on genre
19:15 Touhou: atleast music i like shows similarities
19:15 kolgar: pop/rock and overall vocal genred songs have these
19:16 Touhou: like i said, i didn't have music class
19:16 Touhou: xd
19:16 kolgar: this aint music class
19:16 kolgar: this is constant years of music
19:16 kolgar: puberty
19:16 kolgar: changing genres
19:16 kolgar: this makes it usually
19:18 Touhou: hmm
19:18 kolgar: can we move on if there is more? :D
19:18 Touhou: i want to say something about spacing before i forget
19:18 kolgar: go on
19:19 Touhou: how far you put circles away and how big or small the angle of the cursor turn has to be
19:19 Touhou: depends on the intensity of the part you're mapping and the intensity of the object itself
19:19 Touhou: meaning, if you have a really loud drum hit during the kiai
19:20 Touhou: that circle should be further away than the rest
19:20 Touhou: and the angle can be more difficult to aim
19:20 kolgar: sure, i have read this before in the other mods
19:20 Touhou: when you have a new combo for instance
19:20 Touhou: the first circle of the new combo is usually quite loud
19:20 Touhou: meaning you can build in a small jump in there
19:20 Touhou: it will feel natural to play and fit the map
19:21 Touhou: while spicing the map
19:21 Touhou: that's what you want in general
19:21 Touhou: for a fun map
19:21 kolgar: ok i understand
19:21 Touhou: do you know about slider leniency already?
19:21 Touhou: and flow?
19:21 Touhou: it's important
19:21 kolgar: heard it maybe misunderstood
19:21 Touhou: okay np
19:22 Touhou: let me find it
19:22 Touhou: 1 sec
19:22 Touhou: https://i.ppy.sh/32f3071d5b92d702a5c719 ... 372e6a7067
19:22 Touhou: https://i.ppy.sh/53fa828d4650137e03df6f ... 312e6a7067
19:23 Touhou: https://i.ppy.sh/2db3b2ac5786f26cc32cea ... 392e6a7067
19:23 Touhou: mapping combines music, art and mathematics
19:23 kolgar: ok
19:23 kolgar: this might explain something
19:23 Touhou: slider leniency means
19:23 kolgar: i would not say maths
19:23 kolgar: but geometry
19:24 Touhou: that sliders don't have to be finished
19:24 kolgar: two seperate things
19:24 Touhou: players do not drag to the end
19:24 kolgar: yeah
19:24 Touhou: they mostly jump of the slider as soon as they can
19:24 Touhou: so keep that in mind
19:24 kolgar: unluckily i dont do this
19:24 Touhou: when you make patterns
19:24 Touhou: it's fine
19:24 Touhou: it's good that you learn
19:24 Touhou: what you didn't do
19:24 Touhou: that improves your skills a lot
19:25 Touhou: one last picture
19:25 Touhou: http://66.media.tumblr.com/f9d97bfa3e85 ... qz4rgp.png
19:25 Touhou: the green lines are flow
19:25 Touhou: flow is hard to define
19:25 Touhou: i would say: "flow determines how smooth the transition between circles and patterns are"
19:26 kolgar: i would define it as the highest possible movement of the player's cursor
19:26 kolgar: for each object
19:26 Touhou: em
19:27 Touhou: maybe worded poorly
19:27 kolgar: well that is what i see on the pictures
19:27 Touhou: i think of flow as of "feels good to play "
19:27 Touhou: having a sudden turn makes it unpleasant to aim
19:27 kolgar: yeah
19:27 Touhou: and feels a bit cluncky
19:27 Touhou: making it not fun to play
19:27 Touhou: but it can fit!
19:27 Touhou: if you have a part in the music
19:27 Touhou: that allows a change in direction or something
19:28 Touhou: t/86329
19:28 Touhou: https://osu.ppy.sh/news/61334266941
19:28 kolgar: ? i think you are getting a bit deeper than i can yet
19:28 Touhou: http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Beatmapping
19:28 Touhou: t/239778/
19:28 Touhou: please read those
19:29 Touhou: i will go to eat and I'm back in about 30 minutes
19:29 kolgar: :DDDD
19:29 Touhou: can you read that end type in everything you learned?
19:29 Touhou: so that i can see what you understood ?
19:29 kolgar: what?
19:29 Touhou: only things you didn't know yet
19:29 kolgar: ok
19:29 Touhou: read, and tell me what you could learn from the post
19:29 Touhou: i'm curious how helpful they are
19:30 kolgar: ok
19:30 Touhou: because they helped me a lot
19:30 Touhou: please read all of the posts, lol
19:30 Touhou: it's worth it, i promise
19:30 kolgar: yeah sure
19:30 Touhou: ok brb 30mins
19:30 kolgar: hopefully
19:30 Touhou: enjoy
19:30 kolgar: cya
19:52 Touhou: wot
19:52 Touhou: I'm back
19:52 kolgar: oh
19:52 kolgar: reading the last article
19:52 Touhou: had some nice cheese with bread and wine
19:52 kolgar: oh come on
19:52 Touhou: :D
19:52 kolgar: you are making me hungry
19:52 Touhou: ok finish that article
19:52 Touhou: and then let's discuss itr
19:55 kolgar: ok
19:55 kolgar: i think i have got it
19:56 Touhou: that was a lot wasn't it
19:56 Touhou: xd
19:56 kolgar: so about the osu!wiki post, i have read it before
19:56 kolgar: yeah that sure was
19:56 Touhou: but was it worth it?
19:56 Touhou: you tell me! :D
19:56 kolgar: well
19:56 kolgar: atm it is
19:56 kolgar: i hope it will be even tomorrow
19:57 kolgar: because today i am becoming too tired to do all
19:57 Touhou: yeah ofc
19:57 kolgar: about the flow:
19:57 kolgar: i never really followed it so that is something new
19:58 kolgar: about the leniency:
19:58 kolgar: yeah i knew about it and did some basic patterns using it
19:58 kolgar: about the Jenny post:
19:58 kolgar: seems legit i guess? :D
19:59 kolgar: like yes i understand
19:59 kolgar: still dunno how to take it
20:00 Touhou: you will remember those posts
20:00 Touhou: as you have parts where you're not sure what to do
20:00 Touhou: so dw
20:01 kolgar: i am sure there is no way i am going to memorize even 75% of what is important there soon
20:01 kolgar: will take time
20:01 kolgar: but hopefully help
20:03 kolgar: ok i think i am done for today, so is there anymore you wanna tell me?
20:03 Touhou: well I need to see your updated map first
20:03 Touhou: so i guess not
20:03 Touhou: just PM me again once you reworked everything
20:03 Touhou: and then i will do one of these "normal mods" where i just point out what to fix i guess
20:03 kolgar: ok, hopefully it will be soon
20:04 kolgar: i look forward to it, bye
I wouldn't expand this, it's quite long.
Have we gone too far, kid?
Kantzm8
far
00:20:668 (1,2) - This should probably have 1,2 DS like the rest here
00:22:333 (7,1) - Fix overlap
00:26:139 (6,1) - ^
00:36:605 (4,5) - ^
00:40:054 - The intense drumming starts here, not at 00:40:172 -
00:41:124 (2,1) - Overlap. At this point i am gonna stop pointing out ugly overlaps because there are too many of them whcih makes the map look sort busy and clumsy.
01:11:687 - , again there is a drum sound here
02:09:601 (3,4,5) - These jumps seem too big
02:23:634 (4,1) - This is a 4,6DS jumps on a hard map. Way too big.
02:53:806 (4) - The drummer is going hard during this slider, might wanna consider something to reflect that instead

So yeah, the biggest problem this map has is probably the overlaps everywhere. Good luck!
Topic Starter
synf

HappyStreet wrote:

far
00:20:668 (1,2) - This should probably have 1,2 DS like the rest here I used slider leniency there, so it is 1,2 DS
00:22:333 (7,1) - Fix overlap Done, thanks.
00:26:139 (6,1) - ^ ^
00:36:605 (4,5) - ^ This is intended, and it is well-readable even with EZHT, if more people disagree, I will change that.
00:40:054 - The intense drumming starts here, not at 00:40:172 - Again, this is intended, I did not want to make a quintuplet, while this is a Hard diff.
00:41:124 (2,1) - Overlap. At this point i am gonna stop pointing out ugly overlaps because there are too many of them whcih makes the map look sort busy and clumsy. Thanks.
01:11:687 - , again there is a drum sound here Again, this is intended.
02:09:601 (3,4,5) - These jumps seem too big Yeah, you are right, fixed.
02:23:634 (4,1) - This is a 4,6DS jumps on a hard map. Way too big. Although that is a kickslider, which is played like a 1/2 circle, I agree that the spacing is a bit too high, fixed.
02:53:806 (4) - The drummer is going hard during this slider, might wanna consider something to reflect that instead I think that there is no right solve to this, but I tried a change.

So yeah, the biggest problem this map has is probably the overlaps everywhere. Good luck! Thanks :)
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