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What do you think about eyetracking?

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Topic Starter
DangerNoodle
With the recent launch of consumer ready eyetracking hardware (e.g. Tobii EyeX) I thought it might be worth trying in Osu!.

It might even work better than tablets cause you wouldn't have to use your hand to aim.

What do you guys think? Would you consider using stuff like that?
Adder
i dont think its possible to aim and read at the same time, my eyes are like always looking all over the screen.
Ninonuko
It won't be effective because eyes won't move faster than hand.
Topic Starter
DangerNoodle

Ninonuko wrote:

It won't be effective because eyes won't move faster than hand.
Hmm, you might be right. Did anyone do the science already?
I Give Up
I imagine eye tracking has huge delay.
Topic Starter
DangerNoodle
According to product specs the eye to app latency is 15 ms

I've pasted the specs from the website down below for easy acces:
SPOILER
Operating range: 18-40" / 45-100 cm
Headbox size: 16 x 12" / 40 x 30 cm at 26" / 65 cm
Data rate: >60 Hz
Eye to Application latency: 15 ms +/- 5 ms
Screen size: Up to 27"
Weight: 0.2 lb / 91 grams
Size (WxHxL): 0.8x0.6x12.5 in / 20x15x230 mm
Ninonuko

Souled_Eagle wrote:

Ninonuko wrote:

It won't be effective because eyes won't move faster than hand.
Hmm, you might be right. Did anyone do the science already?
It's from my experience, sometimes I rely on peripheral vision to aim because I don't have enough time to focus on the circle i.e. bull's eye
deletemyaccount
Definitely a fun novelty, but the latency and accuracy probably isn't high enough for it to be viable.

By the time it is, osu! Will probably already be ded
FreshSheet

Ninonuko wrote:

It's from my experience, sometimes I rely on peripheral vision to aim because I don't have enough time to focus on the circle i.e. bull's eye
^^This.
Especially if there's jumps back and forth, I think eye tracking in those situations would just hurt your eyes.
Kunino Sagiri
Even if it has 0-1ms max delay, it's obviously a trap product.
Deva

Ninonuko wrote:

It won't be effective because eyes won't move faster than hand.
Eyes have kinda the fastest muscles in body so...
chainpullz

Souled_Eagle wrote:

According to product specs the eye to app latency is 15 ms

I've pasted the specs from the website down below for easy acces:
SPOILER
Operating range: 18-40" / 45-100 cm
Headbox size: 16 x 12" / 40 x 30 cm at 26" / 65 cm
Data rate: >60 Hz
Eye to Application latency: 15 ms +/- 5 ms
Screen size: Up to 27"
Weight: 0.2 lb / 91 grams
Size (WxHxL): 0.8x0.6x12.5 in / 20x15x230 mm
So basically it polls at inconsistent rates between 50-100hz which is even less than tablet and doesn't have the error magnitude/propagation guarantees that a tablet has. I was skeptical when zenny popped in touting about how optical keyboards are the next best thing (still not enough unbiased data collected to confirm/deny and narrill did a good job debunking some of the marketing propaganda) and they have much much better listed specs than this. If you've ever tried playing with vsync on you'll understand just how shitty that polling rate is.
Saphirshroom
Polling rate is pretty damn horrible as has already been mentioned.
And more importantly, I highly doubt getting control of your eyes to the point where they are as accurate as your hands to aim with is possible. You'd always have to read the map at the same speed, so during sections that have patterns varying in complexity you'd get screwed over completely. (And then there's the thing with peripheral vision)
Ninonuko

HK_ wrote:

Ninonuko wrote:

It won't be effective because eyes won't move faster than hand.
Eyes have kinda the fastest muscles in body so...
It's fastest reacting muscle, still it won't move the cursor faster than hand I think.
+ sliders will make it even harder for eyes to track
+ you move your hand more than your eye when you masturbating, so it's more trained than your eyes in term of continuous movement
Edit : welp, I think hand is more agile than eyes exactly (not faster).
Lambykinz
Sounds interesting, but I feel like my eyes would hurt after awhile... also spinners lol
peppy
I have one of these and can confirm playing a single map with it will make your either vomit or feel horrible for up to four hours afterwards (tried on a few people, so sample size is 3). Personally, my eyes are never focused on single circles, so forcing that takes huge brainpower. Sliders are also nigh impossible as human eyes aren't made to do that kind of tracking.

The precision and polling rate of the devices are not issues for what it's worth. But I would recommend this to no one that wants to keep their sanity.
I Give Up
Probably would be a specialised play style only few could master like mouse only. I would still like to give this a try :D
Topic Starter
DangerNoodle

peppy wrote:

I have one of these and can confirm playing a single map with it will make your either vomit or feel horrible for up to four hours afterwards (tried on a few people, so sample size is 3). [...]

The precision and polling rate of the devices are not issues for what it's worth. But I would recommend this to no one that wants to keep their sanity.

Well, it seems to have similar problems to early VR products. And now that I think about it, it doesn't seem to be too smart to use one of the most important balance organs for hectic movement :?


Btw: It might be interesting to see eye tracking integrated in VR Headsets (but playing osu with such a combination would probably multiply the strain).
Shiirn
As maps get harder, player reliance on peripheral vision increases exponentially. Many top players scarcely even move their eyes all that much away from the center of whatever pattern they're in the middle of. The problem isn't in VR products or any form of technology - the fault lies in the fact that eye-tracking technology follows simply the positioning of the pupils, rather than what we are actually mentally focused on - that is something that is, if at all even possible, centuries of technology away from the present (as it would basically be mind-reading technology).

Humans view the world through a screen that we can only see about 2% of at a time - our brain automatically fills in the rest from extremely blurry data that is often mis-matched but automatically written over by instinct. Our vision is about 120 degrees, but our specific vision - formed by the Macula, is only about six degrees in any direction, or in other words, about 2-3 inches in diameter on the average computer screen (which is about 6-8% of total surface area, by rough guesstimation).

At lower levels of play it can certainly seem feasible to follow maps with direct eye movement as the spacing between notes is often within that point, but as spacing and speed goes up, it becomes impossible to keep up with moving your focal of vision to every new note, so you fall back on muscle memory and instinct along with just plain practice at relying on peripheral cues - this is why some things are "unreadable", because they aren't following the standard rules that automatically crop up as player habits evolve to fit higher difficulties of challenge in this game.
chainpullz

Shiirn wrote:

At lower levels of play it can certainly seem feasible to follow maps with direct eye movement as the spacing between notes is often within that point, but as spacing and speed goes up, it becomes impossible to keep up with moving your focal of vision to every new note, so you fall back on muscle memory and instinct along with just plain practice at relying on peripheral cues - this is why some things are "unreadable", because they aren't following the standard rules that automatically crop up as player habits evolve to fit higher difficulties of challenge in this game.
Or just be adamqs and HDHR the "unreadable" map anyways. :p
Shiirn
At that point it's simply due to memory as opposed to actually reading the input of the map.
chainpullz

Shiirn wrote:

At that point it's simply due to memory as opposed to actually reading the input of the map.
If the map input was insubstantial there would be no reason not to toss on flashlight as well. You can say the same thing about ar11 reading but when it comes down to it there is a dependence on map input even if some basic memorization is required. This dependence implies that actual reading is being done, even if it's different from the normal connotation of reading.

In the case of ar11 (afaik) the memorization aspect largely comes down to memorizing jumps between clusters as when the notes are close enough together you can actually react to the input fast enough.

For HDHR it's mostly just learning what to expect from a map as opposed to actual memorization. You don't need to memorize every perfect stack in the map, just the neighborhoods to expect which kind of stack in. For slider velocity changes it's largely just memorizing when to be on edge and when you can be more relaxed as opposed to memorizing every slider. Reading HDHR (or ar11 for that matter) is just very different from the usual notion of reading. I'd equate it to the difference between micro and macro economics. They are both branches of economics but they focus on very different things.
Jellyfish McGub
i think if you backed up and got used to it it would be op.
nadavv

Ninonuko wrote:

It's fastest reacting muscle, still it won't move the cursor faster than hand I think.
+ sliders will make it even harder for eyes to track
+ you move your hand more than your eye when you masturbating, so it's more trained than your eyes in term of continuous movement
Edit : welp, I think hand is more agile than eyes exactly (not faster).
about the slider part just imagine doing something like endless tewi inaba park using your eyes
Jellyfish McGub
i thought it would be harder to track sliders but it turns out that it wont be because you can just focus on the center of the circle
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