Just my curiosity - o!mania overjoy marathons are also capped in 1kk score like iirc other maps?
forum
Score V2; Poll
posted
Total Posts
119
What's your opinion on Score V2?
Total votes: 2277
I agree with it minus the score cap. Score cap is dumb
I think people are misinterpreting the score cap.
The cap is 1mm (million). That means every single song played 100% perfectly will give you a score of 1mm (plus modifiers, plus spinner score).
Every song played perfectly with one note missed at the start will give you less than 1mil (if no mods or spinners) but depending on the amount of notes in the song the difference between the score and 1mm will be larger or smaller. Songs with a lot of notes will have a higher score than songs with fewer notes for example.
Full combo still matters since as you go up in combo each note hit is worth more than the last in a quadratically increasing manner just that the amount of score you get is normalized to 70% of 1million for a full combo.
If you played a marathon song today that has 2000 notes your score would be pretty gigantic. The only difference the score cap does is normalize the maximum score to 1mm. Due to the weighting of combo (70% of score) and acc (30% of score) you can't directly compare scorev1 to scorev2. You can make scenarios where you could compare them though. If (pretend fail is off but no 0.5 modifier to score) you had a long map with 1000 notes and compared the ratio (low score divided by high score) of a 100% score to a 100% score that missed the first 50% of the notes, the scorev1 and scorev2 ratios would be the same minus some rounding error.
I wouldn't say the score is capped to 1 million but rather that your final score is normalized to 1 million. Relatively and proprotionally unnormalized vs normalized numbers remain the same.
Let me know if I've misinterpreted the scoring system though I only gave it a cursory read from the first post here (t/375428)
The cap is 1mm (million). That means every single song played 100% perfectly will give you a score of 1mm (plus modifiers, plus spinner score).
Every song played perfectly with one note missed at the start will give you less than 1mil (if no mods or spinners) but depending on the amount of notes in the song the difference between the score and 1mm will be larger or smaller. Songs with a lot of notes will have a higher score than songs with fewer notes for example.
Full combo still matters since as you go up in combo each note hit is worth more than the last in a quadratically increasing manner just that the amount of score you get is normalized to 70% of 1million for a full combo.
If you played a marathon song today that has 2000 notes your score would be pretty gigantic. The only difference the score cap does is normalize the maximum score to 1mm. Due to the weighting of combo (70% of score) and acc (30% of score) you can't directly compare scorev1 to scorev2. You can make scenarios where you could compare them though. If (pretend fail is off but no 0.5 modifier to score) you had a long map with 1000 notes and compared the ratio (low score divided by high score) of a 100% score to a 100% score that missed the first 50% of the notes, the scorev1 and scorev2 ratios would be the same minus some rounding error.
I wouldn't say the score is capped to 1 million but rather that your final score is normalized to 1 million. Relatively and proprotionally unnormalized vs normalized numbers remain the same.
Let me know if I've misinterpreted the scoring system though I only gave it a cursory read from the first post here (t/375428)
Yeah but a change to a scoring system like that makes no sense in singleplayer
Yeah changing the score system at this point in time with no way to accurately convert existing scores seems pretty useless/controversial.
Please just keep the game the way it is :/. There is no point AT ALL in fixing something that isn't broke. People have worked so hard to get all the scores they have got up to this point and love the game the way it is. If everything changed this much a lot of people might quit and never come back , would that be good for the game? no it would not........
On the contrary. It's been broken since the beginning (osu! was based off of a non-competitive portable rhythm game, after all); the biggest reason a Score V2 hasn't happened yet is because a score wipe would devastate the community. But with osu!next just around the corner, it makes at least some sense for the developer(s) to think about revamping the game's fundamentals again, however controversial it may seem.Ignitorex wrote:
There is no point AT ALL in fixing something that isn't broke.
---
As for the current state of Score V2 itself, I do think it might need a bit more thought in terms of its implementation. I'm all for the addition of accuracy-based sliders into the game and the higher skill ceiling it will provide (despite how much of an influence the current system's flaws have made on modern mapping styles), but there has to be a better way to implement it instead of the current plan of only applying it to new maps.
In my opinion, I think the implementation should be something like the Beatmania IIDX's Expert-Score system (in that the old score system stays in the game as a secondary display despite having no direct competitive relevance), while older scores should have their "Score V2" value calculated based on the lowest possible value given the limited amount of information that is still saved on the server (or better yet, have them recalculated using a replay if available). That way, older scores aren't worthless, Ranked Score players can still be happy with their Score V1 metric, and PP players are encouraged to improve their old achievements if they want them to stay relevant. From my perspective, everyone wins.
And seeing as plenty of other rhythm games already have some sort of scorecap implemented already, I wouldn't be totally against that idea. But I think the idea would be more appealing to people if it was based off of hitobject count rather than a flat cap of 10 million. Just my two cents.
Score right now is already based off of hit object count. 
i think play more should be developed into score v2
But it's exponential... Even if sliders were made accuracy-based, your accuracy will still be pretty worthless with the current system.Khelly wrote:
Score right now is already based off of hit object count.
Accuracy is pretty OP at high combos just talking about score because every 100 you get is 1/3 of what you could get?YayMii wrote:
But it's exponential... Even if sliders were made accuracy-based, your accuracy will still be pretty worthless with the current system.Khelly wrote:
Score right now is already based off of hit object count.
Perhaps "worthless" was a bad term to describe it... But accuracy being "OP at high combos" is part of the issue.Khelly wrote:
Accuracy is pretty OP at high combos just talking about score because every 100 you get is 1/3 of what you could get?
With the current system, you could get a handful of 100s near the beginning of a map and still get a higher score than someone who got a single 100 near the end. This makes it incredibly punishing for anyone who has a high accuracy and just happens to make a small fumble. While I understand this would encourage maps to get more difficult as it progresses, I would still rather have accuracy and combo be kept as separate metrics. Not just to make late-map chokes less frustrating, but also to allow for a greater variety when it comes to how difficulty is distributed throughout a map.
It might also be worth keeping in mind that the current PP system doesn't really care where you got your 50s and 100s (it only cares about the amount), so this score mechanic is already kinda irrelevant.
I agree with anything on standard except this: with the right timing window I think slider end timing should count and if not 300 standard should have 200 for no combo break on sliders.
On mania 50 and 100 should count as combo break, because mania is all about the accuracy.
On mania 50 and 100 should count as combo break, because mania is all about the accuracy.
That's essentially forcing players to max combo in order to guarantee fc, which would ruin technical and wub wub maps.Cra Dow wrote:
I agree with anything on standard except this: with the right timing window I think slider end timing should count and if not 300 standard should have 200 for no combo break on sliders.
On mania 50 and 100 should count as combo break, because mania is all about the accuracy.
Score V2 = Me quitting osu simple
Same, I wonder how anyone could even come up with such a ridicoulus decission...
Topic Starter
Seems a lot of people share my opinion. If score v2 replaced our current system, I'd consider quitting too. After all, 1000 hours of play down the drain once score is obsolete.
I doubt that they'd be able to make the switch without carrying over old scores somehow... otherwise they'd be alienating most of the community.
As I see it, scorev2 has already been implemented as a mod on the cutting-edge client (and also is the only score system built into the brand new client they're working on). Since per-mod leaderboards have also been added to the game recently (with only the highest PP-weighted score per map being included in your rank), the new scores can simply be stored separate from the old scores and weighed together once the system becomes ranked.
Then it's just a matter of how they'll weigh the old scores in PP, which could be as simple as assigning a preset slider accuracy value to all of the scores that were made in the old system (who knows).
As I see it, scorev2 has already been implemented as a mod on the cutting-edge client (and also is the only score system built into the brand new client they're working on). Since per-mod leaderboards have also been added to the game recently (with only the highest PP-weighted score per map being included in your rank), the new scores can simply be stored separate from the old scores and weighed together once the system becomes ranked.
Then it's just a matter of how they'll weigh the old scores in PP, which could be as simple as assigning a preset slider accuracy value to all of the scores that were made in the old system (who knows).
You haven't even fc'd every single ranked map to date. They have no way of recalculating all the scores and they aren't going to wipe all the scoreboards. So you are forced to only play the ranked maps ranked prior to the change if you want to make meaningful gains in the score rankings? How is that any different from people who play for pp who are forced to play bullshit spike maps to make meaningful gains in the pp rankings? Get over yourself. Stop letting some arbitrary number on your profile control your life.B1rd wrote:
Seems a lot of people share my opinion. If score v2 replaced our current system, I'd consider quitting too. After all, 1000 hours of play down the drain once score is obsolete.
Give people separated ladder for ScoreV2 with ability to gain PP from maps.
Score multiplier: 1.0
PP wise - applies all SV2 rules
Who wants to play SV2 will play it and get pp from maps, who doesn't - fuck it, let them cry over slider maps, technical maps and any other like that not giving pp.
Score multiplier: 1.0
PP wise - applies all SV2 rules
Who wants to play SV2 will play it and get pp from maps, who doesn't - fuck it, let them cry over slider maps, technical maps and any other like that not giving pp.
^The problem with separated PP ladders is that it'll force the community to fragment (which is honestly quite not a good idea if you consider the fact that in the end, everyone's playing the same game).
They've already put in a way to store the V1 and V2 scores separately, so the only sensible thing that they can do is to let PP calculate the scores into the same ladder.
They've already put in a way to store the V1 and V2 scores separately, so the only sensible thing that they can do is to let PP calculate the scores into the same ladder.
^The problem with separated PP ladders is that it'll force the community to fragment (which is honestly quite not a good idea if you consider the fact that in the end, everyone's playing the same game).Community is already splited between people who wants SV2 and who doesn't want it. Adding additional ladder for SV2 will just allow people who wants it to gain pp. I doubt you can put scores with 2 different calculation algorithms in same ladder.
PP calculation doesn't even account for scoreV1 anyways. The only thing separating the two PP-wise is slider accuracy, and that's not really much of a barrier to deal with (calculation-wise). As I said, they could easily just slap a slider-accuracy bonus to the algorithm and the ranking system could carry on as-is. Obviously they wouldn't be directly comparable score-wise, but we're talking about PP here.[Taiga] wrote:
^The problem with separated PP ladders is that it'll force the community to fragment (which is honestly quite not a good idea if you consider the fact that in the end, everyone's playing the same game).Community is already splited between people who wants SV2 and who doesn't want it. Adding additional ladder for SV2 will just allow people who wants it to gain pp. I doubt you can put scores with 2 different calculation algorithms in same ladder.
In the end, ScoreV2 is coming whether everyone likes it or not. The transition period is sure to make plenty of people butthurt, but it definitely would not result in a leaderboard wipe.
Topic Starter
OK, how would you like it if we got rid of pp on all new maps, huh? After all, it's just an arbitrary number, right? Why does it matter if your preferred way to play the game to relegated into obsolescence because new maps have a change in score calculation for no discernible reason? Creating a divide between new maps and old maps is completely stupid, there is not justification to change the system so the arbitrary numbers are calculated in a way that you and a few others like, while shafting and alienating all of the people who have played and worked on getting achievements in the current system.chainpullz wrote:
You haven't even fc'd every single ranked map to date. They have no way of recalculating all the scores and they aren't going to wipe all the scoreboards. So you are forced to only play the ranked maps ranked prior to the change if you want to make meaningful gains in the score rankings? How is that any different from people who play for pp who are forced to play bullshit spike maps to make meaningful gains in the pp rankings? Get over yourself. Stop letting some arbitrary number on your profile control your life.
We can see in the poll that less than a quarter of the people want this new change. Therefore, there should be no change. If there is, they should just do what Runescape did, and let us play 'old' osu!.
Considering 80% of the maps I play are unranked and thus give neither score nor pp I really wouldn't care.
There won't be a divide between old maps and new maps, because the recent updates suggest that ScoreV2 is happening to the entire game. And the reason why it's happening now is because osu!'s currently undergoing a complete overhaul (new website, new client, new design). With the game being recreated from scratch, it makes sense for them to (attempt to) fix things that would've been very difficult to change otherwise. The game is 10 years old, after all.
But as I've said earlier, they've already begun putting in the framework to allow the current client to transition into ScoreV2 without needing to wipe any old scores. If you consider the fact that the PP system has already completely ignored the current score system for years, this change won't even be that big of a deal to the majority of players.
But as I've said earlier, they've already begun putting in the framework to allow the current client to transition into ScoreV2 without needing to wipe any old scores. If you consider the fact that the PP system has already completely ignored the current score system for years, this change won't even be that big of a deal to the majority of players.
PP calculation doesn't even account for scoreV1 anyways. The only thing separating the two PP-wise is slider accuracy, and that's not really much of a barrier to deal with (calculation-wise). As I said, they could easily just slap a slider-accuracy bonus to the algorithm and the ranking system could carry on as-is. Obviously they wouldn't be directly comparable score-wise, but we're talking about PP here.Yes, I fully agree but I am talking in case where SV2 could give pp. Separate ladder could be good due score difference allowing people to still fight for #1 and not be "Supporter Only".
In the end, ScoreV2 is coming whether everyone likes it or not. The transition period is sure to make plenty of people butthurt, but it definitely would not result in a leaderboard wipe.
You don't change fact that community is already divided between people who hit 100-50 on sliders and expect it to be 300 and people who hit 300 on sliders and would love them to give pp.
With the amount of submitted scores and the years score v1 has been in place it would be a really complex and awkward transition. Also a lot of ppl map around the fact that sliders have no accuracy so mapping would likely change a tiny bit.
Personally, I think that if the Score v2 should be put in with some kind of "Ranked Mode". Leave the score as it is but add in main menu where you have "Play" add to Solo, Multi and have Ranked. It would not impact the game as it is but it would give the best players chance to fight there with the new system.
Tbh my only problem if it's going to be widespread use is the fact 1 million score is kinda disheartening in solo, I know mania has that too but I just really dislike it.GhostFrog wrote:
Make max score scale with number of objects or something.
Slider beginning giving 100 feels just the same imo, it'll make rip acc on slider spams map and even more rip acc if you put HR on it but I don't really see it being a bad thing.
This is one of the reasons why the score should be capped.
Yeah let's change an established score system instead of fixing how the score value is stored.Eraser wrote:
This is one of the reasons why the score should be capped.
The change isn't about the score cap. What's even the actual point of having large numbers? Satisfaction?
It also comes with slider accuracy and punish you for having bad judgement. It will force you to actually play to the rhythm.
It also comes with slider accuracy and punish you for having bad judgement. It will force you to actually play to the rhythm.
if they wanted to implement this scoring system, at least make it a separate scoring system. I still wanted to keep playing with old scoring system (because who do not like big numbers?)
yesEraser wrote:
Satisfaction?
The new system is going to fix nothing. The PP system is fine as it is right now.
This might be different for standard but for ctb, there is only a score cap without mods and spinners. This means you can get higher than 1 mill doing mods and if there are spinners as well.
They may actually try this new scoring system as on the wiki it says "Because of the combo multiplier effect, if the player exceeds a combo of ~2,000, the player's score will begin to count backwards. This is a flaw with the 32-bit signed integer where—in computing—the max integer is 2,147,483,647. This issue is currently being resolved with scoreV2 which is still being tested."
So it may or may not be added.
They may actually try this new scoring system as on the wiki it says "Because of the combo multiplier effect, if the player exceeds a combo of ~2,000, the player's score will begin to count backwards. This is a flaw with the 32-bit signed integer where—in computing—the max integer is 2,147,483,647. This issue is currently being resolved with scoreV2 which is still being tested."
So it may or may not be added.
Score V2 is not good for greenhand.
V2 is good the only thing i don't like is that you now need to get the sliders in the perfect timing as well which will destroy some maps and a lot of accuracy, plus making it way harder to get a good score