Eraser wrote:

This is one of the reasons why the score should be capped.

This is a problem for ctb as well for converts it has almost nothing to do with scoreV2

Cirno9 wrote:

The PP system is fine as it is right now.

Cirno9 wrote:

The PP system is fine as it is right now.

Yeah, sure...

Scarlet Rose nomod SS = 179pp

Just fine

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

aand score v2 would do nothing to make Scarlet Rose anywhere near what it's worth because the problem is slider jumps not slider acc

Potsosu wrote:

I think people are misinterpreting the score cap.

The cap is 1mm (million). That means every single song played 100% perfectly will give you a score of 1mm (plus modifiers, plus spinner score).

Every song played perfectly with one note missed at the start will give you less than 1mil (if no mods or spinners) but depending on the amount of notes in the song the difference between the score and 1mm will be larger or smaller. Songs with a lot of notes will have a higher score than songs with fewer notes for example.

Full combo still matters since as you go up in combo each note hit is worth more than the last in a quadratically increasing manner just that the amount of score you get is normalized to 70% of 1million for a full combo.

If you played a marathon song today that has 2000 notes your score would be pretty gigantic. The only difference the score cap does is normalize the maximum score to 1mm. Due to the weighting of combo (70% of score) and acc (30% of score) you can't directly compare scorev1 to scorev2. You can make scenarios where you could compare them though. If (pretend fail is off but no 0.5 modifier to score) you had a long map with 1000 notes and compared the ratio (low score divided by high score) of a 100% score to a 100% score that missed the first 50% of the notes, the scorev1 and scorev2 ratios would be the same minus some rounding error.

I wouldn't say the score is capped to 1 million but rather that your final score is normalized to 1 million. Relatively and proprotionally unnormalized vs normalized numbers remain the same.


Let me know if I've misinterpreted the scoring system though I only gave it a cursory read from the first post here (t/375428)

they made it like Mania

1kk cap isn't bad. I don't need to remind (or i need) about anime medley 22 min marathon, rankable map what cannot be ranked for one reason: score is going out of range and bugging at some point. 1kk score could fix this issue and... for every other map - save some database space.

animexamera wrote:

Eraser wrote:

This is one of the reasons why the score should be capped.

This is a problem for ctb as well for converts it has almost nothing to do with scoreV2

all modes' scorev2 capped the score to 1 mil. Why this is relevant is because of what taiga said.

It's completely retarded as it serves no good purpose and completely destroys the metric that I and a lot of people have spend working towards... oh let's just invalidate your 1000 hours for no real reason. Maps can have a 10,000 combo and still work perfectly in the score system so there really is no valid reason for it.

I get that anyone is afraid of losing old scores. But deleting or archiving those old scores wouldn't really mean alot.
People could still see how good you did in Score V1. But if you don't have the skills to replicate your score that
would mean you just got lucky in the first place with getting that score.

The scores you submit can't possibly reflect your skill really well. When you were playing this game you got alot
of skills and grew as a player and that's whats important to me. Don't give me that "1000 hours wasted"-bullshit.
It's not like they're resetting your skill. They give you a chance to show that you still have it. Yes it would take a while
to regain all those scores and there is always some "luck" involved in getting FCs. But in the end top players will stay
top players.

People hate change and that's why people are dumb. Your old scores might be lost but for the love of god you can
still play this game and reclaim your rank or just throw away your "1000 hours" and quit.

Just be more open on this topic already! If you don't want Score V2 show arguments.

Thank you

Amryu

So uh, haven't tried it yet, but...

Does this new scoring system make current scores and PP null and void?




If this screws over my rank I already hate it.

Edit 1: Added the the line above
Edit 2: Added more spacing between the aforementioned line and the initial question
Edit 3: Added the explanation for why I edited this post

Zangston wrote:

So uh, haven't tried it yet, but...



Does this new scoring system make current scores and PP null and void?









If this screws over my rank I already hate it.

It will be really hard to convert old scores to new ones if they change the pp system. I personally
wouldn't like if they did a full reset myself and at least carry over some scores...

You could carry over all your scores as pp and halve them (the calculated pp not every single score)
so you don't lose all pp, and the new pp scores will overwrite them over time.

If this really influences pp I don't think there is a way to keep your current rank and I think in that
case a full reset would be likely. Just please remember that resetting your rank doesn't mean you
are a bad player again. Like I said in my earlier post: Good players will rise up again and the top
players will mostly stay the same (Unless they ragequite because of this lol).

Amryu wrote:

Good players will rise up again and the top
players will mostly stay the same (Unless they ragequite because of this lol).

Yeah but still, I'd rather not have to work to get to my rank any more then I already do.

And if there's a full reset to the PP system, then I've wasted so much time and effort on SS'ing stuff that's not worth anything anymore.

True, but even if they reset the system your scores will probably be
archived so people can see. If it's not worth anything anymore it's not
that big of a deal then is it? I mean you still got the achievement and
you learnt alot by rising in the ladder so don't say it's "wasted".

Hello, I've selected the option where I think it still needs some changes. Personally I really like the idea of having a equalised score across all maps, it gives a bigger picture on how well you are doing personally and how others stand in comparison to you. In other words the numbers displayed hold much greater significance and are a lot easier to understand. The really large sums do feel rather arbitrary at times. But this is where most of the positives end.

I would like to start off with a rather small pet peeve, which are the mod multipliers. Whilst I agree with the increase to double time and hard rock (naturally double time is a lot harder than any of the other modifiers so I would expect it to contribute more), however there has not been much change to hidden and flashlight. Personally I would like them to be more of a clear representation to how much pp you are awarded extra for each mod. Whilst the ratio to pp doesn't have to be perfect, it would be good especially for newer players or casual gamers who are uncertain about how the system works. Naturally it would be more logical to have for ranking too as it will give a more true representation of your score in comparison to difficulty and pp. Although it would cause some shifts in the leader boards if it was to be implemented but I think that way you would be placed in a more appropriate rank.

Aside from that, the change to sliders I think is not very good. Majority of their difficulty is keeping your mouse in the bounds as it is and I think the added requirement for perfect timing will not only ruin certain maps that have slider streams and jumps (especially the ones that happen on 1/4 beat, the quick brown fox comes to mind) but also make it more difficult for newer players, (not to mention making it more difficult for mappers to make fun and enjoyable maps). Also probably my largest concern with changing the way the slider awards points is that it will not allow to carry over the old scores to the new system as every beatmap that has at least 1 slider (so in other words, every ranked beatmap), will have to be redone by everyone to achieve the true new score. That is a lot of hard work that will go to waste and I don't think anyone would be happy with that. Not to mention that majority are used to the current sliders. I found my self messing up the timing even on the easier maps, which I can imagine a few others can relate to. Also adding a mod to turn it off wouldn't work in preventing a full reset either and would be demeaning to the ones who preferred the old sliders. Having them with lower accuracy requirement also gives some breathing room, which is especially beneficial for some of the really hard maps and arguably is more fun

Now, without the slider change that doesn't have to be the case. Adjusting all the other features would still make it feasible to translate the old scores to the new ones with a few tweaks to ratios. Whilst it might be time intensive to update the whole database it would only really be necessary for ranked maps at first anyway, and it is also the only way I see anyone be willing to accept the new system. However, if that is not possible then I would prefer to see no change at all. If it is possible on the other hand I can see a lot more people being more open to the change since from what I seen most are concerned about loosing their progress and score.

Just one final note in regards to maps with very large combo potentials. Since a few have mentioned that they liked seeing very large scores increase with their combo I do propose a solution for that too. A visual mod to remove scaling down of the score would be fairly simple to code for client side only that converts the values to the way the original system would have worked (minus the mod modifiers, but hey that just makes the score even bigger ).

I may have an unpopular opinion but hey if anything I at least have shown a different perspective for people to consider.

TL;DR
I would only agree with the score system change if it keeps and converts the old scores.

Converting the old scores wouldn't be technically possible. Because you had to recalculate it from the replays which are only saved for the top 1000 on a map. It would be unfair for people for their plays to be rated worse or not at all if they are not in the top 1000. Besides it would take ages to compute all the scores probably.

Amryu wrote:

Converting the old scores wouldn't be technically possible. Because you had to recalculate it from the replays which are only saved for the top 1000 on a map. It would be unfair for people for their plays to be rated worse or not at all if they are not in the top 1000. Besides it would take ages to compute all the scores probably.

Actually, it wouldn't be hard to slot in a bunch of numbers into an algorithm and make it do its thing. One problem I see is for those who have not got replays saved internally on their machines it could be a problem. Also top 1000 is a start, it is way better than nothing and after all those are the scores that matter the most. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't mind loosing a C or B here and there xD although I see how it wouldn't be fair. As far as calculations go, naturally it would take some time to complete them all. With over 5000 maps most of which having multiple difficulties would certainly take a long time but each replay or its data can be analysed very fast using an algorithm. Since they wish to upgrade to score v2 I would imagine they at least have the resources to do so in a timely manner (although there is a possibility they might not), in which case question arises, why bother trying to upgrade to score v2 at this stage anyway but that's beside the point. Whilst the number would quickly reach really large amounts of calculations/replays to analyse it is not so big as for it to be inconceivable.

Continuing on there are two steps that can be taken that could be done to transfer majority of the scores (including the ones beyond top 1000 to score v2). Firstly, they can have server maintenance in which no new scores will be accepted in which time they make calculations and store it to an offline database to be updated all at once when all the scores are ready for the top 1000. Naturally this could take anywhere from a couple days to a week but since osu! can still be played offline I don't see that as too much of an issue. Second, would be making use of everyone else's machine to process it. What I mean by this is say for example you load up osu! all your scores would be non official but all you'd have to do is press a button that for example says "update and upload old scores to score v2". After which your computer does a bit of processing and updates your scores for everyone to see once again, this would only take a couple of minutes at most and would barely effect the ranking standing (although it would filter out a few inactive players, which isn't all that bad). It's also an alternative to what they can do if updating all the top 1000 scores server side turns out to be too resource intensive.

Now as mentioned before this is however a problem if say you reinstalled osu! or lost the replay data. It may still be possible to do without the replay data with just the information provided on the notes you hit etc, but that would depend on how much information is actually stored aside from the one you see on screen i.e. combo breaks, and combos other than the maximum combo. Without it, it could put those specific instances of scores at risk of being lost. However, that would be quite a minority compared to all the other scores in most cases. Some returning players may have to start over as a result though.

Also small note about scores other than ranked: I may have mentioned this before but I'll say it again. Only ranked and approved maps are really required to be updated to the new scores. Updating all the maps to the new scoring system all at ones is not necessary but it would be a possibility to do it in the future so long as the new system is really successful.

The question is though, is it worth to do this? Is it a trade off worth of having, to have a more readable scoring system? That is for everyone else to decide. All I am really concerned with personally are the sliders. It would be rather detrimental to how much fun I am having with osu! if it were to change. Now I understand it would raise the skill ceiling for most and make the game more challenging but I am sure that everyone can agree that this game can be really hard already. So I don't think it is needed at all to make the game more challenging. After all it is a game that is meant for fun. While it is a small difference visually, suddenly seeing a lot more 100's than 300's can take away from the experience it self, make the player feel bad for no good reason.

i dont like score v2, the cap is just stupid and doesnt let players whio play for score get a higher score, and slider acc just makes acc harder to get to those players who are leaning towards mingacc instead of bikkoacc.

Viperial wrote:

slider acc just makes acc harder to get to those players who are leaning towards mingacc instead of bikkoacc.

lmao

Acc is already overrated, now it'll just be even more overrated.

and slider acc just makes acc harder to get to those players who are leaning towards mingacc instead of bikkoacc.

You must be some kind of autistic troll LUL

scorev2 will make 30% acc FCs possible on most maps omg so looking forward to it

Reset- wrote:

scorev2 will make 30% acc FCs possible on most maps omg so looking forward to it

Quite the contrary, since you gain 'life' back based on what score you get. 100 gives a lot less than a 300 and on top of that when you complete a colour set on the notes, depending on if you get all 300's or not you will get a different sign resulting in more life. All 300's gives a Geki that restores the most. If you get some 100's but no 50's then you will get Katu if the ending note is a 300 or Katsu if it is a 100. Naturally they restore different values of life. Where this comes in to play is if you add slider accuracy you will get considerably less Geki notes which would in turn lead to faster depletion of health and would make certain maps that use that gimmick very difficult to say the least (maps that have a very fast depleting health bar if you don't hit enough 300's).

[Taiga] wrote:

and slider acc just makes acc harder to get to those players who are leaning towards mingacc instead of bikkoacc.

You must be some kind of autistic troll LUL

i dont have autism, just stating my opinion.

Asothin wrote:

Quite the contrary, since you gain 'life' back based on what score you get. 100 gives a lot less than a 300 and on top of that when you complete a colour set on the notes, depending on if you get all 300's or not you will get a different sign resulting in more life. All 300's gives a Geki that restores the most. If you get some 100's but no 50's then you will get Katu if the ending note is a 300 or Katsu if it is a 100. Naturally they restore different values of life. Where this comes in to play is if you add slider accuracy you will get considerably less Geki notes which would in turn lead to faster depletion of health and would make certain maps that use that gimmick very difficult to say the least (maps that have a very fast depleting health bar if you don't hit enough 300's).

tl;dr

Know your audience before explaining something.

Any drain issues can be solved with NF. I don't really care about having to use it.

Just that the idea of getting 0x300 'literal full combo' on maps with sliders (even if NF is a must) sounds fun to me.

The only thing i dislike is the slider thing ---

Have both scoring systems in the game. Keep the old one there so everyone doesn't lose their scores and places on the leaderboards, but put the new one in as well, and have those scores go to a separate leaderboard.

If converting scores isn't possible then that ^ seems like a good option to me.

I like the new system of the v2 ranking but it could because it makes it easier to gauge my consistancy on certain maps, I haven't really seen how it affects gameplay, the only I see is having the transition between the old ranking system to put in this new one, other than that though I have no objections against it

Finally got around to messing around with V2 a little bit. Overall I like the move to a more accuracy based system (this is a rhythm game after all), but the added accuracy to the sliders is a bit much. There is a point where you just have to be too precise and certain slider streams become way to difficult . As a lower level player the slider accuracy just feels kind of punishing to play with rather than just increasing the difficulty. Osu! is already a punishing game and one of the harder rhythm games out there in my opinion and the sliders just take it from pleasurably masochistic to unreasonably difficult especially for a less skilled player. Also being able to convert the old scores is a must. If I lost all or most of my scores, I'm not sure how much I would continue to play. I know I'm only a casual to slightly more than casual player, but I already play a bunch of different rhythm games and having to redo my scores feels like a major waste of time.

I don't understand this. The score cap is 1 Million. Okay.
How does it apply to spinners? You can get better score if you spin faster, even on SS grade.
How would it work on rankings? Great players can make some songs 100% with all the mods enabled, will we see tons of ex aequo million scores in rankings?
The way the game counts the score doesn't matter to me, but capping points is just ridiculous.

1mil is no mod cap.

If the Normalized Cap is 1 Million. Then every Marathon map that is too hard to beat with mods will have a Cap of 1 Million. You'd have to use a mod if you wanted a higher score than 1 Million which isn't possible in some cases.

1 mil is no mod SS, without spinners.

The Score V2 Takes away a large amount of points for ANY mistakes you make, including 100s. That's stupid for anyone who misses by a little fraction of a second. I also noticed with the Auto on, the Score V2 always gets a very tiny score. On Songs where even I would get 2 million or so, it will get 200,000 or somewhere in the area.
Also, 300s can equal anywhere from 300 to 655 as far as I've seen (That's the highest and lowest I could get with it)
For 100s, it can go down to 12, the Highest I've had one is 100, but that was the first note of the song, after that, it takes points away.
For 50s, it just takes points.
Then Xs take the most points away.
Basically, if you're not perfect, your scores are going to be terrible, and if you Are perfect, your scores will still be terrible

Assuming current system doesn't punish you for late game and misses in any part?

How about not judging a play with only pure by score? With score cap, you can see how far off you are from the max score. The score will be terrible if the player plays terribly, the score won't be terrible if everyone else in the scoreboard is also terrible. Don't even start comparing scores between maps because that's retarded.
I don't see any real drawback from score cap.

I love Score V2, only thing I don't agree on is the score cap.I like to watch the score number rise. But it's not a huge deal either way.

Gimme score V2!

B1rd wrote:

Seems a lot of people share my opinion. If score v2 replaced our current system, I'd consider quitting too. After all, 1000 hours of play down the drain once score is obsolete.

I dont think so.
Those thousand hours gave you the ability to climb the ranks. Flushing Ranks while keeping the system similar enough to the old one ( which v2 is ) shouldnt change much to your ability to gain the same rank as before.
anyways thats my opinion on the topic I myself dont think that this change is necessary though i wouldnt see a problem in my rank beeing reset since anyone should be able to reclaim their old one.

I say that it seems a little too late to change the scoring system. It would've made more sense to change the system 2 years in while the community was still small instead of 10 years when the community had over 10 million users. The scoring system has flaws but where score v2 fixes the flaws other flaws spring uplike the slider leniency. I enjoy the slider leniency a lot of other people agree because they've used the system for quite a while and score v2 is pretty much osu! stream and when I tried it the sliders felt too strict. In conclusion if they do change it the older players will have to shift a lot to keep up with the change and in turn losing a lot of players in the process.

As a person who decided to clear all ranked maps in osu to check how much score you can get from the beginning, the change in score is quite sad to me.

ScoreV2 on ctb=i quit

omg pls don't gooo ;(