Ohrami wrote:

_SecondChance_ wrote:

Im not good at scoreV2 so im going to complain about it.

Has nothing to do with whether or not you are good at it. My accuracy is apparently better than yours and I still don't like it. This sounds like one of those typical egotistical attention-seeking replies. I don't blame you, though; I used to say things like that when I was 17.

My main gripe is if old maps are changed, I have no idea how he will account for the fact that old players didn't have to deal with precise timing on sliders and new players do. It's not going to be a fair scoring system if some people have a handicap just because they played earlier.

Khelly wrote:

Tasha wrote:

Can't say I agree with this. There are plenty of songs that have BPM changes like this in other modes that require you to hit notes accurately during BPM slowdowns / speedups.

Why are you talking about other modes in relation to standard? They shouldn't even come into the discussion

Tasha wrote:

Because the concept is literally the same as other game modes? Accuracy is a part of rhythm games, it never made sense in the first place that sliders didn't have an accuracy check beyond clicking somewhere within the 100 window and following the slider for a free 300. I'm speaking as a standard player as well despite not being super high rank. Off tempo stuff shouldn't just be free accuracy because people can't time their hits.

Tasha wrote:

Because the concept is literally the same as other game modes? Accuracy is a part of rhythm games. It never made sense in the first place that sliders didn't have an accuracy check beyond clicking somewhere within the 100 window and following the slider for a free 300. I'm speaking as a standard player as well despite not being super high rank. Off tempo slider stuff shouldn't just be free accuracy because people can't time their hits.

Warpyc wrote:

People are so stuck up on old stuff and just refuses to accept change, some even try to threaten that they will quit the game or something like that matters lmao, we as a community should open up for change more, I really believe that this will be an improvement and wont change a lot, people are just overreacting so hard because "omg wubwub maps will be unplayable". No they wont, if you have a somewhat good acc generally that will barely change, if you cant click sliders in accurate timing like circles then you're doing something wrong, also people keep saying mapping will be ruined because of this, and I dont understand that at all, in what way will this change mapping, players will have to adapt not mappers. Also about speed ups and speed downs, I mean it works in every other rhythm game I've seen, why wouldnt it in osu, isnt it the same thing? For some reason people get anal when you compare games but its the same thing isnt it all games require you to hit the note on the correct timing. People should open up more to change because stuff will change. This isnt the only thing I've seen players upset about changes, ctb mappers seemed furious about a new editor for the mode which made absolutely no sense to me, but apperantly it will lower map quality and all good mappers will quit, lol. I really think people are overreacting at this change!

Thats my take on it, fite me!

LoliPantsu wrote:

lets all quit and not update osu guys

chainpullz wrote:

Tasha wrote:

Because the concept is literally the same as other game modes? Accuracy is a part of rhythm games, it never made sense in the first place that sliders didn't have an accuracy check beyond clicking somewhere within the 100 window and following the slider for a free 300. I'm speaking as a standard player as well despite not being super high rank. Off tempo stuff shouldn't just be free accuracy because people can't time their hits.

Have you seen the leniency on lazers in sdvx? lol

Ohrami wrote:

Or just leave the game the way it is, as the game that people have played for sometimes nearly 10 years

It doesn't make sense to me to change a fundamental gameplay aspect of a game like this. When it comes to how the game is actually played, it should stay the same forever. Adding annoying sounds when you pause or type isn't a big deal, but this change is.

I can pretty much guarantee that doing well in many currently ranked maps will become a test of retrying to hit those awkward (but still accurately timed) sliders. This won't be enjoyable for anyone. Newer maps would try to avoid this by either not mapping music that's complex, or by adding breaks or simply mapping simpler parts of the music's background. This is yet another reason why I consider the change unwelcome.

Warpyc wrote:

People are so stuck up on old stuff and just refuses to accept change, some even try to threaten that they will quit the game or something like that matters lmao, we as a community should open up for change more, I really believe that this will be an improvement and wont change a lot, people are just overreacting so hard because "omg wubwub maps will be unplayable". No they wont, if you have a somewhat good acc generally that will barely change, if you cant click sliders in accurate timing like circles then you're doing something wrong, also people keep saying mapping will be ruined because of this, and I dont understand that at all, in what way will this change mapping, players will have to adapt not mappers. Also about speed ups and speed downs, I mean it works in every other rhythm game I've seen, why wouldnt it in osu, isnt it the same thing? For some reason people get anal when you compare games but its the same thing isnt it all games require you to hit the note on the correct timing. People should open up more to change because stuff will change. This isnt the only thing I've seen players upset about changes, ctb mappers seemed furious about a new editor for the mode which made absolutely no sense to me, but apperantly it will lower map quality and all good mappers will quit, lol. I really think people are overreacting at this change!

Thats my take on it, fite me!

CXu wrote:

Just wanted to say that slider accuracy is probably much more relevant on lower level of gameplay than at higher levels, since right now they're very often used to make jumps easier as well as simplifying more complex rhythms in easy/normals and stuff. For most of the good playerbase: well, you can acc circles, so you can acc sliders.

How could limitating mappers be an improvement?

You can't click circles to the beat when the beat keeps changing.

(of course there are competetive players who will be rather encouraged but please, loot at us casuals)

Tempo changes come without warning.

You can't click circles to the beat when the beat keeps changing.

[Taiga] wrote:

How could limitating mappers be an improvement?

Explain me please, what holds mappers back from keeping on creating maps like now? Not all of them, just some.
Can you provide argument supported by valid technical informations? Which point of ScoreV2 kills mapping and why - one more time - technical informations, not some odd "i think it's like this". I didnt say it kills it. I think it only limits us beacuse we wont be able to rank maps with patterns that are based on slider leniency. To give you an example, look at this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/320722
at 00:48:136 (7,8,1) - you see they have 1/4 spacing. Now, what the mapper does is he emphasizes 1 with a stop at 8. Most of us wont hold 7 to the end and will ho for 8 instead which will create a stop feeling here. This is only possible because of slider leniency. Also, the whole map would play like hanzer doubles... I think i dont have to tell you more technical examples to see why a unique and enjoyable map would be ruined by this change. A bigger hit would be this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/409397. Its no so hard to see that almost none of the sliders are supposed to be hold to the very end in this map. They will still be playable but defintetly not fun...
Noone is limiting something! The situation is even worse than you think. Some kind of songs wont be mapped at insane level because it will be nearly impossible to creat an enjoyable map. Or at least very hard that only a few will bother.(and there is almost noone mapping 140 bpm trance.)
Mapping isn't a business and everyone knows this. yap but its fun. we want fun to be as much fun as it used to be. If some mapper decide to stay on his style and for eg. Priti or Fort will make another heavy gimmick slider map - with score v2 it's still perfectly rankable (unless non-existant "voice of community" aka council of ranking criteria decide that it's not then ayyy lmfao). wha? their maps arent heavy gimmick
Where you see limitation?
I have read Charles post and with some points there i can disagree like for example:

You can't click circles to the beat when the beat keeps changing.

This is false statment. You may have problem with sightreading variable bpm map but once you play it and you actualy listen to song and followed rhythm, it get's way easier to recognize where rhythm change, where bpm change etc. He also stated sightreading for the first time playing the map. (i dont really know what you meant here)

(of course there are competetive players who will be rather encouraged but please, loot at us casuals)

I am casual too, i am not competitive person at all into point where i completely shit at ranking, people who say "blablabla x pp @ x playcount blablabla u sucks blablabla" like, i can tell this kind of person in real life into 4 eyes "go fuck yourself and your shitty wanna be competitive behavior" - yet i am so fuckin hyped over this change because as far as everyone complain about sliders being huh.... almost unplayable after change? Do i get your complains right? Many, i mean, many slider dominated maps will start to be worth pp. This will actually motivate mappers to make this kind of maps even more. You are competitive then... and can still suck while being competitive. And you didnt really tell the reason why you are hyped...

I didnt say it kills it. I think it only limits us beacuse we wont be able to rank maps with patterns that are based on slider leniency. To give you an example, look at this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/320722
at 00:48:136 (7,8,1) - you see they have 1/4 spacing. Now, what the mapper does is he emphasizes 1 with a stop at 8. Most of us wont hold 7 to the end and will ho for 8 instead which will create a stop feeling here. This is only possible because of slider leniency. Also, the whole map would play like hanzer doubles... I think i dont have to tell you more technical examples to see why a unique and enjoyable map would be ruined by this change. A bigger hit would be this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/409397 . Its no so hard to see that almost none of the sliders are supposed to be hold to the very end in this map. They will still be playable but defintetly not fun...

yap but its fun. we want fun to be as much fun as it used to be

(i dont really know what you meant here)

You are competitive then... and can still suck while being competitive. And you didnt really tell the reason why you are hyped...

NixXSkate wrote:

Why not just reduce the leniency, why does it have to go from extremely lenient sliders to completely changing the mechanics of sliders, completely changing the way they'll be mapped?

[Taiga] wrote:

From long time people are complaining about slider dominated maps being not worth any pp - now peppy gives you opportunity to get juicy 400-500pp from Scarlet Rose and other maps like that in exchange for your skillset. If you ask me - VERY FAIR trade. Being better at this game for more pp from slider dominated maps? Fine, pls map more slider maps.

ShadyAngel wrote:

I don't understand the system deeply , or how sliders work, butI'm mostly concerned about sliders on 1/6 ticks.
For instance on this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/81557 insane, the are some circles in the first few seconds on purple.Kinda hard to hit, at least for me.
Right now editing those to sliders is fine, but I'll wonder how sliders willl feel after change.

Warpyc wrote:

Mapping wont change because maps wont become unplayable, at absolutely worst the player gets a few more 100's and 50's nothing else, people are still overreacting

chainpullz wrote:

Except mappers don't specifically have "not unplayable" in mind when they decide how difficult they are going to allow their mapping to be. They usually have a rough threshold of "I need to make sure my map doesn't exceed X craziness." This change will make patterns and spacing that relied on slider heads being lenient more difficult and thus more likely to exceed what a mapper feels is reasonable.

There have been several instance of playable maps that have been disqualified for having over the top jumps (ie. insert 150bpm 5.8* eroge tv size here). The issue isn't that such patterns are unplayable, it's that they are deemed unwarranted.

TL;DR "not unplayable" is not a good checkpoint for play-ability.

Ohrami wrote:

the current mapping meta was designed around sliders not requiring precise timing. imagine if it was made so you have to let go of the slider too, as many of the more classical rhythm games do with their holds. With the current mapping meta, getting SS on some maps which weren't designed to be difficult would be insanely hard.

The point is that the way people map is definitely going to be influenced by any change in the fundamental gameplay