Nice deleted posts

FL multiplier should be increased in the same way as DT atleast. Or should use a separate algorithm for that (cough cough my signature)
Spinner bonus is flawed as Full Tablet pointed out.
Everything else is fine I think.

winber1 wrote:

Khelly wrote:

I mean, if you're going to put in something close to a point cap, can't you just make every 300, 100, and 50 give a STATIC amount of score and let there be no cap?

that gets rid of the point of combo, which is a large part of the game.

i mean what probably makes the most sense is a kinda of combo cap which would limit the amount of score that could be obtained so that it's not exponentially growing, but peppy has his whatever reasons to do it. old score has nostalgia, but when it comes to competitions, the old score is terrible imo, even tho i still would like to keep it as the main type of score for everything else.

That would be The Taiko Scoresystem, where the combo-bonus ends with 100xCombo btw xD

Why are the People giving so much attention to the Sliderthing, that looks like noone even tries to click sliders in time.
And i really dont know whats the problem there.

For a normal player like me nothing would change, cause i try to click them in time and follow them, no matter how complicated that doesnt make them harder like before.
CS 3 Sidereading ...... cmon that goes way to far -.- stay focused and dont overreact.

I like the new Scoresystem because its more rewarding to players that goes with the rythm. Accuracy is way to underrated. Players shouldnt get that much score only due to luck of a high combo, if they cant hit the most objects in time, its a rythmgame so i would be fine with that changes.

B1rd wrote:

Now 15 minute marathons will be worth as much as 30 second easys? Ranked score will be completely irrelevant. Too bad for people who've spent half a decade farming score, it''ll now be all for nothing.

Also, the SS only players are probably gonna have a really bad day.

Personally, I prefer to see all scores wiped. It just gives me even more motivation to SS more songs than I currently do right now.

Uh, arguing for the sliderchange by stating that osu! is a rhythm game is kind of dumb. Like, yeah, it's a rhythm game, but it's also an aiming game. Just because other rhythm games have it, doesn't automatically mean it would work well in osu!. Some rhythm games have timing on hold release too, but that would really screw things up because of the 1/4 usage these days accompanied by jumps. And spinners aren't rhythmical, but we're still okay with that. Sliders are less rhythmical than notes, which is probably why they're often used in situations were the mapper thinks it's better to focus on other parts of the game than on just the rhythm, while still maintaining some requirements to rhythm.

The slider changes won't actually impact most good players other than on a select few maps anyway, since they're most likely already hitting them mostly on time anyway. Playability doesn't actually change in the sense that, well, if you didn't miss before, you won't miss now either. You'll just get an accuracy drop.

But using slider leniency as part of mapping is definitely a thing, especially on lower difficulties where emphasis with higher spacing often uses sliders as they're much more lenient on the aiming component of the game, and rhythms are also simplified with the use of sliders in easy/normals. To be honest, I think this change would impact lower level players more than it would the higher level.

My main gripe is more just how late it is to change such a game mechanic now. I don't like the idea of a divide between old and new ranked maps, where suddenly the game mechanics changes between the old and the new. I'd much rather see it apply to every map that exists, but if that's done, then all previous scores don't matter anymore, and that's kinda shitty too. Which is why I think people are suggesting alternatives such as adding it as a mod or difficulty setting to the mapper. That means these changes can apply to every map, without destroying several years of work put in by the playerbase.

As for scoreV2. Have you ever tried to FC a song with very good accuracy to set a really good score? If you have, then you've probably felt the nerves included at the end of the map. If something hard is at the end of a map, you'll be nervous leading up to it, and if it's in the middle, you might start getting nervous much earlier than on other maps. Playing under that mental pressure is a part of the game currently that wouldn't really be a thing anymore with score v2. If there is, say, a very jumppattern somewhere, I wouldn't actually need to attempt to hit all the jumps anymore, since I'd still get rewarded if I can keep a high accuracy. Missing at the end of a map is also no longer as much of a dent in your score anymore, resulting in the possibility to relax more during the end of a map. While a lot of rhythm games don't incorporate a combo based scoring system, but they also don't have the aiming aspect of the game to consider. Also, I always enjoyed the sense of accomplishment from full comboing a map, because that means you didn't mess up your aim anywhere within the map, but that might just be me so eh.

Scorecap is fine, but it should be much higher than a million, and shouldn't be technically reachable in my opinion. Just make the max score of a map increase slower and slower with object density upwards to whatever the score cap is right now. This way, you'd prevent score overflow on stupid long marathon maps, but still maintain the competitiveness on score-rankings (and yes, some people still care about that). And it makes sense that a map with more objects, would mean the player gets more 300 hits, and scores more points anyway, so it's much more intuitive.

But well, I think the main problem with it right now is that we don't know exactly how peppy wants to implement these changes into the game. I think for a lot of people (me included) it isn't so much the fact that slider accuracy is bad, but more so what it does to existing maps, scores, and different ways people enjoy this game (score farming, for instance). If the implementation is going to create a divide between the old and new, and/or the potential for a score wipe down the line, then no, I don't really want this.

But yeah, I guess I'm kinda just rambling.

And if slider accuracy is added. Please make a distinction between slider rhythm accuracy and slider aiming accuracy.

CXu wrote:

competitiveness on score-rankings (and yes, some people still care about that)

I never said people don't care about it, just that it's no longer a relevant metric because the community as a whole doesn't really care about it (compared to pp).

As long as the change is only retroactive score farming will still be possible, just not in the same way on new maps which will create a divide between score farming and playing for fun but honestly there are so many caveats such as unranked, short duration, etc. that you would avoid for maximum score farm that this divide already exists anyways. At least with new ranked maps you will get some score vs. the 0 score you get from unranked.

Also, afaik peppy has yet to state that he plans to cease support for score as a metric. The actual implementation could very well include a transform from map score into ranked score which then gets recorded on your profile.

I completely agree with everything you said on the slider part of SV2 though. The feedback on this change seems to be coming from 3 camps

1) Knowledgeable Mappers - against change because limits creativity and/or song choice
2) Good/Overzealous Players - for the change because either not negative affected by it or want to feel a sense of superiority over those against
3) Bad/Casual Players - against change because either ruins their ability to farm or ruins their ability to casually enjoy game

Of course let's not forget that osu! is a one man one vote democracy. Peppy is the man so he gets the vote.

Guess ill just have to stop playing online completely and never update :/

fuck this change

I don't care about ranked maps if pp will compensate for the slider acc, but please leave unranked maps alone or make it an option to play with scorev2 (slider acc) or scorev1. There's nothing positive about the change for unranked maps.

I want a score wipe. It will be fun to see everyone rush to start setting epic scores~

If this will be added (max score 1,000,000), then how peole would be able to get jackpot achievement (7,777,777 score)?

chainpullz wrote:

CXu wrote:

competitiveness on score-rankings (and yes, some people still care about that)

I never said people don't care about it, just that it's no longer a relevant metric because the community as a whole doesn't really care about it (compared to pp).

As long as the change is only retroactive score farming will still be possible, just not in the same way on new maps which will create a divide between score farming and playing for fun but honestly there are so many caveats such as unranked, short duration, etc. that you would avoid for maximum score farm that this divide already exists anyways. At least with new ranked maps you will get some score vs. the 0 score you get from unranked.

I wasn't trying to direct it at you. I just feel most people reading that would probably go "what is score ranking??????", so I figured I'd make it clear some people still care, just as people compete taking #1 on easy difficulties, or play EZ etc.

As for the score farming thing, well yes, but the thing is, you don't have to kill score farming, while still maintaining like all the other properties of scorev2. The 1 million is just a number, you could easily change that number to something else and just scale every note accordingly within the map.

TheRealNick24 wrote:

If this will be added (max score 1,000,000), then how peole would be able to get jackpot achievement (7,777,777 score)?

oh shit nigger

Can we just remove Achievements altogether

Are you a shit player who can only farm overweighed maps by playing them dozens of times until you get the FC? Are you sick of getting beaten in multiplayer by players that can consistently hold combo and carry their team? Introducing score V2! Now the traditional multiplayer skills of sightreading and holding combo under stress have been replaced with the pp farming metric used in singleplayer. We've basically changed mutliplayer to suit singleplayer pp farmers at the expense of the people who player mp in the first place! Isn't it great?!

...

I don't care as much about the sliders as I do about the combo change. Miss all the jumps but as long as you maintain autistic acc it'll be all good. On the other hand, manage to FC a super hard map where you only manage to hang on by the skin of your teeth and get 94% acc, no pp 4u.

But it's a 'rhythm game' so everything has to be about acc? Well have a look at mania, most players' top scores are 93% plays where they basically mash their fingers as fast as possible. Nothing to do with rhythm. There does not need to be a greater emphasis on acc.

How many people were complaining about the pp system besides a few loudmouth high ranking players who think they can speak for everyone else? Don't fix what isn't broken.

B1rd wrote:

Are you a shit player who can only farm overweighed maps by playing them dozens of times until you get the FC? Are you sick of getting beaten in multiplayer by players that can consistently hold combo and carry their team? Introducing score V2! Now the traditional multiplayer skills of sightreading and holding combo under stress have been replaced with the pp farming metric used in singleplayer. We've basically changed mutliplayer to suit singleplayer pp farmers at the expense of the people who player mp in the first place! Isn't it great?!

...

I don't care as much about the sliders as I do about the combo change. Miss all the jumps but as long as you maintain autistic acc it'll be all good. On the other hand, manage to FC a super hard map where you only manage to hang on by the skin of your teeth and get 94% acc, no pp 4u.

But it's a 'rhythm game' so everything has to be about acc? Well have a look at mania, most players' top scores are 93% plays where they basically mash their fingers as fast as possible. Nothing to do with rhythm. There does not need to be a greater emphasis on acc.

How many people were complaining about the pp system besides a few loudmouth high ranking players who think they can speak for everyone else? Don't fix what isn't broken.

Uh, accuracy in mania is anal at least compared to sdvx. I doubt you can even mash your way to 93% acc considering that releases have their own judgment on top of the standard press and hold.

Sooooo instead of Acc being worth a lot less then a combo, peppy's going to change it to the other spectrum? And we can't balance it why? Also, why are we trying to make osu like other Rhythm games? The entire reason I play osu is because it's NOT like other rhythm games.

Also, forgive me for being ignorant but is this also going to affect the PP you gain for maps? Also, is there going to be a way to avoid scorev2 if he decides to implement it into Solo play or are we just going to get stuck with it?

Edit: Also, why the f*** are we changing the sliders to make them more annoying? Personally I think sliders are fine as is and the way they are now allows use of them by mappers in more ways. If the change goes through it's going to restrict when they can be used (or should be used) thereby limiting what mappers can do. This will then have a side effect of most maps being way too similar to each other basically resulting in every map being similar and just having a different song. The argument that the sliders will be more skill based is a load of shit, it's just being said by better players so better players can feel superior. Besides, if you don't hit it in time now it's not free acc because odds are you're behind anyways so you'll either miss a tick, miss the end, or just have a random slider break because reasons.

Maintaining combo is still considerably important with ScoreV2.

700,000 of the achievable score is pretty similar to ScoreV1 (quadratic score growth while maintaining combo), meaning you can lose about 350,000 score by missing once in the middle of the map.

CXu wrote:

My main gripe is more just how late it is to change such a game mechanic now. I don't like the idea of a divide between old and new ranked maps, where suddenly the game mechanics changes between the old and the new. I'd much rather see it apply to every map that exists, but if that's done, then all previous scores don't matter anymore, and that's kinda shitty too. Which is why I think people are suggesting alternatives such as adding it as a mod or difficulty setting to the mapper. That means these changes can apply to every map, without destroying several years of work put in by the playerbase.

Hope everyone reads this

chainpullz wrote:

Uh, accuracy in mania is anal at least compared to sdvx. I doubt you can even mash your way to 93% acc considering that releases have their own judgment on top of the standard press and hold.

My mania acc isn't that bad. And releases don't stop the fact that you can get top ranks at 93%.

Ohrami wrote:

CXu wrote:

Which is why I think people are suggesting alternatives such as adding it as a mod or difficulty setting to the mapper. That means these changes can apply to every map, without destroying several years of work put in by the playerbase.

Hope everyone reads this

It's not viable as a mod since it can be attached to every map while still getting a uniform score multiplier (which is obviously a bad idea). Either accept the feature and its consequences fully or find a solution to fully reject it, those are the only ways.

The entire post lists ways to reject it. And I noticed you didn't even address the point about making it a map difficulty setting. Most new players probably won't know that OD and AR used to be the same. AR was added as an extension of OD later, due to players wanting more variance in approach rates and hit timing. If "slider difficulty" difficulty setting was added, all current maps could be given a value of "0", just like approach rate was applied to older maps as the value equal to their overall difficulty.

Either way, I think that implementing this change to all maps, including old ones, is a mistake. Old maps should stay the same, and their scores remain untouched.

That's not a bad idea, giving sliders their own od with the option of having them not count for acc at all.

Mahogany wrote:

Can we just remove Achievements altogether

No.



plz enjoy badge

Kunino Sagiri wrote:

It's not viable as a mod since it can be attached to every map while still getting a uniform score multiplier (which is obviously a bad idea). Either accept the feature and its consequences fully or find a solution to fully reject it, those are the only ways.

Like every mod in the game? I fail to see the problem attaching slider accuracy to a mod, similar to how HD alters visuals or DT alters speed, this one just alters slider accuracy so it matters. You could even add a difficulty reduction mod as a counterpart where all notes are either 300 or miss.

Mod scoring should scale with the map difficulty, but there's a lot of things that should or could have been, such as adding hold notes when "hold sliders" became unrankable, adding more difficulty judgement for timing in general, having aim accuracy matter (like dividing the note into a target, where the center is worth more than the rim), pp being a thing from the start, not having as much emphasis on combo, etc. But the fact of the matter is that it's been almost 10 years with these settings, and people have done millions of scores with these settings, so you can't just suddenly change it. What I and probably a few others want isn't just rejecting the idea, because it's not necessarily a bad one on its own, but the effects it will have on other parts of the game is what concerns me, and why I think a compromise where the new and the old meet in the middle is a better solution.

Kunino Sagiri wrote:

It's not viable as a mod since it can be attached to every map while still getting a uniform score multiplier (which is obviously a bad idea). Either accept the feature and its consequences fully or find a solution to fully reject it, those are the only ways.

In the words of the great Silynn "every map is a DT map." DT must not be viable as a mod I guess.

otoed1 wrote:

I want a score wipe. It will be fun to see everyone rush to start setting epic scores~

It will be the biggest fuck you for all the work players put in getting scores in this game all these years. I'll say goodbye for sure in this case

Ranked scores will never be wiped. This is true for every shitmap since the beginning that no longer meet current ranking criteria.

KukiMonster wrote:

Ranked scores will never be wiped. This is true for every shitmap since the beginning that no longer meet current ranking criteria.

Peppy will wipe it because fuck you he's peppy. He do what he want

He said that? I missed it ._.

KukiMonster wrote:

He said that? I missed it ._.

One man one vote. He's the man so he gets the vote. Welcome to democracy.

KukiMonster wrote:

He said that? I missed it ._.

He did say he had considered it at some point https://twitter.com/ppy/status/704950851257954304
although I can't really see it happening unless he wants to piss off a lot of people.

Change is a good thing. Change happens. Get used to it.

- Peppy upon deleting all ranked score

I like to think Peppy just implements "change" because he feels like it and pats himself on the back like he's done a good job when "everyone gets used to it" like they have any other choice.

I don't mind change. Here in New Zealand change happen all the time. But there are good changes and bad changes. Wiping legendary scores is a bad change.

Score wipe? ;w;

Raniemi wrote:

Score wipe? ;w;

Inb4 score recalc and you h ave a lot of SS's to fix.

The Topic Name was changed o.o

By the way i dont want that score system in solo mode, may additive, but not as an only option.
I want it in Multiplayer. Everything is closer and more challenging
Right now i have the feeling you can simply stop playing if the first break is about 75% of the map because it doesnt affect the score anymore.
Sry but have to bring an example of taiko score system in multi again.
There every Miss is a huge loss of score so you try to get as less as possible.
In Standart it doesnt matter, if you have 1 or 100 Misses. score is nearly the same depending on the Maxcombo. So noone cares for a miss after the first or an highcombo break.

I am neither a Score or PP-Farmer. But Multi in std is boring due to the importance of luck thats included, that should be replaced with consistency.
My Opinion: Less Misses > Combo <- i know that wont be fixed with the new score system but i think its going in the right direction.

And cmon dont try to make the meanings of other useless ,,want to feel a sense of superiority'' i dont like such arrogant statements.

The Sliderthing again,I think way to much worries about such a change. Noone cares bout Scores/Acc on complex Slidermaps, so they will still be played. theres no need for a discussion like that.

^ Uh, I thought scorev2 is already available in multi? Some tournaments use scorev2

Isn't it at all possible to recalculate old scores with the new slider changes? That would solve the main problem. I know there are A LOT of scores and that's why I am curious - is it possible?

DeathAdderz wrote:

^ Uh, I thought scorev2 is already available in multi? Some tournaments use scorev2

yes i know that^^ but its not in the normal multiplayer matches

Estaryo wrote:

DeathAdderz wrote:

^ Uh, I thought scorev2 is already available in multi? Some tournaments use scorev2

yes i know that^^ but its not in the normal multiplayer matches

It's just matter of host changing scoring system?
I played normal multi matches on Score V2 - that's why for me ScoreV2 is an amazing thing for what i am waiting sooo long.