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ScoreV2 will probably be implemented in solo mode

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182
Mofu kun
1,500 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Mofu kun
ScoreV2 is being released.

Place hate and/or love here.



List of scorev2 changes

  1. Max Score is 1,000,000 plus spinner bonus.
  2. 70% of the 1m is (combo / 10 + 1) * base_hit_values.
  3. 30% of the 1m is accuracy ^ 10.
  4. Mod multipliers are applied to the entire score except spinner bonus.
  5. HR multiplier is increased to 1.1x
  6. DT multiplier is increased to 1.2x
  7. During play your score may decrease to account for accuracy loss.
  8. Will be subject to further tweaking. The 70/30 split is arbitrary (based loosely on pp) and will be adjusted as necessary.
  9. Slider start circles now have accuracy judgement. If you hit them in the 100 or 50 accuracy range, that will cap the maximum score you can get from the slider as a whole.

Long response on how this affects mapping as well
Hey guys, this isn't only a gameplay change.

Mapping is being affected hugely by this as well.

In my honest opinion, this change forces mappers to conform to a style where sliders can't be used as transitions or flowy portions of a map. This removes creativity from mapping, and sliderart would be killed. I would like some mappers to weigh in on this decision too, not just players who might not understand the intricacies of mapping and sliders.

Please consider this argument before accepting it because it makes osu more like other rhythm games. Osu is unique in the way that people can be creative with their mapping styles, and that the slider is so versatile because of the leniency. This allows osu to have many different styles, and many different ways to map. In my opinion, this change shuts off many of these great styles. Maps like Neuronecia, Hollow Wing's maps, Skystar, many of these maps are loved by the community, and this change would be destroying the special and amazing styles that have made the game so much more fun.

Please consider this arguement before pushing this change forward, peppy. The creativity that this leniency creates makes the game better and more unique. Not worse.

Besides, why does osu need to be more like other rhythm games? It's unique and stands out as a niche. No need to make it more the same as other rhythm games. Because it is different, it stands out from the rest and becomes better.
Last edited by Trosk- , edited 5 times in total.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
Lol I quit
timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,305 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon
awesome
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
peppy
gregest
809 posts
Joined February 2014
gregest
reading is hard I know

silento
298 posts
Joined June 2015
silento
Acc on sliders? Fucking finally now osu can be a true rhythm game kek.

Don't like ScoreV2 on the leaderboards though. It's true strength is in multi to be honest.
Estaryo
90 posts
Joined August 2014
Estaryo
i love it :) cant wait until its fully there,
now i can play multi again without being at the last position with highest acc xD
Mofu kun
1,500 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Mofu kun
Hey guys, this isn't only a gameplay change.

Mapping is being affected hugely by this as well.

In my honest opinion, this change forces mappers to conform to a style where sliders can't be used as transitions or flowy portions of a map. This removes creativity from mapping, and sliderart would be killed. I would like some mappers to weigh in on this decision too, not just players who might not understand the intricacies of mapping and sliders.

Please consider this argument before accepting it because it makes osu more like other rhythm games. Osu is unique in the way that people can be creative with their mapping styles, and that the slider is so versatile because of the leniency. This allows osu to have many different styles, and many different ways to map. In my opinion, this change shuts off many of these great styles. Maps like Neuronecia, Hollow Wing's maps, Skystar, many of these maps are loved by the community, and this change would be destroying the special and amazing styles that have made the game so much more fun.

Please consider this arguement before pushing this change forward, peppy. The creativity that this leniency creates makes the game better and more unique. Not worse.

Besides, why does osu need to be more like other rhythm games? It's unique and stands out as a niche. No need to make it more the same as other rhythm games. Because it is different, it stands out from the rest and becomes better.
Last edited by Mofu kun , edited 2 times in total.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Osu is unique in that it's not simply just rhythm but aim on a 2d plane.
Mofu kun
1,500 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Mofu kun
edited and added more things

Mapping is a big thing, so please consider it.
moya
205 posts
Joined November 2014
moya
i love how the only people who like this idea are really good players and people who are really fucking bad at the game who havent played score v2 before
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
No parts of mapping are affected.
Having the player being accurate is ALWAYS the assumption made by the mapper when he maps stuff.
Sliderarts are completely unaffected by this as well, all you have to do as a player is hitting the fucking sliderhead on time.
People will just end up having less acc. That's a playerproblem, not a mapperproblem.

I also expect that the HP-System will be tuned accordingly in the future to make up for the loss of accuracy/Geki, especially in easy parts.
Last edited by Endaris , edited 2 times in total.
Multtari
88 posts
Joined September 2011
Multtari
Hollow wings and some/most skystar maps (neuronecia included) are made to be challenges and not pp farms. How is the change in scoring and slider timing going to prevent creation of maps like these in future? Only thing that changes is that the maps will be harder to acc and will be more rewarding.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Mapping will not change at all, i repeat AT ALL.
You are supposed to click slider in time, just now you didn't got punished for being bad.
After this get implemented, better start training how to click sliders in time.

rrtyui Big Black SS after this change still stay as SS, pepy checked this himself so no, i don't know why you cry about "sliders killed in mapping blablabla", all maps with sliderspam will just get more skillbased, nothing else.

I am personaly happy about this change, now i will enjoy true rhythm game.

And so many newbs spamming & brainless mashing 5* maps will get extremely punished right now, it's just juicy, omnomnomnom 8-)
Yolshka
669 posts
Joined April 2014
Yolshka
I don't understand these slider changes. Does this mean that , as of right now, it's impossible to get anything other than a 300 on sliderheads?
I didn't even notice while playing.Isn't that a bad thing then?
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial
I don't think slider start matters, if it was slider end then we're fucked
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Yes, sliders will only be 100 or 50 if you miss the sliderend and/or sliderticks right now, giving you free accuracy.
moya
205 posts
Joined November 2014
moya

Endaris wrote:

No parts of mapping are affected.
Having the player being accurate is ALWAYS the assumption made by the mapper when he maps stuff.
Sliderarts are completely unaffected by this as well, all you have to do as a player is hitting the fucking sliderhead on time.
People will just end up having less acc. That's a playerproblem, not a mapperproblem.

I also expect that the HP-System will be tuned accordingly in the future to make up for the loss of accuracy/Geki, especially in easy parts.
do u know any mapper that actually wants slider change? it kills mapping creativity, new meta is gonna be 0 sliders or od 6 on every map, and maps that could have been ranked then won't be ranked anymore because lolzz sliders are too hard!!!!!! btw mappers collectively put more effort into making this game what it is, and they certainly put more cumulative effort than peppy and his crew ever did. so from peppys business perspective of wanting to make more money with less effort put in, why is he working on something that will make mappers completely unmotivated?? he's literally wasting his time and money
RLC
Elite Mapper
1,006 posts
Joined August 2011
RLC

Endaris wrote:

No parts of mapping are affected.
Having the player being accurate is ALWAYS the assumption made by the mapper when he maps stuff.
Sliderarts are completely unaffected by this as well, all you have to do as a player is hitting the fucking sliderhead on time.
People will just end up having less acc. That's a playerproblem, not a mapperproblem.

[Taiga] wrote:

Mapping will not change at all, i repeat AT ALL.
You are supposed to click slider in time, just now you didn't got punished for being bad.
After this get implemented, better start training how to click sliders in time.
holy when people tell me what i should be assuming as a mapper :L unlucky
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Militari wrote:

Hollow wings and some/most skystar maps (neuronecia included) are made to be challenges and not pp farms. How is the change in scoring and slider timing going to prevent creation of maps like these in future? Only thing that changes is that the maps will be harder to acc and will be more rewarding.
It doesn't prevent them but they will look a hell of a lot different and likely less interesting. HW and Skystar are not ignorant of slider leniency and make full use of it to enable much more rediculous spacing and crazier patterns without completely ruining playability.

You might say that all this does is make maps harder but the end result won't be that maps are any harder. HW and Skystar maps won't magically go from challenging to stupid difficult. They will simply change their styles to stop using something that no longer exists.

The difficulty ceiling of maps won't be affected because that's kept in check by BN and QAT. The only change will be the difficulty floor. The irony is that the same people who are welcoming this change are the same people bitching about mapping homogenization.

If you think mapping won't change at all as a result of this you clearly don't understand mapping very well. I won't try to explain it in details as mappers like rlc, the people who make maps most affected by this, have already expressed concern at how this limits creativity elsewhere.

TL;DR mappers typically don't map for difficulty or pp. They map what makes sense (to them) and many creative slider uses simply won't make sense anymore.

Edit: speak of the devil lol.
Last edited by chainpullz , edited 1 time in total.
Mofu kun
1,500 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Mofu kun

[Taiga] wrote:

Mapping will not change at all, i repeat AT ALL.
You are supposed to click slider in time, just now you didn't got punished for being bad.
After this get implemented, better start training how to click sliders in time.

rrtyui Big Black SS after this change still stay as SS, pepy checked this himself so no, i don't know why you cry about "sliders killed in mapping blablabla", all maps with sliderspam will just get more skillbased, nothing else.

I am personaly happy about this change, now i will enjoy true rhythm game.

And so many newbs spamming & brainless mashing 5* maps will get extremely punished right now, it's just juicy, omnomnomnom 8-)
[Taiga], with all due respect, you say this with only 2 graveyarded maps. May I ask what gives you the agency to be able to make these assumptions about mapping?
Kite
osu! Alumni
1,372 posts
Joined July 2009
Kite
https://twitter.com/ppy/status/704942553171402757 this made it look like only the slider behaviour will be implemented

So is the complete scorev2 coming or just a portion of it?
Mofu kun
1,500 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
Mofu kun
I cannot speak for peppy, but my assumption would be that he releases scorev2 incrementally, starting with slider changes.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

xlni wrote:

holy when people tell me what i should be assuming as a mapper :L unlucky
Isn't it kind of pointless to even make a map or do a proper timing, hitsounding etc. if you do it under the assumption that the player will generally NOT hit on time?
I think it is.
If you're working in the editor you are mapping a future SS-performance.
Certainly you can take some things in mind for playability and to ease things up but finally your hitplacement will be an accurate one that is supposed to be played exactly like that and the better the player playing your map the closer he will stick to what you mapped.
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445
Maps are designed around first try sight-reading. This also assumes the player has not heard the song.
If the song has a BPM change in it, the player will have to adapt to that change somehow.

Just using circles into a BPM change is unfair, as there's no way the player would see the BPM change coming.
That's why you often see sliders used to ease the transitions.

Here's an example... Imagine if this map was circles only. -> https://osu.ppy.sh/s/65994


Sliders are used when the mapper feels that it's unfair to punish the player for accuracy.
Circles are used when the mapper wants the player to care about accuracy.
The ability to switch between it is very important.

I hope that makes sense.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Endaris wrote:

xlni wrote:

holy when people tell me what i should be assuming as a mapper :L unlucky
Isn't it kind of pointless to even make a map or do a proper timing, hitsounding etc. if you do it under the assumption that the player will generally NOT hit on time?
I think it is.
If you're working in the editor you are mapping a future SS-performance.
Certainly you can take some things in mind for playability and to ease things up but finally your hitplacement will be an accurate one that is supposed to be played exactly like that and the better the player playing your map the closer he will stick to what you mapped.
That's why rrtyui followed every slider to its end on his big black SS when you don't even need to leave the sliderstart to get credit for it right? Man such a shitter not even playing the map right.

Like seriously why are you trying to pretend to understand mapping and claiming to understand it better than one of the best mappers in the history of the game?
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial

Mofu kun wrote:

[Taiga], with all due respect, you say this with only 2 graveyarded maps. May I ask what gives you the agency to be able to make these assumptions about mapping?
You're not that much better than him are you now?

[Taiga] wrote:

rrtyui Big Black SS after this change still stay as SS
I feel like this is only because it is OD 7, if star difficulty system doesn't underweight these 1/4 slider i feel like V2 does have an impact on those type of mapping
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

chainpullz wrote:

That's why rrtyui followed every slider to its end on his big black SS when you don't even need to leave the sliderstart to get credit for it right? Man such a shitter not even playing the map right.

Like seriously why are you trying to pretend to understand mapping and claiming to understand it better than one of the best mappers in the history of the game?
Slider leniency exists in 2 parts, movement and timing.
Scorev2 only affects timing so why are you attacking me on the movement component now when I never adressed it as nothing changes for it?

You would better spend your time giving examples where timing leniency can actually have a value like Charles did and even for his example I would argue that it might not be the best way to make the player hit off-time to make him aware of a speed change.
And variable bpm maps already work with a significantly lower OD to soften the issue to begin with. Putting aside that I'm not skilled enough to keep up with the crazy jumps in Roze, the accurate timing itself on OD6 is not a real problem from my point of view and on the lower difficulties it is softened further by the slower approach circles.
Last edited by Endaris , edited 1 time in total.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Endaris wrote:

chainpullz wrote:

That's why rrtyui followed every slider to its end on his big black SS when you don't even need to leave the sliderstart to get credit for it right? Man such a shitter not even playing the map right.

Like seriously why are you trying to pretend to understand mapping and claiming to understand it better than one of the best mappers in the history of the game?
Slider leniency exists in 2 parts, movement and timing.
Scorev2 only affects timing so why are you attacking me on the movement component now when I never adressed it as nothing changes for it?
Uh, timing leniency is movement leniancy. Your argument is analogous to one saying that not following sliders perfectly makes you a bad player. I'm sorry if you are too ignorant to realize this.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
So if I hit a slider on time I have to perfectly follow it through?
No.
Fey
10 posts
Joined April 2014
Fey
These are all very good points, mostly the negative ones about mapping.

How about FL players, and people who have put a lot into getting #1s? RIP all those years of work because the system has changed?

FL staying at 1.12, and DT going up to 1.2???
Last edited by Fey , edited 1 time in total.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Endaris wrote:

So if I hit a slider on time I have to perfectly follow it through?
No.

Endaris wrote:

hitplacement will be an accurate one that is supposed to be played exactly like that and the better the player playing your map the closer he will stick to what you mapped.
You literally said so yourself but I guess you are too stupid to understand your own argument. Please don't expect people to take you seriously at this point. Yes, this last statement of yours goes beyond the point of mere ignorance and into the realm of stupidity.
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