JBHyperion wrote:

Reviewed some of the previous mods, as I feel that personally, some of the reasoning given was insufficient and needed further clarification:

I'm pretty happy with everything now except the aforementioned ending. No need to repeat myself or others, but seeing that multiple people are all complaining about the same section and you're best reasoning for not changing it is "I like them, it's a nice (unfitting, imo) rest at the end of a long map", I am unwilling to rebubble this currently. I would like to hear Deif and Sey's opinions on this first, and I advise you to discuss the recent mods with the involved parties as we have done.

Good luck.

Sey wrote:

I think 04:02:291 (2) - isn't snapped correctly, considering there is no beat at 04:02:702 - and to follow the actual drums better it should probably end at 04:02:744 - . Can someone please confirm this?

Sey wrote:

I think 04:02:291 (2) - isn't snapped correctly, considering there is no beat at 04:02:702 - and to follow the actual drums better it should probably end at 04:02:744 - . Can someone please confirm this?

BoberOfDarkness wrote:

Some suggestions of me

Nice diff
02:12:001 (3,4) - it would be better for me as slider instead. humm, i think being a slider the mini-break is besically missed :/
02:12:436 (4,1) - This pattern is kinda weird, small anti-flow + rush'n'stop pattern is not comfortable (to me at least) maybe try something like this? So how to fix that? 02:12:436 (4,1) - swamp their positions. Also curve (1) so it will be nicer to play. hmm, ok i will change the positions just in a bit

03:15:480 (1) - Droplets are easy to over-shot so maybe try to curve beginning of slider changed the position in a bit, now feels better i think :3

03:19:103 - Feel like you should extend previous slider to it (by adding reverse) huhhh noo, feel much better with the current rhythm x.x

04:36:204 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2) - 1/3 stream does fit but only for guitar, I swear every of those drums are missed 04:36:639 -, 04:36:929 -, 04:37:219 -, 04:37:798 - yeah as you said lol, i followed only the guitar, i dont want to follow the drum, first because would feels so weird in patterns, and the rhythm could be so confusing

06:26:639 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - I talked about this before, maybe you could change it to a bit curved or shaped in different way (I can suggest you This changed the positions, again just in a bit

06:27:436 - 06:27:726 - 06:28:885 - 06:31:204 - 06:33:523 - did you skipped those notes for purpose? yeah the rhythm could be so uncomfortable as in 04:36:204

Sorry if I am unwanted here dont think that, just i want to know why everyone want to mod this only when is bubbled ;__;

JBHyperion wrote:

Keep modding guys so we can get most bubbles ever placed on a single map (^:

Rebubbled~

1. 00:59:682 (2) - move the tail to x252 and move 00:59:972 (3) - to x32. A vertical slider leading to an anti-flow is a bit unpleasant, and the anti-jump here is not so significant. Also, the retardation effect of the verticality makes players "slow down", which doesn't match the dynamic rhythem and break the flow. Such sliders can be seen throughout the map, but not all of them need such fixing.
2. 01:00:117 (1) - move to x328 and make it like this. The curved slider helps buffering the changing vocal and make it not so awkward for its verticality (see above).
3. 01:01:711 (2,3) - http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4769940, move (3) to x152, ^.
4. 01:05:407 - This distance is a bit wide. 01:05:190 (1) - x112.
5. 01:07:798 (3,4,5) - imo it should be in a reverse way, that means (4) should be at the right side of (3) and (5) should be at left.
6. 01:07:509 (2,3,4) - make most players have to hold shift to pass, but the music here doesn't require such movement, and even it does, the vacuum in 01:07:653 - can be confusing.
7. 01:08:958 (3) - same as 00:59:682 (2) -.
8. 01:10:117 (3) - move to x336. If you are following the vocal, the HDash should be at here.
9. 01:14:465 (1,2) - Suddenly cut into a pair of vertical sliders. They break the flow somehow. 01:14:755 (2) - move tail to x112 can make it better.
10. 01:16:349 (1) - same as 01:00:117 (1) - , but in this case you can not curve it, but just make it more horizontal.
11. 01:32:146 (3) - same as 00:59:682 (2) -.
12. 01:32:581 (5) - you can make it more curved to the right to nerf the retardation effect, as http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4770068.
13. 01:37:653 (4,3) - you can make them HDashes; it flows better and satisfy the needs of consistency, since you also made a HDash at
14. 01:39:972 (3) - . My solution: 01:37:653 (4) - x168, 01:38:378 (2,3) - http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4770087.
15. 01:45:480 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - This part needs more works. It doesn't flow well, as it is slow-and-fast move-and-stop in a
16. strange way that doesn't going well with the rhythem. 01:45:914 (3) - x256. 01:46:784 (3) - x360. 01:48:233 (2) - x136. 01:48:523 (3,4) - ctrl+G and x264. Try it and decide whether it should be accepted.
17. 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - strange pattern. It looks like it wants the player to make some tricky dashes, meanwhile it is like it wants the player to stop and stand. My solution: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4770146 (make (1) and (2) more horizontal and (4) a HDash, may not be the best solution).
18. 02:02:001 (1,2,3,4) - same as above.
19. 02:05:769 (1) - same as 00:59:682 (2) - .
20. 02:10:117 (2,3) - same as 01:05:407 - . move 02:09:682 (1,2) - to x112.
21. 02:11:422 (2) - the hit is really strong enough here to make a HDash. My solution: 02:10:697 (4) - x272, 02:10:987 (1) - x96 and curve it (http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4770181), 02:11:422 (2,3) - x32.
22. 02:12:581 (1) - this doesn't flow well with the next object. ctrl+G and x176.
23. 02:18:378 (2) - x48, in this way it flow better with both the previous and the next object, though it may not be the best solution.
24. 02:35:914 (1) - same as 00:59:682 (2) - .
25. 02:40:987 (1) - curve it to the left can flow better. This verticality is too unexpected for players who are shifting into this new section.
26. 02:43:740 (2,3) - same as 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -.
27. 02:59:972 (2) - same as 01:05:407 - .
28. 03:02:291 (3) - same as 00:59:682 (2) - .
29. 03:17:364 - From here to 03:26:929 - , there are some issues same with 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -.
30. 03:35:335 (4) - move the tail to x16, otherwise it's too close to the next object and it doesn't require such a stop here.
31. 03:40:552 (5) - the anti-flow is strange, try to move it to x136, though it may not be the best solution.
32. 04:02:291 (2) - you don't have to make it end at 04:02:798 - . Ending at 04:02:726 - is fine and less strange.
33. 04:02:871 (3,4,5) - same as 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - again.
34. 05:09:827 - I suggest here should make a similar pattern like 05:08:233 (1,2,3) - .
35. 05:12:436 (3) - move the head to x272.
36. 05:39:393 (5) - move the tail to x0 to make it flow well to the next object, though it may not be the best solution.
37. 05:44:900 (1) - this HDash doesn't seem so significant, and its verticality..... move to x128 and move the tail to x208.
38. 05:54:755 (5) - tail x512.
39. 05:55:914 (3) - in this case this HDash should be stronger than the previous one at 05:55:624 (2) - , because the vocal is stronger, so widen the distance of this HDash. Move it to x464 and move 05:56:204 (4) - to x344 with tail at x248.
40. 06:00:987 - too wide. 06:01:132 (1) - x208.
41. 06:02:146 (1,2,1) - same as 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -.
42. 06:11:277 (2,3) - x360, or it is too wide to the previous.
43. 06:11:711 (4) - too close to the prev, x256.
44. 06:35:480 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) - too far from each others, and it's not so necessary for such usage.

BoberOfDarkness wrote:

I agree with Equim that aesthetic values of map should be increased and of course quality of some patterns could be improved q.q

CLSW wrote:

Disqualify first, and go through the discussion.

Ascendance wrote:

Agree, there's quite some times where holding dash is encouraged, and then player is forced to randomly stop for a walkable antiflow pattern. In the streams, there's also parts that punish you for holding dash (or as mbomb says, "playing correctly") and force the player to have to tap dash sometimes difficult or quick patterns. Just my 2c here, gl.

CLSW wrote:

Disqualify first, and go through the discussion.

Riari wrote:

CLSW wrote:

Disqualify first, and go through the discussion.

As of now, there is no discussion. Equim has posted their thoughts about specific parts within the map, they have not opened up a discussion.

It takes two to tango.



EDIT: To clarify, if posting a mod after qualification was all it took to get a map DQ'd, the community would be rampant with more 'blatant' attempts at derailing maps. It may not be the case here so I do not think a DQ is deserved as of this moment.

Natsu wrote:

Broccoly wrote:

The highest difficulty feels totally fine to me.

You guys are basically ignoring the higher-ranked players' right to fully enjoy the music... since they perceive jumps differently.
Have you guys ever thought about what you feel appropriately mapped may feel boring and uninteresting to those higher-ranked players?
And yes, I am talking about those players because that's the difficulty's intended audience.

I may sound like an asshole but this discussion is going nowhere if there's no input from those players.. about how they feel about the difficulty.

P.S. So QATs now DQ a map when someone mods it? lol

if this were a song that support the jumps around the screen I'd agree with you, this song doesn't that's the problem. Check Doyak example, will you think that's appropiate? no right, if you want to make a hardcore map then look for a song that allow you to.
And yes DQ are done to discuss maps now, DQ first then Discuss.

Edit: Overkill based on the music he is mapping, not in the map dificulty, you will no map a Jumpudding https://osu.ppy.sh/s/90068 diff, on this kind of song, map can be harderst as it can, but making sense with the music he is mapping

@Broccoly: Under your logic I can take any 100 bpm song and make a 6 stars diff, because top players will be bored, but we all know that isn't righ

2016-03-22 13:33 Equim: I'm sorry for that
2016-03-22 13:34 koliron: i will look that now
2016-03-22 13:34 Equim: if you have any question, just ask me.
2016-03-22 13:34 koliron: yeah i will
2016-03-22 13:36 koliron: can you enter?
2016-03-22 13:36 koliron: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/906421 DystopiaGround - AugoEidEs [Freezing]]
2016-03-22 13:36 koliron: 00:59:682 (2) - you said antiflow here
2016-03-22 13:36 koliron: huh
2016-03-22 13:36 Equim: I am
2016-03-22 13:36 koliron: where? xD
2016-03-22 13:37 Equim: do you feel 00:59:972 (3) - too sudden?
2016-03-22 13:37 koliron: lol obviously no
2016-03-22 13:37 Equim: it looks like 00:59:682 (2,3) - are not in the same speed
2016-03-22 13:37 koliron: is a normal hyper
2016-03-22 13:38 koliron: yeah that is because 00:59:827 - is not enough strong to have the same distance
2016-03-22 13:38 Equim: then do you think my suggestion make it better?
2016-03-22 13:38 koliron: not really
2016-03-22 13:39 koliron: 01:00:117 (1) - hum i cant understand your suggestion here D:
2016-03-22 13:39 Equim: yeah
2016-03-22 13:39 Equim: 00:59:682 (2,3,1) - are as one unit
2016-03-22 13:39 koliron: do you mean
2016-03-22 13:40 koliron: make a curve in (1)?
2016-03-22 13:40 Equim: the "expected speed" is not so accordant
2016-03-22 13:40 koliron: eh?
2016-03-22 13:40 koliron: why speed
2016-03-22 13:40 Equim: yes
2016-03-22 13:40 koliron: 01:00:117 (1) - ther rest of the sound of this lsider is so calm, following the voice
2016-03-22 13:41 koliron: you cant expect speed if there is not a convincing sound to do it
2016-03-22 13:41 koliron: :/
2016-03-22 13:41 koliron: lemme see the rest
2016-03-22 13:41 koliron: 01:01:711 (2,3) - basically here is the same
2016-03-22 13:42 Equim: a curved here is a buffer
2016-03-22 13:42 koliron: 01:07:509 (2,3,4,5) - a reverse pattern here why?
2016-03-22 13:42 Equim: no, in patterns, they are different
2016-03-22 13:42 koliron: i think plays good and, is not so hard
2016-03-22 13:42 koliron: considering the strong drums these movements are fine
2016-03-22 13:42 Equim: ctrl+A and ctrl+H and play again
2016-03-22 13:43 koliron: (about the previous, nope, are almsot the same Xd just with less distance)
2016-03-22 13:43 koliron: Hum lol, as i said different directions are not a real problem
2016-03-22 13:43 koliron: o.o
2016-03-22 13:44 Equim: no, it doesn't match the music well
2016-03-22 13:44 Equim: 01:07:798 (3,4) -
2016-03-22 13:44 koliron: why?
2016-03-22 13:44 Equim: then why?
2016-03-22 13:44 Equim: why did you put that way?
2016-03-22 13:45 koliron: still waiting to know why not
2016-03-22 13:45 Equim: okay, this one is just a suggestion
2016-03-22 13:45 koliron: its to vary with the movemevnts
2016-03-22 13:45 koliron: ok
2016-03-22 13:45 Equim: why do you need to vary here?
2016-03-22 13:45 koliron: 01:07:509 (2,3,4) - here is intentional, on all of then there are strong drums
2016-03-22 13:46 koliron: hum
2016-03-22 13:46 Equim: then okay
2016-03-22 13:46 koliron: because if a map is not varied, would be so boring
2016-03-22 13:46 Equim: but no need to vary if it is not necessary for the song
2016-03-22 13:47 koliron: 01:08:958 (3) - here you suggested the same as the first suggestions
2016-03-22 13:47 koliron: tion*
2016-03-22 13:47 koliron: and if you see well
2016-03-22 13:47 koliron: 01:08:668 (2) - clearly the tail deserves more distance than in (3)
2016-03-22 13:47 Equim: yes
2016-03-22 13:47 koliron: the voice is much more strong
2016-03-22 13:48 Equim: but for gameplay
2016-03-22 13:48 Equim: it is not so suitable
2016-03-22 13:48 Equim: a tail of a slider is linked to the next object
2016-03-22 13:49 koliron: to me, feels totally well, seriously a cant see that movement as a problem
2016-03-22 13:49 Equim: but isn't it better if you make it more pleasant?
2016-03-22 13:49 koliron: 01:09:827 (2,3,4) - about this
2016-03-22 13:49 Equim: and not so forced
2016-03-22 13:50 koliron: 01:10:262 (4) - is much more strong than (3) lol
2016-03-22 13:50 koliron: (and with your previous message, really the different would be almost impossible to notice)
2016-03-22 13:50 koliron: diference*
2016-03-22 13:51 Equim: I'm modding this
2016-03-22 13:51 koliron: mh?
2016-03-22 13:51 Equim: for make it look and play better
2016-03-22 13:51 Equim: none of these are unrankable
2016-03-22 13:51 Equim: but you need to understand
2016-03-22 13:53 koliron: im fine with the current flow, i will not accept suggestions if the result is not noticeable or dont make it better
2016-03-22 13:53 Equim: and I have to say I'm not a good modder
2016-03-22 13:53 Equim: But I'm sure it can still be improved a lot
2016-03-22 13:54 koliron: dont worry about that, i appreciate your effort to try to improve it
2016-03-22 13:54 koliron: huh lol
2016-03-22 13:54 Equim: and I think I am not the only one
2016-03-22 13:54 koliron: 01:14:465 (1,2,3) - is this a real issue?
2016-03-22 13:55 Equim: yes
2016-03-22 13:55 Equim: exactly
2016-03-22 13:55 koliron: why
2016-03-22 13:55 Equim: go-and-stop
2016-03-22 13:55 Equim: it breaks the flow
2016-03-22 13:55 Equim: even if you keep 01:14:465 (1,2) -
2016-03-22 13:55 Equim: 01:15:045 (3) - needs to be on the left of (2)
2016-03-22 13:56 koliron: first of all, is for only 0.13 sec
2016-03-22 13:56 koliron: i think that couldnt "break" the flow
2016-03-22 13:56 Equim: even 0.13sec
2016-03-22 13:56 Equim: may reduce a player's impression
2016-03-22 13:57 Equim: when they play for more times, the reduce will add up
2016-03-22 13:57 koliron: no i think no lol this pattern is so usual on a lot of maps, even in rains and overdoses, i played a lot of them and i think is not a bad movement, at all :c
2016-03-22 13:58 Equim: if there are more patterns like 01:14:465 (1,2) - in the near part
2016-03-22 13:58 Equim: then it's okay
2016-03-22 13:58 Equim: but in this case, it's too sudden
2016-03-22 13:59 Equim: without even transition
2016-03-22 13:59 Equim: Maybe you will complain why I only take notice on these small issues
2016-03-22 14:00 Equim: your map will be affective to following new mappers
2016-03-22 14:00 koliron: 01:16:349 (1) - 01:16:349 (1) - okay these are the same suggestion as 00:59:682 (2) - 01:00:117 (1) - and i explained both, the only difference is 01:15:914 (2) - and is not a problem :T
2016-03-22 14:00 Equim: for its star rating
2016-03-22 14:00 koliron: lol
2016-03-22 14:00 koliron: dont care about the star rating please..
2016-03-22 14:00 Equim: that means you have the responsibility to make it better
2016-03-22 14:00 Equim: no, others will care
2016-03-22 14:00 koliron: lol
2016-03-22 14:00 Equim: but now as far as I'm concerned, most patterns are not good to follow in other maps
2016-03-22 14:01 koliron: sorry but that argument about "your map will be affective to following new mappers" is not valid, is totallt subjetive if they want to follow my map and style or not
2016-03-22 14:02 Equim: how
2016-03-22 14:02 Equim: if they are beginners
2016-03-22 14:02 Equim: "hey, that sort of style can be ranked"
2016-03-22 14:02 koliron: yeah
2016-03-22 14:02 koliron: because can be lol
2016-03-22 14:03 koliron: until now, nothing is a problem
2016-03-22 14:03 Equim: it can be
2016-03-22 14:03 Equim: but do we map only for rank?
2016-03-22 14:03 koliron: in my case, yes
2016-03-22 14:03 Equim: your map reached the level for ranking, I know, and there is no unrankable issue
2016-03-22 14:04 Equim: fast rank, even for such a marathon overdose?
2016-03-22 14:04 Equim: I understand your effort and hard work.....
2016-03-22 14:04 koliron: 01:32:581 (5) - this is to not make an antiflow, some of these movements are fine, take in care that is an overdose, which players should have enough experience to can play these patterns, which also are not hard lol
2016-03-22 14:05 koliron: fast rank means nothing
2016-03-22 14:05 koliron: has 20 mods
2016-03-22 14:05 koliron: as a lot of maps
2016-03-22 14:05 koliron: just i recolected them fast
2016-03-22 14:05 Equim: don't mean to make it hard
2016-03-22 14:05 Equim: catch the rhythem, first
2016-03-22 14:05 Equim: make it funny and pleasant, second
2016-03-22 14:05 Equim: make it balenced with the difficulty it should be, third
2016-03-22 14:06 koliron: funny*
2016-03-22 14:06 koliron: ?
2016-03-22 14:06 koliron: do you mean fun
2016-03-22 14:06 Equim: maybe another word
2016-03-22 14:06 Equim: A ranking process doesn't only rely on the mods
2016-03-22 14:06 Equim: but, mostly, yourself
2016-03-22 14:06 Equim: testplay and self-mod
2016-03-22 14:06 Equim: it's a long-term process
2016-03-22 14:06 Equim: modding is just assistance
2016-03-22 14:07 koliron: yeah i did it a lot of times lol
2016-03-22 14:07 koliron: still i cant see a real problem
2016-03-22 14:07 koliron: lets cotonue
2016-03-22 14:07 Equim: no no no
2016-03-22 14:07 Equim: 01:32:581 (5) -
2016-03-22 14:08 Equim: a vertical slider
2016-03-22 14:08 Equim: no movement
2016-03-22 14:09 Equim: is it consecutive to prev, next?
2016-03-22 14:09 Equim: as the music is consecutive
2016-03-22 14:09 koliron: is not necessary follow perfectly the song
2016-03-22 14:09 koliron: some things for the flow are allowed, too
2016-03-22 14:09 koliron: the head is floowing it without problems
2016-03-22 14:09 Equim: okay, not necessary
2016-03-22 14:09 koliron: yeah, not necessary
2016-03-22 14:09 Equim: then what about those
2016-03-22 14:10 Equim: you mentioned
2016-03-22 14:10 koliron: even if i change the tail, the difference would be almsot nothing
2016-03-22 14:10 Equim: they add up
2016-03-22 14:10 koliron: and hard to od without anti flow, and here i dont want to add
2016-03-22 14:11 koliron: 01:39:972 (3,4,1) - ?
2016-03-22 14:11 koliron: 4 in x 160? D:
2016-03-22 14:11 koliron: that is hyper and hyper dont fit here aaa
2016-03-22 14:11 koliron: oh wait
2016-03-22 14:12 koliron: lol the next point is other
2016-03-22 14:12 koliron: do you meant 01:37:653 (4) - 
2016-03-22 14:12 koliron: is still dash
2016-03-22 14:12 Equim: yes
2016-03-22 14:12 koliron: is not hyper because i dont want to add hyper to ALL strong sounds
2016-03-22 14:12 koliron:  iadded when i can
2016-03-22 14:12 Equim: 01:37:074 (2,4) -
2016-03-22 14:13 koliron: but if i add in all, basically the map will be 70% of hyper xD
2016-03-22 14:13 koliron: oh also for that
2016-03-22 14:13 koliron: 01:37:074 (2,3,4) - clearly 3 deserves more the hyper than 2
2016-03-22 14:13 Equim: not 2
2016-03-22 14:13 Equim: 4
2016-03-22 14:13 koliron: than 4* sorry
2016-03-22 14:14 Equim: why?
2016-03-22 14:14 koliron: following the voice? XD
2016-03-22 14:14 koliron: 01:45:480 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - about this section
2016-03-22 14:14 Equim: yes
2016-03-22 14:14 koliron: the voice and instrument are so so calm
2016-03-22 14:14 Equim: oh why skip?
2016-03-22 14:14 koliron: why i need add more distances?
2016-03-22 14:15 Equim: calm
2016-03-22 14:15 koliron: the idea is walk there
2016-03-22 14:15 Equim: hdash
2016-03-22 14:15 Equim: ?
2016-03-22 14:15 koliron: yeah why not 01:46:349 (1) - is enough strong for it
2016-03-22 14:15 Equim: the speed, again
2016-03-22 14:15 Equim: it is legal
2016-03-22 14:15 koliron: is the only sound that  ithink deserves strong movement XD
2016-03-22 14:16 Equim: but not good
2016-03-22 14:16 koliron: why not?
2016-03-22 14:16 Equim: I don't mean to make those like 01:45:914 (3) - hdash
2016-03-22 14:16 Equim: 01:45:914 (3,1) -
2016-03-22 14:17 Equim: (1) is just a bit stronger than (3)
2016-03-22 14:17 koliron: voice
2016-03-22 14:17 Equim: how could they be so different?
2016-03-22 14:17 koliron: 01:45:480 (1,1) - both are hyper for the voice XD
2016-03-22 14:17 Equim: 01:45:914 (3) -
2016-03-22 14:17 Equim: is a drum hit
2016-03-22 14:18 Equim: with this 01:45:769 - space
2016-03-22 14:18 Equim: no distance, that's too awkward
2016-03-22 14:18 koliron: yeah, the idea is can walk there :3
2016-03-22 14:18 koliron: basically this and05:12:775 - are the only calm sections
2016-03-22 14:18 koliron: even in this second dash is neccessary many times
2016-03-22 14:18 koliron: be an overdose dont mean dasah everytime
2016-03-22 14:19 Equim: lol
2016-03-22 14:19 Equim: just
2016-03-22 14:19 Equim: you conflicted yourself
2016-03-22 14:19 koliron: ah? xD
2016-03-22 14:19 Equim: sometimes "not necessary to follow perfectly"
2016-03-22 14:19 Equim: sometimes "dashes aren't always needed in overdose"
2016-03-22 14:20 koliron: hum
2016-03-22 14:20 Equim: but these can be my views
2016-03-22 14:20 koliron: why cant be both?
2016-03-22 14:20 koliron: is exactly
2016-03-22 14:20 Equim: for what I mentioned
2016-03-22 14:20 koliron: that
2016-03-22 14:20 koliron: is not necessary follow the song perfectly
2016-03-22 14:20 koliron: thats why i didnt add dash
2016-03-22 14:20 koliron: if i add dash always when can fit
2016-03-22 14:20 koliron: basically the dash woulkd be used all the time
2016-03-22 14:20 koliron: thats not fun
2016-03-22 14:21 Equim: dash can be divided
2016-03-22 14:21 koliron: do not forget that we map for players, follwo the song is necessary to feel it correctly but minor changes like this are not possible to notice
2016-03-22 14:21 Equim: hyperdash, large dash, small dash, minor dash
2016-03-22 14:21 Equim: lol
2016-03-22 14:21 Equim: I mod for players
2016-03-22 14:21 Equim: since I think they are not pleasant
2016-03-22 14:22 Equim: most unpleasant part is 01:48:233 (2,3,4) -
2016-03-22 14:22 Equim: 01:47:798 (1,2,3) -
2016-03-22 14:22 koliron: the song is still relax :D
2016-03-22 14:22 Equim: are you sure for this?
2016-03-22 14:22 koliron: yeap :3
2016-03-22 14:22 Equim: the distance
2016-03-22 14:23 koliron: yes XD
2016-03-22 14:23 Equim: the drum hit so strong
2016-03-22 14:23 koliron: but the voice is still calm
2016-03-22 14:23 Equim: 01:47:798 (1,2,3) - very slow
2016-03-22 14:23 koliron: imo would be weird
2016-03-22 14:23 Equim: 01:48:668 (4) - very strong
2016-03-22 14:23 Equim: voice?
2016-03-22 14:23 Equim: do you think voice is stronger than drum here?
2016-03-22 14:24 koliron: nah but when you map you can follow what you want
2016-03-22 14:24 koliron: expect if is so different
2016-03-22 14:24 Equim: no
2016-03-22 14:24 koliron: i added hyper in 01:45:480 (1,1,6,1,4) - 
2016-03-22 14:24 koliron: all of these have loud voice
2016-03-22 14:24 Equim: you should follow what is the most representative
2016-03-22 14:25 koliron: huh, no, you can vary with that if both are noticeables
2016-03-22 14:25 koliron: XD
2016-03-22 14:25 Equim: but in this case
2016-03-22 14:25 Equim: drum >= vocal
2016-03-22 14:26 koliron: not for me :b
2016-03-22 14:26 Equim: 01:47:798 (1,2,3,4) -
2016-03-22 14:26 Equim: still this part
2016-03-22 14:26 koliron: i have no more ideas how to explain it again XD
2016-03-22 14:26 Equim: It's late now and I'm going to sleep after solving this
2016-03-22 14:26 koliron: hum ok
2016-03-22 14:26 koliron: then can we be more objetives?
2016-03-22 14:26 Equim: modding itself is subjective
2016-03-22 14:27 koliron: because discuss about some grids of all circles is much time
2016-03-22 14:27 koliron: v
2016-03-22 14:27 koliron: 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - 
2016-03-22 14:27 koliron: 01:53:668 - 
2016-03-22 14:27 koliron: 01:53:958 - 01:54:175 - 
2016-03-22 14:27 koliron: all of them
2016-03-22 14:28 koliron: is the final of the guitar
2016-03-22 14:28 koliron: cant have more distance XD
2016-03-22 14:28 koliron: also plays well, to me
2016-03-22 14:28 Equim: ...
2016-03-22 14:28 Equim: pls
2016-03-22 14:28 koliron: 02:02:001 - here hum you said the same, so i have the same reason
2016-03-22 14:29 koliron: is following correctly the guitar
2016-03-22 14:29 Equim: I'm not a BN
2016-03-22 14:29 koliron: and i think plays well, cant see the reason to change it
2016-03-22 14:29 Equim: that means I'm probably not going to "recheck"
2016-03-22 14:29 koliron: lol i didnt say it
2016-03-22 14:29 Equim: but keep in mind
2016-03-22 14:29 koliron: yeah im just talking with you about your suggestions
2016-03-22 14:29 Equim: it's not that all what I said was nothing
2016-03-22 14:30 Equim: still 01:47:798 (1,2,3,4) -
2016-03-22 14:30 koliron: no obviously, but i dont want to waste the time of the people who checked this many times for changes which are almost impossible to notice in game
2016-03-22 14:30 koliron: that would be so rude of my part
2016-03-22 14:31 Equim: I don't mean that
2016-03-22 14:31 koliron: 02:02:001 (1,2,3,4) - same as above. 02:05:769 (1) - same as 00:59:682 (2) - . 02:10:117 (2,3) - same as 01:05:407 - . move 02:09:682 (1,2) - to x112. ok lemme see if something of these are a diffrent case
2016-03-22 14:32 koliron: 02:10:117 (2,3) - what do you mean here?
2016-03-22 14:32 koliron: there is a convincing movement D:
2016-03-22 14:32 koliron: (for the rest, are the same case)
2016-03-22 14:33 Equim: I need to sleep
2016-03-22 14:33 Equim: too tired
2016-03-22 14:33 koliron: ok sorry
2016-03-22 14:33 koliron: the rest i will answer in forum
2016-03-22 14:34 koliron: good night!

1. 02:11:422 (2) - the hit is really strong enough here to make a HDash. My solution: 02:10:697 (4) - x272, 02:10:987 (1) - x96 and curve it (http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4770181), 02:11:422 (2,3) - x32. In this short clam section i prefer follow the vocal, and seriously i think is not enough to have hyper, obviously i started to follow the instrument since 02:12:001 - because there is no voice
2. 02:12:581 (1) - this doesn't flow well with the next object. ctrl+G and x176. ok you suggested me move this 10 grids huh, i played both options and seems and feels exactly the same, even if i put it more to the left, i prefer keep the dash here
3. 02:18:378 (2) - x48, in this way it flow better with both the previous and the next object, though it may not be the best solution. aaa that hyper would be so hard, im fine with the current movement, an hyper dont fit so good, for example try to compare 02:18:378 (2,4) - can you listen the same? i think no, the voice is still in (2) but since (3) there is no voice, so 4 is much more noticeable to have hyper
4. 02:35:914 (1) - same as 00:59:682 (2) - . ok i explained this many times, btu i all in game so, there you suggest that needs the same movement, that is notpossible to do because 02:36:059 - here the only thing strong is the drum (and not much) you need understand again that feels good following the voice
5. 02:40:987 (1) - curve it to the left can flow better. This verticality is too unexpected for players who are shifting into this new section. hum, i can understand your idea but the idea is when you are in 02:40:987 - you need stop the dash, not in 02:41:059 - or 02:41:132 - do not forget that this is a rhythm game, you need keep it corretly with al movements, walk, dash, hyper
6. 02:43:740 (2,3) - same as 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -. ok this not the same as 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - lol if you want to mod something please explain why, anyway i think i understand your point here, i prefer keep the direction of 02:43:740 (2) - first because the idea is not keep the dash, the next sound is not strong at all, and second because if i do it 02:43:958 (3,4) - this could be hard to catch
7. 02:59:972 (2) - same as 01:05:407 - . and here is wide yeah lol you are being ironic XD this is what you suggested before, but here there is a convincing reason to have, 02:59:972 (2,3) - the voice in these sliders are strong enough to have these movements, also, even if it wouldn't, is this a real change in game? i think no, the change will be 10 grids or something like that ): thats not noticeable xD
8. 03:02:291 (3) - same as 00:59:682 (2) - . ok same reason, even here is not antiflow as the first
9. 03:17:364 - From here to 03:26:929 - , there are some issues same with 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -. issues? you already said that are not issues, the change of them, again would be almost even if i do those 100% horizontal, aalso, jsut i want to said that those movements are not comfrotable, i tried to make them, are not better :/
10. 03:35:335 (4) - move the tail to x16, otherwise it's too close to the next object and it doesn't require such a stop here.
11. 03:40:552 (5) - the anti-flow is strange, try to move it to x136, though it may not be the best solution. ok basically the same as above :c this not improve the flow, and not improve the following of the song because 03:35:480 - is not strong at all, in voice or intrument
12. 04:02:291 (2) - you don't have to make it end at 04:02:798 - . Ending at 04:02:726 - is fine and less strange. this was disscussed with sey, the sound in 1/2 is not so clear, is between 1/2 ~ 1/16, so i prefer dont add there, the sound is not so strong so i think feels good
13. 04:02:871 (3,4,5) - same as 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - again. yeah again the same reason x.x the flow is much better being more vertical
14. 05:09:827 - I suggest here should make a similar pattern like 05:08:233 (1,2,3) - . is following the guitar correctly, there is not a sound guitar sound there, i think feels good without it, do not forget, is not necessary add notes in all sounds
15. 05:12:436 (3) - move the head to x272. why? dont deserve much movement, and the current dash is fine to highlight the start of this new stanza, in 05:13:016 -
16. 05:39:393 (5) - move the tail to x0 to make it flow well to the next object, though it may not be the best solution. that would be almost no movement, is inconsistent with what you suggested before, second i dont like put objects in the wall, and third as i see you suggested it to not do aonther direction, why not? is not hard , just you need keep the rhythm, again
17. 05:44:900 (1) - this HDash doesn't seem so significant, and its verticality..... move to x128 and move the tail to x208. 05:44:900 - voice is still strong here, and also the intrument is so different and acute here, i think this is a good way to highlight it
18. 05:54:755 (5) - tail x512. again, i dont like put objects in the wall, second as i said, in my opinion feels totally good, is not an important issue and the change is not so much, try to respect my style and what i want to use in my map if is not a real issue, please
19. 05:55:914 (3) - in this case this HDash should be stronger than the previous one at 05:55:624 (2) - , because the vocal is stronger, so widen the distance of this HDash. Move it to x464 and move 05:56:204 (4) - to x344 with tail at x248. you put this in "recommended" so you are like you want me to follow perfectly the song, yeah maybe could be better with more distance, but really is so noticeable at play to be an issue?
20. 06:00:987 - too wide. 06:01:132 (1) - x208. if i do that, the movement would be almsot nothing between (6,1)
21. 06:02:146 (1,2,1) - same as 01:53:451 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -. already a lot of sliders ahve curves, i cant put without? are to vary more, also are fun and the flow is bad to me
22. 06:11:277 (2,3) - x360, or it is too wide to the previous. hum, the pattern would be broken with that and if i add only walk to 06:11:277 (2) - feels not better because there is a strong drum, keep the dash is better to me
23. 06:11:711 (4) - too close to the prev, x256. if i put it more to the middle, i cant do a strong hyper to 06:09:538 (1) - which i think is so necessary for that strong sound in voice and instrument
24. 06:35:480 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) - too far from each others, and it's not so necessary for such usage. Yeah maybe is not the best way to map here, but still the song is followed feel to the strong notes in 06:35:769 (1,4) - and if i add notes in those 1/4 the pattern wouldn0t be so good, 1/4 normal dash are so weird, at least i dont like them for patern like this, sometimes can fit but i think here not much

koliron wrote:

seems like you want me to waste the time of people who checked this (many times), that would be so rude of me

1. 02:18:378 (2) - x48, in this way it flow better with both the previous and the next object, though it may not be the best solution. aaa that hyper would be so hard, im fine with the current movement, an hyper dont fit so good, for example try to compare 02:18:378 (2,4) - can you listen the same? i think no, the voice is still in (2) but since (3) there is no voice, so 4 is much more noticeable to have hyper Yeah I can hear the same sound there, because you've been using the same sound for hyperdashes (a sound that has no correlation to vocal, but instead to the background noise) but for some reason remove the hyper here, and then give a response that it's because of the vocal? Then you also say it's "too hard" for a hyperdash, when you have nearly wall-to-wall hypers everywhere in this map? Why is 02:17:943 (1,2) - walking distance anyways? Even if you don't want the hyper, a dash here is clearly sufficient if you've given almost every other noise of the same feedback a hyperdash anyways?
2. 02:40:987 (1) - curve it to the left can flow better. This verticality is too unexpected for players who are shifting into this new section. hum, i can understand your idea but the idea is when you are in 02:40:987 - you need stop the dash, not in 02:41:059 - or 02:41:132 - do not forget that this is a rhythm game, you need keep it corretly with al movements, walk, dash, hyper Really? "This is a rhythm game" is the best argument here? Even in your other argument, it makes no sense. Why should you stop a dash there anyways, if you have that much emphasis on it? At least in a left flowing slider, (which would be much better anyways out of an almost wall-to-wall hyperdash from 02:40:697 (6) - and into 02:41:422 (2) - (which should be more horizontal imo because it plays quite awkwardly like a straight slider), there is no point in declining it if you plan on giving it the emphasis you give it and still forcing a stop dash.
3. 03:35:335 (4) - move the tail to x16, otherwise it's too close to the next object and it doesn't require such a stop here. You didn't even reply to this one? Why? This was a good suggestion that amplified the flow of the map by not having a random vertical slider, and it wasn't even given the time of day To me, it feels like you quickly replied to these comments in order to not get it dq'd.
4. 02:59:972 (2) - same as 01:05:407 - . and here is wide yeah lol you are being ironic XD this is what you suggested before, but here there is a convincing reason to have, 02:59:972 (2,3) - the voice in these sliders are strong enough to have these movements, also, even if it wouldn't, is this a real change in game? i think no, the change will be 10 grids or something like that ): thats not noticeable xD ??? Not only is the flow at 03:00:262 (3,1,2) - awful, but you gave the reasoning that it wouldn't show a change in game. Even more, "10 grids" being an unnoticeable change sure made a big difference when I tried it, because it felt much better if you decide to move that (1) to the right side to make up for the abysmal flow.

Shiirn wrote:

I can't really find a nicer way to put this.
I really tried, so all I can say is that I really don't mean this to be offensive.
But...

Just because you're able to explain your reasoning, doesn't make your reasoning right. And you already know this.

I'm fine if you come out and say "I want to make it really hard so it gets played a lot by pp farmers" or whatever. I'm just not fine with you lying about it. And I think that's partially why you're getting so much flak for it.

Ascendance wrote:

let's keep this thread drama free, everyone. Let's not be disrespectful to the creator's map and try to handle things peacefully and respectfully.

Kurokami wrote:

Koliron requested the disqualification. Go on and improve those jumps. /o/