I feel that is a misconception of my intention with the thread, as I said this is meant for discussion rather than straight up criticism. If i was only looking for criticism, I would have simply typed the link to the map threat and "mod ples".
Okoratu wrote:then why do you ask for opinions if you only value your own and defend against everyone who thinks differently?
Like all you did so far was saying that you find your map fun to play, hurray. I don't think your mindset in combination with this thread makes sense as you're actively looking for citicism with this thread and then tell everyone who brings forward arguments to basically go away lol.
As this is for discussion, it's fairly obvious that I have already formed my opinion on the matter, and it will probably take a lot to change it. However, I don't think that's a reason not to discuss it. I obviously hope to influence the opinion of others, and perhaps I will change my opinion as well.
Furthermore, I don't think there's any discussion of the issue (or what I consider an issue), that some "trends" or "unwritten rules" can make people think poorly about an otherwise good map, and maybe even discourage mappers to experiment with their mapping.
And if it looks like I'm somehow trying to discourage further discussion, I'm very sorry, since that is definitely not the case. Honestly, I was waiting and hoping winber would respond to my points in my last reply. I'm always willing to discuss things further, even if I don't agree.
to answer your few questionsI've honestly already gone a bit away from that idea, since, in all honesty, I don't think I can improve much on the Velvet Green map by using more common mapping techniques/ideas. I'd rather just keep mapping the way I do, and hopefully it will evolve naturally that way.
1. I feel like if I understand "regular" mapping better, i might be able to apply this knowledge to my "punk maps".
Idk maybe once you understand regular mapping better you will stop making punk maps
2. A lot of people, after playing the "punk maps", will assume i have no idea what I'm doing. If I make a bunch of normal maps, or maybe even get a few ranked, I can at least point to them.Thanks!
1: Do you think anybody else, besides me, would consider my map fun to play, or am I just weird...?As I've said, everything in the map makes sense to me (I've even considered making a video going over every single note), however I've come to terms with, that it doesn't make sense to a lot of other people. I will still try to explain why it makes sense, and I will also take criticism, as long as it doesn't just point out what is bad, but also WHY it is bad. But I do understand that ultimately I can't force people to like the map, like people can't force me to dislike it. I do feel, though, that me wanting to share something I'm proud of, with people that hopefully likes it the same way as I do is only natural.
There are a few people who enjoy clicking literally random objects (don't defend your map, if someone plays it and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to them that's their opinion), I'm not one of them.
2: Do we sometimes focus too much on what is considered "good mapping" rather than what is actually fun to play?What I mean with this question is more like: "can a map be fun even if it does not follow "good mapping". What I mean is, if you mod something, and you see something that doesn't look like good mapping, you might look at it and think "that's bad", however when playing it, it turns out that it actually works.
Good mapping and fun to play should never cancel each other out, if you make something you find boring under the concepts you grasp as good mapping you're doing something wrong.
Or if you are a mapper, you might focus more on what is "good mapping", while you could perhaps have done something a bit out of the ordinary, that wound perhaps work even better.
3: Can maps that don't follow these "rules" be fun to play anyway; are there anything that objectively makes a mad good or bad, or is mapping entirely subjective?Kinda, but kinda not. We like to think that all art forms are purely subjective, but there are always things that will be considered "better art". For beatmapping, an example could be, if the map isn't timed properly. Most people would agree, that that is a "bad beatmap". How far does these rules go, before it becomes subjective? If a map follows good flow and good spacing, chances are, it will probably be considered a good map, however can a map that doesn't follow good flow and spacing, be good as well, or even as good or better? That's my opinion anyway
You're asking if art is entirely subjective..?
4: Is it important to know how to follow the rules, even if your usual style is consistently breaking them?I would disagree, I would say there are some unwritten "rules of good mapping". There's an entire page on the wiki, with mapping techniques you can apply to your maps, that are considered "good", or at least "not bad". There are a few forum posts dedicated to what is considered "good flow" and what isn't.
The basic rules, if you're referring to the ranking criteria it would ideally only tell you how to make a non-broken map. Most of the rules and disqualifications happen for a reason, like they developed throughout years and are actually in a process of a major overhaul. If you refer to >rules of good mapping<, these don't exist, to each their own. Some people love some mappers while others absolutely hate them and they still get stuff ranked.
For an example of these rules in action, I'll refer to Xexxar's map My hero t/397698/start=180. This map (as you probably know) was disqualified, one of the reasons being, the hardest difficulty is too hard, and thus doesn't fit the song. That's a very arbitrary reason in my opinion; I personally found it to fit the song quite well, and as was also pointed out, difficulty is subjective, depending on who is playing the map. However, it seemed like a lot of people agreed, that the map was simply too hard. To me, there didn't really seem to be any reason for this, apart from that's just the way it is: hence why I think it's kind of an unwritten rule.
But I guess my main argument really boils down to this: There are a lot of unwritten rules, but there seems to be more "dos" than "don'ts" (apart from the example above). My question is, though, is a map that doesn't do the "dos" always bad?
Thank you for you response btw, this is more the kind of discussion I was hoping to get with this thread.