suzumu feat.soraru - Zetsubousei: Hero Chiryouyaku The Anima · forum

Nardoxyribonucleic

osu! Alumni

Joined May 2011

Nardoxyribonucleic 2017-05-17T12:23:00+00:00

Hello Stefan, I would like to give some suggestions regarding note structure and the lack of rest moments in Muzukashii.

[Muzukashii]

From 00:32:955 to 01:24:906 - there is no 2/1 break within this 52-second pattern chain, which would be a bit demanding for intermediate players.
00:33:979 - consider adding d here to follow the vocal as you did at 00:29:296 - for pattern consistency ?
00:57:979 (244) - maybe k to reflect the pitch decrease across 00:57:979 (244,245,246) - ?
01:06:467 - similar to 00:33:979 - , you may add d here to keep it the same as 00:57:101 (239) - . In this way the kiai would be more intuitive to play.
01:14:809 (316) - you may start this slider at 01:14:955 - to leave a 2/1 break as the kiai ends. This could help players to recover from the relatively dense kiai and prepare for the next patterns. You may do the same for Futsuu if you agree with this.

The mapset is good in general and the intention to give 2/1 rest moments is known as evidenced by 00:28:711 and 00:32:370 - , but I think you can consider doing that as well in the rest of the difficulty. Let me know if you want to make changes.

Stefan

Global Moderator

10,393 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

Stefan 2017-05-17T12:52:55+00:00

For the points relating to the lack of 2/1 breaks: I do agree that the Muzukashii difficulty has very few 2/1 breaks, however.. The map uses 2/2 breaks (I am unsure if that's the correct definition, just check the distance between parts like 01:14:370 (229,230) - or 01:13:199 (224,225) - in case I am wrong). The nature of the song works much better with that sort of break, you were mentioning about 00:28:711 and 00:32:370 - while these two parts are exceptions for the song where 2/1 breaks works better than 2/2 breaks.

For 00:33:979 - I see the reason, yet I consider to skip this note because the flow sounds more natural from my side. I also find that 00:28:711 - 00:33:248 - and 00:33:394 - 00:37:931 - plays differently from the vocal follow may be appropriate to be mapped slightly different in a Muzukashii difficulty.

01:06:467 - works similar to 00:33:979 - but additionally I wanted to have a brighter break (by having nothing on 01:06:467 - ) and some rest time from 01:05:296 (272,273,274,275,276,277,278) - .

For 00:57:979 (244) - I find the way I've mapped with switching d k notes (00:57:540 (240,241,242,243,244,245) - for example) good, vocals have a higher tone on 00:58:272 (244) - instead of 00:57:979 (243) - and d k d emphasize it better for my case.

Nardoxyribonucleic

osu! Alumni

3,008 posts

Joined May 2011

Nardoxyribonucleic 2017-05-17T13:43:52+00:00

Disqualified upon creator's request to transform the set into ENHIX for a more balanced spread after some discussion with Stefan.

IRC log with Stefan, May 17, 2017

20:53 Stefan: \o
20:54 Nardoxyribonucleic: o/
20:54 Stefan: p/6019881 Just replied back
20:54 Stefan: If there's anything else, let me know
20:55 Nardoxyribonucleic: 3/2 breaks like 01:14:370 - and 1/1 gap like 01:13:199 - are not effective breaks for Muzukashii due to its length
20:55 Nardoxyribonucleic: as the main snap is 1/2+1/4 in Muzukashii
20:56 Nardoxyribonucleic: or 1/1+1/2 with occasionally 1/4
20:57 Nardoxyribonucleic: so 1/1 is not regarded as a break, but a connection in a pattern chain
20:57 Stefan: 3/2 is what works better for this song, and I do agree for 1/1
20:57 Stefan: But considering that Oni is also pretty dense some balancing between all three difficulties (Futsuu~Oni) needs to exist
20:59 Stefan: Breaks do exist enough in Muzukashii imo and stays in contrast to Oni
21:01 Stefan: The song works a lot with 1/2 rhythm, vocal and bgm wise
21:01 Stefan: That's why I've used 3/2 breaks, because these are the most natural breaks for such a song
21:02 Stefan: but not too big that sounds unnatural again
21:02 Stefan: but also not too close that it makes too dense.
21:05 Nardoxyribonucleic: My main point is that a 3/2 gap is not long enough to count as an effective break for this level of difficulty. I do agree that the song itself favours such a pattern arrangement, but gameplay-wise 3/2 is still continuous
21:06 Nardoxyribonucleic: Take 01:15:540 - 01:24:906 - this session as an example, these breaks still keep you busy in preparing the next patterns without having a true rest
21:07 Stefan: I don't see how 3/2 breaks aren't but 2/1 are.
21:07 Nardoxyribonucleic: Probably due to the length itself as well as the change in polarity of ticks
21:07 Stefan: https://derpovic.s-ul.eu/JgNOzXh5.png to https://derpovic.s-ul.eu/QxPuVow5.png
21:08 Stefan: second provides for that case something more complicated after the break
21:08 Stefan: While first is easier but more constant to play.
21:08 Nardoxyribonucleic: That is not complicated as the first one. 1/2 notes are something expected in this difficulty
21:08 Nardoxyribonucleic: as the main snaps
21:10 Nardoxyribonucleic: while the first pic of notes with 3/2 + 1/1, which is in fact more varied.
21:10 Stefan: But that'd mean that I have to nerf Futsuu even further, because that's the difficulty which uses 2/1 as their main breaks.
21:11 Nardoxyribonucleic: Yes, you may do so, especially when Futsuu have twice amount of notes compared to Kantan.
21:12 Stefan: That'd mean to change two technical decent difficulties for the biggest part.
21:13 Stefan: I am not sure if that's right.
21:13 Stefan: I agree that Futsuu and Muzukashii are harder than the average
21:13 Stefan: But still plays like difficulties of their level.
21:15 Nardoxyribonucleic: Yes, but relative to how simple patterns are arranged in Kantan and the relatively plenty amount of 4/1 breaks, the hardness of Futsuu and Muzukashii could be readjusted
21:16 Nardoxyribonucleic: I am willing to help if you want to do this for a better spread. The required changes are not that many after all.
21:17 Stefan: The only thing I can think off what works the best is to put something between Kantan and Futsuu.
21:17 Stefan: because
21:18 Nardoxyribonucleic: Also what I mentioned in the post is only about adding one more 2/1 break in Muzukashii.
21:18 Stefan: I don't consider Futsuu~Oni to be nerfed that throws the structure of the map completely.
21:19 Stefan: While I agree and understand that the gap between Futsuu and Kantan is indeed bigger compared to the rest.
21:20 Nardoxyribonucleic: The large gap between Kantan and Futsuu itself is already something that is worth readjusted indeed.
21:21 Stefan: Like said, an additonal difficulty (which is between the current Kantan and Futsuu) sounds the best way to solve.
21:21 Nardoxyribonucleic: In short, you need to simplify some notes in Futsuu to improve the spread from Kantan to Muzukashii and add a bit more 2/1 rests in Muzukashii
21:22 Stefan: That would technically solve the issues you're bringing for Muzukashii (and Futsuu too)
21:22 Nardoxyribonucleic: I do not think addition of a difficulty is necessary in this case
21:23 Stefan: Kantan itself has very few room to "buff" due the stupid 2* rule
21:24 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hmm... Whatever. If you want to do that, making a ENHIX spread would be another option.
21:24 Nardoxyribonucleic: I would say no difficulty increase is needed for Kantan
21:24 Stefan: Yeah, just something between Futsuu/Kantan
21:25 Stefan: That looks imo more profitable than changing Futsuu/Muzukashii largely.
21:26 Nardoxyribonucleic: If you decide to do so, make sure to raise the difficulty of current Futsuu, Muzukashii and Oni while keeping corresponding number of 2/1 current Futsuu possesses as the new Muzukashii
21:27 Stefan: How so
21:27 Stefan: Futsuu is already above 3*
21:28 Stefan: That is pretty typical for a Muzukashii
21:28 Stefan: And Futsuu~Oni feels constant from the difficulty increase.
21:28 Nardoxyribonucleic: I mean, the 3* Futsuu you have has sufficient number of 2/1 breaks currently.
21:29 Stefan: Okay.
21:29 Nardoxyribonucleic: You just need to upgrade it into Muzukashii by adding some 1/2 notes
21:29 Stefan: Oh
21:29 Stefan: Uh.. well I guess that could be done.
21:33 Nardoxyribonucleic: Then you can probably do this: change the set to ENHIX spread: Add a simpler Futsuu, make old Futsuu, Muzukashii and Oni harder.
21:34 Stefan: yes
21:35 Nardoxyribonucleic: For lower difficulties (ENH), Vulkin's Kantan could remain unchanged. Keep plenty of 2/1 or longer breaks in Futsuu and some 2/1 breaks in Muzukashii
21:37 Stefan: Aight
21:37 Nardoxyribonucleic: If you agree with these, you may ask for a disqualification now to get these done :3
21:37 Stefan: mmmmh, do you do the DQ? Or who else should I ask
21:39 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hmm, I think I could DQ upon request
21:39 Stefan: Well, you can do this rn
21:40 Stefan: so I can take care for it asap
21:40 Nardoxyribonucleic: Alright.

Good luck for now. You may ask me for a complete mod when you get this done.

Snowy Heat

296 posts

Joined December 2011

Snowy Heat 2017-05-17T19:08:19+00:00

~~oh shit~~
please do not make us wait for too long again with this ;www;
i just love the set so much, please kill me

Arrival

1,418 posts

Joined June 2012

Arrival 2017-05-17T20:29:39+00:00

Well that was surprising. You can also ask me when you finished it.

Vulkin

1,602 posts

Joined September 2014

Vulkin 2017-05-17T23:10:07+00:00

rip qualify
oh well, ill take this opportunity to fix some things on my kantan that i forgot

EDIT: Discussed some stuff with Surono about some parts, and made a few changes on my own to improve the quality of it
Hopefully its a bit less painful to play
(if its over 2* i swear ill kill this pc because it shows 1.96 here)

Update

osu file format v14

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TitleUnicode:絶望性：ヒーロー治療薬 The Animation
Artist:suzumu feat.soraru
ArtistUnicode:スズム feat.そらる
Creator:Stefan
Version:Vulkin's Kantan
Source:ダンガンロンパ The Animation
Tags:希望の学園と絶望の高校生 danganronpa kibou no gakuen to zetsubou no koukousei ending thenutritiousguy tng vulkin
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Stefan

Global Moderator

10,393 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

Stefan 2017-05-18T23:07:23+00:00

Arrival wrote:
Well that was surprising. You can also ask me when you finished it.

Thank you a lot, I appreciate this help and will consider it when we're really ready.

Hitsu wrote:
~~oh shit~~
please do not make us wait for too long again with this ;www;
i just love the set so much, please kill me

doing my best!

Vulkin: Gonna update whenever Nardo and I get in talk again and how we should proceed since I may not do a 5th difficulty but to nerf Muzukashii/Futsuu.

Surono

7,195 posts

Joined November 2013

Surono 2017-05-19T17:42:37+00:00

nardo and stefan pro.. dem vulkin oke diff!
~~sry for dem english simple lul. will try to mod if nardo postd the mod, since I didnt full mod for this map.~~

Last edited by Surono 2017-05-20T21:15:42+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Nardoxyribonucleic

osu! Alumni

3,008 posts

Joined May 2011

Nardoxyribonucleic 2017-05-20T13:57:41+00:00

Hmm, so you decide to simplify Futsuu and Muzukashii instead of making a new difficulty, which is also fine.

IRC mod with Stefan, May 20, 2017

19:37 Stefan: Alright. So I've been trying to map a 5th difficulty - between current Kantan and Futsuu. But that didn't go very well.. and I sorta struggle with it. Nevertheless I think because I had to change Futsuu/Muzukashii anyways, I think I will just go with your idea to nerf Futsuu/Muzukashii instead.
19:38 Nardoxyribonucleic: Okay.
19:38 Stefan: Also because I barely buffed these two diffs I think that's the better decision to nerf them instead.
19:40 Nardoxyribonucleic: I'm going to provide some suggestions to simplify Futsuu first
19:40 Stefan: okay
19:43 Stefan: Oh right
19:43 Stefan: Vulkin did update some things
19:43 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:02:662 (6) - consider deleting this note? Seeing that Kantan only has 4/1 notes, so it would be better to remove some in the prelude
19:43 Stefan: together with Surono
19:43 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hmm?
19:43 Nardoxyribonucleic: Oh, did you update it?
19:44 Stefan: not yet, gonna do this quick
19:46 Stefan: and done
19:47 Nardoxyribonucleic: Back to the topic then
19:48 Stefan: yes
19:48 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:02:662 (6,12,13,15,20,21) - I think these notes could be deleted
19:49 Nardoxyribonucleic: The current note density is rather similar to Muzukashii while the gap with Kantan is too big
19:52 Stefan: I see what you mean.. okay, doing changes here
19:52 Stefan: removing stuff mostly
19:57 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:16:418 (44) - this note could be removed as well since there is no density increase in Kantan and Muzukashii at this part
20:00 Stefan: done
20:01 Nardoxyribonucleic: Oh, I'm gonna have my dinner first, brb
20:04 Stefan: Okay!
20:18 Nardoxyribonucleic: I'm back!
20:18 Stefan: welcome back~
20:18 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:23:882 (66) - maybe k as you did in Muzukashii for consistency?
20:20 Stefan: Jup
20:20 Stefan: I used to have that part in every diff as dd
20:20 Stefan: but got changed over time.
20:31 Nardoxyribonucleic: From 00:38:077 - to 00:47:443 - maybe try something like this to improve the spread from Kantan to Muzukashii? https://puu.sh/vVUbt.jpg (cursor at 00:42:760 - )
20:32 Nardoxyribonucleic: Kantan barely has any 1/1 notes, so it would be better to use fewer 1/2 in Futsuu
20:32 Nardoxyribonucleic: The suggestion is made with reference to how your Muzukashii is mapped
20:38 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hmm what do you think?
20:39 Stefan: Ah sorry, was sorta busy minutes ago
20:39 Stefan: mmmh lets see
20:40 Nardoxyribonucleic: In this way the snaps are easier to follow as well
20:48 Stefan: Okay
20:48 Stefan: https://derpovic.s-ul.eu/OjFLAG3W.png that's what I did.
20:49 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:49:492 (137) - delete and remove the finish at 00:49:784 (138) - ?
20:49 Nardoxyribonucleic: the former is for spread while the latter for consistency
20:49 Stefan: Okay.
20:52 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:52:711 (146) - 00:53:882 (150) - 00:55:053 (154) - remove ? Kantan is rather simple here
20:54 Stefan: jup, removed all of them
20:56 Nardoxyribonucleic: 01:03:540 (177,178) - you may swap these notes to k d as you did in Muzukashii
20:57 Stefan: yep, sounds also right to Oni
20:59 Nardoxyribonucleic: 01:04:272 (179,180,181) - ctrl+G and delete the middle note ?
21:00 Stefan: https://derpovic.s-ul.eu/0j0Peo6W.png that?
21:00 Nardoxyribonucleic: yes
21:01 Stefan: mmmh, I prefer to have d k here
21:01 Stefan: But I removed the note in the mid anyway
21:01 Nardoxyribonucleic: okay
21:03 Nardoxyribonucleic: 01:13:784 (212) - same as ^
21:03 Stefan: Oki
21:05 Nardoxyribonucleic: 01:17:296 (222) - 01:21:979 (240) - same as before
21:06 Stefan: jup, looks okay.
21:06 Stefan: 2.65* now
21:06 Stefan: lmao
21:06 Nardoxyribonucleic: I guess that's all for Futsuu
21:08 *Nardoxyribonucleic is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/902307 suzumu feat.soraru - Zetsubousei: Hero Chiryouyaku The Animation [Muzukashii]]
21:11 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:42:760 (178) - I think you may have missed the finish here ?
21:12 Nardoxyribonucleic: You have one in Futsuu and Oni
21:12 Stefan: Looks like that, added.
21:17 Nardoxyribonucleic: 01:05:589 (275,276,277,278) - kkk d instead of d kkk for the background 1/4 drums?
21:22 Stefan: It sorta feels right the way it is atm. to put the triplet earlier sounds misplaced to me
21:22 Stefan: But that are just my thoughts.
21:23 Nardoxyribonucleic: 01:14:809 (316) - as mentioned in the previous mod, I think this slider could start at 01:14:955 - , simply for a 2/1 rest after the kiai
21:25 Nardoxyribonucleic: This break could result in a contrast with the ordinary breaks like 01:15:540 - 01:16:711 - etc. as well
21:29 Stefan: mmh, okay.
21:30 Nardoxyribonucleic: Oh, please do it for Futsuu as well then
21:30 Stefan: Did that already. w
21:31 Nardoxyribonucleic: Okay, then we have come to the last problem
21:32 Nardoxyribonucleic: Muzukashii and Oni has a 200-note gap, while other gaps are only ~100
21:33 Nardoxyribonucleic: I would recommend renaming the current Oni into Inner Oni and making a new Oni from it with about 470 notes
21:34 Nardoxyribonucleic: Otherwise you may need to simplify the current one down to 550 notes
21:35 Nardoxyribonucleic: Either way. Just to make sure density difference is not too significant
21:36 Stefan: While I do understand that a constant gap is important for a mapset, the gap of note differences between the difficulties may be a subjective issue
21:37 Nardoxyribonucleic: Well. Note differences could also reflect complexity difference in certain extent
21:37 Stefan: The Oni difficulty plays like one, the only thing I could nerf would be the longer part at the early stage
21:37 Stefan: 00:09:101 (53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64) - that to be exact
21:38 Nardoxyribonucleic: Sure thing
21:38 Nardoxyribonucleic: Also you may consider removing notes like 00:01:199 (4,11,18) -
21:39 Nardoxyribonucleic: for calm parts like this
21:39 Nardoxyribonucleic: sparser patterns may work
21:46 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:04:711 - you may remove this unused timing point
21:46 Stefan: okay uh.. I updated stuff at first, just to have them saved. Did some changes in the 2nd half of the Kiai in Oni
21:47 Stefan: And I kept this line for the volume changes
21:48 Stefan: since people tend to tap for some ms earlier so they'd have 60% for 00:09:540 - otherwise.
21:48 Nardoxyribonucleic: There is no note at 00:04:711 - now for the SV change
21:49 Stefan: It doesn't do anything anyway but okay, changed to the previous SV (0.92)
21:50 Nardoxyribonucleic: I mean [https://puu.sh/vVX3h.png this one]
21:50 Stefan: O
21:50 Nardoxyribonucleic: the highlighted timing point
21:50 Stefan: I am dumb :thinking2:
21:51 Stefan: removed
21:54 Nardoxyribonucleic: I think that's all for now. You may still make minor fixes if you like. You may call me back for a recheck after that.

You may call me back for a recheck after that~

Surono

7,195 posts

Joined November 2013

Surono 2017-05-21T00:51:42+00:00

check,.

>kantan
* 00:09:101 - spinner

>Futsuu
* 00:07:638 (16,17) - ctrl g
* 00:07:638 (16,17) - ~ 00:19:345 - Suggestion to make it balance and variety: 00:11:589 (26,27,28,29) - d d kd, 00:13:784 - dd and apply for similar part
* 01:15:248 - end here

>Muzukashii
* 00:37:638 - add here kkk 1/4 at least because in here is a bit close with futsuu and oni has longstream

Last edited by Surono 2017-05-22T02:12:32+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Vulkin

1,602 posts

Joined September 2014

Vulkin 2017-05-22T01:52:38+00:00

Surono wrote:
check, no kd.

>kantan
* 00:09:101 - spinner yes dad

thank for check

edit: actually no spinner, intense part right after rip

Last edited by Vulkin 2017-06-05T21:08:51+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Stefan

Global Moderator

10,393 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

Stefan 2017-05-22T15:42:30+00:00

Applied for 00:11:589 (26,27,28,29) - d d kd and similar parts and removed the 2nd drumslider entirely of Futsuu. No other changes were done.

Vulkin

1,602 posts

Joined September 2014

Vulkin 2017-05-27T22:24:12+00:00

im actually a dingus for not putting the osu code
sorry

diff

osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: Zetsubousei Hero Chiryouyaku.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 56077
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Normal
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 1
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 38077,66174
DistanceSpacing: 1.4
BeatDivisor: 2
GridSize: 16
TimelineZoom: 1.900001

[Metadata]
Title:Zetsubousei: Hero Chiryouyaku The Animation
TitleUnicode:絶望性：ヒーロー治療薬 The Animation
Artist:suzumu feat.soraru
ArtistUnicode:スズム feat.そらる
Creator:Stefan
Version:Vulkin's Kantan
Source:ダンガンロンパ The Animation
Tags:希望の学園と絶望の高校生 danganronpa kibou no gakuen to zetsubou no koukousei ending thenutritiousguy tng vulkin
BeatmapID:981753
BeatmapSetID:416567

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:7
CircleSize:5
OverallDifficulty:3
ApproachRate:5
SliderMultiplier:1.4
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
0,0,"BG.jpg",0,65
//Break Periods
//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 (Pass)
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples

[TimingPoints]
614,292.682926829268,4,1,0,40,1,8
614,-100,4,1,0,40,0,0
760,-100,4,1,0,40,0,0
9979,-100,4,1,0,80,0,0
28857,-100,4,1,0,70,0,0
56809,-100,4,1,0,80,0,1
74516,-100,4,1,0,70,0,0


[Colours]
Combo1 : 255,255,128
Combo2 : 255,128,128
Combo3 : 128,255,255
Combo4 : 128,255,128

[HitObjects]
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Nardoxyribonucleic

osu! Alumni

3,008 posts

Joined May 2011

Nardoxyribonucleic 2017-06-04T19:04:00+00:00

A quick recheck here. (no kd)

[Vulkin's Kantan]

00:00:614 - I think you should not omit the first bar line here since this line is rather essential for the start of metronome.
You may remove the green lines at 00:00:614 and 00:00:760 - as they are unused.

Stefan

Global Moderator

10,393 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

Stefan 2017-06-04T22:40:03+00:00

Done, didn't bother to wait for Vulkin because that doesn't require him to change that.

Vulkin

1,602 posts

Joined September 2014

Vulkin 2017-06-05T03:38:45+00:00

guess im a bit too late, sorry x)