2016-02-16 17:45 Lumin: Hmmm.. immediate M4M?
2016-02-16 17:46 Avishay: it just means that I am impatient and that I will mod now if someone else mods my map right now
2016-02-16 17:47 Lumin: Are you meaning this rolling star?
2016-02-16 17:47 Avishay: yeah, although it is mainly ready, I have nothing to do until some BNs check it
2016-02-16 17:47 Lumin: i could give it a look.. but considering that SP I hardly could spot anything there..
2016-02-16 17:48 Avishay: don't really give a shit about the SP, feel free to download the map since I recently remapped 2 diffs
2016-02-16 17:48 Avishay: if you find something, cool
2016-02-16 17:48 Avishay: if not, feel free to link me your map and I'll check it out
2016-02-16 17:48 Lumin: well I can give my best
2016-02-16 17:49 Lumin: ACTION is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/897276 Avenged Sevenfold - Shepherd of fire]
2016-02-16 17:49 Lumin: this is my map
2016-02-16 17:50 Avishay: ooh a7x
2016-02-16 17:50 Lumin: yup
2016-02-16 17:50 Avishay: I started mapping this
2016-02-16 17:51 Avishay: ACTION is playing Avenged Sevenfold - A Little Piece of Heaven [FIFTY FUCKING TIMES]
2016-02-16 17:51 Avishay: just 1:30 mins through lol
2016-02-16 17:51 Lumin: so it's a deal huh?
2016-02-16 17:57 Avishay: yeah I guess
2016-02-16 17:58 Lumin: okay then, I'll go map your map then
2016-02-16 17:59 Lumin: mod* lol
2016-02-16 18:00 Avishay: Do you want an IRC mod or a post on the forums? I'd prefer an IRC because there are stuff I'd like to discuss with you rather just mention
2016-02-16 18:17 Lumin: mmh IRC is just fine
2016-02-16 18:17 Lumin: but can we do it after I eat first?
2016-02-16 18:17 Avishay: sure
2016-02-16 18:17 Lumin: okay, i'll message when I'm ready
2016-02-16 18:47 Lumin: I'm ready
2016-02-16 18:48 Avishay: alright
2016-02-16 18:48 Avishay: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/897276 Avenged Sevenfold - Shepherd of fire [ForREVer]]
2016-02-16 18:48 Avishay: first of all
2016-02-16 18:48 Avishay: I feel like the AR and HP drain are waaay too low
2016-02-16 18:49 Avishay: AR could be somewher around 8.9 or even 9 while hp around 5.5 or more
2016-02-16 18:49 Lumin: AR is for compenstating with slowness
2016-02-16 18:49 Lumin: but i could put it up to 8.5-8.8
2016-02-16 18:49 Avishay: around that range is fine as well
2016-02-16 18:49 Lumin: HP is a little low yes so i can put it around 5-6
2016-02-16 18:50 Avishay: now, what's up with the beginning? It's not timed well
2016-02-16 18:50 Lumin: Imo it is
2016-02-16 18:50 Avishay: well then let me show you
2016-02-16 18:50 Lumin: are you meaning those slow guitars?
2016-02-16 18:50 Avishay: yeah
2016-02-16 18:50 Avishay: the fact you are snapping them on 1/12 is egh..
2016-02-16 18:51 Avishay: 00:18:303 (1,2,3,4) - if you just listen closely using 25% playbackrate you'll see they're off
2016-02-16 18:51 Lumin: well they sound better that way
2016-02-16 18:51 Avishay: you need new timing points for them
2016-02-16 18:51 Avishay: or at least 1/128 beat snap divisor
2016-02-16 18:51 Lumin: are they too early or late?
2016-02-16 18:52 Lumin: for me they sound like they are in time tho
2016-02-16 18:52 Avishay: give me a few moments, I'll take care of it
2016-02-16 18:52 Avishay: you could listen yourself
2016-02-16 18:52 Lumin: kay
2016-02-16 18:57 Avishay: offset 18282 with bpm 62.8 sounds better, I don't really have energy to get into the details of the timing but it should be kinda better
2016-02-16 18:57 Avishay: but I will start the mod from 00:35:686 (1) -
2016-02-16 18:57 Lumin: okay
2016-02-16 18:57 Avishay: since I got too much to say, I'll try to talk as generally as possible, if you have any questions just ask or say whatever you need
2016-02-16 18:58 Avishay: first concern
2016-02-16 18:58 Avishay: spacings
2016-02-16 18:58 Avishay: let's take this for example
2016-02-16 18:58 Avishay: 00:36:166 (5,6,7) -
2016-02-16 18:58 Avishay: there's a beat difference between 5 and 6, however for 6 and 7 the difference is 1/2, yet visually the spacing looks the same
2016-02-16 18:58 Lumin: yup
2016-02-16 18:58 Lumin: It's not intentional
2016-02-16 18:59 Lumin: just happened and haven't noticed it
2016-02-16 18:59 Avishay: I figured that much
2016-02-16 18:59 Avishay: just mentionting it, try paying attention for stuff like that, it's a bit misleading in play especially with that AR
2016-02-16 18:59 Lumin: and for me it doesn't feel like a problem because 5 is on stream and rest are jumps
2016-02-16 18:59 Lumin: but I could fix it a bit
2016-02-16 18:59 Avishay: how does the fact that it is a stream matter?
2016-02-16 19:00 Lumin: well you don't usually think it as a part of that jump
2016-02-16 19:00 Lumin: atleast for this kind
2016-02-16 19:00 Avishay: 00:40:486 (6,7,8,9,1) - take this for example as well
2016-02-16 19:01 Avishay: perhaps you tried to emphasize the strong beats
2016-02-16 19:01 Avishay: however the fact that the movement in this pattern is not really strong is making this weak
2016-02-16 19:01 Lumin: for that and it looks nice for me
2016-02-16 19:02 Avishay: if you wanted to emphasize the strong beats, you could try this for example:
http://puu.sh/nac4u/708ff9b029.jpg2016-02-16 19:02 Avishay: moving in the same direction isn't really great for snapping
2016-02-16 19:02 Avishay: changing movements with sharp degrees is a really fun fundamental in mapping
2016-02-16 19:02 Lumin: okay that's pretty good idea
2016-02-16 19:02 Avishay: 00:41:446 (1,2,3,4,5) - why did you decide to stack this for no apparent reason?
2016-02-16 19:02 Lumin: i change it to that
2016-02-16 19:03 Lumin: for variety
2016-02-16 19:03 Avishay: but it's not really supported by the song, and it doesn't really mean anything since it's nothing interesting
2016-02-16 19:03 Avishay: 00:42:406 (6,7,1) - 1/1 with decent spacing, that's okay, however for the last note, it is rather strong compared to the others, yet the spacing is smaller?
2016-02-16 19:04 Lumin: soo is it a must to change?
2016-02-16 19:04 Avishay: I'll get to asthethics and stream shapes soon
2016-02-16 19:04 Avishay: so leave it as it is for now
2016-02-16 19:04 Lumin: okay
2016-02-16 19:04 Lumin: and for that
2016-02-16 19:04 Avishay: 00:45:766 (5,6) - well if you said that low spacing is fine for those 1/1, why is the spacing relatively huge here?
2016-02-16 19:04 Lumin: its so slow part that I don't really even care about the spacing there
2016-02-16 19:05 Avishay: well you should pay attention to everything, you are following the music, the music does not need to follow you
2016-02-16 19:05 Lumin: okay you're right that slider is a bit too far away there
2016-02-16 19:06 Avishay: 01:01:606 (1,2,3,4) - this is a nice idea however the movement into the third note is just making it bland
2016-02-16 19:06 Avishay: um those are just some examples of spacing issues, I'll give some general points on that afterwards
2016-02-16 19:06 Avishay: now um
2016-02-16 19:06 Avishay: for asthethics
2016-02-16 19:07 Avishay: the stream shapes, I realise you looked for variety but they are completely random
2016-02-16 19:07 Avishay: there's no appeal, no connection
2016-02-16 19:07 Avishay: 00:35:686 (1,2,3,4,5) - almost linear stream, that's fine
2016-02-16 19:08 Avishay: 00:37:606 (1,2,3,4,5) - that's completely different, but why? it doesn't really have any appeal for the player
2016-02-16 19:08 Avishay: if you wanted to make something interesting
2016-02-16 19:08 Avishay: you could do for example:
2016-02-16 19:09 Avishay:
http://puu.sh/nacx9/0a4a97bb12.jpg2016-02-16 19:09 Avishay:
http://puu.sh/nacxn/262a65baa2.jpg2016-02-16 19:09 Avishay: zz
2016-02-16 19:10 Avishay: which is the same stream as before, however I slightly rotated it using ctrl+shift+r and cahnged direction usign ctrl+g
2016-02-16 19:10 Lumin: hmm
2016-02-16 19:10 Lumin: well not bad
2016-02-16 19:10 Avishay: this stream shape could be a bit more curvy to have some more appeal but overall just try to think about connections in patterns
2016-02-16 19:10 Avishay: try to avoid randomness
2016-02-16 19:10 Avishay: it makes everything look pointless
2016-02-16 19:11 Lumin: i just noticed that connection between those two streams are pretty random
2016-02-16 19:11 Avishay: which means there is not connection
2016-02-16 19:11 Avishay: an other thing you could do, just as an example
2016-02-16 19:11 Avishay: 00:45:286 (1,2,3,4,5) -
2016-02-16 19:11 Avishay: this is a nice shape
2016-02-16 19:11 Avishay: now instead of
2016-02-16 19:11 Avishay: 00:47:206 (1,2,3,4,5) - 00:47:206 (1,2,3,4,5) -
2016-02-16 19:12 Avishay: I could copy the previous stream
2016-02-16 19:12 Avishay: paste it and
2016-02-16 19:12 Avishay: CTRL+H CTRL+J
2016-02-16 19:12 Avishay: instead of the wiggly stream that appeared for no reason
2016-02-16 19:13 Lumin: okay seems reasonable
2016-02-16 19:13 Avishay: those are just examples, and you could think about connections in regular circle placements and sliders
2016-02-16 19:13 Avishay: create unique streams using a slider shape and then ctrl+shift+f
2016-02-16 19:13 Avishay: or create a polygon using ctrl+shift+d
2016-02-16 19:14 Avishay: 01:18:593 (6,7,1,2) - this for example is a cute pattern
2016-02-16 19:14 Avishay: although I'd improve the blanket between 7 and 1
2016-02-16 19:14 Lumin: didn't even know about that
2016-02-16 19:14 Avishay: well now you know
2016-02-16 19:15 Lumin: yeah it's improvable
2016-02-16 19:15 Avishay: um last thing for now then
2016-02-16 19:15 Avishay: rhythm choice
2016-02-16 19:15 Avishay: generally when a player is playing a map
2016-02-16 19:15 Avishay: he'd prefer to press on the strong beats
2016-02-16 19:16 Avishay: rather than have them land on a sliderend or a reverse
2016-02-16 19:16 Avishay: this is mostly true but some mappers don't follow this and yet achieve great stuff nontheless
2016-02-16 19:16 Avishay: now for example
2016-02-16 19:16 Avishay: 01:06:640 (1) -
2016-02-16 19:17 Avishay: after what I said you'd realise that having a circle and and then start a new slider or an other circle is probably the better option
2016-02-16 19:17 Avishay: and it is definitely an option
2016-02-16 19:17 Avishay: but I want you to notice an other thing
2016-02-16 19:17 Avishay: there are some really weird gaps in the rhythm here
2016-02-16 19:17 Avishay: 01:06:640 (1,2) - there's a guitar held between them, the music still goes, yet the map kinda stops
2016-02-16 19:18 Avishay: it feels odd
2016-02-16 19:18 Avishay: so a slider there would work better
2016-02-16 19:18 Lumin: how
2016-02-16 19:18 Lumin: you mean from 1 to 2?
2016-02-16 19:18 Avishay: the end of 1 to 2
2016-02-16 19:18 Avishay: start the slider on the end and end it on 2
2016-02-16 19:19 Avishay: 01:07:577 (3) - I realise you ignored the strong drum and followed the guitar
2016-02-16 19:19 Avishay: and it'sfine
2016-02-16 19:19 Avishay: many people do that
2016-02-16 19:19 Lumin: yeah, those stream parts are for drums
2016-02-16 19:19 Avishay: however, when you don't follow the guitar well and don't really do much with the drums it feels awkward
2016-02-16 19:19 Lumin: and these parts are guitar
2016-02-16 19:20 Avishay: just saying
2016-02-16 19:20 Avishay: that part of the awkwardness
2016-02-16 19:20 Avishay: could be the spacing
2016-02-16 19:20 Avishay: unjustified low or big spacing could make stuff weird to play
2016-02-16 19:20 Lumin: I think i follow the guitar well imo.
2016-02-16 19:20 Avishay: you do but you can't really ignore the other notes
2016-02-16 19:20 Avishay: I can't really explain it well but I don't feel like this rhythm is really fun to play
2016-02-16 19:21 Lumin: i don't note bass drum
2016-02-16 19:21 Avishay: not in this way of execution at the very least
2016-02-16 19:21 Lumin: only if snare
2016-02-16 19:22 Avishay: eitherway, this is it, I tried to be pretty general, I could go over every detail but it would take a long while, just mod and get mods, get experience and time will do good
2016-02-16 19:22 Avishay: I'd advise you to listen closely to the music and try to map accordingly
2016-02-16 19:22 Avishay: don't just say hm there's a beat fine I'll drop a circle here
2016-02-16 19:22 Avishay: put some thought and time into it
2016-02-16 19:22 Lumin: yeah
2016-02-16 19:22 Avishay: there's no point in rushing unless you have a 100% clear structure, e.g monstrata
2016-02-16 19:23 Lumin: this is pretty advicing mod
2016-02-16 19:23 Lumin: but just a quick question
2016-02-16 19:23 Lumin: do you see potential in this map to get a rank?
2016-02-16 19:23 Avishay: right now? not really, sorry. I didn't really enjoy that, but I'll ease it on you by saying that maping this kind of song is really hard
2016-02-16 19:24 Avishay: high difficulties for songs that are around 120-150 bpm is not an easy task
2016-02-16 19:24 Avishay: I mean making good difficulties at the very least
2016-02-16 19:24 Lumin: I'm not meaning getting it ranked right now
2016-02-16 19:24 Avishay: yeah but it could take a while
2016-02-16 19:24 Lumin: I meant like overall when i mod this enough
2016-02-16 19:25 Avishay: sooner or later you'll realise about how much stupid stuff you did when you'll look back
2016-02-16 19:25 Lumin: yeah, I know already from my old maps
2016-02-16 19:25 Avishay: great because it never stops
2016-02-16 19:26 Avishay: I'll post a chat log in the forums
2016-02-16 19:26 Avishay: gotta get 'dat kudosu
2016-02-16 19:26 Lumin: Okay so I'll go through this map and put my mind into it and see what i get done
2016-02-16 19:26 Avishay: alright great
2016-02-16 19:26 Lumin: yup, you earned it
2016-02-16 19:26 Avishay: feel free to pm me if you have any questionjs