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Imperial Circus Dead Decadence - Uta [Osu|Taiko]

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Stjpa
Best map 2k16, calling it right now.
Topic Starter
Kite
Doubt it, there are already better maps ranked this year and still a long time until 2016 votes.. but thanks anyways I appreciate it q:


Also detailed mod response to Monstrata
01:24:044 (1) - Was there a reason for switching the NC pattern here ;o.

fixed

01:28:434 (7,8) -

fixed

02:43:654 (1) - Can you curve the tail up just a bit? It's looking a bit too burai atm lol.

didnt touch it since it doesn't seem like a big deal to me, ive used such sliders before on many maps and never proven to be a problem for players

03:40:434 (5,1) - This felt a bit uncomfortable. I think with how you've set up the repeat slider into the triples, it would be better to increase the spacing here. Maybe stack slider 1 with 03:40:142 (1) - for a change in spacing.

the repeat slider on 5 lands on 1/3 so its not a huge deal to have higher spacing into the triplet on a kickslider, however the long slider only has a 1/4 time window to the previous object so spacing it further away wouldnt be as forgiving as with the 1/3

03:45:702 (1,2) - This stack kinda throws me off cuz the rest of this jump pattern plays really well D:.

remapped the pattern

04:48:776 (1,2,3,4) - Imo the spacing is too large too early on. I think you can space 1>2 and 3>4 a bit closer, but have the spacing increase at a greater rate. It would fit the build up a bit better imo.

lowered spacing slighty as you mentioned

06:08:853 (4) - I wish you had done something different here. There's a really nice drum sound on 06:08:999 - that you're missing out on right now ;c.

true but the whole section was focused on the organ playing so i'd rather keep it consistent

06:08:853 (4) - I wish you had done something different here. There's a really nice drum sound on 06:08:999 - that you're missing out on right now ;c.

the note is definitely there, i can hear it just fine
i also want to avoid touching or changing this pattern altogether since imo it's optimal for what i had in mind

08:06:511 - This section is really 1/4 intensive. Was hoping to at least see some streams even if not deathstreams lol. It just felt a bit weird that the longest stream here is only 5 notes long. I think you could have added some more 1/4's in here.

most of the chorus sections like this are 1/4 intensive, you could map huge deathstreams if you wanted but i decided not to and put more emphasis on the vocals while still maintaining a rather dense objectcount

I'd also like to change 03:36:337 (1,2,3,4) - to have 3 be a 1/4 kickslider.
Kynan told me it feels rather weird to play as it is now and I agree with him, furthermore the guitar which I was mainly following lands on 1/3 but the drums land on 1/4.
I will keep the 1/4 rhythm as it's more dominant and less intrusive to the playability than a 1/3 would be at that spot.
Musty
i love this map, good luck on ranking Kite !
Topic Starter
Kite
Thanks, hopefully sometime soon!

Also changed the mentioned pattern, 03:36:337 (1,2,3,4) - 2 is now a 1/3 repeat slider to follow the guitar and flings you into the direction of the next slider
Monstrata
  1. 00:48:483 - This part just scared me so hard. I thought there was a bee in my room o m g.
  2. 02:11:751 (1) - This NC doesn't seem necessary
  3. 02:33:410 (3) - Whistle kinda fits here.
  4. 06:22:609 (2) - I don't think the normal-whistle on the slider-body was intentional. It sounds really weird anyways cuz its the default xD.
  5. 08:45:438 - Increase volume to 90%? The custom drumwhistle you use here just sounds slightly softer than the ones just before.
I don't usually mod hitsounds, don't kill me xD. Anyways let me know when you've applied so I can bubble :D
Topic Starter
Kite
Thanks for the recheck! Changed all and also put more whistles around 2:30
Edit: added a missing sliderslide for sampleset 12
Monstrata
Alright, we added some more whistles around the section I mentioned, and added a custom silent slider-slide for the intro/soft sections. This map is ready so heres bubble #2 :D. 1000 pp hype :D.
Topic Starter
Kite
Woo, thanks a lot!

Edit: woops forgot a clap on 04:52:434 (1) - :?
Okoratu
We irc'd and i found something wrongly snapped and have concerns that the the section from 07:29:048 - to 07:43:097 - is early and the offset should just shift by about +20ms (might be too much but sounds much better)

06:08:560 - to 06:08:853 - is 1/3 if anyone is concerned which snapping i found

since i have to double-check everything anyways here's a pop icon!!
idk how useful a german log is and ican't be bothered much to summarize it right now so I'll do that in the very end
Topic Starter
Kite
Thanks for the check, glad those issues were found before it got qualified~
I also added new hitsounds for sliderticks + a finish for c12
lolcubes
As requested, instead of just timing/fixing some parts, here's the complete timing for everything (including the beginning which is damn awkward to map, since it was wrong anyway).

SPOILER
1. Offset: 1.641ms	BPM: 140,00
2. Offset: 23.926ms BPM: 131,00
3. Offset: 24.842ms BPM: 128,00 - Omit first barline must be ticked.
4. Offset: 25.777ms BPM: 120,00
5. Offset: 27.777ms BPM: 110,00
6. Offset: 28.867ms BPM: 108,00 - Omit first barline must be ticked.
7. Offset: 29.973ms BPM: 193,00
8. Offset: 33.703ms BPM: 205,00
9. Offset: 331.068ms BPM: 200,00
10. Offset: 368.268ms BPM: 205,00
11. Offset: 448.463ms BPM: 200,00 - Omit first barline must be ticked.
12. Offset: 449.063ms BPM: 205,00
13. Offset: 462.950ms BPM: 205,00 - Omit first barline must be ticked.
14. Offset: 463.096ms BPM: 205,00

Ticking "Omit first barline" option must be ticked to fix the barlines in taiko (and mania?), else the downbeats get screwed up a little which can confuse people.

I have updated my taiko diff with that timing (and also made necessary adjustments to fix the SV for the above timing at some parts).
Taiko diff: http://puu.sh/nYIsj/661ab7997a.rar

Okoratu wrote:

We irc'd and i found something wrongly snapped and have concerns that the the section from 07:29:048 - to 07:43:097 - is early and the offset should just shift by about +20ms (might be too much but sounds much better)
There is actually a small BPM shift for 5 notes and then goes back, which is why offset shifts a little compared to the way it was before. The melody has really bad feedback, so it sounds like it needs more than it actually needs, however the drums actually sync pretty nicely with the above timing (which totals to about +15 in this section compared to the other ones).

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Raiden
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Topic Starter
Kite
You are amazing cubes! Thanks for the quick touch-up on the timing~
Submitted all the changes now and should be good to go for rechecks!
Kyubey
Bubble #1.

EDIT: Popped due to wrong snap in taiko difficulty.
lolcubes
I messed up.

After one final recheck, I noticed one of the notes in my diff are incorrectly snapped.
00:51:751 (61) - This should be snapped to a 1/2 tick at 00:51:702 - instead. Kite, can you please fix it for me? I'm really sorry. ;_;
Topic Starter
Kite
no problem, updated
Kyubey
Bubble #1.
Okoratu
[kite]
you can snap the preview point if you care or something lol
you reverted quite a bit of what you agreed on during our irc or i remember it wrongly
00:51:849 (8,1) - should be http://puu.sh/o22Qj/8841ad1431.jpg according to drums and guitar
01:41:824 (2) - seems inconsequent with the way you did every other thing as a triplet in that section tbh, i think a quadruplet is a rather odd choice here, mind explaining this?
01:55:434 (9,11) - 04:25:288 (9,11) - would fit closer to the song and give more stress to 01:55:361 - 01:55:507 - if these wouldn't be forcefully mapped out imo because the sounds if there are any on these blue ticks are MUCH weaker than the ones on white and red so i'd recommend focusing these
02:17:898 (6,1) - swap nc lol xd (see 02:16:727 (1) - )
after you forced such a huge 1/4 jump onto 02:24:922 (1,2) - 02:25:654 (4,5) - feels much too close, can you find an arrangement for either of these to address this / make it more predictable?
03:11:166 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - are these following guitar? i think the is doing dumb stuff that's neither 1/4 nor 1/3 but i think it fits best as 1/4 ... actually pretty confusing lol
03:55:654 (4,5,6,7,1) - should have more streamspacing instead of less i mean the guitar is climaxing :\\\
03:57:410 - can you give me a reason to not have an object there i mean you mapped stuff like 01:08:824 (1) - 07:10:316 (1) - so ...?
04:53:020 (4,5) - this is not 1/2 this is not 1/2 and 04:53:312 (6) - shouldn't end on 1/4
04:54:410 - ?? why is this here and not on 04:54:263 - ?
05:21:117 (4) - 08:15:291 (4) - etc could also be a 2/1 stream like i think drums are strong enough to support more circles for this measure but that's up to you
07:42:526 (4,5,1) - did you revert this i thought we agreed on sth else ..?
07:46:608 (5) - i think this is better off as 1/1 plus 1/3 triplet like http://puu.sh/o2524/effb5113db.jpg

[cubes]
i can't comment on anything i can't play properly so here's stuff about the stuff i can play properly
03:14:020 - id recommend deleting this because that would fit the structure you had in this part better (nothing went from 1/2 before a downbeat until 1/2 after it except this lol)
07:33:697 - this doesn't seem necessary at all, you don't even do it again in this part
07:53:047 (528,529,530) - 07:57:730 (550,551,552) - 08:00:266 (562) - i think kite's snapping for these (i hope they're mapped to vocals) is correct and these should be 3/4 rhythms otherwise find an agreement with kite
Kyubey
I'm not sure now if you IRC'd before or not.
Topic Starter
Kite
I'll check through it later today

Okoratu wrote:

[kite]
you can snap the preview point if you care or something lol Done
you reverted quite a bit of what you agreed on during our irc or i remember it wrongly Hm, I fixed most things you mentioned and told you the stuff I didn't apply.. maybe some changes were so minor it didn't seem like I changed them at all (like the 1/4 slidesr into streams)

00:51:849 (8,1) - should be http://puu.sh/o22Qj/8841ad1431.jpg according to drums and guitar This sounds pretty atrocious but seeing how the drums are 1/3 I have to fix this..
01:41:824 (2) - seems inconsequent with the way you did every other thing as a triplet in that section tbh, i think a quadruplet is a rather odd choice here, mind explaining this? Sort of silly reasoning on my end but it was to add tension for the held vocal (that one beat is overmapped though).. basically I tried to increase the tension starting from that pattern until the calm vocal sections kicks in.
01:55:434 (9,11) - 04:25:288 (9,11) - would fit closer to the song and give more stress to 01:55:361 - 01:55:507 - if these wouldn't be forcefully mapped out imo because the sounds if there are any on these blue ticks are MUCH weaker than the ones on white and red so i'd recommend focusing these
I am not changing this because I chose to undermap certain sections and overmap certain patterns for better playability, in this case specificially it is easier to just keep streaming instead of breaking up the stream and have a 1/2 (possibly jump) pattern.
02:17:898 (6,1) - swap nc lol xd (see 02:16:727 (1) - ) Done
after you forced such a huge 1/4 jump onto 02:24:922 (1,2) - 02:25:654 (4,5) - feels much too close, can you find an arrangement for either of these to address this / make it more predictable?
Fixed, even though the distance from 2 -> 3 is now bigger but that shouldn't be much of a problem
03:11:166 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - are these following guitar? i think the is doing dumb stuff that's neither 1/4 nor 1/3 but i think it fits best as 1/4 ... actually pretty confusing lol Yes, it follows guitar and it sounds just fine for me
03:55:654 (4,5,6,7,1) - should have more streamspacing instead of less i mean the guitar is climaxing :\\\ You are right, fixed
03:57:410 - can you give me a reason to not have an object there i mean you mapped stuff like 01:08:824 (1) - 07:10:316 (1) - so ...? It didn't feel as if a note was needed at that spot, but you are right it doesn't make much sense considering I mapped one on the mentioned sections
04:53:020 (4,5) - this is not 1/2 this is not 1/2 and 04:53:312 (6) - shouldn't end on 1/4
Guitar actually lands on 1/2 as far as I can tell.. Slider fixed since drum lands on 1/3
04:54:410 - ?? why is this here and not on 04:54:263 - ?
As I mentioned earlier with overmapping / undermapping, it's for the sake of playability here.. going from a 1/2 into a 3/4 slider into a triplet plays really really bad and feels uncomfortable on the hand, hence I delayed the triplet hit by 1/2
05:21:117 (4) - 08:15:291 (4) - etc could also be a 2/1 stream like i think drums are strong enough to support more circles for this measure but that's up to you I know the drums are strong but I was mainly trying to underline vocals during the chorus (you could easily map a pure deathstream during every chorus)
07:42:526 (4,5,1) - did you revert this i thought we agreed on sth else ..? I thought I told you that I applied another solution that works just as well as the .osu slider edit one.. it lets you play the drum triplet as circles and it's a clean solution without having to edit the slider end, I talked a lot to lolcubes and Kyubey about this one and agreed that this is the best solution
07:46:608 (5) - i think this is better off as 1/1 plus 1/3 triplet like http://puu.sh/o2524/effb5113db.jpg I find my current pattern rhythmically more appealing
Thanks for the recheck, quite a bunch of suggestions applied and fixed snapping issues.. gonna talk to lolcubes about your mentioned part in Taiko
lolcubes

Okoratu wrote:

[cubes]
i can't comment on anything i can't play properly so here's stuff about the stuff i can play properly
03:14:020 - id recommend deleting this because that would fit the structure you had in this part better (nothing went from 1/2 before a downbeat until 1/2 after it except this lol) :arrow: This is intentional. It actually acts as a lead in to the change in the rhythm.
07:33:697 - this doesn't seem necessary at all, you don't even do it again in this part :arrow: It's in the music. As I said before, plently of these are present in this section, but I only chose to map this one (and leave out a don in the stream) so I change the gameplay for the full alt players. This is the spot where you stop hitting patterns with main hand, and start hitting them with offhand.
07:53:047 (528,529,530) - 07:57:730 (550,551,552) - 08:00:266 (562) - i think kite's snapping for these (i hope they're mapped to vocals) is correct and these should be 3/4 rhythms otherwise find an agreement with kite :arrow: These are clearly 1/3. Try snapping them to 3/4 and see for yourself, they fit 1/3 much better.
Sorry but no change.
Thanks for taking a look! ╭( ・ㅂ・)و
Okoratu
sometimes i wished i was a full alt player lol
lolcubes
After some more careful checking, I would actually agree on 3/4 for 07:57:730 (550,551,552) - , however not for the other 2 instances.
What happens is that the first note is actually clear, but the second is questionable, since it's not always on time for the 3/4 snap, at least when the last note is closer to 3/4. Because of this, I think the first two notes fit 1/3 snap a little better, so it's less flow ruining.

I don't know now, I would actually prefer them as 1/3 either way, since the whole section is 1/3 at least. It's funny though, I am usually all for the correct snap however in this instance I believe the flow is ruined as it's a vocal that usually isn't the focus of the mapping (it is here though), since most of the time it just can't have perfect timing. :|

If you guys think it really has to be changed, I guess I could go for it, but I wouldn't like them like that as much.
Okoratu
As a taiko player i do agree that the 1/3 solution fits better with your intentions considering taiko

I'm just confused about what to do with the standard then and in which places, that's all xDD
Topic Starter
Kite
I don't think it's a problem if both of us used different snaps, both work for the intended game mode afterall
Okoratu
consider swapping color 3 and 4, as the reds seem somewhat similar on my monitors doing this will eliminate any chance of them being too similar for anyone as there will always be the pink / purple to separate them (as far as i can see you didn't colorhax)
you may consider using this for soft-hitnormal12 as it will make the section at 04:34:873 - more audible so that they notice that they are actually hitting things


there are a few sliders with incredibly loud sliderticks in comparison to everything else, so i'm wondering if you want to make them more quiet. anyways here's a dump of these sliders:
03:24:629 (1,3) - 03:32:678 (8) - 03:33:556 (9) - 06:49:243 (2) - 06:50:414 (2) - 08:41:632 (1,2) -
the ones in the section starting from 06:09:438 - sound more natural since the ticks all land on ticking sound things in the music so lol
you could actually use the slidertick of 03:41:020 (1) - and 03:48:044 (1) - 03:52:142 (1) - to replace it with a clap to keep your clap pattern?
06:30:219 (3) - just wondering why you do this, i mean i like it and actually don't want you to change it but i'm just wondering why so i can steal this technique
07:42:526 (4,5,1,2) - i still like my solution for this more because it doesn't require you to hit 3 notes with different timing and snap, but only 2 but whatever :(

that's all for now (checking hitsounds for now and will edit this if i find something)

edit: yes i did. i thought they could still be more quiet but that's up to you.

stuff i found about the hitsounding (just giving you the files is easier than telling you to do sth to them)
http://puu.sh/o61cV/ecc5010d9c.zip
drum-hitwhistle: focused a lot on the left ear, so i took its left ear and made it mono
normal-hitfinish: focused a lot on the right ear, so i took its right ear and made it mono
soft-hitfinish22: one of the waves was delayed by about 4 or 5 ms so i cut that off and put it back together
soft-hitnormals: just had like 300ms of unnecessary silence in the end of them
Topic Starter
Kite
Did you redownload? I added a slidertick sound that should be somewhat quiet

Okoratu wrote:

consider swapping color 3 and 4, as the reds seem somewhat similar on my monitors doing this will eliminate any chance of them being too similar for anyone as there will always be the pink / purple to separate them (as far as i can see you didn't colorhax) Done
you may consider using this for soft-hitnormal12 as it will make the section at 04:34:873 - more audible so that they notice that they are actually hitting things Done


there are a few sliders with incredibly loud sliderticks in comparison to everything else, so i'm wondering if you want to make them more quiet. anyways here's a dump of these sliders:
03:24:629 (1,3) - 60% on ticks 03:32:678 (8) - 60% on ticks 03:33:556 (9) - 60% on ticks 06:49:243 (2) - 40% on ticks 06:50:414 (2) - 40% on ticks 08:41:632 (1,2) - 40% on ticks
the ones in the section starting from 06:09:438 - 60% on ticks (seemed loud compared to the section) sound more natural since the ticks all land on ticking sound things in the music so lol
you could actually use the slidertick of 03:41:020 (1) - and 03:48:044 (1) - 03:52:142 (1) - to replace it with a clap to keep your clap pattern? I am not going to hitsound sliderticks with claps, I did that once and the regrets are real
06:30:219 (3) - just wondering why you do this, i mean i like it and actually don't want you to change it but i'm just wondering why so i can steal this technique do what? not sure what you mean ;_;
07:42:526 (4,5,1,2) - i still like my solution for this more because it doesn't require you to hit 3 notes with different timing and snap, but only 2 but whatever :(
Well, after a long debate with myself I decided to go with our initial solution for this pattern which includes .osu editing the slider endpoint to 54 so it lands on the red section snap.. I do prefer this as it's more pleasant to play and a more fluid transition between snaps, just felt weird to .osu edit the slider and other reasons convinced me to do it otherwise.. I know I am undecisive lol

that's all for now (checking hitsounds for now and will edit this if i find something)

edit: yes i did. i thought they could still be more quiet but that's up to you.

stuff i found about the hitsounding (just giving you the files is easier than telling you to do sth to them)
http://puu.sh/o61cV/ecc5010d9c.zip
drum-hitwhistle: focused a lot on the left ear, so i took its left ear and made it mono
normal-hitfinish: focused a lot on the right ear, so i took its right ear and made it mono
soft-hitfinish22: one of the waves was delayed by about 4 or 5 ms so i cut that off and put it back together
soft-hitnormals: just had like 300ms of unnecessary silence in the end of them

Added them all, thanks
Okoratu
rofl
Topic Starter
Kite
ikr
Kyubey
#1
Okoratu
oh my god end me already
lolcubes
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Surono
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Monstrata
07:42:819 (1) -
Monstrata
Fixed a snapping on 07:42:819 (1) - . since it was snapped to the 1/16 instead of the intended red line.

Rebubbling, this is Bubble #2.
Okoratu
I will write a rather dark poem once this is over

also... this is #2

you cant just pop one of our bubbles you kill both or none
Kyubey
Here we go?
Topic Starter
Kite
Poor Oko lmao, don't worry it'll be over soon~ (hopefully)
Thanks so much for your patience with the mapset, really appreciate it guys!
ac8129464363
grats

: d
Lasse

deetz wrote:

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