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The importance of mechanical keyboards?

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-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Wilchq is a rubberdome keyboard user, yet he developed his skills to almost perfection and can keep up to other pro players who are using mechanical.

From my own experience - i moved from old shitty rubberdome into mechanical with Cherry MX Red. It had, to not lie, huge impact on my gameplay.

From main points - it made me faster, even considering my weak and small hands, i wasnt able to keep up on 180 bpm with rubberdome, mechanical made me instantly consistently play 200 bpm, going into 210 single tap was matter of getting used. Another thing - i tap way lighter which preserve a lot of stamina. On rubberdome maps like Crimson Belvedere (10min Demetori marathon) was impossible to finish, i don't have this problem with mechanical at all. And many minor like - more stable UR, more stable acc and which was annoying at start - a lot of sliderbreaks becouse actuation point of mechanical keyboard is way diffrent and way more sensitive.

Basicaly - mechanical keyboard matter for people who strugle becouse of physical issues but i think you can be as good with rubberdome if you train enough (which Wilchq case proves).
DegPixel
74 posts
Joined April 2013
Topic Starter
DegPixel

[Taiga] wrote:

Basicaly - mechanical keyboard matter for people who strugle becouse of physical issues but i think you can be as good with rubberdome if you train enough (which Wilchq case proves).
That is pretty interesting. From a fundamental standpoint, a lot of what I read about streaming seems to talk about consistency, and says that "stamina isn't that useful / important." I think what they mean is that stamina is important, but shouldn't be a problem for most people. The thing is, it is a problem for me, so on that note, perhaps I should consider investing.

Saphirshroom wrote:

I immediately see a problem with your Blackwidow Ultimate story:

You're using Razer keyboards.
I'm not entirely sure what that means, but I'm assuming you mean Razer is a bad brand. They haven't let me down in the past, but again, I've never played a game as keyboard intensive as Osu.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
What i mean is - by nature i have pretty weak body, additionaly from small height, also small hands what create pretty serious problem with gaining enough stamina to follow up on marathons. Rubberdome, especialy this shit what i had requred a lot of force to use. I am not even close to weightlifting, any kind of this activity and i strugle a lot with heavier stuff irl so mechanical keyboard was instant diffrence for me.

I am still unable to single tap above 210 bpm and i doubt it will be anytime thing for me. Already 210 gives me pretty heavy pain after like 2-3 maps and exhaust my hand pretty badly. It's physical issue for me and i am already mentaly fine with not having any kind of fun with mods dependant on speed / faster maps. Here i doubt something could help.

But i can assure you - mech with proper switches (pls no razer, its shit, get cherry for example) will make a diffrence.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

Philantropist wrote:

A common misconception is that picking up a mechanical keyboard will improve streaming/ability. It won't make you any better but it is much nicer to play with and will not fall victim to the same wear and tear of membranes over time.
The will wear over time just not as fast a rubberdomes. Optical switches on the other hand...
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
A common misconception is that picking up a mechanical keyboard will improve streaming/ability
I strongly disagree, mechanical keyboard made me stream way more stable and precise on bpm where i wasnt able to stream for shitty shit with rubberdome (read - streaming was impossible).
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz
Only major benefit of mechanical keyboards is their durability. Everything else is very subjective. When it comes to actuation force etc. just keep in mind that mice manufacturers wave around their dickpi even though the highest anyone really bothers to use is 1800. Mechanical keyboards are nice to have but not for gameplay reasons. They don't magically make you better at this game. Believing in yourself and actually playing more is how you improve.
Saphirshroom
627 posts
Joined May 2013
Saphirshroom

DegPixel wrote:

I'm not entirely sure what that means, but I'm assuming you mean Razer is a bad brand. They haven't let me down in the past, but again, I've never played a game as keyboard intensive as Osu.
I mean, you said all the keys started chipping off, so that shouldn't be osu related. My rubberdome keyboard which I've used for 6 years now and smashed quite a bit :( and bought for less than a seventh of the price Blackwidow Ultimate is at right now still shows no signs of ageing. One single case of a keyboard breaking early like that would mean that I instantly switched companies - unless that falls under some kind of warranty, of course.
vsprite
369 posts
Joined January 2014
vsprite
preference
DegPixel
74 posts
Joined April 2013
Topic Starter
DegPixel

[Taiga] wrote:

I am still unable to single tap above 210 bpm and i doubt it will be anytime thing for me. Already 210 gives me pretty heavy pain after like 2-3 maps and exhaust my hand pretty badly.
On Highscore [Another], for example. I can't even singletap that entire song, and that's 110bpm, so I'd say with 210bpm you're doing pretty swell.

I'm willing to look into mechanical keys, but the problem is that, as I said above, I'm pretty happy with my current keyboard for most things, and I don't want to spend $100+ on a new keyboard to use for just osu!

Do you have any thoughts on the osu! nano keyboard? It does use Cherry MX switches, and of those, I hear that red are the best for Osu? I don't fully understand the difference myself, though.

Saphirshroom wrote:

I mean, you said all the keys started chipping off, so that shouldn't be osu related.
Yeah, I think at the time it was World of Warcraft. Not nearly as intensive as osu!, but man do you click basically every key on your keyboard. Well, that's neither here nor there. You do have a point, and maybe I should start branching out on future keyboards. I've been a Razer fanboy ever since I got the Naga because when it comes to mice, they do know their stuff.

chainpullz wrote:

Believing in yourself and actually playing more is how you improve.
Fair point and one that I agree with. This is only an unfortunate topic because in the end this topic boils down to my issues with stamina and stream speed. There's no easy way to get better at those things, as a part of improving stream speed and stamina is to basically wear yourself out, which I can do very quickly, but recovery takes a long time before I can practice again. With things like that, I'll take any minor edge I can obtain.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
On Highscore [Another], for example. I can't even singletap that entire song, and that's 110bpm, so I'd say with 210bpm you're doing pretty swell.
110 main bpm but by mapping it plays like 220 bpm, sorry for not giving you proper calculation, i am still not sure if it's 1/2 || 1/4 || 1/8 mapping.

Do you have any thoughts on the osu! nano keyboard? It does use Cherry MX switches, and of those, I hear that red are the best for Osu? I don't fully understand the difference myself, though.
Unfortunely no, i cannot help with nano keyboard itself since i don't have any information about input lag generated on them. About switches, i think Zenny have way more knowladge in this matter since i can only give my feedback about Cherry MX Red. About others, go to him.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
Did someone call me? Okay lemme you a quick run down.
For osu:
MX Blues: Bad for speed, good for acc
MX Greens: Bad for speed and stamina, good for low bpm
MX Reds: Good for speed, very good for stamina
MX Blacks: Very good for speed, bad for stamina
MX Browns: They feel like shit and they are shit colored
MX Clears: Good for acc, bad for stamina, okay for speed
Razer switches: Just dont buy
Topre switch: Good for typing but no one wants to pay 300$ for a keyboard
Gateron Clears: Okay for speed, best for stamina
Optical switch: Very good for speed, very good for stamina, most consistent switch out of them all due to not having any physical contacts to wear out.

There is no such thing as best switch for osu. There's only the switch that fits YOU best. Ofc you could buy a numpad that features every switch under the sun.
Saphirshroom
627 posts
Joined May 2013
Saphirshroom

[Taiga] wrote:

110 main bpm but by mapping it plays like 220 bpm, sorry for not giving you proper calculation, i am still not sure if it's 1/2 || 1/4 || 1/8 mapping.
Highscore is 1/8 mapping if we're talking music theory, 1/2 mapping if we're talking osu theory. 1/4 mapping real life, resp. 1/1 mapping in osu, on X bpm literally means X keypresses per minute during singletaps. Streaming speed is double singletapping speed on (most) maps.

Zenith the switch god
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Saphirshroom is right. Thanks for explanation, will try to remember this.

Zenny should change nickname for "Zenith-Wikia".

#FreeZenithPhantasm
DegPixel
74 posts
Joined April 2013
Topic Starter
DegPixel

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

There is no such thing as best switch for osu. There's only the switch that fits YOU best. Ofc you could buy a numpad that features every switch under the sun.
Hmm.. Well based on that it sounds like there are a few direct upgrades on the list. For example, if Reds are good speed and very good stamina, and Opticals are Very good and Very good, with the added bonus of no wear, wouldn't they be downright better?

Although... I don't even know what optical switches are, to be honest. Looking them up online just gave me a bunch of seemingly "eh" non-gaming keyboards, it'd shock me if something that sounds so high end retails for so cheap.

Based on what your list told me, I have issues with speed and with stamina, so I'd think MX Reds, Optical Switches, Gateron Clears or MX Blacks would be good options. My stamina is perfectly fine except when I have to stream faster than my "limit", that's when I suffer. Aside from that, I can stream nearly all day.

Do you know or have an opinion on either the osu! nano keypad, or any other affordable keyboards or keypads? I'll spend money if it appeals to me enough, but as I said, I'm not really in the market for an entirely new keyboard at the moment, I just have no need for one.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Saphirshroom wrote:

[Taiga] wrote:

110 main bpm but by mapping it plays like 220 bpm, sorry for not giving you proper calculation, i am still not sure if it's 1/2 || 1/4 || 1/8 mapping.
Highscore is 1/8 mapping if we're talking music theory, 1/2 mapping if we're talking osu theory. 1/4 mapping real life, resp. 1/1 mapping in osu, on X bpm literally means X keypresses per minute during singletaps. Streaming speed is double singletapping speed on (most) maps.

Zenith the switch god
Actually, beats are on white ticks wit large white ticks being downbeats. Assuming highscore is actually 110bpm this makes them 16th notes or 1/4 (beats) in osu.

Cut time in music theory is where a half note "gets the beat" and there are only two beats per measure. The net effect is that "BPM" is cut in half. That is, BPM isn't a property held by the music, it's chosen for the purpose of writing the music down on paper by way of choosing a time signature. The only property held by the actual music is the period of time between downbeats.

So in this case, since osu does not allow one to map in cut time, it would be inappropriate to use that term. Half BPM would make sense if the downbeat incorrectly falls on every other white tick as opposed to every 4th but this only makes sense due to the time signature being locked at 4/4.
Last edited by chainpullz , edited 1 time in total.
shortpotato
312 posts
Joined December 2011
shortpotato
raser keyboards are the best wat??
Saphirshroom
627 posts
Joined May 2013
Saphirshroom
@chainpullz
Yeah, my explanation is rather shortened, I just assumed Highscore (the song, not the map) was a 4/4 time signature. Isn't the conversion from music theory beats to osu beats multiplication by a factor of 4 on most "easy" - timing wise - maps?
I don't know about the beats in osu, but you definitely singletap 220bpm during the jump sections of Highscore and those are 1/8 in music theory (assuming Highscore is 110bpm which is arbitrary, as you correctly pointed out).
As you can probably tell I was too lazy to look at the actual map :^)
Kunino Sagiri
272 posts
Joined January 2012
Kunino Sagiri
The only real challenge in osu is how to not kill your tapping hand/arm so mechs would/might help.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

Kunino Sagiri wrote:

The only real challenge in osu is how to not kill your tapping hand/arm so mechs would/might help.
The next thing to consider for killing right after your own body is your keyboard.
And well. Rubberdomes, scissors and the likes just WILL wear out.
You don't want to end up like Kaienyuu and have an entire laptop keyboard of broken keys. Not going to happen with rubberdomes as extremely but they wear out too.

Train on blacks to gain stamina and then FC freedom dive+DT on reds kappa
DegPixel
74 posts
Joined April 2013
Topic Starter
DegPixel

Endaris wrote:

Train on blacks to gain stamina and then FC freedom dive+DT on reds kappa
TBH that sounds like something I would do, but first I'd have to not only find a cheap mechanical keyboard / keypad, but also one that has PCB mounts, because I'm definitely not soldering to swap out switches.
Noobsicle
674 posts
Joined October 2013
Noobsicle
lols just train stamina with any rubberdome keyboard then get reds later owo!
KanoSet
906 posts
Joined October 2014
KanoSet

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

MX Browns: They feel like shit and they are shit colored
that's sad :|
i had a thought about em being between the reds and blues
like light tactile and light to press as reds

[Taiga] wrote:

#FreeZenithPhantasm
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