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Hi o/
Take this as more of a post for discussion, not really a mod (hence the longer than normal lines at the start)
I'm narrowing this post down to Comfort only for now.

We spoke about some things in public chat a few hours ago, so I'm going to repeat that for the sake of discussion, elaborate, and then move on to regular stuff.

The general idea was that at 50% or slower speeds, the map makes a lot of sense due to lots of the beats being placed on sounds at that speed. At 100%, or even 75%, it is much less understandable, as there is less of a focus on the "obvious" instruments that you'll hear on that speed and still a focus on the sounds at 50% or slower. This ultimately leads to an extremely confusing experience for most, and for the others who can play the map at that speed, more of a "just click notes" instead of "click to the music" kind of difficulty.
That being said, this map is technically not overmapped. It just feels like so much more at a higher speed than a smaller one, again due to the full speed of the song highlighting various different instruments compared to at slower speeds.
Let me go see if I can find any good examples:
00:26:645 (3) - (this is barely audible even on 25% so at 100% its basically nothing)
00:30:603 - This seems like 1/3 between there and 00:30:811 -
00:49:665 (4,5,6) - These are very weak sounds and seem much nicer represented as sliders+slider ends, perhaps the first slider starting at 00:49:561 - so this clap isn't also a slider end. That way there isn't so much pressure on near inaudible sounds but still maps to them.
00:52:790 (2) - What if i told you there was no sound here? even on 25%, this 00:52:686 (1,2,3) - should actually be 1/3, so a reverse slider or 1/3 burst would make more sense.
01:01:332 (1,2) - On a faster speed, it makes more sense to continue to go along with the instrument highlighted just before at 00:59:978 (1,2,3,4) - instead of this very VERY hard to hear sound at 01:01:436 (2) - . If you made 01:01:332 (1) - a 1/2 slider and a note placed at 01:01:540 - instead, you have a more understandable rhythm at higher speeds, since it continues with the same, very powerful instrument, but you also highlight 01:01:540 - this sound which is being missed because of a really inaudible slider.
01:08:589 (3,4,5,1) - This whole part seems like a gray area, because it's hard to make sense of even in slower OR higher speeds. I see you mapped the 1/3 though which is good, however after the snaps become almost un-understandable. To me, at fullspeed the only obvious sounds I hear are every 1/2, so no 01:08:884 - I think that if you skip this sound and add a few small 1/2 jumps, it'll make the momentum gained from the last sliders go away more gradually.
01:18:520 (1,2,3) - Is this mapped to any actual beats? I can understand it being mapped because of the high pitched... scream like sound idk but it seems like plain rhythmical overmap at a higher speed because there arent actually any sounds on 01:18:572 - or 01:18:624 -
01:30:117 (2) - On 25% or 50% this is perfect, but on higher speeds it just SOUNDS like there are more sounds... you know... idk actually.
01:31:853 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - This must be mapped to something barely existant because it doesn't feel like any of these are mapped to sounds that I can hear. However if they are, the pressure of them doesn't need to be so high, so if you decide to keep them can you tone down the spacing?
01:33:936 - Perhaps make this a clickable sound? It completely fits the section here and what you have mapped circles to.
00:27:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2) - Rechecking over previous parts, on higher speeds only the start of these sliders are audible. I'd try turning them into notes and seeing how you can hear it.
The end 20 secs are sweeeeeeeeeet

Extra things I'd like to point out (in more of a mod-style)
00:02:999 (4) - All of the sounds like this honestly feel dulled down because the end is a slider end. I mean every single one. Why can't the ends be high spaced notes? It fits the sound and hitsounding perfectly, and doesn't fit a slider end at all! If you want to keep the holds, well technically the holds end 1/2 later, like at 00:03:103 - It may be hard to implement them on every slider like this, but just consider it.
00:08:103 (7,8,1) - Perhaps space the slider to emphasise the finish and strong sound?
00:14:561 (3) - Perhaps NC this like you NCed every second object in this pattern? Having it end on a 3 is weird.
00:20:811 (1,2,3) - Having the same slider for all these three sounds doesn't seem fitting. The first two is okay, but the last sounds way different. If you kept the first two sliders how they are then perhaps make the last curve a bit more open, it'd portray the vocals nicer.
00:34:145 (6,1) - This low spacing hurts after all the momentum gained from 00:33:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
00:39:145 (1,2,3) - The flow AND spacing from slider 1 to slider 2 is MUCH harder and more pressuring than from slider 2 to slider 3, however that last slider should be the most pressurised due to being on a downbeat AND having the highest pitch during a sound which gets more intense!
01:02:895 (1,2,1) - Plainly put the flow here feels really odd xd
01:16:228 (4,5,6,7) - I had mentioned this before, but technically speaking, making the first two jumps have higher spacing than the second would fit the pitches more. And since you have mapped a few spacings to pitches early on, it makes sense to do so here (01:14:353 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - like here where every part gets slightly harder and more pressured)

While I'm posting I hope to clear up two misconceptions for some people:
1) Nope, this map isn't overmapped. Actually, it's done quite well tbh. If anything it looks like how I'd map it, but with more curves and density.
2) This isn't mapped for difficulty, this could be mapped so much harder and still be justified.

With that being said, I do disagree with lots of flows in the map, but this is just a personal bias to how I'd map it, so it isn't worth saying here.

gl with re-ranking!
If you wanna talk about any of this in more detail I'm open to pm.
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: picking randomly on some things in your comfort diff if you wouldnt mind
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/902982 Camellia - Routing [Comfort]]
2016-02-14 22:52 Shiirn: sure
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: 00:52:061 (2,3,4,5) -
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: how about
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: the two sliders first
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: you can feel the wubs way better then imo
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: or
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: if you consider the metallophone or whatever it is
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: slider+2xcircle+slider ?
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: atm is 2circle2slider
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: u suggest
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: slider-2circle-slider?
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: yea
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: i would definitely start with a slider at least
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: true cuz atm 00:52:270 (4) - has two significant beats
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: as the wub sound you here
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: is not that strong
2016-02-14 22:55 phaZ: but a wubby slider fits
2016-02-14 22:55 phaZ: _D
2016-02-14 22:55 Shiirn: yeah
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: 00:59:561 (1,2) - ctrlg these?
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: 00:59:457 (9,1) -
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: atm this
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: really kicks me out
2016-02-14 22:57 phaZ: suddenly zic zac
2016-02-14 22:57 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 22:57 Shiirn: thats a tough one
2016-02-14 22:58 Shiirn: i think ill leave cuz otherwise you need to jump awkwardly from 1 to 2
2016-02-14 23:00 Shiirn: feel free to continue
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: yea
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: im just looking
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: and trying for better ways^^
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: 01:08:832 (4) -
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: this is wrong ryhthm
2016-02-14 23:01 phaZ: its still 1/6
2016-02-14 23:01 phaZ: 01:08:728 (3,4) -
2016-02-14 23:02 Shiirn: there the dj scratch is hard to map
2016-02-14 23:02 phaZ: nah i really am 100% sure
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: no like
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: im sure the timing isnt right for dj scratch
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: but at 100%
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: it doesnt matter to player cuz slider and its hard af to read if its off rhythm
2016-02-14 23:03 phaZ: :D ok
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: 01:09:561 (3) - make it start 1/8 later maybe?
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: and get a circle there insteead
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: to have it at least on the bass thing
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: eh
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: 1/4 later
2016-02-14 23:06 phaZ: or just dont mind
2016-02-14 23:09 phaZ: 01:32:478 (1) -
2016-02-14 23:09 phaZ: make this a repeat to get the scratch feeling :D?
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: hi uhh
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: ACTION looks
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: would be super hard to play
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: ctrl+g instead
2016-02-14 23:15 phaZ: 01:29:978 (1) - make this a triplet like 01:28:415 (1,2,3) - or 01:35:082 (1,2,3) -
2016-02-14 23:15 phaZ: so that 01:30:186 (2) -
2016-02-14 23:16 phaZ: can start earlier
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: ooo
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: that makes it REALLY hard
2016-02-14 23:16 phaZ: i mean
2016-02-14 23:16 phaZ: like
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: or do you mean
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: 1/8 circle-circle-slider
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: for wub
2016-02-14 23:17 phaZ: http://puu.sh/n84XB/047eccf68c.jpg
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: mmmmm that's
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: ACTION thinks
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: lemme try it
2016-02-14 23:17 phaZ: because the wub slider feels too off imo
2016-02-14 23:17 phaZ: it shoudld actually start on the white tick
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: it makes for a really long slider hold
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: feels weird in kiai
2016-02-14 23:18 phaZ: make it lincrease sv lolol
2016-02-14 23:19 Shiirn: think ill pass on that one
2016-02-14 23:19 phaZ: well ok http://puu.sh/n858m/eeb6e67e84.jpg
2016-02-14 23:19 Shiirn: ill think about it, tho
2016-02-14 23:19 phaZ: pictuer anyway :p
2016-02-14 23:22 phaZ: 00:02:999 (4) -
2016-02-14 23:22 Shiirn: hi
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: did you make long slider because music is stopping?
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: so you dont have anything to click?
2016-02-14 23:23 Shiirn: yes
2016-02-14 23:23 Shiirn: because it is big pause
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: mmm
2016-02-14 23:23 Shiirn: so i didnt want a click on the end
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: meh
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: what i think is flawesd there
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: is that
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: 00:01:957 (2,3) - this is actually the same compared to that
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: the you use that slider here again 00:01:645 (1) -
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: as it were the same music pattern
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: *but then you use that slider..
2016-02-14 23:25 Shiirn: the end of 00:02:999 (4) - is a bass hit
2016-02-14 23:25 Shiirn: but i can see the point
2016-02-14 23:25 phaZ: would rather have it not the same way as the sliders before
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: it feels tome like
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: when you have a good pattern
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: but on redticks
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: when music is white
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: kind of that
2016-02-14 23:27 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 23:31 phaZ: 01:26:020 (1,2) - why 1/8 sliders here o.o?
2016-02-14 23:32 Shiirn: cuz there is side of drum hits there but i dont want a 5-note 1/8
2016-02-14 23:33 phaZ: ahhh
2016-02-14 23:33 phaZ: ok
2016-02-14 23:33 phaZ: i didnt notice
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: still
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: think
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: a slider like the one after wards i still more fitting
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: because the sound
2016-02-14 23:37 phaZ: which you also can here at 00:27:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
2016-02-14 23:37 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 23:37 Shiirn: i suppose. ill need to think about it
2016-02-14 23:37 phaZ: it feels too interrupted to me
2016-02-14 23:38 phaZ: if you map the drum snare thing there
2016-02-14 23:38 phaZ: well thats it
2016-02-14 23:38 phaZ: or i am not good enough to judge other flow things :3

i think ill look again into comfort and other diffs too in 4h
modpost is 30% ready, so this means i will have to finish it
expect it sometime tomorrow, please wait for me

Shiirn wrote:

Yauxo wrote:

(I dont care if you try to defend your map, just dont act like it's perfect)
I never said it was perfect. I've applied many mods just today. Most people I've spoken to like the map a lot, just a vocal minority like to find any reason to dislike the map.

Most pro player input I have gotten is that it plays very well for the most part and any parts that feel directly unfair as opposed to challenging are being found and weeded out.

The raw aesthetic rule of " you need to make sure no notes overlap and the map has the exact same style the entire map" is not going to happen here. If you want it to happen here, you're looking for the wrong map. Having a stringent rule of "sliders need to point directly at the next note or it is ugly" is just as silly. If you want to say "its all just a god damn mess" then have fun. I won't accept "change it because it looks bad" as a mod.

Most of the input I've gotten since the disqualification has been "shit from the thread, value from in-game". The people that are speaking their mind in this thread without giving specific advice (or are telling me I mapped a section wrong because they'd do it differently and refuse to see any sort of alternative) are completely useless. The people who chat with me in-game and discuss actual pattern shape and flow are far more valuable. As such, I'm going to give them the attention they deserve.

I'm going to go over Comfort with a very fine toothed comb over the next day while seeking (and going over already posted) input from people whom I know aren't just making shit up because they vaguely find the map disagreeable. After that, I'm going to work back towards qualification. If it gets DQ'd again, so be it. I will not be fillibustered out of ranking something I know is not just rankable, but pretty good. And Comfort is pretty good. It's nowhere near perfect, but perfect is unobtainable as there will always be people who think it should be different.
Not that I ever said you had to do any of those things. It's possible to make tasteful overlaps. It's possible to transition between styles without making it feel jarring (not that I even see that much of a style change in your diff in general). Doesn't change the fact that I don't think the map looks good though. But hey, since I dislike the map my input is completely useless anyway I guess? Yeah, I'm not modding it, because from the way you reply to these things I don't think you'd like/want my input anyway nor do I think you would agree with most of them. In the end it would just be me saying a bunch of things, and you rejecting it.

Still, I don't think writing opinions is useless. Maybe you do, but eh.
I don't mind you rejecting suggestions or feedback, since it's totally up to you what you do with your map, however...
Don't be disrespectful towards people that show criticism or negative feedback towards your map, because those type of remarks help you work out better solutions that still alligns with your initial idea, thus strengthening the foundation you can work with.
Criticism and negative feedback may actually be more valueable than people sugarcoating everything you do.

Anyways, good luck with your map!

CXu wrote:

Still, I don't think writing opinions is useless. Maybe you do, but eh.
I've replied to every actual mod with thought-out responses and a lot of acceptance. I don't understand where you get the idea that I deny all feedback. I just don't accept feedback that doesn't have actual suggestions. It's easy to say "this is ugly". It takes actual work to say "this is ugly to me because...".
I just want to point out.

00:17:478 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
Extremely awkward to play.
You can for example ctrl-g 00:17:895 (3,4) - those and it's much better.
I have played this part so many times and I still can't get it straight because the pattern is overshadowed by the most distinct sound.

00:44:665 (5,1) - This flow is very weird, and the next note is just spaced but is the same, I would ctrl-g 00:44:770 (1) - .

00:48:520 (5) - Why is it placed like that.

00:51:645 (4,5,1) - This pattern is really awkward situated, pattern before it is different and there is no change to the song really but the movement required is not jumpy anymore, it's linear and it makes it very weird to play.

00:54:874 (7,1,2,3) - This looks like you placed random notes to a different song, flow and rhythm is terror

01:05:395 (4,5,6,7) - :/ even the whole pattern 01:05:395 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - is just weird.

01:18:936 (1,2,3) - I think I hear 1/6 rhythm. Also 01:19:040 (3,4,5) - spacing increases when the song goes down. 01:32:895 (4,5) - Same here, why so?

01:20:915 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - This doesn't play as well as the one before it, the tones are not fit for this pattern.

01:23:311 (5) - looks like a dick xdddd
01:23:728 (1) - and this would be balls I guess

01:28:103 (3,4) - slider first then white tick note please

01:29:040 (6,7,1) - Stuff like this in the map makes it awkward to play at many places, the flow is just off.

01:32:270 (6,1) - Blanket.

01:32:895 (4) - I would ctrl-g

01:33:311 (1,2) - This just doesn't go well, why such big spacing? At some points it feels like you are spacing the map way higher than it should be and then when something special comes when imo you should increase it, you decrease it.

01:34:874 (4) - I don't like this one, ends at big white tick and that doesn't work that well, why not go 3 sliders in a row and a single tap at the end to accentuate the big white tick?

01:35:082 (1,2,3) - The sound at your triple is not a triple also you just jump towards 01:35:395 (4,5,6) - .
Mapping to different rhythms in one combo, don't know if that's a good idea.

01:17:478 (1,2) - Why not slider on white tick and note on red? It fits so much better.

did some consistency check now
  1. 00:04:978 (4) - phrase starts here again so put NC here too, RNC at 00:05:395 (1) then
  2. 00:05:707 (4) - you might nc this, too like you did at 00:02:374 (1)
  3. 00:09:040 (5) and 00:09:561 (1) - different NC'ing again. although the first time the phrase is ending abruptly, i still recommend to keep them the same (just seems the most logical then to me)
  4. 01:51:957 (2,3) - ^ different NC'ing in the last part too ;w;
  5. 00:04:249 (1,2) - how it comes that so different from 00:10:915 (1,2) ?
  6. 00:12:374 (5) - NC issue like above
  7. 00:20:082 - shouldnt there be a wubbly slider here?
  8. 00:19:353 (1) - and 00:32:686 (1,2,3,4) - sounds actually similiar (and this sound is on the same spot in the repetition) if you remove your hitsounds. so make it the same too? this is a structure issue in ther way that, as a player you wont notice that it's actually the same again (thus map feels more random)
  9. 00:16:020 (1) - not as important but its a different style compared to 00:22:686 (1) - but why tho
  10. 00:17:270 (2) - where are my 1/6? (compare to 00:23:936 (2,3,4,5) - at the repetition). on a second note NC'ing is different here again but the music making differences here too so yea
  11. 00:33:311 (3) - 1/1 is really bad. the jumps and NC should start at the sliderend. anyway it is completely different mapped to 00:20:186 (6,1,2,3,4)
  12. 00:48:311 (4) - slider is off the synth, at 00:47:374 (3) you acrificed the strong drum to get the slider togethere with the synth. you basically did it all the time before so its kinda suprising to get off the synth-line/track here. make it like at 00:51:853 (1) (altough thats not exactly the repetition but it has the same rhythm)
  13. 00:55:186 (2) - ctrl+g would flow waaay better. also i think pursuing the previous pattern is out of place as the music changes here
  14. 00:56:228 (4) - where are your 1/8 drum following sliders now huh^^ (see 01:26:020 (1,2) - mentioned in IRC). i still think you should remove hte 1/8 sliders at the second time tho^^
  15. 00:55:968 - ^ same as above, add your 1/8 stream here then?
  16. 00:59:561 (1,2) - ctrl+g, still think it would flow awesome :D
  17. 01:01:436 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) - why not some scratch-mapping like at repetition at 01:08:311 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3)
  18. 01:01:645 (3) - anyway this finish is on wrong spot it should be at 01:01:540 - i think this additional finish sounds awesome tho, so maybe instead add one at the repetition also missing out the finish at 01:02:999 -
  19. 01:08:520 (2) - finish should be here like at ^
  20. 01:14:249 (6,1) - dafuq o.o? this should be like at 01:20:915 (1,2)
  21. 01:22:895 (1) - you didnt NC at 01:16:228 (4) tho
  22. 01:28:207 (4) - here you sacrifice the strong drum to follow the vocals, 01:27:374 (5,6) - here you didnt do this exactly :?
  23. 01:29:353 (1) - even tho the vocals are having a kind of a break here i think it is still more appropriate to make the NC at 01:29:561 (2) at the white tick/beginning of vocals (if even a NC is needed at all). i actually would make 2xcircle+2xslider at 01:29:353 (1,2,3,4) - (instead of the current 2xslider+2xcircle rhythm)
  24. 01:35:915 (1,2,3,4) - please make NC'ing and maybe similiar rhythm too (2xcircle+slider+circle) like at ^. this is again almost a repetition.
  25. 01:30:811 (4,5,6,7) - i know what youre are going for here but, this looks very similiar mapped when you followed the vocals, so when youre playing you also expect that. use a more different looking pattern here pls :s
  26. 01:48:832 (3) - isnt this slider like completely wring here? sounds like this to me: http://puu.sh/n90ca/202f3329c4.jpg ((5,6) are on 1/12 snap if you wanna map them)
  27. 01:49:353 (7) - NC here? theme is coming back again after that jazz like piano shout-in. you also did sth similiar at 01:50:915 (1)

could point even some more nazi stuff about rhythm and even spacing of patterns in terms of consitency but that seemed a bit unnessecary then
  1. 00:03:728 (2,3,4,5) low spaced - 00:10:395 (3,4,5,6) high spaced. logic :?
  2. 00:04:249 (6,7) - 00:10:915 (1,2) - why the different rhythms
  3. 00:28:311 - where did all my wubbly sliders go in the repetition of this part 00:14:978 - ?
  4. 00:32:686 (1,2,3,4) - 00:19:145 (5,1,2,3) - make them the same? more memorisable then, too not mentioning its actually completely the same thing again
  5. 01:07:999 (1,1,2,3) - 01:01:332 (1,1,2,3,4) - map them in kinda the same way? at least fix that slider 01:01:332 (1)

modded this one just very briefly :/ i guess someone or you need to check some of the NC changes you might did on the comfort-diff and apply them here possibly too
[ongakus insane]
  1. 00:02:374 (1) - remove NC. compare to 00:08:311 (1,2,3)
  2. 00:08:728 (2) - for same reason as above make this also a repeat slider or the other an antijump-non-repeat-slider
  3. 00:48:520 - 00:49:145 - 00:49:457 - "The Disappearance of whistle-chan". it really hurts, i wold rather remove the drum-hitsounds for that. the normal-whsitles are exclusively for the special synth of this part (while the drum HS are basiclal everywhere) so at least keep it consistent.
  4. 00:54:874 - 00:55:395 - 00:55:603 - same as ^, you could actually put them on the sliderend, sliderbody, sliderbody so why not add them if you can?

very consistent
i guess the rest is fine =w=
ahh why did you already kd the lazy irc mod <.<
For reference:

Don't trust the color of the ticks to tell you where the prominent beats are. Almost all of the sliders that end on white ticks are doing so because they are having the player click something that isn't just the bass.

Applied a lot of arphi and polack's mod, working on the rest. Replying to each would take forever but i will if necessary.
Why arphi got kds and i didn't?
I don't dislike this map.
You have some offbeat sliders in your peak diff, i'd prefer you changed those into something more fitting, but aside from that the map is really decent.

phaZ wrote:

[ongakus insane]
  1. 00:02:374 (1) - remove NC. compare to 00:08:311 (1,2,3) applied
  2. 00:08:728 (2) - for same reason as above make this also a repeat slider or the other an antijump-non-repeat-slider Kind of confused here...
  3. 00:48:520 - 00:49:145 - 00:49:457 - "The Disappearance of whistle-chan". it really hurts, i wold rather remove the drum-hitsounds for that. the normal-whsitles are exclusively for the special synth of this part (while the drum HS are basiclal everywhere) so at least keep it consistent. remade patterns and applied hitsounds for consistency
  4. 00:54:874 - 00:55:395 - 00:55:603 - same as ^, you could actually put them on the sliderend, sliderbody, sliderbody so why not add them if you can? same here

very consistent
Thanks for the mod!
Just kind of going over it. Youve already got enough mods in here, so Im not even going to bother, I'll just drop my tiny shit here.

I guess it's a good map (somewhat, not the best though, guess it's fun), but at the same time I feel like some playability factors went missing to compensate for some, not always necessary, aesthetics. Some random patterns that explain what I mean. Take it or leave it, Comfort
(Edit: I couldve sworn that the Comfort diff was named Routing when creating this post. Now I just look like some weirdo that tried to make a funny or impactful joke with the name of the song).

■ 00:09:561 (1,2) - 00:10:082 (1,2) - The map looks like it's going full-on for flow, at least that's what I assume all these blankets and rounded Sliders are for. If that's so, then these kinds of Sliders just dont fit in. They most likely could be thrown into the anti-flow chest, as the map (generally fast paced) and the mentioned combo ((1 -> 2) and (2a -> 2b), the slow forced back and forth) dont work well together. Even if you tried to blame this on the music, because of whatever silent note in the song, it just doesnt fit. Weird antiflow objects and fast flowy maps dont like each other.
■ 00:15:290 (2,3,4) - Whats up with that spacing? Both seperate combos are like a family that lost each other at a park or something. Put them back together, they dont like to be seperated. (really though, random speedups for seemingly no reason dont feel good)
■ 00:18:103 (4,5,6,7) - Compared to what kind of sounds made 00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - so jumpy, this one shouldnt be this spaced.
■ 00:28:624 (2,3,4) - Strong sound is on (3), jump is on (4). It's the small things that make things feel weird.
■ 00:52:270 (3,4,5) - 01:13:728 (3,4,5) - Similar thing as above. Even though it has the shiny sound on it (which would explain the jump), I still dont think that mid-alternate (is that a word) jumps like these are any good. Maybe I just really like spacial equality.
■ 00:55:186 (2) - Sliderhead on the end of a strong beat feels "meh" as well. 00:55:082 (1) - 's sound is too strong to have something on where (2) sits. Probably wouldve been better if this (1) was a longer Slider.
■ 01:23:207 (4,5) - Not sure where that comes from, but my head tells me that this would feel much better if the combo/slider was released towards the right. Quick up/down movements are usually somewhat shaky and not precise, so having a less hard/fixed jump pattern (-> not always to the left) might be easier. Probably nonsense.

MOST OF THESE SUGGESTIONS WERE DONE BEFORE LOTS OF THE PREVIOUS MODS SO A LOT OF STUFF DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ANYMORE. Posting the unfinished thing here before I just give up with it. If I ever get to modding the rest I'll do it, idk.

Hi! First off, this mod will be done throughout a busy day I'll be having, so I *may* have a few inconsistent points, so I'm sorry for that! I'm also with a small hearing issue and I'm not listening to everything clearly so I may end up missing a few stuff or pinpointing what isn't 100% right. If I ever come across as rude in the mod I'm sorry! I'm just really trying to get some stuff which feels awkward so next time you get this qualified, people won't be mad at you. All of these are with the actual intention of helping and not trashtalking the map, and most of these will be told from a player's perspective since, in the case of 7* maps, it matters slightly more than a mapper's perspective. I'll still be doing comments for aesthetical stuff and nazi things when necessary (or not), though.


  1. 00:03:520 (1) - I feel like this NC doesn't really belong here at all. Yes, you are showing that the song has changed instrument/intensity, but this is such a small change/sound that it just doesn't matter at all. I'd either take the NC off from this or 00:03:728 (1) - as there is no need to have both here. If you choose to let these, then you might want to add a NC to places like 00:04:561 (2) - since the intensity change here is much more interesting to emphasize with a NC and you didn't do it.
  2. 00:05:915 (5,2) - Nazi - these aren't perfectly stacked
  3. 00:08:311 (1,5) - ^
  4. 00:09:561 (1,2) - ^, but this isn't really my issue with this one. The fact that you have a counter-logical movement between the end of (6) and (1) is already a big issue usually, but then (2) just simply has a unnatural movement that plays extremely awkward and feels like just a gimmicky pattern made for the sake of it. The song doesn't really support "going back to where you wre before" so there's no need for something like this. If you really want to keep something like this in a way that I can support it, then you can go full tengaku and do this. Note that the screenshot also suggests a good new placement for (3) which does play kinda awkwardly, but still much better than what it is now.
  5. 00:10:082 (1,2) - Badly stacked, and same issue as before, however this isn't as big of an issue because there is a break before. Still not something I fully support, but I believe you won't want to change this.
  6. 00:11:645 (1) - This slider has a few issues. It's not perfectly blanketing (2)'s sliderend, also looks really ugly with the curve from the previous slider barely touching it, aaaand also it flows really badly, as it is forcing you to make an unnatural movement (going up following (2), then you have to instantly go right and up->left again to follow (1). If you don't mind about the blanketing, then the solution to fix the flow will be ctrl+G'ing (1) and (3) like this, which results in a much more natural movement and doesn't break your pattern in any way.
  7. 00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - As a tap player I don't really like these jumps and I feel like they aren't really nice to alternate as well due to their movement and distance, but I may be wrong here, so I won't really suggest you to change, just a small quick comment
  8. 00:15:290 (2,3,4) - Yes, I get your point with the spacing difference you're using here. Yes, it does follow the song to a certain extent. But then here comes the biggest issue of it all: Does it *actually* play well and intuitive? A player might be easily able to sightread/play this spacing, but it still doesn't make up for the fact that it is not as enjoyable to play. The biggest problem here, however, is that the song does support jumps like these, but you still have to find a way to make them play better than they do right now. These sudden changes in spacing and flow are what makes the map 'choppy' to play for most people, it's not even about the blanketing or the crazy 288 jumps. I know that this was done on purpose and you may want to keep them since it is the essence of the map, but if you ever think about changing it, then, in this case, stacking (3,4) would make it better as you're not exactly going through a weird spacing change and is just playing a stacked note which is a much more interesting cursor movement. If you really want to keep this, though, then at least properly blanket (4) with (1)'s start.
  9. 00:15:707 (5,6) - Unnatural movement, as explained before (this also looks a bit ugly for me but it may be just me). It doesn't really make the pattern much prettier, but turning the slider around like this may make it nicer to play.
  10. 00:16:645 (3,2) - Nazi, these are not perfectly stacked. Don't forget to fix 00:17:999 (4) - if you care about this!
  11. 00:17:999 (4) - I'd reeeeeally really rotate this slider slightly so you actually make a star movement when playing (right now, (4)'s length makes you have to go up instead of going straight to (5) which may be creative, but doesn't exactly play nicely). Rotating this by -30º using selection centre worked nicely for me.
  12. 00:19:874 (4,5) - I already talked about these so it's your choice if you want to keep them. There's something about this one that makes it really confusing for me to sightread and I end up pressing (4) thinking it's a slider. This may be an issue you might look out for, since in a 7.5* map you really need to make these things more intuitive. It may be an issue to another DQ later.
  13. 00:21:228 (3) - It may be just me, but the intensity jump between (2,3) is much bigger than (1,2), so you may want to emphasize this better. Something like this does the trick for me, but it may feel weird/ugly to you (and it also kills your pattern ;_;). Still, it's a better attempt to follow the song, in my view.
  14. 00:22:895 (1,2) - I feel like the spacing between these two is way too low... This is almost the spacing you've been using for 1/8s, while you just had a few 2.40x 1/4 jumps. Intensity is pretty much the same so I don't see why use this as a spacing rest. If you think about changing this, doing this would be a nice way to fix it (and also the pattern looks prettier in my eyes).
  15. 00:23:311 (3) - Nazi, but this isn't perfectly stacked with 00:22:478 (4) - .
  16. 00:23:936 (2,3,4,5) - Nazi as well, spacing between (4,5) is different than (2,3,4).
  17. 00:27:686 (1,2,3,4) - Something about this pattern just makes me not like it. Maybe it is the fact that (1) is almost touching (6), the fact that the sliders are way too curved or (3,4)'s repeats just being way too unintuitive, like you don't know when to start holding each slider and when to stop (aside from looking at the approach circles, but let's be honest, who does this nowadays, especially in a 7 star map). I don't.. really have a suggestion for this, sorry :( I just don't want to break your mapping so I'll leave it up to you if you want to do something about this/how you want to do it.
  18. 00:28:832 (4,5,6) - Same issue as 00:15:290 (2,3,4) - so I won't really blabber about it again, just if you want to fix this, placing (5) at 496;152 works fine and creates a nice kind-of-triangle between (2,3,5).
  19. 00:30:811 (3,6) - Pretty weird blanketing here, (3)'s start is much farther away from the smaller slider than the ending is, but there's a bigger issue here:
  20. 00:31:332 (6) - You're missing a clickable sound at 00:31:436 - . I won't go around explaining the basics of how beats have to be clickable & etc so I'll spare you the details and send you up a suggestion on how it could be made using the mapping logic you used here.
  21. 00:33:311 (3) - Same as 00:30:811 (3,6) - , seems like a ctrl+> fixes this one instanty though.
  22. 00:34:249 (1,1,2,3,4) - This one just feels extremely unintuitive to play because the spacing just goes much different than what you've been using for the past 5 seconds or so. I think something like this should work better while using your mapping logic. Note that 00:34:249 (1) - is stacked over 00:33:832 (3) - .
  23. 00:36:540 (1) - This slider looks slightly ugly, so I'll be giving you a code with a better curve if you want, here
  24. 00:37:061 (1,5) - Nazi - not perfectly stacked
  25. 00:37:895 (1) - Nazi - moving the last sliderpoint to 252;192 makes this blanket look a bit better
  26. 00:38:311 (3) - ^, moving the middle point to 268;48 does the same thing
  27. 00:39:457 (2) - Nazi again, doesn't perfectly stack with 00:38:936 (3) - . I know these are really annoying and small but I'm just pointing them out for the sake of "if you don't want to fix them that's completely fine, if you want to fix them it's a small improvement"
  28. 00:40:186 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - haha tengaku memes xD
when you can't find mods so you get your map qualified then get a bunch of post-DQ modders with giant mod posts
I'd like to point out BD's half-finished mod has given more insight than most other mods I've gotten for a while. Also did Yuaxo's mod, but if I hear the word "flow" one more time without any sort of explanation as to what they feel flow is (because seriously ask 5 people and you'll get 5 different definitions of flow) i'm going to kick monstrata's cat
"Stop using this word, it's worse than swag."

ps: my mod only mentioned flow at the end in the bonus section cus its subjective pls dont kill
Clarification: I just use flow as a word that explains mapinternal intuitive movement (and maybe placement). Not subjective "I like what I do, but yours is bad" flow.
I'd love to see you reply to mod, specially to the ones you ignore (Hula's one for example), to be honest without reply its hard to know what is going on with the map.
serious shiirn, don't be that guy.

You were on about flow before, I mentioned flow a fair bit because I saw you made that big reply to cxu's post which was strongly based on flow. And nearly all the mods mention flow. It's real. This is you btw


My mod might not be amazing, but it certainly isn't terrible. I made valid points about some rhythms at the very least. And my mod is asking you questions, that's a key thing as a mapper, being able to answer why you mapped things. Srsly. Don't be that guy.
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