Because is it really that necessary talking about him how good he is ?
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Cookiezi's Ranking destruction
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No. But 50% of G&R is "how do I get better" or "am I doing well?" shittopics anyway. This is a gem compared to those.KINGDUNEGON wrote:
Because is it really that necessary talking about him how good he is ?
People are going to talk about him no matter what, so personally I think it would be great if there would be a Cookiezi thread/IRC channel (or both) where people would be redirected to when they want to talk about him. Obviously there are people that don't like seeing the discussions all the time, so keeping the discussions in a single place would be beneficial to them too. As it is, a lot of people are talking about Cookiezi but his spectator channel (and Twitch channel) are the only places where it's considered acceptable. However, his spectator channel isn't always open (obviously) and his Twitch channel is external to this game (and the chat is also behind a paywall during the most interesting times), so they're really not that great.KINGDUNEGON wrote:
Because is it really that necessary talking about him how good he is ?
Threads to discuss individual players who do not start the thread themselves seeking help etc. is considered off topic in G&R. Citing specific players as examples is not. If you want to discuss specific players or information related to cheating/bans then you should flock to reddit where such things are permitted. Just remember discussing anything hush-hush anywhere is a bannable offense.
TL;DR mods are being lazy about not locking this thread.
TL;DR mods are being lazy about not locking this thread.
or maybe you guys could leave this thread drowned in the sea of G&R instead keep posting "It's still not locked!" thingy.
yeah cookiezi is #1 hr player in the world no doubt, but is it really necessary for people to create a post that deserves to be in off-topic or general discussion right here?Saphirshroom wrote:
What the heck are you talking about? Defenders and The Last Journey Home got hyped like crazy. Naturally Cookiezi gets more hype because he simply has more viewers on Twitch and because his marketing was done really well (probably unintentionally) by streaming way before he got unbanned, such that he already had gotten some crazy scores when the unban happened.
And if we're talking about HR there's no doubt Cookiezi is #1 in the world. We will see whether that's also the case for HDDT, although chances are big he cannot beat hvick.
I agree though: We got some impressive scores, but regarding rankings there's nothing special about him getting so far in so little time. He said himself that he wasn't rusty, so it's only natural he'd climb fast. Someone made a point about Reimu taking much longer, but this guy does so many drunk streams you can't even tell if he's seriously trying or just having fun.
Furthermore, I know that other scores are being hyped as well, but when it comes to having at least 2 shitpost in here and 10 thousand million replay of the same stream moment in youtube versus up to 1 post in here and a few videos on those plays in youtube, cookiezi is obviously overhyped to the point of being retarded
Granted, he literally dumpstered the top players in several area like highest pp plays or having highest concurrent stream viewers after coming back from a 2 year hiatus, but regarding rankings there's nothing special about him getting so far in so little time, so it doesn't deserves a shitpost like this
StephOsu wrote:
yeah cookiezi is #1 hr player in the world no doubt, but is it really necessary for people to create a post that deserves to be in off-topic of general discussion right here?
????Rules and Guidelines for GD wrote:
Just go to Gameplay & Ranking if you want to talk about osu! stuff, OK!
If you think a post should be in General Discussion, but it's about osu!, then it is right where it belongs when it is posted in G&R. It's not like GD is the place for lower quality posts, that's what OT is for.
okay i made a typo right there i meant to say off-topic or general discussion because there's some post that might look like it's for G&R but it's totally not related to eithersilmarilen wrote:
StephOsu wrote:
yeah cookiezi is #1 hr player in the world no doubt, but is it really necessary for people to create a post that deserves to be in off-topic of general discussion right here?????Rules and Guidelines for GD wrote:
Just go to Gameplay & Ranking if you want to talk about osu! stuff, OK!
If you think a post should be in General Discussion, but it's about osu!, then it is right where it belongs when it is posted in G&R. It's not like GD is the place for lower quality posts, that's what OT is for.
for example this shitpost
rip drum drumchainpullz wrote:
TL;DR mods are being lazy about not locking this thread.
I don't think you understand how the rankings work.Infevo wrote:
We all know that Cookiezi is not playing this game since 2 months. My point is that he racked up 10k pp within 1k play count while many others didn't within 100k and more. This fact does not merely show his outstanding consistency (which is not amazing? further consider, he didnt farm pp maps exclusively and he was not trying too hard to get to #3, yet.). It shows that his current potential is very likely to be much higher than anyone else's in the whole ranking system.CXu wrote:
You do realise that people don't automatically lose their skills from having no peppy points right? I forgot but someone did some janky calculation for what pp Cookiezi would have if he had all his old scores and whatnot, and it turned to be around 9k something I think. But anyhow, the point is, the only amazing thing about Cookiezi is whatever skill level he is at, not how fast he can get to the amount of pp that would reflect his skill level.
On another note, I'm pretty sure he had over 100k plays before his ban as well.
You don't just suddenly become good.
Here is another thought to process: since our pp system only perfectly reflects one's skill when all scores a player achieved grant the same amount of pp (in an ideal world where the algorithm also has perfect legitimacy and credibility) and the highest score would set the bar of representative potential, and Cookizie's top score beats everyone else's top scores by about 15%, you can quickly figure out how much his skill level is above everyone else's right now.
btw we should stay aware talking about skill based on the pp algorithm exclusively. just in case someone is about to hatch out of one's know-it-all hole again.
I didn't even see that typo, which means it doesn't change anything about the meaning behind my post.StephOsu wrote:
okay i made a typo right there i meant to say off-topic or general discussion because there's some post that might look like it's for G&R but it's totally not related to eithersilmarilen wrote:
????
If you think a post should be in General Discussion, but it's about osu!, then it is right where it belongs when it is posted in G&R. It's not like GD is the place for lower quality posts, that's what OT is for.
for example this shitpost
And that rip www post doesn't belong in GD either. In fact, it doesn't belong anywhere on the forum.
Why do you think that? How do you think I understand the rankings? How do the rankings actually work?CXu wrote:
I don't think you understand how the rankings work.
(the fact I have to waste my time to ask you 3 obvious questions you should've answered after your claim is boring. Don't waste my time.)
your statement that being able to get a lot of pp with a low amount of plays is amazing makes no sense unless you misudnerstood how the system works.Infevo wrote:
Why do you think that? How do you think I understand the rankings? How do the rankings actually work?CXu wrote:
I don't think you understand how the rankings work.
(the fact I have to waste my time to ask you 3 obvious questions you should've answered after your claim is boring. Don't waste my time.)
the way it does work: only your best scores are counted towards your pp, with the highest score being the only one giving its actual full value of pp to your total pp. All subsequent scores give only a percentage of their value as actual pp. this percentage drops lower for every score worse than another.
That's why a player can always climb back up to his previous rank after his account got wiped. He simpyl has to redo his highest value scores or something of equal difficulty.The thousands of scores that ppl like hvick have that give around 300 pp or less have zero effect on his pp.
coekzi
ZenithPhantasm
I don't see how your explanation, which was dispensable, contradicts anything I said. Neither can I recall making any claims about the ranking system which shouldn't be common sense by now.Zare wrote:
your statement that being able to get a lot of pp with a low amount of plays is amazing makes no sense unless you misudnerstood how the system works.Infevo wrote:
Why do you think that? How do you think I understand the rankings? How do the rankings actually work?
(the fact I have to waste my time to ask you 3 obvious questions you should've answered after your claim is boring. Don't waste my time.)
the way it does work: only your best scores are counted towards your pp, with the highest score being the only one giving its actual full value of pp to your total pp. All subsequent scores give only a percentage of their value as actual pp. this percentage drops lower for every score worse than another.
That's why a player can always climb back up to his previous rank after his account got wiped. He simpyl has to redo his highest value scores or something of equal difficulty.The thousands of scores that ppl like hvick have that give around 300 pp or less have zero effect on his pp.
And at no point did I claim pp is depending on play count exclusively. But allocating a certain amount takes plays and to top out one's own absolute pp in terms of potential is always gonna take a good portion of invested time. Even the most consistent players will need some thousand plays to make their pp represent their current skill level. It takes time, it takes plays, it takes dedication, it also sometimes requires the player to resort to pp/farm maps. And my point was that Cookiezi didn't need thousands of plays for #3, he didnt need to try too hard, he didnt need to spam farm maps. And while everyone else was still playing more than him he still gained rank #3 with ease which from my point of view is impressive to say the least. Now, if we know all this isn't it perfectly legitimate to assume his current skill level is far above anyone else's?
That's my whole point. And I felt it was necessary to get this across since people play his performance down while not even providing any proper reason.
I'm new to cookiezi what is osu!?
E m i
tell me how it works xdZare wrote:
your statement that being able to get a lot of pp with a low amount of plays is amazing makes no sense unless you misudnerstood how the system works.
okZare wrote:
the way it does work: only your best scores are counted towards your pp, with the highest score being the only one giving its actual full value of pp to your total pp. All subsequent scores give only a percentage of their value as actual pp. this percentage drops lower for every score worse than another.
would it take an amount of time?Zare wrote:
That's why a player can always climb back up to his previous rank after his account got wiped. He simpyl has to redo his highest value scores or something of equal difficulty.
what if you don't even have enough plays for any of them to have zero effect on your pp xddZare wrote:
The thousands of scores that ppl like hvick have that give around 300 pp or less have zero effect on his pp.
Infevo wrote:
And I agree and think this and some other facts are what makes it so impressive. He barely played. He barely tried hard. And he didn't farm pp maps primarily like most of the other top players (absolutely legitimate; no question).
I mean while everyone else had 100k+ plays on him and was trying hard and playing a lot for rank he was just back for so short and took #3 with ease.
If this does not impress the competitive osu! play enthusiasts I don't know what should. He could easily be around 13k pp now with just another 1k plays on top. Overhyping Cookiezi's current skill level is plainly not possible. And this thread deserves to exist imho.
Here's a snapshot from right before Cookiezi gets banned: https://web.archive.org/web/20130927000 ... py.sh/p/ppInfevo wrote:
I don't see how your explanation, which was dispensable, contradicts anything I said. Neither can I recall making any claims about the ranking system which shouldn't be common sense by now.
And at no point did I claim pp is depending on play count exclusively. But allocating a certain amount takes plays and to top out one's own absolute pp in terms of potential is always gonna take a good portion of invested time. Even the most consistent players will need some thousand plays to make their pp represent their current skill level. It takes time, it takes plays, it takes dedication, it also sometimes requires the player to resort to pp/farm maps. And my point was that Cookiezi didn't need thousands of plays for #3, he didnt need to try too hard, he didnt need to spam farm maps. And while everyone else was still playing more than him he still gained rank #3 with ease which from my point of view is impressive to say the least. Now, if we know all this isn't it perfectly legitimate to assume his current skill level is far above anyone else's?
That's my whole point. And I felt it was necessary to get this across since people play his performance down while not even providing any proper reason.
See how he has 110,405 plays? That amounts to a certain amount of skill, won't you agree? And that skill won't just magically disappear either, right? So why is it incredible that he farmed 10k pp within 1000 plays? If you were to reset hvick's account so he had 0 plays, he would still retain his current skills, and get back to where he is right now, or at least very close to his current pp within 1000 plays as well. Only your highest scores ever count towards your ranking, this means that the 100000 plays many players have spent from getting 1pp to 300pp scores counts more or less 0pp towards their overall rank. This is why the playcount is irrelevant. The only difference between Cookiezi's case and a hypothetical reset of hvick or rafis is that we don't know where Cookiezi's pp will cap. It might cap soon, or it might not cap until he reaches upwards to 13k pp as you're saying, but it's not going to be "easy".
As for your claim that Cookiezi doesn't play farm maps, how so? So since hvick/rafis can set multiple 500-600pp scores within a few hours, it's because they play farm maps, while Cookiezi doing the same isn't? Even though he also plays some of the same maps, while others he can't actually play yet because of speed/ar?
Don't get me wrong, Cookiezi is an amazing player, but you're getting excited about the wrong thing.
Edit: and fyi, it was still ppv1 back then.
End of fun.
@CXu / Zare / Infevo: You'll have to continue this discussion somewhere else.
And to everyone. If you have nothing to say, say nothing.
@CXu / Zare / Infevo: You'll have to continue this discussion somewhere else.
And to everyone. If you have nothing to say, say nothing.