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D(ABE3) - MANIERA [Taiko]

posted
Total Posts
291
show more
zigizigiefe
952 posts
Joined March 2013
zigizigiefe
OMG FREE PP INCOMING,DO IT ARRIVAL AND YUMUYA
m421
102 posts
Joined June 2014
m421

zigizigiefe wrote:

[maziari's Hell Oni]
  1. 00:14:392 (2,1) - The sound is 1/3.1/4 doublet seems awkward.
    >changed.
  2. 00:14:753 (2,1) - CTRL+G,because sound goes high and low
    >changed.
  3. 01:15:473 (2,3,4,1) - 1/6 4plet isn't bad idea but it is inconsistent.
    >changed.
  4. 01:32:348 (5,6,7) - Oh what the..Finishers are inconsistent imo
    >This is necessary for excitement imo.

Arrival wrote:

[maziari's Hell Oni]
01:16:626 (1,2,1) - Add a 1/6 burst here to be consistent with 01:15:473 (2,3,4,1) -
>deleted previous 1/6.
.osu
osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: MANIERA.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 17060
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Normal
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 1
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
DistanceSpacing: 1.3
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 32
TimelineZoom: 2.899999

[Metadata]
Title:MANIERA
TitleUnicode:MANIERA
Artist:D(ABE3)
ArtistUnicode:D(ABE3)
Creator:_yu68
Version:maziari's Hell Oni
Source:BMS
Tags:Abe Yuta Vulkin Mrriichi maziari1105
BeatmapID:941146
BeatmapSetID:400761

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:6.6
CircleSize:6.6
OverallDifficulty:6.6
ApproachRate:6.6
SliderMultiplier:1.4
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
0,0,"maniera.jpg",0,0
//Break Periods
//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 (Pass)
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples

[TimingPoints]
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120853,526.315789473684,4,1,0,90,1,8
120853,-54.9450549450549,4,1,0,90,0,8


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Vulkin
1,602 posts
Joined September 2014
Vulkin

Arrival wrote:

Such a long set zzzz yes this is no title 2

[Vulkin's Kantan]

00:58:310 (77,78) - Can't quite justify the placement of these two notes, I don't see a real rythmical sense behind them. I'd suggest just doing this trying to follow the piano's pitch change, i would change it for a simpler pattern but i dont know any, and the one you gave is a bit too dense imo, sorry ;_;

01:15:906 (15,17) - What about these two as finishers to emphasize on the big sounds ? wasnt sure whether to put finisher on those note due to the density of the notes, but seeing its possible, added!

01:41:581 (1) - Shorten the spinner to get a 2/1 break before the next note replaced entire thing with a single slider

02:00:236 (24,25) - I'd suggest replacing both notes for a spinner because beginners will have a hard time hitting the bpm change feels a bit empty, and dont really like it but thats some good point, so added
Thank you for your mod!

update
osu file format v14

[General]
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AudioLeadIn: 0
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Countdown: 0
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[Metadata]
Title:MANIERA
TitleUnicode:MANIERA
Artist:D(ABE3)
ArtistUnicode:D(ABE3)
Creator:_yu68
Version:Vulkin's Kantan
Source:BMS
Tags:abe yuta vulkin mrriichi maziari1105 maziari bof2011 dwmω encore piano
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OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
N-NANI
_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68

OzzyOzrock wrote:

N-NANI
Virtuoso is
Maya Tendo
196 posts
Joined February 2015
Maya Tendo

Arrival wrote:

Such a long set zzzz

[go to hell with mrriichi Hutsuu]

01:21:747 (154) - Missing the kat on purpose
to match with 01:20:665 (148,149,150,151,152) - . no change

01:26:362 - Make it a stream
Its already difficult pattern so I dont want to add some notes, and I want to match with 01:23:550 - . no change
変更なしで
Arrival
1,418 posts
Joined June 2012
Arrival
Recheck, no kd

Futsuu has a 1.2 SV whereas the Kantan has 1.4 SV, either put both to 1.4 or 1.2, or only put Kantan with 1.2 and futsuu to 1.3, choice is yours

[Kantan]

01:42:735 - Reduce the slider to the previous white tick and add a don here, it will fit better since its a beginning of a rhytmic sequence

[Futsuu]

01:56:870 (1) - The long string of note may seem a bit too much for a futsuu, I'd suggest deleting this one.

Maziari's hell oni is a gift from heaven

Rest is fine. pm me for bubble after you fixed everything
Vulkin
1,602 posts
Joined September 2014
Vulkin

Arrival wrote:

Recheck, no kd

Futsuu has a 1.2 SV whereas the Kantan has 1.4 SV, either put both to 1.4 or 1.2, or only put Kantan with 1.2 and futsuu to 1.3, choice is yours ill decrease the sv on my diff owo

[Kantan]
01:42:735 - Reduce the slider to the previous white tick and add a don here, it will fit better since its a beginning of a rhytmic sequence OK

Arrival wrote:

pm me for bubble after you fixed everything
*more intensifying*

Thanks for your re-check ^^

Update
osu file format v14

[General]
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AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 17060
Countdown: 0
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StackLeniency: 0.7
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DistanceSpacing: 1.3
BeatDivisor: 2
GridSize: 32
TimelineZoom: 1.7

[Metadata]
Title:MANIERA
TitleUnicode:MANIERA
Artist:D(ABE3)
ArtistUnicode:D(ABE3)
Creator:_yu68
Version:Vulkin's Kantan
Source:BMS
Tags:abe yuta vulkin mrriichi maziari1105 maziari bof2011 dwmω encore piano
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BeatmapSetID:400761

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_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68

Arrival wrote:

Recheck, no kd

[Futsuu]

01:56:870 (1) - The long string of note may seem a bit too much for a futsuu, I'd suggest deleting this one. :arrow: I deleted instead 01:56:293 - 01:57:447 - in order to emphasize K notes.

Maziari's hell oni is a gift from heaven

Rest is fine. pm me for bubble after you fixed everything
Thank you~
Arrival
1,418 posts
Joined June 2012
Arrival
Extremely fun set, everything is ready for me. Good luck !

Bubbled !
_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68
thanks!!
zigizigiefe
952 posts
Joined March 2013
zigizigiefe
GIVE ME MY PPS YUMUYA PLS
omg qualify incoming
LowAccuracySS
605 posts
Joined October 2015
LowAccuracySS
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Surono
7,195 posts
Joined November 2013
Surono
WAT
HomieLove
Beatmap Nominator
305 posts
Joined July 2016
HomieLove

[ Space ] wrote:

aaaaaaaaaaaa
Vulkin
1,602 posts
Joined September 2014
Vulkin
HYPE!!!
Jonah
18 posts
Joined January 2015
Jonah
Maniera has two different faces

Rage of Maniera in Osu!Mania
Heaven of Maniera in Osu!Taiko
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
hello, sorry yumuya this is a veto

[Virtuoso]
I'm pretty sure you know the drill. Those sneaky 1/8 doubles that you have there:
00:31:916 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -
00:34:224 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -

I know you put good intention on it. You might even justify this with a musical concept called "Grace note", yet I still think this does not fit neither the atmosphere nor the song. Grace notes are an interesting concept but if you ask me, not suitable for a gamemode such as Taiko, specially considering there are other things to represent in the song such as the potent kicks going on at 00:35:450 - 00:35:486 - 00:35:522 - (even they are 1/8). Regardless, the second wave of doublets are misplaced: the grace notes are being played earlier than the white and red ticks, not later.

Therefore, I will be using my right as a nominator to veto this map until further argumentation and agreements have been made.

My personal suggestion on the second wave of 1/8 doubles is simple: keep as few 1/8 as possible, and map the potent kicks as 1/4 triplets or finishers. This way you would have a nice balance of different gameplay elements, instead of a single 1/8 double section that plays like a long string of finishers, which if you ask me, do not fit at all the intensity.

Other things:
  1. 00:08:503 - Why are spots like these left blank? The piano is going full 1/3. On a higher end difficulty like this, I see little justification for the breaks.
  2. 00:12:830 - I understand breaks like these even if percussion is still going 1/3, since you are following the piano.
  3. 00:17:060 (1) - Soft crash here that indicates new stanza, maybe use a finisher here?
  4. 00:18:863 - Missed a mappable 1/4
  5. 00:21:676 (1) - Similarly as 00:17:060 (1) -
  6. 00:25:137 (1,1,1,1) - Piano does a funny 1/6 here, if you listen closely you'll hear 4 notes between 00:25:210 - and 00:25:426 - , it's a good spot for a (dddk) maybe?
  7. 00:49:873 - Should probably fill this out since it's still 1/6
  8. 01:00:089 (1,1) - This doublet is confusing, what is the first note representing? Starting from here 00:59:753 - the piano is already doing faint 1/3, I recommend mapping the entire section as 1/3.
  9. 01:43:408 - Similarly as in the beginning, I can't see why you skip these notes.
  10. 01:49:658 (1) - 01:50:812 (1) - 01:51:966 (1) - 01:53:120 (1) - These definitely deserve a finisher, potent crashes on all of them
That is all, the rest of the map is pretty neat. Feel free to gather some more opinions, specially on those 1/8, then talk to me again.
Nofool
Elite Mapper
1,102 posts
Joined February 2011
Nofool

Raiden wrote:

hello, sorry yumuya this is a veto

[Virtuoso]
I'm pretty sure you know the drill. Those sneaky 1/8 doubles that you have there:
00:31:916 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -
00:34:224 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -

I know you put good intention on it. You might even justify this with a musical concept called "Grace note", yet I still think this does not fit neither the atmosphere nor the song. Grace notes are an interesting concept but if you ask me, not suitable for a gamemode such as Taiko, specially considering there are other things to represent in the song such as the potent kicks going on at 00:35:450 - 00:35:486 - 00:35:522 - (even they are 1/8). Regardless, the second wave of doublets are misplaced: the grace notes are being played earlier than the white and red ticks, not later.

Therefore, I will be using my right as a nominator to veto this map until further argumentation and agreements have been made.

My personal suggestion on the second wave of 1/8 doubles is simple: keep as few 1/8 as possible, and map the potent kicks as 1/4 triplets or finishers. This way you would have a nice balance of different gameplay elements, instead of a single 1/8 double section that plays like a long string of finishers, which if you ask me, do not fit at all the intensity.

"this does not fit neither the atmosphere nor the song" ? even tho the snapping is not correct this is pretty close to what we can hear and above anything this is the the best way to map this part if you want to use 1/8, placing them "earlier" would make it extremely awkward to play and yu clearly made a playability choice there.

"interesting concept, not suitable for taiko" welp did you create taiko or something? this plays well and is easy to handle so not sure why this would not be suitable for literaly the entire gamemode lol. the "other things to represent" you are talking are barely hearable while playing, especialy compared to those fast piano notes so if anything the result would just be awkward in game.

you are suggesting him to blindly follow the most accurate possible sound saying that the result will fit more the intensity or something? lol those 1/8 perfectly fit the intensity in my point of view so i hope you get some deeper explanations. as a supposedly experienced mapper you should know that following the exact timing of the song sometimes gives bad results in term of playabilty/flow etc and i would say that this is the case here.

if anything i would strongly recommend to remove - 00:31:916 (1,1) - and - 00:34:224 (1,1) -, first to emphasize the previous 1/4 quintuplets and second to show the player, with breaks, that the piano's rhythm is changing. i believe the rhythm transition will be better and less awkward to play with those breaks.

so about that veto i will just act as another opinion : i DISAGREE, this should absolutely not be an unrankable issue.
k3v227
80 posts
Joined September 2015
k3v227

Raiden wrote:

Grace notes are an interesting concept but if you ask me, not suitable for a gamemode such as Taiko, specially considering there are other things to represent in the song such as the potent kicks going on at 00:35:450 - 00:35:486 - 00:35:522 - (even they are 1/8).
If you don't think grace notes are suitable for Taiko then why would you bubble Road of Resistance and Fury of the Storm? Seems strange :thinking:
Maitgon
7 posts
Joined September 2014
Maitgon

Nofool wrote:

you are suggesting him to blindly follow the most accurate possible sound saying that the result will fit more the intensity or something? lol those 1/8 perfectly fit the intensity in my point of view so i hope you get some deeper explanations. as a supposedly experienced mapper you should know that following the exact timing of the song sometimes gives bad results in term of playabilty/flow etc and i would say that this is the case here.
Well, I think that is because you are usually used to hit notes on time better than off time, but it just fit better in term of sound and in term of playability

Nofool wrote:

if anything i would strongly recommend to remove - 00:31:916 (1,1) - and - 00:34:224 (1,1) -, first to emphasize the previous 1/4 quintuplets and second to show the player, with breaks, that the piano's rhythm is changing. i believe the rhythm transition will be better and less awkward to play with those breaks.
Removing that is a really good idea, even more if you change the 1/8 to fit more with the sound
Surono
7,195 posts
Joined November 2013
Surono

k3v227 wrote:

Raiden wrote:

Grace notes are an interesting concept but if you ask me, not suitable for a gamemode such as Taiko, specially considering there are other things to represent in the song such as the potent kicks going on at 00:35:450 - 00:35:486 - 00:35:522 - (even they are 1/8).
If you don't think grace notes are suitable for Taiko then why would you bubble Road of Resistance and Fury of the Storm? Seems strange :thinking:
both of that metal song is really suitable as 1/8, the guitar play like mario coins sound and have like high impact. in this song, seems too over with the second part from 00:35:522 - here. in mania version.. its 1/16 snap doubles but for taiko 1/8 is too late. enough with 1/2
_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68

Raiden wrote:

hello, sorry yumuya this is a veto

[Virtuoso]
I'm pretty sure you know the drill. Those sneaky 1/8 doubles that you have there:
00:31:916 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -
00:34:224 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -

I know you put good intention on it. You might even justify this with a musical concept called "Grace note", yet I still think this does not fit neither the atmosphere nor the song. Grace notes are an interesting concept but if you ask me, not suitable for a gamemode such as Taiko, specially considering there are other things to represent in the song such as the potent kicks going on at 00:35:450 - 00:35:486 - 00:35:522 - (even they are 1/8). Regardless, the second wave of doublets are misplaced: the grace notes are being played earlier than the white and red ticks, not later. :arrow: Grace notes surely are being played earlier than the white and red ticks but I think the rhythm will become too complicated if I snap a that matches it

Therefore, I will be using my right as a nominator to veto this map until further argumentation and agreements have been made.

My personal suggestion on the second wave of 1/8 doubles is simple: keep as few 1/8 as possible, and map the potent kicks as 1/4 triplets or finishers. This way you would have a nice balance of different gameplay elements, instead of a single 1/8 double section that plays like a long string of finishers, which if you ask me, do not fit at all the intensity. :arrow: changed to finishers 00:34:368 - 00:35:522 - 00:36:676 - 00:37:253 - . I keep other 1/8 doublets, for same reason as your suggestion in 00:08:503 -

Other things:
  1. 00:08:503 - Why are spots like these left blank? The piano is going full 1/3. On a higher end difficulty like this, I see little justification for the breaks. :arrow: added 1/3s
  2. 00:12:830 - I understand breaks like these even if percussion is still going 1/3, since you are following the piano. :arrow: so true i followed the piano.
  3. 00:17:060 (1) - Soft crash here that indicates new stanza, maybe use a finisher here? :arrow: keep since sound is not strong
  4. 00:18:863 - Missed a mappable 1/4 :arrow: added
  5. 00:21:676 (1) - Similarly as 00:17:060 (1) - :arrow: same
  6. 00:25:137 (1,1,1,1) - Piano does a funny 1/6 here, if you listen closely you'll hear 4 notes between 00:25:210 - and 00:25:426 - , it's a good spot for a (dddk) maybe? :arrow: added 1/6 dddk
  7. 00:49:873 - Should probably fill this out since it's still 1/6 :arrow: i want to enphasize sound at 00:49:945 -
  8. 01:00:089 (1,1) - This doublet is confusing, what is the first note representing? Starting from here 00:59:753 - the piano is already doing faint 1/3, I recommend mapping the entire section as 1/3. :arrow: i feel it matches drum and piano
  9. 01:43:408 - Similarly as in the beginning, I can't see why you skip these notes. :arrow: same
  10. 01:49:658 (1) - 01:50:812 (1) - 01:51:966 (1) - 01:53:120 (1) - These definitely deserve a finisher, potent crashes on all of them :arrow: added finishers
That is all, the rest of the map is pretty neat. Feel free to gather some more opinions, specially on those 1/8, then talk to me again.
Thanks.
_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68

Surono wrote:

in this song, seems too over with the second part from 00:35:522 - here. in mania version.. its 1/16 snap doubles but for taiko 1/8 is too late. enough with 1/2
1/8 doublets and 1/2s are very different. On one hand, piano sounds are not very different, so I think 1/8 doublets are most suitable.
Surono
7,195 posts
Joined November 2013
Surono
rip 8*
05:24 _yu68: Hi, I have a question about my map.
05:24 Surono: ....... yes
05:24 *_yu68 is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/871924 D(ABE3) - MANIERA [Virtuoso]]
05:24 _yu68: I have updated this map
05:24 _yu68: Do you think current this pattern is rankable?
05:24 Surono: where is
05:25 _yu68: 00:34:368 -
05:25 _yu68: ~ 00:38:984 -
05:26 Surono: 00:34:368 - from here, I can agree this. but "at least" 00:36:423 (342,344) - delete these
05:26 Surono: bcus the high sounds are on single sounds.
05:26 _yu68: i see
05:27 _yu68: Is it rankable if I remove the two?
05:27 Surono: yep
05:27 _yu68: Thanks.

at least removed those 00:36:423 - 00:36:568 - lul for emphsizd singlesounds paino, good luck.
Arrival
1,418 posts
Joined June 2012
Arrival
The part plays way worse than before.

I'll stick to Nofool's suggestion. 00:31:916 (285,286,313,314) - This should be removed, but every 1/8 should be left as they were before the change.

Let's wait until more opinions come.
zigizigiefe
952 posts
Joined March 2013
zigizigiefe
Since we follow piano sound, 00:25:354 (223) - There is no piano sound,delete it for this reason and making here more comfortable
that song is pretty fun,your map either.Can't wait for rank ;w;
_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68

Arrival wrote:

The part plays way worse than before.

I'll stick to Nofool's suggestion. 00:31:916 (285,286,313,314) - This should be removed, but every 1/8 should be left as they were before the change.

Let's wait until more opinions come.
Ok. I almost change it to before patterns for now. However, I'll keep 00:36:387 - 00:36:532 - since 1/8 doublets here is not suitable for sound.
I also deleted 00:31:916 - 00:34:224 - .

I gather more opinions.

zigizigiefe wrote:

Since we follow piano sound, 00:25:354 (223) - There is no piano sound,delete it for this reason and making here more comfortable
I hear the piano is continued until 00:25:714 - so keep it. Sorry :(
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

Nofool wrote:

"this does not fit neither the atmosphere nor the song" ? even tho the snapping is not correct this is pretty close to what we can hear and above anything this is the the best way to map this part if you want to use 1/8, placing them "earlier" would make it extremely awkward to play and yu clearly made a playability choice there.

"interesting concept, not suitable for taiko" welp did you create taiko or something? this plays well and is easy to handle so not sure why this would not be suitable for literaly the entire gamemode lol. the "other things to represent" you are talking are barely hearable while playing, especialy compared to those fast piano notes so if anything the result would just be awkward in game.
Playing well and easy to handle =/= being good. This should be widely known by now.

As far as I know, the concept is mainly used for piano songs. And as far as I know as well, taiko is not a piano simulator. And the rest of the argument, if anything, would backfire against you? "Barely hearable" are the grace notes, so what you are saying is the part should be entirely 1/2, which is what majority of normal players are hearing in the song.

Nofool wrote:

you are suggesting him to blindly follow the most accurate possible sound saying that the result will fit more the intensity or something? lol those 1/8 perfectly fit the intensity in my point of view so i hope you get some deeper explanations. as a supposedly experienced mapper you should know that following the exact timing of the song sometimes gives bad results in term of playabilty/flow etc and i would say that this is the case here.
When am I suggesting to blindly follow something? I can't see anything like that in my post. And with intensity I meant that song does not increase it, the amount of notes played by instrument is stale, the pitch has not risen further, etc. Heck, if you compare it with the previous section 00:21:676 - you could even argue it's more allegro.

Nofool wrote:

so about that veto i will just act as another opinion : i DISAGREE, this should absolutely not be an unrankable issue.
It seems this is still widely a huge misconception. Vetoing something does not necessarily mean the map is unrankable, it is simply a right for nominators to use when they do not agree to see something ranked and needs therefore further discussion.

k3v227 wrote:

If you don't think grace notes are suitable for Taiko then why would you bubble Road of Resistance and Fury of the Storm? Seems strange :thinking:
However, as far as I know RoR and FotS do not have grace notes, they have something called guitar tremolo which essentially is a "vibration".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for yumuya: the section sounds much better now, even if I'm still reluctant about those 1/8s. I'll be happy to lift the veto if you can give me further explanation on why you are rejecting the other alternatives (1/2, 1/4 triples, etc.).
_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68

Raiden wrote:

Now for yumuya: the section sounds much better now, even if I'm still reluctant about those 1/8s. I'll be happy to lift the veto if you can give me further explanation on why you are rejecting the other alternatives (1/2, 1/4 triples, etc.).
The reason why I reject your suggestions is to represent the unique sounds.
1/2, 1/4 triplets, etc can be placed even if the song doesn't have sounds this like.
However, 1/8 doublets can't be placed if the song doesn't have sounds this like.
I think that placing 1/2 or 1/4 triplets in this part is to waste the individuality of the song.
Mapping that make use of the individuality in the song. I believe it will be a good one.
Hence, I think 1/8 is most suitable for the song.
k3v227
80 posts
Joined September 2015
k3v227

Raiden wrote:

k3v227 wrote:

If you don't think grace notes are suitable for Taiko then why would you bubble Road of Resistance and Fury of the Storm? Seems strange :thinking:
However, as far as I know RoR and FotS do not have grace notes, they have something called guitar tremolo which essentially is a "vibration".
Grace notes (not this) in Fury of the Storm: 02:13:452 (607,608,609,610,611,612) - and 02:14:652 (617,618,619,620,621,622) . If you don't know the difference between grace notes and the guitar tremolo technique then you should be more cautious with your bubbles and vetoes.

Raiden wrote:

Now for yumuya: the section sounds much better now, even if I'm still reluctant about those 1/8s. I'll be happy to lift the veto if you can give me further explanation on why you are rejecting the other alternatives (1/2, 1/4 triples, etc.).
Seeing as you've willingly ranked both grace notes and the guitar tremolo technique in the past, the 1/8 were reasonable the way they were in this map before you vetoed. You could have vetoed the 1/8s in either the previous maps and asserted that a less-important element of the song be mapped instead, but there was no justification needed then.

_yu68 wrote:

The reason why I reject your suggestions is to represent the unique sounds.
1/2, 1/4 triplets, etc can be placed even if the song doesn't have sounds this like.
However, 1/8 doublets can't be placed if the song doesn't have sounds this like.
I think that placing 1/2 or 1/4 triplets in this part is to waste the individuality of the song.
Mapping that make use of the individuality in the song. I believe it will be a good one.
Hence, I think 1/8 is most suitable for the song.
The piano is playing doubled 1/8 notes during these two sections, this is clearly a piano-lead song, so therefore it is most reasonable to map the dominant element here. Maziari's Hell Oni is more aligned with what Raiden seems to be suggesting, but why should these two diffs be redundant here? The 1/8 give the Virtuoso diff it's individuality like yu68 is saying.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
Seeing there cannot be a possible agreement on removing 1/8, I'd be fine if they were accurately placed before the ticks instead of after. I just tested it and plays fine, even better after the removal of the previous 1/4 notes in between. Like this (cursor at 00:34:729 - )

@k3v227: checked both of them thouroughly (guitar and piano tab together), little has to do the piano with the clear woosh sound the guitar does (which is after the tick even)
Additionally, that is the past and different cases.

edit: little other things

[Mrrichi's Inner Oni]
00:02:061 (1,2,3) - Consider lowering the volume of these 3 notes for obvious reasons

Futsuu's SV could be 1.2. At Normal level beginners should not be babied too much, they should learn to read 1.4. If this was a case of like 240 BPM I wouldn't mind
_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68

Raiden wrote:

Seeing there cannot be a possible agreement on removing 1/8, I'd be fine if they were accurately placed before the ticks instead of after. I just tested it and plays fine, even better after the removal of the previous 1/4 notes in between. Like this (cursor at 00:34:729 - )
I think 1/8 doublets starting at yellow ticks is hard to read and play.
The sounds surely start at yellow ticks, but I hear the sounds are connecting after red ticks and white ticks, so I can put notes there.
Also, I think 1/8 doublets starting at red ticks and white ticks can emphasize the drums of background.


edit:I changed SV in Futsuu. (1.20 -> 1.40)
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
Being hard to read and play is the whole purpose of a higher difficulty tier such as Virtuoso, plus you'd be being more accurate with the music. In any case, I could read and play it no problem, and I am certainly not a very high tier player :(

So the hard to read and play argument is not going to work too well on me.
Maya Tendo
196 posts
Joined February 2015
Maya Tendo

Raiden wrote:

...Chromoxxxxが英訳してくれます。

[Mrrichi's Inner Oni]
00:02:061 (1,2,3) - Consider lowering the volume of these 3 notes for obvious reasons
えっと、まず何が"明らかな"理由にあたるのかがわかりません。ここは譜面の一番最初ですし最初だけ音が小さいというのはプレイヤーが自分の叩いた音を聞いて序盤のリズムを取るという事をやりづらくします。また、もしここの音量を変えるのなら他の配置でも音量を変えなければ全体のバランスが取れないところがあると思いますし、全体を変えるか全部変えないかでどちらかと言われたら僕は全部同じな方が好みというか、叩く配置によって音量が違うというのは個人的に受け付けられないものもあるので、全体の配置の音量の調整を完璧にしてその一部としてのこの配置の音量を変えるという案があるのなら承諾するかもですが、ここだけ小さくというのは最初に言った理由も含めて承諾できません。もしどうしても小さくしないとrankedでマズイなんて話があったらrankedする際にmapsetから削除してもらうかタダのUra Oniとかに名前を変えて僕の名前を消してもらって構わないです。
no change
_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68

Raiden wrote:

Being hard to read and play is the whole purpose of a higher difficulty tier such as Virtuoso, plus you'd be being more accurate with the music. In any case, I could read and play it no problem, and I am certainly not a very high tier player :(
The map is difficult enough because of long 1/3 stream and high density. I think the difficulty given by 1/8 doublets starting at yellow ticks is unreasonable.
Also, I think it's a bit strange to ignore the drum by placing too much emphasis on the start point of the piano. Since the starting point of the piano is ambiguous, I think players can't feel during play it. It's better to focus more on the starting point of the drum.

1/8 doublets are emphasizing the sounds of drum and the atmosphere of piano. About the difficulty is not the main agenda.
I think 1/8 doublets starting at yellow ticks are not suitable for sound when seeing both the sounds of drum and the sounds of piano.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
Alright. I see no reason on keeping to insist more because we are going to run in circles, plus a middle ground has already been made.

Back.
_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68

Raiden wrote:

Alright. I see no reason on keeping to insist more because we are going to run in circles, plus a middle ground has already been made.

Back.
Thank you so much!
zigizigiefe
952 posts
Joined March 2013
zigizigiefe

Raiden wrote:

hello, sorry yumuya this is a veto

[Virtuoso]
I'm pretty sure you know the drill. Those sneaky 1/8 doubles that you have there:
00:31:916 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -
00:34:224 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -

I know you put good intention on it. You might even justify this with a musical concept called "Grace note", yet I still think this does not fit neither the atmosphere nor the song. Grace notes are an interesting concept but if you ask me, not suitable for a gamemode such as Taiko, specially considering there are other things to represent in the song such as the potent kicks going on at 00:35:450 - 00:35:486 - 00:35:522 - (even they are 1/8). Regardless, the second wave of doublets are misplaced: the grace notes are being played earlier than the white and red ticks, not later.

Therefore, I will be using my right as a nominator to veto this map until further argumentation and agreements have been made.

My personal suggestion on the second wave of 1/8 doubles is simple: keep as few 1/8 as possible, and map the potent kicks as 1/4 triplets or finishers. This way you would have a nice balance of different gameplay elements, instead of a single 1/8 double section that plays like a long string of finishers, which if you ask me, do not fit at all the intensity.
Although I am very late to tell my opinions,I want to do.

I still think this does not fit neither the atmosphere nor the song :arrow: When yumuya change the patterns according to your opinions,it looks worse with those finishers which don't fit to the song.Players don't need to emphasize strong rhythm sounds everytime if there are stronger one.Now it looks good.
In my opinion, 00:31:916 - 00:34:224 - there are "grace notes" though,even if they're weaker than others and should be emphasized.
_yu68
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2017
492 posts
Joined March 2015
Topic Starter
_yu68

zigizigiefe wrote:

When yumuya change the patterns according to your opinions,it looks worse with those finishers which don't fit to the song.Players don't need to emphasize strong rhythm sounds everytime if there are stronger one.Now it looks good.
In my opinion, 00:31:916 - 00:34:224 - there are "grace notes" though,even if they're weaker than others and should be emphasized.
By making 1/1 here, I think it can emphasize the strong drum that ringing in background, but I may add 1/2 if it's not unrankable.
I'll entrust to Raiden or Arrival to decide whether it's unrankable.
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