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posted
Do we really need to control what mappers use as their backgrounds? There are enough rules already, this is just unnecessary. Let people choose what they want. Of course Loctav would DQ for something like that.
posted

B1rd wrote:

Do we really need to control what mappers use as their backgrounds? There are enough rules already, this is just unnecessary. Let people choose what they want. Of course Loctav would DQ for something like that.
This exactly the aptitude we're trying to avoid. What's the point of choose any bg if it's going to be DQ'ed for irrelevant bg chose? The idea is those new mappers that don't know what to choose can know the bg should be related to the beatmap source /lyrics / anything context of the song. The idea is to avoid such as unnecessary DQs and allow mappers and modders realize the important fact to choose a proper BG for their maps.
posted
dude don't make it a rule
judging the appropriateness of a background is subjective unless it's something outright dumb.
I agree that Background should be relevant but limiting people to relevant things only can be pretty dumb when the actual theme etc doesn't provide any relevant material that looks nice or something (I'm having that problem with a lot of instrumental music i mapped and apparently accidentally chose a Touhou-related BG because it was the best pick available)
Also what's considerable to be appropriate or inappropriate differs from person to person (hints at anime op maps with uhh irrelevant anime bgs such as xxdeathx's somewhat famous set because there was not any decent bg material available at the time and idk if there is any now)

Just to clarify it should be a guideline so it can be broken when providing reasoning that makes sense
posted

Baraatje123 wrote:

I agree with this, I always disliked the illogical BGs
Same
posted
totally agreed with Okoratu, this should be a guideline not a rule. nvm, already saw alot of extreme cases XD
posted

HappyRocket88 wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Do we really need to control what mappers use as their backgrounds? There are enough rules already, this is just unnecessary. Let people choose what they want. Of course Loctav would DQ for something like that.
This exactly the aptitude we're trying to avoid.
Yep.

HappyRocket88 wrote:

What's the point of choose any bg if it's going to be DQ'ed for irrelevant bg chose? The idea is those new mappers that don't know what to choose can know the bg should be related to the beatmap source /lyrics / anything context of the song. The idea is to avoid such as unnecessary DQs and allow mappers and modders realize the important fact to choose a proper BG for their maps.
The point is maps shouldn't be DQ because of their background. If it's not related to the song in some tangible way, so what? Why does it matter? Mappers should have more freedom and not have every part of their maps controlled by the BAT or QAT or whatever.
posted
It's not as clearcut in a lot of cases. What if the song is completely instrumental, with an ambiguous title? At that point it's up to interpretation and you can't really draw the line. This should be a guideline.
posted
Well, we really should define if it's a guideline or a rule :')

deetz wrote:

It's not as clearcut in a lot of cases. What if the song is completely instrumental, with an ambiguous title? At that point it's up to interpretation and you can't really draw the line. This should be a guideline.
Well, HappyRocket talked about "contexts". I really understand the choice of this word since it kind of represents all of the characteristics; look at my last ranked beatmap. Well, it's an instrumental song; this sound is kind of melancholic and the background seems too; even though the song is talking about breaking, the context here is still present. (at least for me)
posted
First, replace illogical with irrelevant. There is a difference.

Also, what about storyboarded maps that depend on their background? Ex: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/128645 or my magnolia map.
If this rule will be a thing, you should also add that a decent bg should be added for those idiots that disable sb.

Next: where is the line: tv-sizes use the anime they came from. Games songs the game they came from, but if it's from sfdx or whatever it's called, then find something what fits the style and overall style and feeling of the music. You can use pictures of the artist, album, ... Of course this isn't always 100% clear, and then the 2 (or 3) bn's that rank it should be able to judge them case by case (and ask help at qat's when it's impossible to find something relevant)

For the earlier example watercolour, you can even use a waterdrop if you want. It doesn't always have to be hard, right?
posted

inspectorscout wrote:

First, replace illogical with irrelevant. There is a difference.

Also, what about storyboarded maps that depend on their background? Ex: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/128645 or my magnolia map.
If this rule will be a thing, you should also add that a decent bg should be added for those idiots that disable sb.

Next: where is the line: tv-sizes use the anime they came from. Games songs the game they came from, but if it's from sfdx or whatever it's called, then find something what fits the style and overall style and feeling of the music. You can use pictures of the artist, album, ... Of course this isn't always 100% clear, and then the 2 (or 3) bn's that rank it should be able to judge them case by case (and ask help at qat's when it's impossible to find something relevant)

For the earlier example watercolour, you can even use a waterdrop if you want. It doesn't always have to be hard, right?
Well, for the Magnolia mapset, the background is somehow related to the storyboard. But I think we should not say that the background must be related to the song or something like that, but we should say that the background should not be totally out of context (like lolis on nightcore songs or lemur on japanese music).
Still need any clarifications on Guideline/Rule.

✓ Changed illogical to irrelevant.
✓ Tried to make a new rule -to wait until if what I said is a good idea-

EDIT: Well, I'm thinking also about abstract background, I think they should be excluded of the rule, since it's... abstract?
posted
This informative post will be deleted anyway, just move along
posted
Something this subjective should never be a rule :P. Ranking Criteria rules are meant to be objective and not available to differing interpretations. If multiple interpretations are possible then the rule cannot be reliably enforced.
posted

monstrata wrote:

Something this subjective should never be a rule :P. Ranking Criteria rules are meant to be objective and not available to differing interpretations. If multiple interpretations are possible then the rule cannot be reliably enforced.
Well, that's what I'm currently thinking of, since disqualify can happen with a wrong BG, this should be taken more seriously than "oh, it should just be a guideline, that's not bad at all if the background can be out of context".
I'm currently talking with inspectorscout on IRC about that, and we're trying to find a way to make it more like logical; we're currently thinking of the ranking process: well, BNs can check if the background is relevant during the ranking process right? Since there's at least two BNs who check the beatmap before the ranking status, they can already check background's relevance and judge by themselves its utilisation, and by being at least two, if the first one is wrong, the second one can still correct that.

If you want to talk about it, send me an IRC message :)

EDIT: If there's any doubts about the background, they can still ask to the QATs.
EDIT2: Moved to Guideline
posted
Okay, we talked about the guideline with monstrata and inspectorscout and I've updated it; check out the original post and let's discuss about it~
posted
You guys are and always were aware that everything should fit the theme. Every imagery, should fit the theme at least at some degree. Do you really need rule for everything? Use your brain, RC is here just to clarify things that are not 100% obvious. If you think about: "Let's add some handsome guy here, because he's cute." instead of: "Let's find something that makes sense with the song.", then provide a logical argument for why'd that have higher priority. (other maps is not argument) - If you cannot provide argument on what you've done and why is it used, then don't use it. If something cannot be protected by any argument, it logically doesn't need to be forbidden by Ranking Criteria. Every single one of you can think logically and can realize that insensible makes less sense than sensible and therefore insensible should be omitted.

Apart from that checking genius never harms to get inspired for background pick. Not talking exactly about CV's map, but it doesn't make sense to make this a rule. That's like using rule: "Don't take GDs from ranked mapsets." - Everyone can realize you'd steal other's map + we don't need two identical maps. Everyone can use their brain to eliminate insensible things like these. No rule is needed.
posted

Wafu wrote:

You guys are and always were aware that everything should fit the theme. Every imagery, should fit the theme at least at some degree. Do you really need rule for everything? Use your brain, RC is here just to clarify things that are not 100% obvious. If you think about: "Let's add some handsome guy here, because he's cute." instead of: "Let's find something that makes sense with the song.", then provide a logical argument for why'd that have higher priority. (other maps is not argument) - If you cannot provide argument on what you've done and why is it used, then don't use it. If something cannot be protected by any argument, it logically doesn't need to be forbidden by Ranking Criteria. Every single one of you can think logically and can realize that insensible makes less sense than sensible and therefore insensible should be omitted.

Apart from that checking genius never harms to get inspired for background pick. Not talking exactly about CV's map, but it doesn't make sense to make this a rule. That's like using rule: "Don't take GDs from ranked mapsets." - Everyone can realize you'd steal other's map + we don't need two identical maps. Everyone can use their brain to eliminate insensible things like these. No rule is needed.
Well, for stealing other diffs, it's forbidden, we've seen this everywhere, and most of the nuked beatmaps are because of this. People are aware of this; the fact that doesn't do this or put a random background is only logic (I'm not saying that they're not logic, there can be something behind this). This kind of DQ were never seen in osu! before, that's why we should warn people. Overall, if a DQ would have been done on some Lemur's mapset without any reasons, or clarifications about it (to be honest, we never heard about that, even though I found illogical to put a random background, I said nothing, cuz IT WAS NOT FORBIDDEN) there would have been so much shittalk and drama about it. Let's avoid that, can we? The best way to make people not making drama about it is to officialize the rule. If this rule wouldn't have been officialized, there wouldn't be any reasons to DQ CV's mapset. And for the "stealing diffs on other mapset", it is officialized.
posted

Zerss wrote:

Well, for stealing other diffs, it's forbidden, we've seen this everywhere, and most of the nuked beatmaps are because of this. People are aware of this; the fact that doesn't do this or put a random background is only logic (I'm not saying that they're not logic, there can be something behind this). This kind of DQ were never seen in osu! before, that's why we should warn people. Overall, if a DQ would have been done on some Lemur's mapset without any reasons, or clarifications about it (to be honest, we never heard about that, even though I found illogical to put a random background, I said nothing, cuz IT WAS NOT FORBIDDEN) there would have been so much shittalk and drama about it. Let's avoid that, can we? The best way to make people not making drama about it is to officialize the rule. If this rule wouldn't have been officialized, there wouldn't be any reasons to DQ CV's mapset. And for the "stealing diffs on other mapset", it is officialized.
Afaik only this is mentioned, that would mean if you ask mapper whether you can take GD from his ranked mapset, then it would be rankable, but logically, it isn't.

Ranking Criteria wrote:

If you are using any elements created by another community member, ask permission beforehand. Respecting the work of others is paramount and most people will be delighted to have their work featured in your projects!
But what's the point. Adding a rule won't avoid drama. If you don't know how does modding system work now, then first we DQ and then we discuss till conclusion is done - we may raise simply anything. If mapper cannot provide an argument that would allow him to keep the issue, then he must change it. There must be reason behind everything and beatmaps can be disqualified for many things that are not mentioned in ranking criteria. We could make rule for every issue that was disqualified, which wouldn't even avoid drama, because it would be full of text. Every single issue could be listed here, which would make it infinite list of criteria which nobody would read after all.

Realize what is Qualified section and DQs about. It's not punishment, it's enhancing the map. People are too much concerned about DQ - scores will be wiped anyway and map won't be harmed at all, just the mapper will be forced to express himself or fix issues.

IT WAS NOT FORBIDDEN
That's simply referring to older maps. We ensure quality, if map with issues passed to ranked section, we can't do anything about it. But as long as it's qualified, anyone is allowed to raise his opinion and start discussion and that's reason why things that can mean quality lack can be disqualified and not only things from Ranking Criteria. As I stated already, most of things in RC are here, because they cannot always be realized by simple logic. We don't need another rule for things that are easy to realize.
posted
Okay wafu, you are right that it should be logic. In a map's thread (sorry CV for taking you as an example again) this was posted:

[Taiga] wrote:

The bg should at least make sense, and that is the deciding factor, NOT loctav's personal taste.
Then at least 30%+ of actualy ranked maps need to be DQ with this reason.

Things what i found in Ranking Criteria about background:

- There must not be any obscene imagery in the background/storyboard/video content. This includes nudity, near-nudity, sexual references, violence, drug abuse, etc. Keep things PG, suitable for ages 12+.

- A beatmap set may not contain multiple background video files. Multiple videos within a single beatmap set is not supported by osz2 and will result in errors during upload and processing.

- Background images must be at a maximum of 1024x768 pixels for 4:3, 1366x768 pixels for 16:9. Although 1366x768 (16:9) is recommended, most background ratios that are 4:3 or 16:9 should also work reasonably well (for example, 800x600 or 852x480). Using an image with a different ratio is fine, but will result in letterboxing (black bars at the top/bottom of the screen) or upscaling (resized image to fill the whole screen).

- Keep background imagery safe. Images should be on a level that can be displayed on all-audience TV, on public signage, and of nature that doesn't require censoring in any country. If you have any possible edge-case scenarios, please PM peppy on IRC with a link to the image in question; a list of images which are/aren't acceptable will be built up to set some visible guidelines.

- You must have a background image on every difficulty of your map. If your map has a storyboard, then you can easily fade the background out, but one is still required for the song selection menu, online thumbnail icon, and for players not downloading with video (if the map has one).

- There must not be any unnecessary transparency around storyboarded images, so crop and resize them as much as possible. If there are particular reasons for apparently useless transparency, then please explain them. For transparent sprites, there should be at least one pixel of transparent border around them so that interpolation (e.g. a black-bordered image on a black background) works properly (although a shadow or glow around the image will fix this problem as well).


Does irrevelant background breaks any rule in Ranking Criteria? If yes, please point out this rule, maybe i missed it.
If no - please explain under what kind of writen rule about what mapper was aware his map was dq. I just want to be sure, it's not another "bad mood thing" (as community member, and i think others also deserve this answer due case being pretty much weird).
Then tell me how much common sense some people have. This is why we want this guideline.
posted

Zerss wrote:

Well, HappyRocket talked about "contexts". I really understand the choice of this word since it kind of represents all of the characteristics; look at my last ranked beatmap. Well, it's an instrumental song; this sound is kind of melancholic and the background seems too; even though the song is talking about breaking, the context here is still present. (at least for me)
well yeah that's what I meant, it's subjective so you can't clearly define those cases. though, you've changed it to guideline already so this is irrelevant. just clarifying what I meant :p
posted
But sometime a song not need used like anime BG or artist BG or band BG or movie BG!
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/328639 <--- that map is nightstep version but i used that BG for original version

Example:
Lindsey Stirling - Shatter Me (feat. Lzzy Hale)
We can taken a broken crystal BG because in that video have a scene broken glass from (what is that toys)

note: why not used a random BG if we can't find a better BG?
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