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Hagumi Nishizawa - My Hero! Up to you!

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Topic Starter
Xexxar
thanks everyone
UndeadCapulet
Hello Xexxar. I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to drop a post-qualification mod on your map:

My Hero!


So from my understanding of how the My Hero diff is supposed to work, the spacing is based on the song's shifts in tone? So for example, the 00:01:448 (1,2,1) - spacing is so high because of the sudden introduction of guitar, as well as the burst into the introductory verse. That kind of thing? If that's the idea, then I think the execution could be a lot better.
  1. 00:12:520 (1,2) - This takes away a lot of the power from 00:12:877 (3,4,1) - , which doesn't match up with how you layed out 00:01:091 (3,1,1,2,1) - .
  2. 00:23:234 (1,2,3,4,5) - This jump pattern is way more intense than the 00:20:377 (1,2,3) - slider patterns right before it. I don't see any real difference in the song here.
  3. 00:28:948 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - The slow increase in spacing kills a lot of the power of 00:30:020 (3,4,1) - , since the player already expects the spacing to be that high.
  4. 00:34:127 (2,1) - The vast majority of your jump patterns use a slow spacing increase concept. This spacing could easily come across as another 1/2 jump. If that's the intended mechanic to show off how the song sort of "hovers" here, you should've done the same thing at 00:05:555 (6,1) - , it's pretty much the same effect.
  5. 00:37:698 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - This all seems really unnecessary, it's even higher spaced than 00:41:448 (1,2) - , which is pretty nonsensical. (This also applies to 00:39:305 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - to an extent)
  6. 00:45:913 (3) - Shouldn't this be NC'd to match up with all the following vocal NC spam?
  7. 00:54:127 (4,5) - Spacing should be much lower, the vocals aren't as strong here and all power is being taken out of the snap into the downbeat.
  8. 00:56:091 (1,2,3,4) - The spacing is higher than the much stronger 00:56:984 (5,6,7,1) - vocals.
  9. 01:00:020 (3,4) - I would probably lower the spacing to continue the decreasing effect. The downbeat will already feel strong enough because of the comparative distance between 4,1 and 3,4.
  10. Oh, and since you used that decreasing spacing effect, you should also do it at 00:10:913 (3,4,5,6,7,1) - , where the guitar is fading off. Pretty much the same concept imo.
  11. 01:04:127 (6,7) - Spacing is much higher than the stronger 01:04:305 (7,1) - vocal jump.
  12. There isn't enough difference between 01:05:734 (5,6) - and 01:06:091 (1,2) - for their respective musical effects, try lowering 01:06:091 (1,2) - 's spacing.
  13. Please work 01:18:218 (3) - into the following jump pattern somehow, this is basically the exact same as 00:01:091 (3,1,1,2) - musically but the effects are totally different.
  14. 01:23:575 (3,4) - This really detracts from the crazy strong 01:23:932 (1,2,3) - guitar.
  15. 01:30:896 (1,2) - Spacing being on par with 01:34:289 (1,2) - is nonsensical. Applies to pretty much every jump in the outro.
I could've talked about a lot more, but it would've started getting redundant. If I've understood the map correctly, I don't think it's ready for rank as is. There are a lot of conflicting jump concepts, and it seems like it was mishandled in the modding process, with a lot of people trying to force more "traditional" jump concepts onto it. Or maybe I've misunderstood the map, in which case feel free to correct me. This is just what the map looks like it's going for. Either way, it would be nice if there was some more discussion, it's very hard to understand your intentions for the various jump patterns.
Strategas
I find it funny when these mods happen after the map gets qualified
Topic Starter
Xexxar

UndeadCapulet wrote:

Hello Xexxar. I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to drop a post-qualification mod on your map:

My Hero!


So from my understanding of how the My Hero diff is supposed to work, the spacing is based on the song's shifts in tone? So for example, the 00:01:448 (1,2,1) - spacing is so high because of the sudden introduction of guitar, as well as the burst into the introductory verse. That kind of thing? If that's the idea, then I think the execution could be a lot better.
  1. 00:12:520 (1,2) - This takes away a lot of the power from 00:12:877 (3,4,1) - , which doesn't match up with how you layed out 00:01:091 (3,1,1,2,1) - . i dont understand why you're comparing too different sections, these instruments that you point out are pretty much of the same intensity and power so I kept similar spacing.
  2. 00:23:234 (1,2,3,4,5) - This jump pattern is way more intense than the 00:20:377 (1,2,3) - slider patterns right before it. I don't see any real difference in the song here. I dont really agree here, I went with more of a vocal focus on the first slider section, with a emphasis on the strings for the second. It's a way to vary up the rhythm instead of creating things that are exactly the same because the music is the same AKA shiro
  3. 00:28:948 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - The slow increase in spacing kills a lot of the power of 00:30:020 (3,4,1) - , since the player already expects the spacing to be that high. again, as I stated last time this was DQ'd it's the use of angles here that allows for a build up of intensity. Rather than have several back and forths there is only one at the end which forces a direct change in motion on the player to allow for said feeling of intesnity when the player crashes down from 4 into 1. likewise building into a jump like this is not inherently bad.
  4. 00:34:127 (2,1) - The vast majority of your jump patterns use a slow spacing increase concept. This spacing could easily come across as another 1/2 jump. If that's the intended mechanic to show off how the song sort of "hovers" here, you should've done the same thing at 00:05:555 (6,1) - , it's pretty much the same effect. this is easily readable at this AR, However, I can somewhat see what you are saying regarding make it a stack, however I avoided it here due to the fact that there is also a 1/1 pause afterward, which I felt deserved the hang feeling more than the first 1/1. Otherwise it would be a double 1/1 stack which is WAY more awkward than anything else.
  5. 00:37:698 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - This all seems really unnecessary, it's even higher spaced than 00:41:448 (1,2) - , which is pretty nonsensical. (This also applies to 00:39:305 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - to an extent) the rhythm here follows the bounciness of the drums and the piano. It's not more spaced than 00:41:448 (1,2) save the final jump which is appropriate given the strength on that note.
  6. 00:45:913 (3) - Shouldn't this be NC'd to match up with all the following vocal NC spam? originally it was, however I removed it as per request of a BN due to the fact that the follow notes after are different in that there is no other instruments than cymbals and vocals which is why I NC'd them.
  7. 00:54:127 (4,5) - Spacing should be much lower, the vocals aren't as strong here and all power is being taken out of the snap into the downbeat. again, I don't really agree, the rhythm is fairly consistent throughout this part in design. If anything I could see to increase the spacing on the downbeat but I dont think nerfing that jump is suitable for the section.
  8. 00:56:091 (1,2,3,4) - The spacing is higher than the much stronger 00:56:984 (5,6,7,1) - vocals. I don't really agree with that. I think the first vocals are more powerful, but my opinion doesnt matter on this map anyway
  9. 01:00:020 (3,4) - I would probably lower the spacing to continue the decreasing effect. The downbeat will already feel strong enough because of the comparative distance between 4,1 and 3,4. the synth picks up on 01:00:020 (3) - thats why the spacing increases.
  10. Oh, and since you used that decreasing spacing effect, you should also do it at 00:10:913 (3,4,5,6,7,1) - , where the guitar is fading off. Pretty much the same concept imo. it does decrease, save the final cymbal which is a jump for the sake of said cymbal being a final powerful climax for the section.
  11. 01:04:127 (6,7) - Spacing is much higher than the stronger 01:04:305 (7,1) - vocal jump. the distance on the second jump has the emphasis of the slider's reverse direction plus it technically has higher distance anyway so idk what you're talking about
  12. There isn't enough difference between 01:05:734 (5,6) - and 01:06:091 (1,2) - for their respective musical effects, try lowering 01:06:091 (1,2) - 's spacing. what is that respective musical effect? Im okay with how this is designed but okay...
  13. Please work 01:18:218 (3) - into the following jump pattern somehow, this is basically the exact same as 00:01:091 (3,1,1,2) - musically but the effects are totally different. except for the fact that 01:17:861 (2) - has a clap on said beat which is an unexpected element in the music. They are not the same pattern and do not need to be treated as such.
  14. 01:23:575 (3,4) - This really detracts from the crazy strong 01:23:932 (1,2,3) - guitar. I can see myself adjusting this to making the spacing grow here with the pitch of the guitar better, but again, rather minor.
  15. 01:30:896 (1,2) - Spacing being on par with 01:34:289 (1,2) - is nonsensical. Applies to pretty much every jump in the outro. I mean I can buff the last jump, but I really think that said pattern is fine. Its the only note that isnt a slider with a clap so I feel that it has a sense of finality without spacing.
I could've talked about a lot more, but it would've started getting redundant. If I've understood the map correctly, I don't think it's ready for rank as is. There are a lot of conflicting jump concepts, and it seems like it was mishandled in the modding process, with a lot of people trying to force more "traditional" jump concepts onto it. Or maybe I've misunderstood the map, in which case feel free to correct me. This is just what the map looks like it's going for. Either way, it would be nice if there was some more discussion, it's very hard to understand your intentions for the various jump patterns.
EDIT: nvm you're fine

Also unrelated. I've never seen any other map be attacked this vigorously for justification on EVERY single jump in a map. Sometimes a pattern is just a pattern for the sake of being a pattern, like how can I make a visually appropriate map with every sngle jump being perfectly spaced to the beat that satisfies everyone's interpretation. I really don't understand how this map can be attacked for justification in spacing when styles such as symmetry and others exist. If this is what is expected of mapping I believe that symmetry style should never be ranked again (unless actually done properly to reflect proper intensity which it almost never is)
Celentia
This has to be one of the most nitpicking cases i've seen in a while.
UndeadCapulet
I had only just happened to see it in the qualified section and thought to give my opinion on it, I didn't look at when it got qualified or anything like that, and I definitely wasn't waiting for it to get qualified so I could get it DQ'd...
I wasn't trying to attack your map, I was just trying to help it improve to be the best it could be. I obviously misunderstood what you were aiming for, so I'm sorry about that :s
Topic Starter
Xexxar

UndeadCapulet wrote:

I had only just happened to see it in the qualified section and thought to give my opinion on it, I didn't look at when it got qualified or anything like that, and I definitely wasn't waiting for it to get qualified so I could get it DQ'd...
I wasn't trying to attack your map, I was just trying to help it improve to be the best it could be. I obviously misunderstood what you were aiming for, so I'm sorry about that :s
There's no problem with genuine attempts at help and I appreciate it. It just seemed odd given that the map was JUST qualified and now you're stating that it should be DQ'd.
Silky
lol you won, gratz
Shiirn

UndeadCapulet wrote:

I had only just happened to see it in the qualified section and thought to give my opinion on it, I didn't look at when it got qualified or anything like that, and I definitely wasn't waiting for it to get qualified so I could get it DQ'd...
I wasn't trying to attack your map, I was just trying to help it improve to be the best it could be. I obviously misunderstood what you were aiming for, so I'm sorry about that :s
Unless your standards have rapidly evolved in the past month, you don't really have any right to rag on people's maps for spacing or rhythm or to try and put yourself in their shoes insofar as their mapping thought process. You were defending a map that literally had wrong snaps and was snapped to Medium gridsnap at all points.


For what it's worth, My Hero has improved a lot over time and now accurately emphasizes all points to my satisfaction, even if it's at a 1.3-1.5x scale of what i'd personally put as a "limit". But that's whatever.
Suiyu
This map is quite good now, just the hitsounding is a bit too loud x.x
Anxient
WELCOME BACK, MY HIRO!


Strategas wrote:

I find it funny when these mods happen after the map gets qualified
2016-03-05 11:34 Xexxar: i fear
2016-03-05 11:34 Anxient: then wait for their mod
2016-03-05 11:34 Anxient: and then rank it
2016-03-05 11:34 Xexxar: i literally said that
2016-03-05 11:34 Anxient: tell them if they dont mod the map within a timespan of 3 days, you would move the map forward
2016-03-05 11:36 Xexxar: http://puu.sh/nvhRh/584f66c343.jpg
2016-03-05 11:36 Xexxar: i dont know who it is
2016-03-05 11:36 Xexxar: happyrocket wouldnt tell me
2016-03-05 11:44 Anxient: well
2016-03-05 11:44 Anxient: you could go for the trap approach
2016-03-05 11:45 Xexxar: which is
2016-03-05 11:45 Anxient: rank it as it is, and then DQ it coz modders will come to your map to complain
2016-03-05 11:45 Anxient: its meta now :L
2016-03-05 11:45 Anxient: have you seen bookmark memories
2016-03-05 11:45 Xexxar: modders?
2016-03-05 11:45 Anxient: *competent modders
2016-03-05 11:45 Anxient: aka bns
2016-03-05 11:45 Xexxar: ooo
2016-03-05 11:45 Xexxar: shitting on the maps they dont like
2016-03-05 11:45 Xexxar: i like it!
Battle
you have more posts than me now im triggered
UndeadCapulet
I wasn't trying to rag on the map. I guess I should've proofread harder, I didn't mean to give off the impression that it shouldn't be ranked at all. I'm sorry if I made anyone mad with my (obviously shit) post, I was just trying to help any way I could. I knew the map was controversial for some reason, and I thought I knew why, but I was clearly wrong.
Anxient

UndeadCapulet wrote:

I wasn't trying to rag on the map. I guess I should've proofread harder, I didn't mean to give off the impression that it shouldn't be ranked at all. I'm sorry if I made anyone mad with my (obviously shit) post, I was just trying to help any way I could. I knew the map was controversial for some reason, and I thought I knew why, but I was clearly wrong.
No one is upset m8 ^^ calm down~
Loctav

Xexxar wrote:

There's no problem with genuine attempts at help and I appreciate it. It just seemed odd given that the map was JUST qualified and now you're stating that it should be DQ'd.
Are you on crack? The qualification phase is for everyone to provide more feedback before it moves to Ranked. if it just moved to Qualified, it just entered the phase of additional feedback. If you are too dense to realize that, please do not attempt to qualify more maps, as you genuiely misunderstood how this entire thing works here.

Shiirn wrote:

Unless your standards have rapidly evolved in the past month, you don't really have any right to rag on people's maps for spacing or rhythm or to try and put yourself in their shoes insofar as their mapping thought process. You were defending a map that literally had wrong snaps and was snapped to Medium gridsnap at all points.
he has the right to state his opinion on anything he wishes to. The entire section of Qualified is exactly existent for that. Same for you, if you are a dick about people using the Qualified stage for what it is supposed to exist for, please stop participating in it. Apart from that, what he did before and what he does now are totally seperate issues. Maybe he learned from mistakes? Maybe he is wrong? Who knows? That gives him all the right to state his opinion on this specific case without getting blamed with other opinions he had on other things. Grow up.

----

People like monstrata and Raiden are the reason why no one wants to participate on the Qualified feedback phase, because they get ridiculed for stating their opinion. Stop sniffing your own farts and treat everyone and their opinion with the respect that is due.

Issuing silences for extended stupidity. You guys should have known that this kind of "heheheheh lets make fun of someone who tries to participate in our private club" is what I despise the most.
Liiraye
I personally think a lot of notes are excessively far away arbitrarily

just to get some clarification









are all of these fine? Also I know that what's out of border in the editor isn't out of border ingame, but stuff like



and many notes like it that go out of border and is typically a result of overusing jumps so that you run out of space. It's probably nothing unrankable but it looks really shit and unnecessary. Just a tip for the future xexxar :)
Topic Starter
Xexxar
Loctav please read Anxient's spoiler box to understand why I was somewhat frustrated with the mod that occurs 4 hours after the map is qualified.

I obviously know that the qualified section is intended for maps to be improved by not only QATs but also the community.



Also Liiraye, what you're complaining about is simply utilize editor space to it's fullest extent. While I suppose that some overlaps on the score meter can be considered ugly, please understand that depending on resolution and the size multiplier on it, it can take a lot of space, so I'd rather just utilize the area and expect anyone who is frustrated with it to reduce the size of their score meter.
Winek
Dunno for the argument, but...

Congrats on qualification..?
Topic Starter
Xexxar

Winek wrote:

Dunno for the argument, but...

Congrats on qualification..?
danks!
Liiraye

Xexxar wrote:

Loctav please read Anxient's spoiler box to understand why I was somewhat frustrated with the mod that occurs 4 hours after the map is qualified.

I obviously know that the qualified section is intended for maps to be improved by not only QATs but also the community.



Also Liiraye, what you're complaining about is simply utilize editor space to it's fullest extent. While I suppose that some overlaps on the score meter can be considered ugly, please understand that depending on resolution and the size multiplier on it, it can take a lot of space, so I'd rather just utilize the area and expect anyone who is frustrated with it to reduce the size of their score meter.
Fair enough, that's how I see it as well. I mention this because I've been encouraged not to do this myself from bns/qats/old bats so I'm just trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. I'm also certain it was unrankable to cover the hp bar in any way, but then again I'm not very up to date with rules. Don't take my post as criticism, as I was mainly trying to get it clarified for myself.

Nonetheless, I don't think you're utilizing the area well with the forced jumps though, but that's another discussion... Just a heads up for your future maps!
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