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Hagumi Nishizawa - My Hero! Up to you!

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Topic Starter
Xexxar

those wrote:

Hey man, getting maps ranked is a privilege, not a right.
ok?

Like I said, if a QAT tells me that my top difficulty is unacceptable in that it cannot be ranked without major change / remap I will just drop the set.
those
Hey man, you being unable/unwilling to listen to anyone without a title just means you know you're not ready :^)

...especially since being QAT just means they have the ability to physically remove your map from the last part of the ranking process, not that they know better than everyone, or something like that.
Topic Starter
Xexxar

those wrote:

Hey man, you being unable/unwilling to listen to anyone without a title just means you know you're not ready :^)

...especially since being QAT just means they have the ability to physically remove your map from the last part of the ranking process, not that they know better than everyone, or something like that.
I do not wish to see this mapset ranked without the top difficulty, it is my choice. I am not interested in making this mapset boring and generic, even if that's what people want.

I simply say that I want a QAT's final word because they're the ones who will ultimately decide whether or not my mapset will be DQ'd.
iiyo

Secretpipe wrote:

*popcorn*
gracefu

Fantasy wrote:

Secretpipe wrote:

*popcorn*
You latecomers, I've been following this drama since the very first bubble

*grabs new bag of popcorn*
lit120
i can read this forum all day

*eats popcorn*
IamKwaN
Can we keep the discussion afterwards constructive? All the posts which are not productive will be removed.
Topic Starter
Xexxar
but i wanted popcorn :(

anyway i updated the beatmap with some changes from the previous mods and my own opinion
Anxient
Alright i really dont like reading all this, so lets start from the top. I would like for everyone to answer these questions. Please use simple and clear english when responding. dont use any fancy words or anything coz not all of us is good at reading comprehension. id prefer if the answers are like a sentence long, coz alot of people like to give arguments in HUGE paragraphs and most of the time you dont even understand all of it. i mean, who has time to read that? so short answers please.

lets go.

Question 1: why is the "My Hero" diff unrankable?
Question 2: how is a map's rankibility determined? by the community or by the beatmap managers?
Question 3: if a map is unrankable by the community (people not liking it coz of x reasons), would the problems be weighted to determine if a DQ was worth it?
Question 4: is the "My Hero" diff considered unrankable because Xexxar isn't well known enough as a unique mapper?
Question 5: if "My Hero" was remapped in a similar fashion by a well known jump mapper (example: Fycho, Hollow Wings, Skystar, etc (any unique mapper)), would the community complain about it? Predicted Responses: (for Fycho maps: omg another fycho map! all aboard the pp train!, for HW: omg another HW map how to even read lmao, for Skystar maps: typical skystar map, how to acc/rhythm this)
Question 6: if "My Hero" diff is originally unable to be ranked due to "jumps being too hard", then how did this map manage to get past a BN and a QAT?
Question 7: is this kind of treatment fair to new mappers who are trying something new, or would they have to build their reputation as a unique mapper from the ground up? (example: before ranking with "My Hero" diff, Xexxar must make countless normal maps, gradually increasing the hardest diff jumps of said maps before being clear that he is a jump mapper, and then proceed to rank My Hero, or is he able to rank "My Hero" immediately?)
Question 8: If the community is responsible for deeming what is rankable, how many people are need to justify a map's rankability?

i hope all these questions get answered with clear answers. no ambiguous words. just english that a 2nd language learner can understand.
forum lock incoming i can smell it.
i hope we can all get equal rights as mappers.
im going to attract loctav arent i
Topic Starter
Xexxar

Anxient wrote:

Question 8: If the community is responsible for deeming what is rankable, how many people are need to justify a map's rankability?
This same question applies to if it isn't the community deciding.

Two bn's and a QAT have gave their approval of the map. Is this not enough? How am I expected to please every single differing opinion and still have my own taste and style be present in a map?
Topic Starter
Xexxar

Shad0w1and wrote:

I would like to give some thoughts about the hero diff, I just suggest you nerf some jumps to sliders in claim parts of this song, of course this might impact your SR, but it will present the music better.
00:01:269 (1,1,2) - nerf DS a bit would be fine
00:04:573 (5,1,2,3,4,5,6) - 00:06:448 (2,3,1,2) - nerf DS
00:08:770 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - these jumps I suggest your nerf them and have some more sliders
00:10:734 (2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - these you could keep imo
00:14:663 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2) - more sliders
00:16:805 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3) - more sliders
00:29:663 (1,2,3,4,1) - nerf DS a bit
00:42:520 (5,6) - 00:43:234 (1,2) - 00:44:663 (1,2) - sliders work better
00:45:555 (1,2) - nerf a bit
00:54:305 (5,6) - 00:56:091 (1,2) - 00:57:520 (1,2) - 00:58:055 (4,5) - slider
00:59:127 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - keep
01:02:698 (4,5,6) - nerf ds
the rest seems present music well
I did not like your hero diff only because its overdone in the clam part of the song, the jumps should present the peak of the song, not the pp. and the sliders are the soul of mapping, especially for a eroge op theme
edit: its your choice to make changes or not. I would be happy to see your hero diff get ranked, by making some minor changes. mapping for pp and ignore the music is a sad fact in this community.
Wow nice comment. Really A+

You modded my map telling me to nerf spacing and change out circles for sliders. But apparently I am ignoring the song and mapping for pp.

Nice. Please remind me how well you can hear spacing in music. Oh wait you can't.
Shiirn

Anxient wrote:

Question 1: why is the "My Hero" diff unrankable?
Question 2: how is a map's rankibility determined? by the community or by the beatmap managers?
Question 3: if a map is unrankable by the community (people not liking it coz of x reasons), would the problems be weighted to determine if a DQ was worth it?
Question 4: is the "My Hero" diff considered unrankable because Xexxar isn't well known enough as a unique mapper?
Question 5: if "My Hero" was remapped in a similar fashion by a well known jump mapper (example: Fycho, Hollow Wings, Skystar, etc (any unique mapper)), would the community complain about it? Predicted Responses: (for Fycho maps: omg another fycho map! all aboard the pp train!, for HW: omg another HW map how to even read lmao, for Skystar maps: typical skystar map, how to acc/rhythm this)
Question 6: if "My Hero" diff is originally unable to be ranked due to "jumps being too hard", then how did this map manage to get past a BN and a QAT?
Question 7: is this kind of treatment fair to new mappers who are trying something new, or would they have to build their reputation as a unique mapper from the ground up? (example: before ranking with "My Hero" diff, Xexxar must make countless normal maps, gradually increasing the hardest diff jumps of said maps before being clear that he is a jump mapper, and then proceed to rank My Hero, or is he able to rank "My Hero" immediately?
Question 8: If the community is responsible for deeming what is rankable, how many people are need to justify a map's rankability?
I am not a BN or QAT. I'm just some guy. These are just my opinions and feelings towards mapping in general.

1. It isn't technically unrankable, it's just very poor form and encourages bad quality from other mappers.
2. I think you're confusing "rankability" with "quality standards". This map follows all the ranking rules, but doesn't fit the music. It's unsightly.
3. DQs are done for discussion, not as a punishment. DQs do not mean "your map is unrankable", they mean "there are problems that should be addressed and cleared up before we qualify this".
4. It's not a unique style. There is no style to this. There is little structure or patterning to the map. If there was structure and patterning (yes, possibly using that oh-so-disgusting symmetry Xexxar seems to hate), the spacing would be less of an issue because it would more clearly follow a, well, pattern. As it is right now it is purely about reading the next few approach circles and that alone makes for a map that, while entirely playable, isn't good.
5. This isn't about Xexxar. This is about his map. Quit bringing up other mappers. The only reason I mentioned hollow wings in the mod response post is that even hollow wings constantly fucks up 1/2 stacked doubles and she's known as being fairly good at gameplay theory if nothing else. It was not meant to be a comparison to insult Xexxar.
6. Again, it's not unrankable. DQs are not the same as the old deranks. DQs are fired off first to discuss the map, which is what everyone is doing.
7. The entire point of the ranking system is that newbie mappers don't know what they are doing and modding is used to help share experience. Part of the reason this map is having so much trouble is that as a newer mapper, Xexxar is refusing to listen to most kinds of commentary. It sets a horrible example, regardless of whether he is doing things right or not.
8. The system right now uses two or three BN to set up a map, and then QATs look at the map over the course of the week. Therefore, a handful of people need to at least agree that this kind of map is fine to let through the ranking process, which is clearly not happening.


This map is not being held hostage in any way. When the mapper can respond to input and suggestions without becoming incredibly defensive or aggressive, things move much more smoothly. The reason Xexxar is facing such issues is because he outright refuses to listen to advice from many more experienced mappers and modders. Myself included. He rudely brushed me off and ignored me when I explained in detail why the jumps in My Hero (this is a fairly long paragraph about relative spacing theory that I won't spit out again without being asked) were considered overkill and how to fix them in such a way that he can keep the spirit of the jumpy map.

The mapper is as much a problem, if not more so, than the map.
IamKwaN
Creator being silenced, locked.

Let anyone of the Team know if you still want to move this forward, Xexxar.

EDIT: Alright, the mapper wants to continue with this set, unlocked. Remember to keep the discussion constructive and responses courteous.
ErunamoJAZZ
I just want to point: You will wanna keep your last diff as Optional too, and go a head with your mapset.
Dont drop all mapset only for one diff.
Anxient
https://www.reddit.com/r/osugame/comments/406st3/ranking_questions_regarding_my_hero_up_yo/
relevant reddit post i made to draw more attention to the questions
(because someone fed bancho the same kind of drugs that BSS-chan was eating)

EDIT 1: for the upcoming comments, please keep foul behaviour and language to the absolute minimum. im not the one to say but its pretty obvious aint it?
Topic Starter
Xexxar

ErunamoJAZZ wrote:

I just want to point: You will wanna keep your last diff as Optional too, and go a head with your mapset.
Dont drop all mapset only for one diff.
Shiirn
The thing is, Time Freeze is objectively good. Any problems he had was just from it being a 240bpm streamfest, not because his spacing wasn't up to snuff.
Side
The way the current system works is a map is usually qualified to push it forward because it's "good enough". The ranking criteria is honestly very lenient so this is actually very easy to do (hence the hundreds of speedranked maps nowadays). The second step is (usually) a map gets disqualified either because QAT finds something unrankable or there are people in the community that have reason/concerns for the map. If the reasons make sense the map will usually be disqualified immediately so that the concerns can be addressed. This also usually leads to more people providing input on what can be improved.

Most people make the mistake that "if my map was qualified the first time it's clearly perfect (minus the thing it was DQ'd for) so I have no reason do change anything :^))))

Anxient those questions could be addressed for literally ANY map that was disqualified at some point. The same questions could be asked for your map or mine and honestly they're meaningless and provide nothing but a passive-aggressive means of gathering input on a system not the map itself. Taking to reddit further proves that point because you know the community is largely players that don't know much (if anything) about the ranking system at all and the people that do already browse qualified threads anyway.

Back to the map. I'm not at my computer nor have I actually seen the map yet but I'll definitely do so once I have time. What I CAN say is there have been many people raising the same concerns and providing arguments justifying their points. So far most counter-arguments have been similar to a "This is how I feel it should be it's my preference and I don't have reason to need to justify this". Needless to say (again) the replies have also been very passive agressive including in the youtube video.

You have to understand that while the ranking system isn't perfect it's still the system everyone uses. Whether or not it changes in the future is up to staff. The disqualifications that happen are usually because the map is good enough to be RANKABLE but it can still be improved and that's what the discussion is here for. Sure you don't have to address EVERY point but there's no reason to rush qualification just make it good make it different (please no one likes seeing the same map over a different song over and over again) and make it something you can at least be proud of ranked or otherwise.

Also remember that the mapping community is a COMMUNITY (omg redundant). This is a group that voluntarily provides content for osu. They also provide time and effort to try to help others. Every input is invaluable and whether or not you decide to change anything is still up to you but PLEASE keep in mind these people are not trying to hurt you or atack you by pointing out "suggestions" or "mistakes". Passive agressive or just straight up condescending replies (maybe not the right word pardon my englando) both offend the modders and hurt people's view on you. Who wants to help a person who doesn't care about the people trying to help them? You don't wanna hurt your reputation like bearizm. He's a good mapper but that recent event with his set surely made him look bad.


EDIT: Also trying to justify points through previously qualified maps is always a bad idea. If the map was qualified and a point was made and it was a mistake using it against QATs doesn't justify that same "mistake" applying to your map. Keep that in mind.



I might have overlooked a few points and it's not proofread so maybe somethings were not said correctly by me. It's hard to review 380 lines of text in a tiny ass phone screen x_x but yeh I'll check the map out later.
Topic Starter
Xexxar
Edit: :|
Bonsai
Something unrelated to everything here, Okoratu mentioned it in his first post but for a different reason:
01:15:913 - The bpm of this timing point is incorrect: It makes the measure start one 1/2 before the downbeat but end on the downbeat, which is messed up. It is intended to shift the offset by -16ms over the course of a whole measure, lowering it by 17,25bpm can't be right for that lol - What you want to do is make this timing point 169,7bpm.

@those questions: Please don't start the "If the mapper were famous nobody would dare to question it"-thing orz
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