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Chia - Zai Jian Cinderella

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Lily Bread
1,228 posts
Joined December 2014
Lily Bread
Lily Bread's Normal
* 00:18:842 (1,2,3,4,5) - As the easiest difficulty, it's better to avoid such a long 1/2 train. Try http://puu.sh/pFzQx/736162a8d3.jpg this instead.
/*
1. you can ask a beginner to test, i think my rhythm is easier to play. for beginner, "different gap" is much harder than all 1/2 gap.
2. this song's bpm is 136, 1/2 gap is ok.
*/

* 00:27:665 (1) - This spinner is alright. But it feels super weird to have the next measure empty entirely. So rather than a spinner, how about filling it like this: http://puu.sh/pFzXw/3b46b45487.jpg
/*
this is ok but i don't want to change. empty after spinner is quite ok in lowest diff.
*/

* 00:57:665 (1,2,3) - You have already ignored a lot of important drums to represent the vocal better. Then let's remove 01:00:092 (4) - this too. This also makes the train less long.
/*
my mapping style for easy and normal diff: in quiet part, map vocal as many as possible; if there doesn't have vocal or vocal is hard to map, map drum instead.
*/

* 01:01:194 - From here, the rhythm looks very inconsistent with what you did to represent the vocals on 00:57:665 - . You ignored 00:58:327 - this to represent 00:58:768 - this vocal, but 01:01:856 - 01:02:077 - you did it in the opposite way here. You ignored 00:59:430 - this beat to represent 00:59:209 - this vocal better, but 01:02:739 - 01:02:959 - this is just the opposite. Please make them consistent.
/*
1. if i map vocal here, they would be something like this.
http://puu.sh/pFBql/c7b2a79566.jpg
quite weird, because they are harder than kiai part. see above, so i choose to map drum here.

2. these two part is not the same in vocal. no reason to map them in same rhythm.
*/

* 01:16:636 (3) - You can also use one circle on the head to reduce the length of the train.
/*
01:16:856 - here has a vocal.
*/

* 01:20:827 (5,6,7,1,2,3) - This is too much for the easiest diff. Please, reduce the beats somehow. You can simply do this: http://puu.sh/pFAha/75cd9c7d2e.jpg
/*
so why did you ignore "consistent" this time?
see - 01:14:430 (6) -
*/

* 01:29:430 (1,2,3,4,5) - Same as 00:18:842 (1,2,3,4,5) -
/*
same
*/

* Why not add a spinner at the end like other diffs?
/*
why should i add a spinner? i hate spinner. boring and it can't express any music at all.
*/

no change.
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Doyak
Ok I understand your thoughts about some things, but let me explain some more.

Lily Bread wrote:

my mapping style for easy and normal diff: in quiet part, map vocal as many as possible; if there doesn't have vocal or vocal is hard to map, map drum instead.
That's not bad. But the problem here is that all these are in one train of a pattern. It's like the pattern doesn't have anything specific to follow. More like collecting various large sounds and mixing them into the pattern.

Lily Bread wrote:

quite weird, because they are harder than kiai part. see above, so i choose to map drum here.
If you can't bear missing some less important vocals, then it can't be helped. But do you really need to always represent all of them when you can easily nerf it while still following the vocal?

Lily Bread wrote:

2. these two part is not the same in vocal. no reason to map them in same rhythm.
I don't agree. Not having the same rhythm doesn't mean they're on different parts. They're musically in the same part, and the drum pattern just tells you that. I think it's not a good idea to change what you follow between them.

Lily Bread wrote:

01:16:856 - here has a vocal.
Yeah I know, and now I see you won't let any of the vocals not mapped. I'm just telling you a way to nerf the pattern. I see you don't agree though.

Lily Bread wrote:

so why did you ignore "consistent" this time?
see - 01:14:430 (6) -
Then shall I suggest to remove 01:22:150 (7) - this one instead? Then you'll say it has a vocal. I know that very well, and that's why I'm telling you to remove some beats before that, even it does hurt some consistency, because avoiding long 1/2 trains is more important.

Lily Bread wrote:

why should i add a spinner? i hate spinner. boring and it can't express any music at all.
If you hate spinners for these reasons, then why did you put one on 00:27:665 (1) - ? Actually I think a spinner works for both parts, but 00:27:665 (1) - makes you not able to map 00:30:312 - here, so I thought it's better to be removed, while 01:38:253 - this doesn't hurt any other parts.
More important reason is for the mapset consistency, because this diff is a part of the mapset, not an individual map.
DreaM117er
1,594 posts
Joined September 2012
DreaM117er
placeholder, I will help this map
Lily Bread
1,228 posts
Joined December 2014
Lily Bread
Mapping for music, not for you. Mapping my map, not your map.
I can't fit everyone's aesthetic standard. You wrote those nonsensical things to express what? Everyone should map a song in one way? Please don't use your BN identity to force one to change their map.
Pretty sure that my Normal is good enough to rank.
will reply together after 117's mod.
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Doyak
I'm revealing my own opinion. What's wrong with that? If you don't agree with me, then just tell me your reason behind it. Did I ever force you to change something? Did I even tell you to change something aesthetic? I told you my reasons, then why is it nonsensical?

I was just concerned about this easiest difficulty of the mapset having too long 1/2 trains. Oh other Normal diffs do these too, right? But in this case, this difficulty is used as the 'easiest difficulty'. The reason we have that 'easiest difficulty < 2.0 stars' rule is because we need to make new players to be able to play at least one difficulty. If a Normal diff is the easiest difficulty, it should be beginner-friendly as well.

I know I might be too picky and others will probably disagree with me. But you shouldn't just say "this is my style, don't violate it" thing even without replying to my concerns. Why do you even feel I'm forcing you to do these changes? Just reply to my concerns properly then it's a good discussion.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
Well, if you do not agree, just throw your reasons to let everybody know. I am not sure if Doyak's suggestions are useful or not but discussion is never a bad thing, right?

Let's calm down a bit :P
Momizi
275 posts
Joined June 2013
Topic Starter
Momizi

Doyak wrote:

Sonnyc forced me to take a look at this xD

[Lunatic]
* 01:13:327 (4) - 01:20:386 (1) - Inconsistent NC use. fixed
* 00:34:724 - 00:35:386 - these piano sounds, are represented with whistles on 00:48:842 - 00:49:503 - fixed
* 00:30:312 (3,4,5,6) - 00:32:297 (4,5,6) - Why are these represented differently? One is a train, and the other one is triangle jump. I want.why i use it i said in sonnyc's mod, i will not say it again
* 00:29:430 (1,2,3) - This is the only one you didn't make 00:30:092 - this vocal clickable unlike 00:31:856 - 00:33:621 - 00:37:150 - 00:40:680 - 00:44:209 - 00:45:974 - 00:47:739 - 00:51:268 - 00:53:033 - 00:54:797 - i want use slider here,i dont want it have to many singletap,and for better connect with 00:30:312 (3,4,5,6) - 。 no change,
* 01:04:724 (1,2,3) - This have a big jump pattern to emphasize the sounds, but why not on 01:06:489 (1,2,3) - ? fixed，chaged pattern
* 01:16:194 - There's no sound here, so might be better to make 01:15:974 (3,4) - into a 1/1 slider. its slider，not clickable，i think here is ok，and i want 01:16:415 (4) - clickable.no change
* 01:23:474 (1,2,3) - Seems way too large compared to the rest of your map. Around 2.50 would work better. fixed,use 2.7

[Hard]
* 00:01:195 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - Why not use same NC term as Lunatic? want 2 note 1 part,no chage
* 00:18:621 (1) - 00:22:150 (6) - 00:25:680 (5) - Inconsistent NC fixed
* 00:48:621 (6) - Need NC fixed
* 00:59:430 - If you're going to neglect this downbeat, it's better to neglect 00:58:106 - this beat and extend 00:57:665 (1) - to 00:58:327 (2) - to represent the long vocal instead. fixed on 00:59:430 (1) -
* 01:23:033 (3,4,5) - inconsistent spacing on a linear pattern isn't good, as it breaks the flow by suddenly accelerating/breaking the cursor speed without direction change. chaged triangle's ds to 1.6
DreaM117er
1,594 posts
Joined September 2012
DreaM117er
Generally, I checked Doyak's mod first, then knew what happened here...

[Normal]
  1. I said "you don't put spinner on the end of the song" is fine, but this time I think I can't help you much.
    00:19:503 (2) - from Doyak's mod and reply, I agree him. You can use a circle on 00:19:503 - and a 1/2 slider on 00:19:944 - to fix rhythm here. Same part on 01:15:974 (2) -
    00:57:665 (1,2,3) - This part rhythm is fine imo, but you can try to map this drum 00:59:430 - , it would be nice to follow whole vocal.
    01:22:150 (7) - It's very different rhythm with 00:11:342 (3,1) - . You can remove the circle here to make rhythm not to be harder.
    01:23:915 - I'd like to see spinner here. If have or not have spinner here, this problem should be fixed and decided by Momizi
[Hard]
  1. This diff doesn't have big problem on rhythm, but you should fix Doyak's mod first.
    00:20:386 (1,2) - why don't you use 1/1 or 1/2 slider to fit guitar??
    00:28:989 (3,1) - It have no sense to use large jump on the song going slower. Reduce distance here (DS). Same 00:53:915 (4,1) -
    00:37:812 (5,1) - same as this part^
    00:42:444 (2,3) - fix DS
    01:10:459 (2,2) - I hope you set NC on these 2 circles to be more readable.
  2. That's all.
[Lunatic]

  • 00:07:371 (4,5) - This is what I say "you should fix Doyak's mod first". I hope you should make sure difference of 2/1 and 1/1 rhythm. If you agree, please fix whole diff.
    00:27:003 (4,5) - Just a question: This pattern isn't too hard for the diff?? 00:27:224 (5,6) - I think you should reduce some distance on this jump. 01:37:592 (6,7,1) - same.
    00:27:444 (6) - NC
    01:10:900 (1,2,3,4) - I'd like to see you make a real star path here.
    01:13:327 (4,1) - swap NC

Go~
Last edited by DreaM117er , edited 4 times in total.
Momizi
275 posts
Joined June 2013
Topic Starter
Momizi
by the way，i think lily's normal is well enough for me.she is the mapper who made this map，and she has the power to make decision.as far as I am concerned,she dont need change.I support her.Amd mod is a subjective thing，you fell good，he fell not good，is always happened.Dislike sometimes not need reason.
Binguo
308 posts
Joined April 2015
Binguo

Pata-Mon wrote:

_MiaoFUuU_ wrote:

恭喜1st!!
你这个……
可以的很强
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Doyak
It's her decision whether she'll fix it or not. It can be preference. But I'm raising my concerns. I'm asking her if she's really okay with these concerns, not whether she likes it or not. If she's fine with these things, then go ahead, but she's just saying "it's my style", "why do you force me to change", "my mapping, not your mapping" things and never revealed her opinions about my concerns. I'm always happy to listen to the mapper's thoughts.
Momizi
275 posts
Joined June 2013
Topic Starter
Momizi

DreaM117er wrote:

Generally, I checked Doyak's mod first, then knew what happened here...

[Hard]
  1. This diff doesn't have big problem on rhythm, but you should fix Doyak's mod first.
    00:20:386 (1,2) - why don't you use 1/1 or 1/2 slider to fit guitar?? chaged to slider
    00:28:989 (3,1) - It have no sense to use large jump on the song going slower. Reduce distance here (DS). Same 00:53:915 (4,1) -
    00:37:812 (5,1) - same as this part^ these 1 have accent,i think its ok
    00:42:444 (2,3) - fix DS fixed
    01:10:459 (2,2) - I hope you set NC on these 2 circles to be more readable. here can be read(its stacked),and i want01:10:900 (1,2,3,4,1) - be a part so nc in01:10:900 (1) -
  2. That's all.
[Lunatic]

  • 00:07:371 (4,5) - This is what I say "you should fix Doyak's mod first". I hope you should make sure difference of 2/1 and 1/1 rhythm. If you agree, please fix whole diff. if i want change here to manke people notice 1/1,00:07:812 (5) - nc will be the best way? But i dont like use nc very often，its dont look good.i think people can play hard could easy to watch the thythm difference.or by listening.so,no chage herer
    00:27:003 (4,5) - Just a question: This pattern isn't too hard for the diff?? 00:27:224 (5,6) - I think you should reduce some distance on this jump. 01:37:592 (6,7,1) - same. these are fine,not very difficult,its Lunatic,not hard.Because song is a little slow,so it can has in icon.(in fact,its a in dif)
    00:27:444 (6) - NC fixed
    01:10:900 (1,2,3,4) - I'd like to see you make a real star path here. fine.fixed
    01:13:327 (4,1) - swap NC fixed on last mod

Go~
Last edited by Momizi , edited 1 time in total.
Momizi
275 posts
Joined June 2013
Topic Starter
Momizi

Doyak wrote:

It's her decision whether she'll fix it or not. It can be preference. But I'm raising my concerns. I'm asking her if she's really okay with these concerns, not whether she likes it or not. If she's fine with these things, then go ahead, but she's just saying "it's my style", "why do you force me to change", "my mapping, not your mapping" things and never revealed her opinions about my concerns. I'm always happy to listen to the mapper's thoughts.
maybe she is a little intemperate，but i also fell very angry when mod comes when this map is in qua.the question sonnyc said is not unrankable question(Big questiion).its some advice to improve map's quality(Small question).For this,i think BN should more foucus on Pending maps before they qua.when a map qua,is two or more BNs think its good enough.And if the map shouldnt be ranked,QAT will DQ it,its not BN's thing,BN's thing is to help mappers before their map qualified.
I mean BN should focus on maps in pending not in qua.The time you see a map in qua,you can see many other maps need BN's help.For example,https://osu.ppy.sh/s/226670,its my map.And its very difficult to find BN to mod it.not only me,others are also have the question.and i put this map is want to say，if it ranked，some people like you and sonnyc will mod it and make it dq and then to change some thing.Why not mod map before it qualified?
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Doyak
That makes sense, it's another story but let's talk about it.

The reason why qualified section exists is to make the whole community check the map out before it gets fully ranked. This isn't working well, and only small amount of people, mostly BNs like Sonnyc, are doing it. So now a DQ is generally perceived as a 'bad' thing, because those 'few' people are 'blocking the way to a full rank', while the intention of DQ is not like that.

DQ is not only for 'unrankable' issues, it's for general improvement of the quality. This is just not happening on most of the qualified maps. While I agree there are many pending maps that need BNs' help, this disqualifying process should happen more to ensure that the quality of the ranked mapsets is good as possible. There's still a long way for this DQ system to go.

On another note, I said I came here upon Sonnyc's request to help with this mapset, and it was already back to pending, so I modded a 'pending' map, didn't I? I know it's not super happy to have my maps disqualified, but still improving your map is a good thing.
Last edited by Doyak , edited 1 time in total.
Sonnyc
7,753 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
Because that is what qualified section is meant to be I guess. Indeed making an input to such mapsets "before" when it gets qualified will be the best and what I prefer. That's why I sometimes provide mods that is close to getting qualified. However, we can't know which mapset is close to qualified in most cases, and with that in mind, getting a map qualified is the second best way to get your map getting noticed. Getting a map disqualified isn't a thing that happens only when a map contains unrankable issue or some big flaws, but also when it gets a feedback from the community regarding the mapping quality. It's not like I made an opinion here as a BN, but rather as a community member. I know getting maps disqualified is never an enjoyable experience, but I hope you can take this as an opportunity with an open mind for further improvement in this mapset and also for your future mapping. (I hope that's why you requested a dq :3)
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

Momizi wrote:

Doyak wrote:

It's her decision whether she'll fix it or not. It can be preference. But I'm raising my concerns. I'm asking her if she's really okay with these concerns, not whether she likes it or not. If she's fine with these things, then go ahead, but she's just saying "it's my style", "why do you force me to change", "my mapping, not your mapping" things and never revealed her opinions about my concerns. I'm always happy to listen to the mapper's thoughts.
maybe she has a little intemperate，but i also fell very angry when mod comes when this map is in qua.the question sonnyc said is not unrankable question(Big questiion).its some advice to improve map's quality(Small question).For this,i think BN should more foucus on Pending maps before they qua.when a map qua,is two or more BNs think its good enough.And if the map shouldnt be ranked,QAT will DQ it,its not BN's thing,BN's thing is to help mappers before their map qualified.
I mean BN should focus on maps in pending not in qua.The time you see a map in qua,you can see many other maps need BN's help.For example,https://osu.ppy.sh/s/226670,its my map.And its very difficult to find BN to mod it.not only me,others are also have the question.and i put this map is want to say，if it ranked，some people like you and sonnyc will mod it and make it dq and then to change some thing.Why not mod map before it qualified?
Sorry but you got this all wrong. This is not how any of this works. Qualified section is exactly for this purpose: to receive feedback. QATs do not work on themselves anymore and you should be aware of this, otherwise it pretty much means you're completely outdated on how the system works. t/447417

And uh, looking at qualified maps is much more efficient due to the fact that once they're ranked, they cannot receive any improvement any longer, while a map on pending can always be improved (modded). BNs are free to mod whatever they deem fit to mod, and if a qualified map has room for improvement and one of them raises a concern, that concern must be discussed and addressed properly (not only BNs but regular users as well). Honestly, "this is my style" is the worst excuse you can give for a raised concern, and is more likely to cause your map to be disqualified, so in the end it's rather counter-productive.

Good luck on the re-qualification process.
Momizi
275 posts
Joined June 2013
Topic Starter
Momizi
OK,All is my wrong,stop disscusing it,it shoudlt be disscussed in pending map's forum(here should be a place to mod map).Wish you guys can help everyone as a volunteer.Good luck.
i dont want waste time to keep discuussing it any more,anyway，i will failed，because im wrong.And after you guys said.I think i will mod qua map more to help osu to get more good map.
Last edited by Momizi , edited 1 time in total.
Koiyuki
2,531 posts
Joined March 2013
Koiyuki
take it easy
keep in mind that qualified just means "bubbled #2 and goes to ranked in one week without issues"
Momizi
275 posts
Joined June 2013
Topic Starter
Momizi

Minakami Yuki wrote:

take it easy
keep in mind that qualified just means "bubbled #2 and goes to ranked in one week without issues"
yes，what you said is right,mapping shoud be a happy thing(wish i can keep this opinion)
Lily Bread
1,228 posts
Joined December 2014
Lily Bread

Lily Bread wrote:

will reply together after 117's mod.
/*
I've never said that i will ingore your mod.

some fact:
1. my diff should be a light Normal because it's the lowest diff in mapset.
2. this song's BPM is only 136.
*/

That's not bad. But the problem here is that all these are in one train of a pattern. It's like the pattern doesn't have anything specific to follow. More like collecting various large sounds and mixing them into the pattern.
/*
...yeah, collecting large sounds and mixing them into the pattern, what's wrong? every Normal diff mapper is doing this.
*/

If you can't bear missing some less important vocals, then it can't be helped. But do you really need to always represent all of them when you can easily nerf it while still following the vocal?
/*
see - 01:02:518 (3) - and - 01:02:739 - . 3 is clap in drum while another one is downbeat in vocal.
and, - 01:02:959 (4) - this is a downbeat in drum.
their gap are all in 1/2, so I can't map all of them in a light Normal diff.
so, i choose to ignore all vocal near them, and then map drums instead.
*/

I don't agree. Not having the same rhythm doesn't mean they're on different parts. They're musically in the same part, and the drum pattern just tells you that. I think it's not a good idea to change what you follow between them.
/*
if i make them in same pattern, then how to express their difference in music?
http://puu.sh/pGqvY/a2e9ed6c90.jpg
the rhythm above is ok if i take them out of the map, but they will be totally the same as - 01:01:194 (1,2,3) - .
*/

Yeah I know, and now I see you won't let any of the vocals not mapped. I'm just telling you a way to nerf the pattern. I see you don't agree though.
/*
hmm.
*/

Then shall I suggest to remove 01:22:150 (7) - this one instead? Then you'll say it has a vocal. I know that very well, and that's why I'm telling you to remove some beats before that, even it does hurt some consistency, because avoiding long 1/2 trains is more important.
/*
01:20:827 (5,6,7,1,2,3) - see these 1/2 trains, they are at the most sharp part in this music: end of kiai. so, as a normal, to make them hardest in this diff is best.
refer to fact 1 and 2, I can't use 1/2 trains everywhere, but only 1 place in a kiai part's end, it's ok.
just as we can put a jump in hard diff's kiai part's end.
*/

If you hate spinners for these reasons, then why did you put one on 00:27:665 (1) - ? Actually I think a spinner works for both parts, but 00:27:665 (1) - makes you not able to map 00:30:312 - here, so I thought it's better to be removed, while 01:38:253 - this doesn't hurt any other parts.
/*
this is the only thing that i can agree with you.
*/


Normal
◾I said "you don't put spinner on the end of the song" is fine, but this time I think I can't help you much.
/*
see above
*/

00:19:503 (2) - from Doyak's mod and reply, I agree him. You can use a circle on 00:19:503 - and a 1/2 slider on 00:19:944 - to fix rhythm here. Same part on 01:15:974 (2) -
/*
repeat, i don't think your rhythm is easier than my rhythm. spaced a lot and start at red tick is harder than current rhythm.
*/

00:57:665 (1,2,3) - This part rhythm is fine imo, but you can try to map this drum 00:59:430 - , I would be nice to follow whole vocal.
/*
http://puu.sh/pGrjx/662fb4eed9.jpg
I mapped as you said at beginning, but every said "this is too hard" (and that does too hard when i referred to fact 1) , so i changed into current rhythm.
*/

01:22:150 (7) - It's very different rhythm with 00:11:342 (3,1) - . You can remove the circle here to make rhythm not to be harder.
/*
as what i said above.
01:20:827 (5,6,7,1,2,3) - see these 1/2 trains, they are at the most sharp part in this music: end of kiai. so, as a normal, to make them hardest in this diff is best.
refer to fact 1 and 2, I can't use 1/2 trains everywhere, but only 1 place in a kiai part's end, it's ok.
just as we can put a jump in hard diff's kiai part's end.
*/

01:23:915 - I'd like to see spinner here. If have or not have spinner here, this problem should be fixed and decided by Momizi
/*
okay, it seems that let momizi to decide is the best way.
*/
Momizi
275 posts
Joined June 2013
Topic Starter
Momizi
@lily 01:23:915 - has too short time to use a spinner，i will not add.And discussed is it need spinner at last before，i think no change is ok，its no question in normal.
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Doyak
Yup, now it seems you got my point and explained why you disagree with me. Please, express your opinion properly when someone mods your map from now on. They're just trying to help you improve your map, not to offend you.

Also good luck on re-rank!
Misure
951 posts
Joined September 2012
Misure
不虚
Hanazawa Kana
727 posts
Joined February 2013
Hanazawa Kana
不要放弃啊 站起来继续撸
_MiaoFUuU_
314 posts
Joined April 2014
_MiaoFUuU_
虽然没有详细看bn说的话，但我觉得bn的摸能改尽量全改。加油
smallboat
1,687 posts
Joined January 2010
smallboat
Still nothing to say to this, looks fine. Reb it.
Karen
2,860 posts
Joined August 2013
Karen
傻给
SagiriBM
70 posts
Joined March 2015
SagiriBM
00:20:386 missing note on hard diff or this is intentional ? it was weird on first play but its probably just me ^_^
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