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posted
I agree fully.
A proposal of a wording for a Guideline would be nice, and some more opinions, then this can be bubbled.
posted
To be honest, that rule actually confused me, so I just ignore it lol. Some people just need to keep calm and just play the map XD
Definitely agree to this change o3o
posted
Alright, guideline sounds like it would work, so I'll update the first post accordingly in a bit.
To avoid a repeat of last time I'm going to send out a PM to others involved in the previous thread so they know that this one exists.
So let's get feedback from them first before moving anything forward.

EDIT: Sent a PM to the 14 in the previous thread.
posted
I personally agree the original purpose of the rule; use hitsounds as their original intention.

If this principle can still be assured as the form of a guideline, while allowing nice exceptions, then that might be better than a rule.
posted
I agree with this
I have seen some cases where it's used, mostly on approval maps, on the end (often it's a 64beat (or something like that) slow slider)
I also find it fitting on maps like Dadadadadadadadadada, As the clap sounds shifts from 1/1 to 1/2 and so on, so you don't need to change BPM or slidertickrate, which is inpossible

Oh Charles, I completely forgot about this, I saw your PM and though: Huh, what's this?
posted
Hitsounds should be used as they were meant. I do see your point, though, and pretty much agree Nerova's map is executed properly (actual loops). Your example was fine too, as the hitsounds were done in a way it keeps an steady rhythm, I think it'd depend of the song to judge it as intrusive or not. (Mind to link fanzhen's map? I've been away from standard for ages :(). What isn't okay is people putting snares and other related hitsounds just because.

I rather change the wording, than moving it straight to guidelines.

Do not use sliderslide, sliderwhistle, and spinnerspin hitsounds in a way that would replicate a hitsound on a circle, slider start, slider end, slider tick, or slider repeat. Sliderslide, sliderwhistle, and spinnerspin hitsounds are considered continuous hitsounds, meaning that their files play from start to end and loop as one continuous sound for the length of the held object. Do not alter any section of a held object to play a single hitsound.
I don't know if this modification would allow hitsounding like in Charles' example though.

Baraatje123 wrote:

I also find it fitting on maps like Dadadadadadadadadada, As the clap sounds shifts from 1/1 to 1/2 and so on, so you don't need to change BPM or slidertickrate, which is inpossible
This problem is more related to limitations present in the editor. Rather support the Feature Request for this.
posted
I really dislike this being a rule, but I'd be totally fine with a guideline.

As with many things in mapping, there are cases in which this is useful and in which it is not.
If the mapper is experienced enough to use these kinds of hitsounds to actually enhance or improve the map/feel, then I dont see why this should be forbidden. Ofcourse, if these are used in a way that doesnt make any sense, then we could refer to the guideline and work on that issue.
posted
You can only attribute this to the limitations of the editor. p/4718862 (as well as the previous thread) explains everything that still isn't understood.

My suggestion is to go into Feature Requests to suggest storyboarding conditional audio cues with stricter conditions (if slider is being pressed between time "a" and time "b" -> play "audiofile.wav" at time "x", etc.).

The rule only had to exist because common sense was so rare (and apparently still is). There is no point for this to be a guideline, because there will not be a case where an alternative is not better/more correct. Everything that has been "done right" can be explained by either a) it didn't break the rule in the first place, or b) someone was slacking during the modding process and/or does not understand the purpose of this rule.
posted
i remember in the old version of skystar's colorful asterisk remix, he hitsounded the entire piano part on a single 'M' slider. but since it was hitsounded via sliderslides, it was technically unrankable and he had to redo that part with normal patterns :(

guideline seems better maybe. as long as people don't abuse.
posted
Dropping some good examples for the usage of sliderslide hitsounds for reference (yeah I could think of more since my latest post)

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/437671
himmel feat. YooSanHyakurei - Seraphim, by fanzhen0019
03:26:577 (1) - pretty neat effect

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/389348
TRakker - Rootus, by Amamiya Yuko
02:26:663 (3) -
02:28:685 (6) - etc
a higher slider tick rate would make the sv changes unfair (in this case lower str makes more sense here)

I'm now clearly in the position that it should be a Guideline, to allow for cases like these.
posted
most of the people i've asked can't understand what does that rule mean actually, includes some BNs and even QATs
this won't help when you're going to judge hitsounding on a map to make sure it's rankable or not.
rules should be able to understand by mappers to follow, not to make people confused, which means a hard-to-understand rule is not good and should be changed or even deleted.

those wrote:

You can only attribute this to the limitations of the editor. p/4718862 (as well as the previous thread) explains everything that still isn't understood.

My suggestion is to go into Feature Requests to suggest storyboarding conditional audio cues with stricter conditions (if slider is being pressed between time "a" and time "b" -> play "audiofile.wav" at time "x", etc.).
but the truth is, you can't attribute all of those things to the editor and add a feature on storyboarding to fix the problem, since the map and the storyboard are two different kinds of things and they are not related to each other.
actually this change on editor will make the whole mapping process much more complicate than before, it makes you spend more time on thinking about their uses, not everyone has strong logic like that to deal with that complicate work.
maybe you think that's ok because this kind of situation is really rare, but there's another important reason, it needs more calculation on gameplay, like timing, press, duration on hit objects, obviously you'll have high chances on getting glitches/bugs. considering about the input lag and the game's response time, the difference on gameplay is much bigger than you thought (especially when you're a player with bad accuracy), it won't better than just change sliderslide samples.

just some personal opinions though.
posted
fwiw what peppy finds silly is the use of non-loopable hitsounds for sliderslides (ie replacing a sliderslide with for instance a hitnormal)
which is exactly what this rule is trying to prevent from happening, because it is stupid as all hell
it doesn't prevent ticksounds in any way, you can still use your horrible hitsounding and wrong rhythms as you please (yes, ticksounds are an abomination)
this thread is silly
and the rule is fine
posted

Shiro wrote:

fwiw what peppy finds silly is the use of non-loopable hitsounds for sliderslides (ie replacing a sliderslide with for instance a hitnormal)
which is exactly what this rule is trying to prevent from happening, because it is stupid as all hell
it doesn't prevent ticksounds in any way, you can still use your horrible hitsounding and wrong rhythms as you please (yes, ticksounds are an abomination)
this thread is silly
and the rule is fine
Have you even seen the examples in my latest post? There are good uses of this, otherwise I agree and this guideline would still only allowed to be broken for a few rare examples.
posted
Skystar's isn't really a good example of proper hitsounding. I do get the intention was to keep consistency in hitsounding, but the slidersound just gets in the way of what he tried to do with the rhythm changes. It also doesn't provide anything to the hitsounding, as it blends considerably with the song.

fanzhen's falls into borderline, as Charles' example (just without the looping thing). It still blends a bit.

Either you're using the wrong rhythm for your hitsounding ideas or not using the appropriate hitsound.
posted
Agreeing on this.
posted
I don't know if it was already said but, it could be better if you write something to discourage mappers from using this "technique", like it was said for slidertick hitsounds. If only this rule moves to Guidelines.

I don't really get how a mapper could use it, really, for most of cases it doesn't make sense and it is not needed.
This is a rhythm game, if sliderticks could not be hitsounded (Assume the beat is not on any white or red tick) that means the BPM is wrong or the song is a little random ? I don't have any example, i never saw it before.
Or maybe, the mapper wants to add other hitsounds...... which are not beats.... uuuh.
posted

Cherry Blossom wrote:

I don't really get how a mapper could use it, really, for most of cases it doesn't make sense and it is not needed.
This is a rhythm game, if sliderticks could not be hitsounded (Assume the beat is not on any white or red tick) that means the BPM is wrong or the song is a little random ? I don't have any example, i never saw it before.
Or maybe, the mapper wants to add other hitsounds...... which are not beats.... uuuh.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/357996
05:06:291 (1) - Does this not make sense?
posted

Cherry Blossom wrote:

I don't really get how a mapper could use it, really, for most of cases it doesn't make sense and it is not needed.
This is a rhythm game, if sliderticks could not be hitsounded (Assume the beat is not on any white or red tick) that means the BPM is wrong or the song is a little random ? I don't have any example, i never saw it before.
Or maybe, the mapper wants to add other hitsounds...... which are not beats.... uuuh.
Sliderslide hitsounding would be great for 1/3 stuff.In the lower-to-medium difficulties of songs like https://osu.ppy.sh/b/628159, where sliderticks can't cover everything.

Full support of getting this rule taken out.
posted

Maakkeli wrote:

Cherry Blossom wrote:

I don't really get how a mapper could use it, really, for most of cases it doesn't make sense and it is not needed.
This is a rhythm game, if sliderticks could not be hitsounded (Assume the beat is not on any white or red tick) that means the BPM is wrong or the song is a little random ? I don't have any example, i never saw it before.
Or maybe, the mapper wants to add other hitsounds...... which are not beats.... uuuh.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/357996
05:06:291 (1) - Does this not make sense?
The slidertick is hitsounded, not the sliderslide ? so at least it makes sense...

UndeadCapulet wrote:

Cherry Blossom wrote:

I don't really get how a mapper could use it, really, for most of cases it doesn't make sense and it is not needed.
This is a rhythm game, if sliderticks could not be hitsounded (Assume the beat is not on any white or red tick) that means the BPM is wrong or the song is a little random ? I don't have any example, i never saw it before.
Or maybe, the mapper wants to add other hitsounds...... which are not beats.... uuuh.
Sliderslide hitsounding would be great for 1/3 stuff.In the lower-to-medium difficulties of songs like https://osu.ppy.sh/b/628159, where sliderticks can't cover everything.
Most important beats are not on 1/3 on this map, so I guess hitsounds on sliderticks are fine, don't you think ?
Too many mappers want to use 41534151 hitsounds on their map because"holy firetruck yes i know how to use 1251312 hitsounds on my maps to show that i'm pro and creative.", when the whole song is ruined by too many extra "artificial" things, i didn't say using a lot of hitsound is bad, it's just using them sparingly.
The easiest diffs just follow the most important beats. It will be a very bad idea to try to hitsound what you can hear on 1/3 or 1/4 ticks on easiest diffs.
posted
I was mostly talking about parts like 03:04:583 (5) - on the advanced diff, where the loud drum beats get skipped over. But anyway, I was really just bringing up that a lot of songs mix 1/3 drums in to songs that are mostly 1/2, so you can't use sliderticks; I just picked the first song I thought of as an example.
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