nyquill can you fix mods on laevateinn
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Camellia feat. Nanahira - Tsukitourou
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Total Posts
93
Topic Starter
Thanks Delis :3
General
- Meta
? - why every extra is OD 9? atleast nyquill's one should be 8,5
- 01:11:071 (2,1,2,3,4) - this flow feels kinda uncomfortable when playing, mainly the movement from the triplet to the next object, since the circles aren't lenient as sliders
- 01:16:725 (3,4,1) - I failed to understand the spacing here, since 4 is a weak beat in the music, but in the map is has a big spacing, would be nice if you reduce it somehow.
- 01:47:039 (7) - same
- 03:49:709 (2) - add nc? if u do, then do on insane and similar parts too
- 02:44:579 (5) - this one sounds super out place, it's starting on an almost inaudible beat, I strongly suggest u to use a different rhythm here.
- 03:35:259 (9) - it's the break delayed on purpose?
- 00:04:788 (1,2,1,2) - vs 00:09:814 (1,2,3,4) - make your combos consistent.
- 00:13:898 (1,1) - the stack leniency made those objects really close to each other.
- 00:47:510 (5,6) - same sound in the music one is a jump and the other one has really short spacing, it doesn't make much sense. 00:57:563 (5,6) - same
- 01:53:479 (1,2) -03:13:898 (1,2) - 04:19:238 (1,2) - eh I don't think is a good idea to add a sudden full screen jump,specially with this CS and considering that the hardest jumps are smaller than this, I'd suggest to nerf it.
- 02:19:552 (1,2,3,1) - the stack leniency destroy your blanket xd
- 02:43:113 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - why u stack the 3 first beats and the u start moving on such weak beat as 4?, I mean you start the movement in a beat with no relevance in the song.
- 03:24:107 (2,3,4) - the stack leniency ruins your stack.
- 03:37:772 - it's the break dragged on purpose?
- 03:59:133 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - the music stays the same, why the stream jumps? I really don't agree with this tbh
- 01:40:914 (6) - missing NC
- 03:20:181 (5) - If you are going to do this antijump then atleast add NC at 03:20:181 (5) -
- 03:31:490 (6) - NC? Maybe add one here too 03:49:709 (2) -
- 01:55:835 (1,2,3) - 03:16:411 (4,5,6) - the stack leniency ruins your spacing
- 01:06:987 (1,2,3) - 01:09:500 (1,2,3) - 01:17:039 (1,2,3) - 01:49:709 (1,2,3) - 02:37:458 (1,2,3) - 02:48:296 (4,5,1) - 03:00:076 (1,2,3) - 03:02:589 (1,2,3) - rip spacing because of the stack leniency.
- 01:38:401 (3) - esta terminando en una nota muy importante, hace un deslizador 1/1 y un circulo es mucho mejor para el ritmo. supongo que en los otros kiai pasa lo mismo.
Topic Starter
waiting on other ppl i guess and i will update at once. Thanks for moddingNatsu wrote:
GeneralCountless
- Meta
- why every extra is OD 9? atleast nyquill's one should be 8,5
Advanced
- 01:11:071 (2,1,2,3,4) - this flow feels kinda uncomfortable when playing, mainly the movement from the triplet to the next object, since the circles aren't lenient as sliders
- 01:16:725 (3,4,1) - I failed to understand the spacing here, since 4 is a weak beat in the music, but in the map is has a big spacing, would be nice if you reduce it somehow. this was intentionally done to have a more counter-intuitive emphasis (notice how the stronger pianos land on distanced snapped notes), but for better contrast i moved 3 further from 2 to highlight that sound better
- 01:47:039 (7) - same this was intentionally supressed to highlight the jump on the NC, but i noticed a little weird flow here so i did a ctrl+g on 01:46:568 (4,5)
- 03:49:709 (2) - add nc? if u do, then do on insane and similar parts too this colour was supposed to represent "slow" and "calm" for me, NC here would disrupt that
- 02:44:579 (5) - this one sounds super out place, it's starting on an almost inaudible beat, I strongly suggest u to use a different rhythm here. holy this took me like 20 min to fix, had to compromise to a simpler rhythm :/
- 03:35:259 (9) - it's the break delayed on purpose? was gonna delay it furthur but the warning arrows came up too quickly, so i ditched the whole thing
- 01:06:987 (1,2,3) - 01:09:500 (1,2,3) - 01:17:039 (1,2,3) - 01:49:709 (1,2,3) - 02:37:458 (1,2,3) - 02:48:296 (4,5,1) - 03:00:076 (1,2,3) - 03:02:589 (1,2,3) - rip spacing because of the stack leniency. These are only minor cosmetic issues that don't actually affect game play, removing stack leniency will cause trouble for hidden readability so I prefer to have it as is. I did lower circle size slightly so the overlaps with sliders are less intrusive. Raose also agrees with this reasoning for Hard.
Edit: Did Nyquill's changes for him, the last NC is not applied similar to the reasoning I have in my diffs
oh I don't mean to reduce the stack leniency, but to set the spacing manually at those places xd
Topic Starter
alright i did all the ones that ruins a blanket, but i think the other ones like 01:50:181 (2,3) are a bit far fetched since it doesn't actually impact gameplay or appearance
fixed the others ::dNatsu wrote:
General
yf's Expert
- 03:24:107 (2,3,4) - the stack leniency ruins your stack. hard to fix
http://puu.sh/wJrQN/5de0de0430.zip
The issue mentioned here is about make 01:39:029 - and similar, clickeable.Natsu wrote:
EruJazz's Normal
- 01:38:401 (3) - esta terminando en una nota muy importante, hace un deslizador 1/1 y un circulo es mucho mejor para el ritmo. supongo que en los otros kiai pasa lo mismo.
I applied this in the first two kiais. In last kiai not because drums.
Code
osu file format v14
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Countdown: 0
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TitleUnicode:月燈籠
Artist:Camellia feat. Nanahira
ArtistUnicode:かめりあ feat. ななひら
Creator:jonathanlfj
Version:EruJazz's Normal
Source:
Tags:ErunamoJAZZ Raose Nyquill yf_bmp moon lantern かめるかめりあ×Confetto りぷれい！Replay!
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416,348,185730,1,2,0:2:0:0:
328,368,186044,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,312,186359,2,0,L|256:268,2,45,2|0|8,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
184,368,186987,2,0,P|136:364|88:336,1,89.9999999999999,2|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
56,268,187615,6,0,P|19:304|13:364,2,89.9999999999999,2|8|2,0:2|0:0|0:2,0:0:0:0:
124,208,188557,1,8,0:0:0:0:
212,228,188872,2,0,P|292:212|348:112,1,180,2|2,0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
340,44,189814,1,12,0:0:0:0:
252,36,190128,6,0,B|220:39|195:55|179:83|179:83|163:110|139:126|107:130,1,180,6|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
40,192,191071,1,8,0:0:0:0:
107,253,191385,2,0,B|139:257|163:273|179:300|179:300|195:328|220:344|252:348,1,180,6|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
340,340,192327,1,8,0:0:0:0:
428,322,192642,54,0,P|464:302|508:242,2,89.9999999999999,6|0|8,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
368,254,193584,1,8,0:0:0:0:
311,184,193898,2,0,L|282:149,2,45,2|2|2,0:2|0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
144,248,194840,37,8,3:0:0:0:
204,316,195154,2,0,L|156:384,2,45,6|2|2,0:2|0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
388,60,197668,6,0,L|388:15,2,45,6|2|2,0:2|0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
380,328,198924,2,0,B|344:348|344:348|300:332|300:332|288:292|288:292|248:264|248:264|212:308|160:316,1,270,12|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
84,316,200181,70,0,L|68:384,2,45,6|2|2,0:2|0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
20,56,201437,2,0,P|144:16|256:88,1,270,8|12,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
284,172,202694,6,0,L|258:233,2,45,6|8|8,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
366,204,203322,2,0,L|397:266,2,45,6|8|8,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
420,132,203950,2,0,P|464:120|500:72,1,89.9999999999999,6|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
492,44,204421,2,0,P|436:12|352:32,1,135,2|12,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
311,88,205207,70,0,P|307:128|275:180,1,89.9999999999999,2|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
220,108,205835,2,0,P|196:140|142:169,1,89.9999999999999,0|8,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
80,116,206464,2,0,P|40:192|80:272,1,180,2|0,0:2|3:0,0:0:0:0:
160,304,207406,1,8,0:0:0:0:
248,316,207720,6,0,P|270:314|292:309,2,45,2|2|8,0:2|0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
216,232,208348,2,0,P|226:188|242:146,1,89.9999999999999,0|8,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
264,60,208977,2,0,B|310:75|325:121|325:121|340:167|386:182,1,180,2|2,0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
476,192,209919,1,12,0:0:0:0:
484,280,210233,70,0,P|499:296|509:318,2,45,2|2|8,0:2|0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
424,344,210861,2,0,P|386:366|341:364,1,89.9999999999999,2|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
292,288,211490,2,0,P|214:244|127:258,1,180,2|2,0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
48,296,212432,1,12,0:0:0:0:
56,208,212746,6,0,L|65:163,1,45,6|0,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
4,96,213218,2,0,L|12:52,1,45,2|0,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
96,16,213689,1,2,0:2:0:0:
180,48,214003,2,0,B|230:50|266:27|266:27|299:58|347:64,1,180,0|0,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
247,213,215259,1,4,0:0:0:0:
356,64,220285,70,0,P|384:104|376:160,1,89.9999999999999,4|0,3:2|2:0,0:0:0:0:
296,128,220914,2,0,P|296:172|323:207,1,89.9999999999999,8|0,0:0|2:0,0:0:0:0:
312,296,221542,2,0,P|356:295|391:268,2,89.9999999999999,4|0|8,3:2|2:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
236,248,222484,1,0,2:0:0:0:
160,296,222798,5,6,0:2:0:0:
68,140,223427,2,0,P|92:100|140:72,1,89.9999999999999,2|0,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
212,52,224055,1,8,0:0:0:0:
264,224,224683,2,0,P|306:211|340:181,1,89.9999999999999,2|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
393,106,225311,69,2,0:2:0:0:
256,192,225469,12,2,227825,2:0:0:0:
393,106,229709,21,0,2:0:0:0:
340,32,230024,1,0,2:0:0:0:
268,84,230338,6,0,B|232:112|232:112|176:116,1,89.9999999999999,6|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
124,52,230966,1,2,0:2:0:0:
34,52,231280,1,8,0:0:0:0:
34,141,231594,2,0,B|34:185|34:185|6:233,1,89.9999999999999,2|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
76,288,232223,2,0,L|48:336,2,45,2|0|8,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
160,256,232851,5,2,0:2:0:0:
228,316,233165,1,8,0:0:0:0:
312,284,233479,2,0,L|424:240,1,89.9999999999999,2|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
392,160,234107,2,0,P|348:152|304:100,1,89.9999999999999,2|12,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
340,36,234736,2,0,L|408:36,2,45,2|0|12,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
252,36,235364,6,0,P|212:64|184:112,1,89.9999999999999,6|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
208,184,235992,1,2,0:2:0:0:
288,224,236306,1,8,0:0:0:0:
296,312,236620,2,0,P|256:336|204:340,1,89.9999999999999,2|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
128,320,237249,2,0,P|90:292|66:246,1,89.9999999999999,2|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
72,164,237877,54,0,B|64:120|64:120|20:80,2,89.9999999999999,2|8|2,0:2|0:0|0:2,0:0:0:0:
148,212,238819,1,8,0:0:0:0:
212,148,239134,2,0,P|280:92|372:112,1,180,2|2,0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
432,168,240076,1,12,0:0:0:0:
432,256,240390,6,0,P|416:288|360:324,1,89.9999999999999,6|12,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
284,336,241018,2,0,L|272:400,2,45,2|0|12,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
204,292,241647,2,0,P|184:262|181:195,1,89.9999999999999,2|12,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
236,144,242275,2,0,P|232:99|209:61,1,89.9999999999999,2|12,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
132,20,242903,5,2,0:2:0:0:
60,76,243217,1,12,0:0:0:0:
88,160,243531,2,0,P|104:204|88:256,1,89.9999999999999,2|12,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
112,332,244160,2,0,L|64:380,2,45,2|0|12,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
200,336,244788,2,0,L|200:400,2,45,2|0|12,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
272,280,245416,54,0,P|280:236|264:180,1,89.9999999999999,6|12,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
204,132,246044,1,2,0:2:0:0:
256,60,246358,1,12,0:0:0:0:
344,44,246673,2,0,L|384:16,2,45,2|0|12,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
396,120,247301,2,0,P|440:124|496:160,1,89.9999999999999,2|12,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
420,212,247929,6,0,P|456:237|486:296,2,89.9999999999999,8|8|2,0:0|0:3|0:2,0:0:0:0:
339,252,248871,1,12,0:0:0:0:
249,267,249186,2,0,B|245:219|205:191|205:191|245:111,1,180,2|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
292,32,250128,1,8,0:0:0:0:
204,28,250442,6,0,B|116:32|116:32|128:88|88:132,1,180,6|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
44,192,251385,1,8,0:0:0:0:
98,264,251699,2,0,B|128:296|116:352|116:352|204:356,1,180,6|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
292,352,252641,1,8,0:0:0:0:
368,304,252956,54,0,P|408:328|476:324,2,89.9999999999999,6|8|8,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
388,216,253898,1,8,0:0:0:0:
420,132,254212,2,0,L|448:64,2,45,2|0|12,3:2|3:0|3:1,0:0:0:0:
352,76,254840,2,0,L|340:32,2,45,8|0|12,3:1|3:0|3:1,0:0:0:0:
268,104,255469,6,0,B|232:124|224:180|224:180|120:164,1,180,6|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
68,108,256412,1,8,0:0:0:0:
36,192,256726,2,0,B|4:276|4:276|68:268|92:312,1,180,6|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
154,365,257668,1,8,0:0:0:0:
246,361,257983,6,0,P|290:349|342:305,2,89.9999999999999,6|0|0,3:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
202,285,258925,1,0,3:0:0:0:
158,205,259239,2,0,L|135:166,2,45,6|0|0,0:2|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
380,48,260495,6,0,P|407:85|413:128,1,89.9999999999999,6|10,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
388,216,261124,1,2,0:0:0:0:
364,304,261437,2,0,P|385:308|422:295,2,45,8|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
276,284,262066,1,10,0:0:0:0:
208,224,262380,2,0,P|167:242|142:279,1,89.9999999999999,2|10,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
52,292,263008,6,0,P|32:225|53:163,2,135,2|2|2,0:2|0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
112,360,264264,1,0,0:0:0:0:
200,336,264579,1,10,0:0:0:0:
288,356,264893,2,0,L|331:370,2,45,2|0|12,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
288,264,265522,70,0,P|300:224|328:185,1,89.9999999999999,6|8,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
408,144,266149,1,0,0:0:0:0:
488,108,266463,2,0,L|512:64,2,45,8|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
416,56,267092,1,10,0:0:0:0:
332,92,267406,2,0,L|288:84,2,45,2|2|10,0:0|0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
328,184,268035,6,0,P|324:228|292:272,1,89.9999999999999,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
216,296,268663,2,0,B|189:300|159:289|132:269|132:269|140:212,1,135,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
196,156,269448,2,0,L|204:112,1,45,2|2,0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
144,48,269919,2,0,L|152:4,2,45,2|2|2,0:2|0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
56,60,270548,70,0,P|24:96|12:140,1,89.9999999999999,6|10,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
40,220,271175,2,0,P|76:252|120:264,1,89.9999999999999,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
160,264,271647,2,0,P|184:296|200:360,2,89.9999999999999,2|2|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
204,184,272589,2,0,L|280:196,1,45,0|10,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
304,260,273061,6,0,P|332:225|340:181,1,89.9999999999999,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
364,96,273688,2,0,P|404:120|428:180,1,89.9999999999999,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
436,200,274160,2,0,P|460:237|498:259,2,89.9999999999999,10|0|2,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
348,228,275102,2,0,L|360:296,1,45,0|10,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
300,344,275573,70,0,P|256:356|212:344,1,89.9999999999999,6|10,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
212,256,276202,2,0,P|167:267|135:300,1,89.9999999999999,0|10,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
60,344,276830,2,0,P|48:300|60:256,1,89.9999999999999,0|10,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
88,172,277459,2,0,L|64:112,2,45,0|0|10,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
171,208,278086,6,0,P|233:150|328:141,1,180,6|12,3:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
457,175,279186,2,0,P|400:260|250:259,1,225,10|12,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
171,208,280442,2,0,P|125:116|201:-13,1,225,10|12,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
260,107,281699,1,6,0:2:0:0:
256,192,281856,12,4,285429,2:0:0:0:
256,192,285626,12,4,289186,3:0:0:0:
Im sorry for late, I am a bit busy with rl stuffs ^^U
Topic Starter
we good now 
looks fine
Topic Starter
Thanks Natsu!
Tsukitourou when meme officially dead 2015-2017 RIP
Tsukitourou when meme officially dead 2015-2017 RIP
finally! gratz lfj~
Meg wrote:
finally! gratz lfj~
:O
Gratz XD
Gratz XD
congrats
gratz! after two years
Congrulations! :3
oh wow finally, grats
late
gratz~ finally
gratz~ finally
:thinking:[A L P H A] wrote:
THIS ISNT CAMELLIA
WHERE ARE MY WUBS
So this one night, i've put on my favorite playlist before going to sleep. This song was on when i fell asleep. And I had a thought, "ahh how awesome it would be to put on huge ass jumps on these short vocals bursts!". With these thoughts I fell asleep xd. The next day i woke up, i see this qualified. Also I apologize if I word something poorly, first time typing this much stuff on a mod post.
[Countless]
Mmh, I'm not implying that it should be that big, but here, I'll go and explain, but firstly let me point out this two things that I understood as a structural issue:
01:31:490 (1,2,3) - Now, I didn't notice the music changing at all, and this is not a collab, therefore, I don't think the structure and spacing of this should be different than 01:41:542 (1,2,3,4,1) - Another thing would be the contrast problematic. IF you scaled the difficulty of the section, so should the vocals jumps be scaled to be dominantly bigger than the kicks. 01:34:003 (1,2,3) - same goes for this. And the second kiai section has first two patterns of these vocal bursts as a problem imo, since they are weaker than the vocals on first part, but as strong as them (in the map) in the second part of the second kiai.
02:15:154 (2,3,4) - Here, the two stack is stacked completely and has a different range from the previous slider. But in following two instances, on the same sounds, the stack is more balanced, to have the circle right in the middle of two sliders: 02:16:411 (5,6,7) - 02:17:668 (3,4,5) - this is probably just very slight, and not a groundbreaking issue.
And so, this were my thoughts, the kiai sections are rather monotonous, there's nothing special happening in them, nothing that would turn my attention from filler kicks and stuff. However, in the song, the vocals more then enough draw my attention, and that means they should be in contrast against the other patterning. I'm mostly referring to these 01:40:914 (1,2,3,4) - 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4) - . Like, if not increased spacing, you can make them different by giving them much sharper angles, zigzag, backandforths etc, and probably just a little bit increased spacing to make them stand out perfectly. 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4,1) - after hitting this short burst of vocals, I don't feel anything different hitting 01:44:055 (1,2,3,4) - as they're about the same, sharp angle jumps.
01:44:683 (1,2,3,4,5) - this pattern completely disregards rhythmically the vocals. Since nanahira is like doing some really fast singing, forcing herself to break her words on every 1/2 , you've just put 1/2 sliders as if she isn't saying anything on the red ticks. 01:44:683 (1,2) - so these two should be imo circles, 01:45:312 (3,4) - and this transformed into a slider, since here she's just prolonging her words which she started on the white ticks.
01:45:626 (5) - this also has a kick on a red tick, but you still went for a slider, meaning it is acceptable in the map to end sliders on kicks.
One more argument against the kiai sections, is that I don't feel that different playing that section which I was commenting mostly on, then playing the next section without vocals, since it also contains jumps at about same spacing, and also nothing strongly emphasized. 01:54:736 - talking about this section.
[Short comments on other difficulties]
yf's extra does emphasize the vocals totally, by only putting circles on vocals parts, and I was really happy with that. But I still think this difficulty should emphasize them by spacing or patterning, if not by rhythm.
01:41:228 (2) - gave a quick look at nyquill's extra, he also makes them stand out in a way, however I have a problem with these, previous 2 patterns had both sliders that following these vocal bursts of the same shape. And this is not only different shape, but this is kinda placed poorly in the bottom right corner, not looking good and ruining the structure. 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4,5) - also it feels weird that he just now used these vocals at circles in this section, as the previous 3 patterns were not circles, so making the fourth is kinda fairly inconsistent. p.s. 02:19:866 (1) - is this a bit too much out of the grid?
in the insane difficulty you actually gave them emphasis compared to the rest of the section, just these two issues 02:53:793 (1,2) - 02:51:280 (1,2) - , their spacing is too low, in the first and third kiai, its a lot bigger, and they should be big imo to emphasize the vocals yes. 03:54:107 (1,2) - also this. 04:01:961 (3,6) - and this, completely out of nowhere, 3/4 sliders get introduced
And yeah, i agree with other parts, and have no complaints on them, its just this kiai sections that bothered me, that's about it.
[Countless]
Mmh, I'm not implying that it should be that big, but here, I'll go and explain, but firstly let me point out this two things that I understood as a structural issue:
01:31:490 (1,2,3) - Now, I didn't notice the music changing at all, and this is not a collab, therefore, I don't think the structure and spacing of this should be different than 01:41:542 (1,2,3,4,1) - Another thing would be the contrast problematic. IF you scaled the difficulty of the section, so should the vocals jumps be scaled to be dominantly bigger than the kicks. 01:34:003 (1,2,3) - same goes for this. And the second kiai section has first two patterns of these vocal bursts as a problem imo, since they are weaker than the vocals on first part, but as strong as them (in the map) in the second part of the second kiai.
02:15:154 (2,3,4) - Here, the two stack is stacked completely and has a different range from the previous slider. But in following two instances, on the same sounds, the stack is more balanced, to have the circle right in the middle of two sliders: 02:16:411 (5,6,7) - 02:17:668 (3,4,5) - this is probably just very slight, and not a groundbreaking issue.
And so, this were my thoughts, the kiai sections are rather monotonous, there's nothing special happening in them, nothing that would turn my attention from filler kicks and stuff. However, in the song, the vocals more then enough draw my attention, and that means they should be in contrast against the other patterning. I'm mostly referring to these 01:40:914 (1,2,3,4) - 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4) - . Like, if not increased spacing, you can make them different by giving them much sharper angles, zigzag, backandforths etc, and probably just a little bit increased spacing to make them stand out perfectly. 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4,1) - after hitting this short burst of vocals, I don't feel anything different hitting 01:44:055 (1,2,3,4) - as they're about the same, sharp angle jumps.
01:44:683 (1,2,3,4,5) - this pattern completely disregards rhythmically the vocals. Since nanahira is like doing some really fast singing, forcing herself to break her words on every 1/2 , you've just put 1/2 sliders as if she isn't saying anything on the red ticks. 01:44:683 (1,2) - so these two should be imo circles, 01:45:312 (3,4) - and this transformed into a slider, since here she's just prolonging her words which she started on the white ticks.
01:45:626 (5) - this also has a kick on a red tick, but you still went for a slider, meaning it is acceptable in the map to end sliders on kicks.
One more argument against the kiai sections, is that I don't feel that different playing that section which I was commenting mostly on, then playing the next section without vocals, since it also contains jumps at about same spacing, and also nothing strongly emphasized. 01:54:736 - talking about this section.
[Short comments on other difficulties]
yf's extra does emphasize the vocals totally, by only putting circles on vocals parts, and I was really happy with that. But I still think this difficulty should emphasize them by spacing or patterning, if not by rhythm.
01:41:228 (2) - gave a quick look at nyquill's extra, he also makes them stand out in a way, however I have a problem with these, previous 2 patterns had both sliders that following these vocal bursts of the same shape. And this is not only different shape, but this is kinda placed poorly in the bottom right corner, not looking good and ruining the structure. 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4,5) - also it feels weird that he just now used these vocals at circles in this section, as the previous 3 patterns were not circles, so making the fourth is kinda fairly inconsistent. p.s. 02:19:866 (1) - is this a bit too much out of the grid?
in the insane difficulty you actually gave them emphasis compared to the rest of the section, just these two issues 02:53:793 (1,2) - 02:51:280 (1,2) - , their spacing is too low, in the first and third kiai, its a lot bigger, and they should be big imo to emphasize the vocals yes. 03:54:107 (1,2) - also this. 04:01:961 (3,6) - and this, completely out of nowhere, 3/4 sliders get introduced
And yeah, i agree with other parts, and have no complaints on them, its just this kiai sections that bothered me, that's about it.
Topic Starter
Before replying to you, it is important for you to know that I like to switch up vocal and instrumental emphasis; I also tend to do different sections differently in a way to provide a variety of playing experience. You might argue that it introduces inconsistencies, but I think its a good way to "spice up" the difficulty a bit without making it too unpredictable. That said, let me explain the logic behind what you pointed out:
Now I actually expected you to comment on the fail spike that is the last sections of each kiai, but surprisingly you referenced completely different sections of the map that I felt were...lets say fine. Since you took your time to explain your points I also went in depth about mine, so hopefully we can reach an agreement here (or agree to disagree).MaridiuS wrote:
So this one night, i've put on my favorite playlist before going to sleep. This song was on when i fell asleep. And I had a thought, "ahh how awesome it would be to put on huge ass jumps on these short vocals bursts!". With these thoughts I fell asleep xd. The next day i woke up, i see this qualified. Also I apologize if I word something poorly, first time typing this much stuff on amodpost.
[Countless]
Mmh, I'm not implying that it should be that big, but here, I'll go and explain, but firstly let me point out this two things that I understood as a structural issue:
01:31:490 (1,2,3) - Now, I didn't notice the music changing at all, and this is not a collab, therefore, I don't think the structure and spacing of this should be different than 01:41:542 (1,2,3,4,1) - Another thing would be the contrast problematic. IF you scaled the difficulty of the section, so should the vocals jumps be scaled to be dominantly bigger than the kicks. 01:34:003 (1,2,3) - same goes for this. And the second kiai section has first two patterns of these vocal bursts as a problem imo, since they are weaker than the vocals on first part, but as strong as them (in the map) in the second part of the second kiai. This is a prime example of using different spacing for the same intensity of music to introduce variety. Note that 01:31:490 (1,2,3) and 01:34:003 (1,2,3) share the same spacing, whereas 01:41:542 (1,2,3,4) and 01:44:055 (1,2,3,4) also share similar spacing; this is because the vocal stanzas repeat itself, but I decided to map them differently to create variety in the same section. You can see similar technique used in the 2nd kiai
02:15:154 (2,3,4) - Here, the two stack is stacked completely and has a different range from the previous slider. But in following two instances, on the same sounds, the stack is more balanced, to have the circle right in the middle of two sliders: 02:16:411 (5,6,7) - 02:17:668 (3,4,5) - this is probably just very slight, and not a groundbreaking issue. the reason why this is stacked is because the following slider is 1/2. Note that I didn't stack the ones after this pattern because they all lead to 1/4 sliders, and in my years of playing experience I find that 1/4 stacks on a 1/4 slider are often the most difficult to play. So this is essentially a playability compromise as I would have preferred to stack all of them anyways.
And so, this were my thoughts, the kiai sections are rather monotonous, there's nothing special happening in them, nothing that would turn my attention from filler kicks and stuff. However, in the song, the vocals more then enough draw my attention, and that means they should be in contrast against the other patterning. I'm mostly referring to these 01:40:914 (1,2,3,4) - 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4) - . Like, if not increased spacing, you can make them different by giving them much sharper angles, zigzag, backandforths etc, and probably just a little bit increased spacing to make them stand out perfectly. 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4,1) - after hitting this short burst of vocals, I don't feel anything different hitting 01:44:055 (1,2,3,4) - as they're about the same, sharp angle jumps. As I previously said, these are designed the way they are to provide variety while not sacrificing consistency. You may argue this is "boring", but some of my other test players have said otherwise. Lets just call this a preference thing.
01:44:683 (1,2,3,4,5) - this pattern completely disregards rhythmically the vocals. Since nanahira is like doing some really fast singing, forcing herself to break her words on every 1/2 , you've just put 1/2 sliders as if she isn't saying anything on the red ticks. 01:44:683 (1,2) - so these two should be imo circles, 01:45:312 (3,4) - and this transformed into a slider, since here she's just prolonging her words which she started on the white ticks.
01:45:626 (5) - this also has a kick on a red tick, but you still went for a slider, meaning it is acceptable in the map to end sliders on kicks. Changing this to circles would create a fail spike here due to consecutive circle jumps. Also this section is consistently mapped in the first and second kiai, but notice how in the last kiai they do become circles (in fact, the last kiai is mapped completely different from the first two since its supposed to be the most "hype" and hardest of them all). This again goes back to my idea of being consistent but also providing variety.
One more argument against the kiai sections, is that I don't feel that different playing that section which I was commenting mostly on, then playing the next section without vocals, since it also contains jumps at about same spacing, and also nothing strongly emphasized. 01:54:736 - talking about this section. I'd have to say this is a preference thing, as I feel the complete opposite from how you felt here :/
[Short comments on other difficulties]
yf's extra does emphasize the vocals totally, by only putting circles on vocals parts, and I was really happy with that. But I still think this difficulty should emphasize them by spacing or patterning, if not by rhythm. Well this was supposed to be a technically challenging difficulty, so I will leave it at that (stylistic choice)
01:41:228 (2) - gave a quick look at nyquill's extra, he also makes them stand out in a way, however I have a problem with these, previous 2 patterns had both sliders that following these vocal bursts of the same shape. And this is not only different shape, but this is kinda placed poorly in the bottom right corner, not looking good and ruining the structure. 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4,5) - also it feels weird that he just now used these vocals at circles in this section, as the previous 3 patterns were not circles, so making the fourth is kinda fairly inconsistent. p.s. 02:19:866 (1) - is this a bit too much out of the grid? Nyquill and myself fall into the same class of mappers; in fact, I learned most of my mapping ideas from his older maps. He is afk right now traveling, but I can assure you that he used a similar logic as mine when mapping these sections (for example, slider shapes are literally "random" because there is no need to follow the same shape for the same sections). It's an older styled map and is that way for good reason.
in the insane difficulty you actually gave them emphasis compared to the rest of the section, just these two issues 02:53:793 (1,2) - 02:51:280 (1,2) - , their spacing is too low, in the first and third kiai, its a lot bigger, and they should be big imo to emphasize the vocals yes. 03:54:107 (1,2) - also this. 04:01:961 (3,6) - and this, completely out of nowhere, 3/4 sliders get introduced The lower spacing portion is more highlighting the aesthetics; otherwise the two pairs of sliders would look detached and break the structure of the map. The 3/4s are there because the last kiai is mapped differently (see explaination on Countless)
And yeah, i agree with other parts, and have no complaints on them, its just this kiai sections that bothered me, that's about it.
I kinda am okayish with other statements, or what you'd like to say, agree to disagree, but I don't think we understood each other here, even though this was my main concern of the map. Btw, what does fail spike even mean?
jonathanlfj wrote:
And so, this were my thoughts, the kiai sections are rather monotonous, there's nothing special happening in them, nothing that would turn my attention from filler kicks and stuff. However, in the song, the vocals more then enough draw my attention, and that means they should be in contrast against the other patterning. I'm mostly referring to these 01:40:914 (1,2,3,4) - 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4) - . Like, if not increased spacing, you can make them different by giving them much sharper angles, zigzag, backandforths etc, and probably just a little bit increased spacing to make them stand out perfectly. 01:43:427 (1,2,3,4,1) - after hitting this short burst of vocals, I don't feel anything different hitting 01:44:055 (1,2,3,4) - as they're about the same, sharp angle jumps. As I previously said, these are designed the way they are to provide variety while not sacrificing consistency. You may argue this is "boring", but some of my other test players have said otherwise. Lets just call this a preference thing. ~I don't think that you understood me on this point or something, I kinda insist on adding variety here. If there's a change in music so should be in the map. The vocals add intensity and difference compared to repeating kicks and snares everywhere, but in the certain parts I linked, they blend in with the kicks, and don't feel special or different at all, meaning no variety since they're basically the same spacing, and flow type. By adjusting all these kind of patterns it will be varied, but consistent.
Topic Starter
I think I might have to elaborate a bit more. You are not wrong; if you look at those patterns independently, they do seem kinda "bland" and not necessarily representing the music as closely as you might want. However, if you take into consideration all 3 of the kiais and how I mapped each one, you might see the intentions behind this:
First kiai:
01:31:490 (1,2,3) - distance snapped circles followed by a slider, essentially an anti jump after the previous jump
01:41:542 (1,2,3,4) - same intensity as previous combo; essentially the "bland" aspect you are referring to
Second kiai:
02:51:908 (1,2,3,4) - all circles, but with much smaller spacing than previous combo (another form of anti-jump)
03:01:961 (1,2,3,4) - "bland" mapping as you would say
Last kiai:
03:52:223 (1,2,3) - same intensity jumps, but with a slider at the end to tone it down
03:54:736 (6,7,8) - introduction of 1/4s in the section; notice here there is no NC on this
04:01:961 (3,4,5,6) - this part the vocal is skipped so 3/4 slider was used for extended vocals; no NC was used
04:04:788 (5,6,7) - stacked circle + slider, also no NC used
Now in my mapping philosophy, I generally divide kiai in two groups; the normal chorus (normal kiai) and the last chorus (hype kiai). Notice the rhythmic similarity between the first two kiai; aside from second kiai using more circles and 1/4 sliders to represent fast vocals, their rhythm is nearly identical (as well as the choice of mapping "bland"). This is the consistency aspect I was referring to. Now at the last kiai, everything is mapped completely different; the emphasis is on point, and the same rhythm sections are mapped 4 different ways. This is the variety aspect I was referring to.
I think by now you will have noticed why I chose to blandly map the first two sections; its to make the last kiai really stand out as the core of the map. If I followed your suggestion and put all the emphasis "correctly" to the vocals, you would get 3 kiais with the same rhythm but different jump patterns; to me that would be the definition of a bland and boring map.
To answer your other question, by fail spike I mean having consecutive circle jumps of more than 8-10 notes, which will drain the stamina of the player and cause misses/fails (I have really bad stamina so clicking consecutively while jumping is very hard for me). You see this pretty much only nearing the end of the map, where the hype factor overrides everything else.
Hopefully that addressed some of your concerns; it pretty much boils down to our mapping preferences being a bit different on the vocal aspect.
First kiai:
01:31:490 (1,2,3) - distance snapped circles followed by a slider, essentially an anti jump after the previous jump
01:41:542 (1,2,3,4) - same intensity as previous combo; essentially the "bland" aspect you are referring to
Second kiai:
02:51:908 (1,2,3,4) - all circles, but with much smaller spacing than previous combo (another form of anti-jump)
03:01:961 (1,2,3,4) - "bland" mapping as you would say
Last kiai:
03:52:223 (1,2,3) - same intensity jumps, but with a slider at the end to tone it down
03:54:736 (6,7,8) - introduction of 1/4s in the section; notice here there is no NC on this
04:01:961 (3,4,5,6) - this part the vocal is skipped so 3/4 slider was used for extended vocals; no NC was used
04:04:788 (5,6,7) - stacked circle + slider, also no NC used
Now in my mapping philosophy, I generally divide kiai in two groups; the normal chorus (normal kiai) and the last chorus (hype kiai). Notice the rhythmic similarity between the first two kiai; aside from second kiai using more circles and 1/4 sliders to represent fast vocals, their rhythm is nearly identical (as well as the choice of mapping "bland"). This is the consistency aspect I was referring to. Now at the last kiai, everything is mapped completely different; the emphasis is on point, and the same rhythm sections are mapped 4 different ways. This is the variety aspect I was referring to.
I think by now you will have noticed why I chose to blandly map the first two sections; its to make the last kiai really stand out as the core of the map. If I followed your suggestion and put all the emphasis "correctly" to the vocals, you would get 3 kiais with the same rhythm but different jump patterns; to me that would be the definition of a bland and boring map.
To answer your other question, by fail spike I mean having consecutive circle jumps of more than 8-10 notes, which will drain the stamina of the player and cause misses/fails (I have really bad stamina so clicking consecutively while jumping is very hard for me). You see this pretty much only nearing the end of the map, where the hype factor overrides everything else.
Hopefully that addressed some of your concerns; it pretty much boils down to our mapping preferences being a bit different on the vocal aspect.
I think by now you will have noticed why I chose to blandly map the first two sections; its to make the last kiai really stand out as the core of the map. If I followed your suggestion and put all the emphasis "correctly" to the vocals, you would get 3 kiais with the same rhythm but different jump patterns; to me that would be the definition of a bland and boring map.Daaaamn, you're a genius, thanks, everything is clarified.
congratz