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P*Light - Gekkou Ranbu [OsuMania]

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Akasha-
Basic tips:

Highlighted


this is 1/2


this is 1/3


this is 1/4


this is 1/8

Fantasy wrote:

You cannot dual scratch naturally on osumania, thus adding scratch jacks or 1/8th scratch notes is exploitation, you could easily make the scratches 1/4 or not add any at all but.. YOU HAD to add 1/8th scratch jacks, thus exploiting the system.

1/8th scratch jacks is not necessary in this chart.
so now, tell me where is 1/8 scratch jack?

-Kamikaze- wrote:

Yeah, I see why it's unpopular/not liked here (99% of players being KB only), but I personally treat scratch jack maps as gimmick maps, same categorization as SV hells, noodles and all that - I find them to be a valuable addition to the ranked pool of maps mainly for the variety sake.
And as mentioned about 50000 times, the only thing that's really holding it back is the lack of support for alternate key input.
I want this kind of maps ranked in general 1) because we severly lack 8k charts and 2) because it's a cool gimmick imo
If you disagree with it, it's fine, I just don't like how most people fight scratch jacks like fire because of that stupid limitation.
Argee! I support this.
Topic Starter
Spy
:? Still busy on army now.
DoNotMess

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

Basic tips:

Highlighted


this is 1/2


this is 1/3


this is 1/4


this is 1/8

Fantasy wrote:

You cannot dual scratch naturally on osumania, thus adding scratch jacks or 1/8th scratch notes is exploitation, you could easily make the scratches 1/4 or not add any at all but.. YOU HAD to add 1/8th scratch jacks, thus exploiting the system.

1/8th scratch jacks is not necessary in this chart.
so now, tell me where is 1/8 scratch jack?

http://puu.sh/qMOHg/9f9fafdfa4.png maybe what he meant by "1/8th scratch jacks" is 1/2 beat afterall...
Taiwan-NAK
每次點圖都這麼熱鬧
我就靜靜看那些87繼續不懂裝懂 6
KyoukoeFX
nice map :D
Blocko
Hi again!

Judging from the mod responses since the last disqualification, some of the points that have been brought up by the community have been resolved by the mapper, but there's still one difficulty that has a glaring issue and has been left as it is where the mapper doesn't really provide a proper response to it.

I'll just drop a few suggestions on the 8K difficulties since those difficulties still have some problems that need to be resolved, but I'll start with the whole mapset about its hitsound usage.

General


Storyboard samples shouldn't be used unless there's a break in the map. Hitsounds exist to provide audible feedback to the player when they hit a note. Having storyboard samples in place of hitsounds when there are no notes to press is more disturbing than helpful, and will confuse the player to thinking they've just missed a note.
Move all the samples to the notes in the playfield and make sure there are no storyboard samples across all difficulties so it's not as confusing to play through the map.

Aaaand here's a short 8K mod just like I said.

8K

8K Column wrote:

S|1|2|3|4|5|6|7

[victorica's 8K Hyper]
00:56:103 (56103|3) - What's the scratch here for? You don't have this scratch on the harder difficulty, so it'd be better to keep pattern consistency by removing this scratch note.

01:30:054 (90054|2) - I believe this is a ghost note. You don't have this note on similar parts of the map, (see 01:31:345 - , 01:35:216 - , and 01:36:506 - ) and I don't hear anything that can support why that's there, so that should be removed.


[victorica's 8K Leggendaria]
00:34:974 (34974|0,35054|7,35081|0,35135|5,35189|0,35216|3,35296|0) - This is the part that's hard and uncomfortable to play. You have 1/3 scratch jacks with 1/4 notes in the mix, resulting in a cruel polyrhythm that can throw players off when they're not expecting the vocal to come into play, and as a player it's very difficult to approximate when the notes come in.
Moving those jacks to other columns wouldn't hurt the quality of the mapset overall, plus it'd make it much easier to go through.
Same goes for these patterns:
00:40:135 (40135|0,40216|3,40243|0,40296|5,40350|0,40377|3,40458|0) -
00:58:200 (58200|0,58280|3,58307|0,58361|5,58415|0,58522|0) -

00:37:877 (37877|0,37958|0,38038|6,38038|0,38119|4,38119|0,38200|0) - Pretty much the same issue, but the 1/4 scratch jacks just makes it brutal. Why not place them in other columns instead of cramping them up in one column so it's a lot more comfortable to play through?
Same suggestion for these patterns:
01:01:103 (61103|0,61103|3,61183|5,61183|0,61264|0,61264|3,61345|5,61345|0,61425|0) -

00:41:748 (41748|1,41829|3,41909|1,41990|3) - Move these notes to other columns. It doesn't really make sense as to why the long 1|3|1|3 trill starts earlier when it should start when the snares come in at 00:42:070 - to help put further emphasis on those drum snares.

01:03:361 (63361|0,63683|0) - It's pretty inconsistent if you mapped scratch jacks on the same vocals but not have them present here. Can you explain why it's like that?

01:30:054 (90054|7) - Same suggestion on your Hyper difficulty. A ghost note such as this one should be removed for the same reason.

01:31:103 (91103|0) - Did you mean to map a scratch here? Again, no crash / vocal / notable sound to justify why that note exists, so it's best to remove that.
Before you reply to this mod, there's just one more thing to note.

Unlike BMS, osu! still doesn't fully support the dual scratch mechanic that you can use on BMS with a turntable. Unfortunately, osu! isn't IIDX or any game that primarily uses a turntable, and there are not many turntable players that play this game since the majority of the player base uses a keyboard. You'll have to conform to the system and the current game mechanics as it is now.
As you may have known, a bug in the game shouldn't affect the map's rankability, but you'll have to accept that you don't map very uncomfortably when you're trying to rank a map. Keep in mind that osu! is run by a community. There's a problem if a good amount of players don't feel comfortable about a pattern and have voiced their opinion about it in the map's thread.

Also, will the mappers please explain why they want to keep certain patterns the way they are? Justifying it based on an instrument or a sound that exists in the song is not enough to warrant why it's mapped that way. Bringing other rhythm games in the argument is not a valid point to explain those patterns, either. Those games are run under a different system, and it's not the same as this one, so that argument doesn't make any sense.

I hope this disqualification goes on smoothly from here. If there is any misconduct among users, further action will be taken. You've all been warned.

Once again, good luck.
liaoxingyao
还是不要rank了,每次被dq你很爽阿
Akasha-
Okay . . . Again . . .
juankristal
Cut the nonsense already. No need to post those emojis.
Akasha-
General


Storyboard samples shouldn't be used unless there's a break in the map. Hitsounds exist to provide audible feedback to the player when they hit a note. Having storyboard samples in place of hitsounds when there are no notes to press is more disturbing than helpful, and will confuse the player to thinking they've just missed a note.
Move all the samples to the notes in the playfield and make sure there are no storyboard samples across all difficulties so it's not as confusing to play through the map.
It's guideline, sample hitsound is fine unless you added 1/6 sample on 1/8 part, or kind of that
Most players turn off hitsound volume to 0% for a better gameplay in their opinion but for me I turn it on 100%, but for that, sample hitsound + normal hitsound on playfield (notes + long notes has hitsound) are fine to me, I've done this kind of hitsound for 1 year already and never head or get mention about this, guideline still being guideline, as long as it's not unrankable issues imo


ExPew wrote:

dat dq lmao

i wonder how sv teleport can be ranked even little scratch jack cannot be ranked
Ayachi-

liaoxingyao wrote:

还是不要rank了,每次被dq你很爽阿
...
不知道有沒有要重新起飛
richardfeder

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

liaoxingyao wrote:

还是不要rank了,每次被dq你很爽阿
...
不知道有沒有要重新起飛
拿头飞[不知道...你有没有.jpg]
[Emiria]
make some selfchange
Sandalphon
Just saying 50% of my rank maps are using samples hitsound.
[Emiria]
tired
Lirai
few discuss with mapper
felt sorry to db, community doesnt accept real hard map instead of spam pp map
he did removed the scratch jack. which is the main reason QAT dq (community) because uncomfortable which is should be challenging for players.
sample hitsound still used because it's part of the song, not because fill the break time of the map so we skip through it

RE:Bubbled


this map could be dedicated for those turntable players so they could enjoy this game as other osumania players too

let 2 unrankable map ranked, he doesnt even touch it. nice job
very simple very naive
Topic Starter
Spy
I don't think using Sample hitsound get any unrankable issues. I used to do it in my many maps but they are fine.
And sometimes sample hitsound could represent for other sound that not the note we put in the map. I don't think it is a bad thing and must changed into notes. It's ridiculous.
Updated 8K diffs.
Lirai
late post, very 87
snoverpk_old

DE-CADE wrote:

few discuss with mapper
felt sorry to db, community doesnt accept real hard map instead of spam pp map
he did removed the scratch jack. which is the main reason QAT dq (community) because uncomfortable which is should be challenging for players.
sample hitsound still used because it's part of the song, not because fill the break time of the map so we skip through it

RE:Bubbled


this map could be dedicated for those turntable players so they could enjoy this game as other osumania players too

let 2 unrankable map ranked, he doesnt even touch it. nice job
very simple very naive
1. "community doesnt accept real hard map" this point is false for many reasons
a. this map is not hard
b. the BNs are usually the ones rejecting actual hard maps or really any maps in general because the entire system is seemingly corrupt in some way from what i've seen with trying to communicate with BNs

2. "he did removed the scratch jack. which is the main reason QAT dq (community) because uncomfortable which is should be challenging for players."
there's a fine line between uncomfortable patterns and garbage patterns
poly scratch jacks never go well
edit: i'll also mention: scratch jacks don't instantly make your map special or unique

3. "this map could be dedicated for those turntable players so they could enjoy this game as other osumania players too"
i'm pretty sure turntable players can't play this map either because you can't have 2 inputs on the same key at once which makes scratch jacking frustrating no matter if it's on keyboard or turntable since as far as i know turntable scratch inputs last for quite a while
edit: there's also the fact that osu!mania is primarily a KEYBOARD game and NOT a turntable game therefore straight up copying IIDX isn't going to work no matter what you try to do

i should probably also mention the fact that every single BN and all the mappers in this set ignored every reason why this map was originally DQ'd therefore this map shouldn't have been requalified again before it was fixed in the first place, since that's breaking the rules isn't it?
stryver12

DE-CADE wrote:

this map could be dedicated for those turntable players so they could enjoy this game as other osumania players too

let 2 unrankable map ranked, he doesnt even touch it. nice job
very simple very naive

snoverpk wrote:

2. "he did removed the scratch jack. which is the main reason QAT dq (community) because uncomfortable which is should be challenging for players."
there's a fine line between uncomfortable patterns and garbage patterns
poly scratch jacks never go well
edit: i'll also mention: scratch jacks don't instantly make your map special or unique
Only the 1/4s are worth CONSIDERING of removal, the 1/3s are still doable.
There's a reason why these maps are unique, at least for osu!mania, because only a few (3 that I know: BBKKBKK, Reanimate, and this) 8K maps uses scratch lanes to extreme levels while keeping the pace of the action in the play area (the 7key play area). If the scratches are mapped while only a little bit or nothing going on in the play area, nobody will notice it as a problem because they can focus on jacking or trilling them.

snoverpk wrote:

i'm pretty sure turntable players can't play this map either because you can't have 2 inputs on the same key at once which makes scratch jacking frustrating no matter if it's on keyboard or turntable since as far as i know turntable scratch inputs last for quite a while
edit: there's also the fact that osu!mania is primarily a KEYBOARD game and NOT a turntable game therefore straight up copying IIDX isn't going to work no matter what you try to do
clockwise and anti-clockwise scratches are different inputs (AFAIK), so this is false (unless there's a proof about this).
snoverpk_old
clockwise and anti-clockwise scratches are different inputs (AFAIK), so this is false (unless there's a proof about this).
so is right shift and < which i use for scratching but i can't press both of them at once or the inputs just don't work which makes scratch jacking very difficult
stryver12

snoverpk wrote:

clockwise and anti-clockwise scratches are different inputs (AFAIK), so this is false (unless there's a proof about this).
so is right shift and < which i use for scratching but i can't press both of them at once or the inputs just don't work which makes scratch jacking very difficult
however.... when you backspin, technically you release the input for the previous spin and press the input of the current spin. So technically it's playable, but I don't have a turntable, so....
Lirai
Yeah guys stop it. I already did a lot of effort to persuade db to change his pattern by talking smoothly, listen in his opinion and correct him what is wrong like no one here since first dq
Feerum
Hello.

Victorica please reply properly to Blocko's DQ-Mod and say what was changed and what not.
It wouldn't also hurt to get first the feedback of the people who complained here about the quality/playability of the pattern if they are fine with the change which was made or not before you try to push this Map back to ranked. It really helps to avoid further disqualifications.

Also to the Modder who are not fine with the pattern: Please give a proper reason why exactly the pattern play bad. Is it uncomfortable to play? Is it just "overdone"? Given a suggestion how the Mapper could fix it would also be a huge help.

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

It's guideline, sample hitsound is fine unless you added 1/6 sample on 1/8 part, or kind of that
Most players turn off hitsound volume to 0% for a better gameplay in their opinion but for me I turn it on 100%, but for that, sample hitsound + normal hitsound on playfield (notes + long notes has hitsound) are fine to me, I've done this kind of hitsound for 1 year already and never head or get mention about this, guideline still being guideline, as long as it's not unrankable issues imo
Even when it is a guideline it should be only broken when it really makes sense. Can you explain me why keeping the storyboarded samples help to improve the quality and playability of the map?
Especially on the lower difficulty's are such hitsounds very disturbing. Player hear a ton of sounds which doesn't belong to the beatmap itself and doesn't get played.
And how do you know that most player turn hitsound volume to 0%? Can you prove that statement?

Anyways, gonna pop this bubble until victorica give a proper mod reply to Blocko's DQ-Mod and i saw that you get feedback of the player who are complained about it. Osu is a community game and mapper should work together with the community and not just stubborn force their map into Ranking. This is not how it work. Of course it is still your Map and you are not forced to accept certain changing's but then give a proper reason why exactly you do not accept the changing and why exactly your pattern play better than the suggestion of the community. Some player try to help you to improve your difficulty's in this mapset and you should work at least with these together to find a way where both sides are fine with it.
Ayachi-
So sample hitsound is unrankable...
Also you won't be always mapping every single sound in a map, which means that there are sounds with no notes, it is same as putting a sample hitsound but the first one isn't a problem and the second one is?
Lirai
victorica already removed scratch vocal jack that people complained about, whats the point for further explanation. I think you didnt check the map


Spy wrote:

I don't think using Sample hitsound get any unrankable issues. I used to do it in my many maps but they are fine.
And sometimes sample hitsound could represent for other sound that not the note we put in the map. I don't think it is a bad thing and must changed into notes. It's ridiculous.
Updated 8K diffs.
If you disagree with Spy instead of popping my bubble from nowhere, why not discuss with him in game or anywhere you want. if both of you agreed that there's something need to change on the map then you can pop it. Not like this
Loctav

DE-CADE wrote:

If you disagree with Spy instead of popping my bubble from nowhere, why not discuss with him in game or anywhere you want. if both of you agreed that there's something need to change on the map then you can pop it. Not like this
could as well just discuss here and let everyone see the discussion as it takes place instead of just walking in, rebubble without anybody even really having a chance to properly track what's going on or what has been changed and that's about it.

If you are unable to track the changes that were made by properly documenting them in this thread, don't be surprised that people walk in, pop things and ask for clarification.
Lirai

Loctav wrote:

could as well just discuss here and let everyone see the discussion as it takes place instead of just walking in, rebubble without anybody even really having a chance to properly track what's going on or what has been changed and that's about it.

If you are unable to track the changes that were made by properly documenting them in this thread, don't be surprised that people walk in, pop things and ask for clarification.
yes. it's not bad idea discussing here. But ask clarification first and then pop when both sides agreed or instead talked to who bubble it first. i'm not surprised at all when someone pop my bubble because just find a small unrankable issue and admit it as my mistake.
juankristal

DE-CADE wrote:

Loctav wrote:

could as well just discuss here and let everyone see the discussion as it takes place instead of just walking in, rebubble without anybody even really having a chance to properly track what's going on or what has been changed and that's about it.

If you are unable to track the changes that were made by properly documenting them in this thread, don't be surprised that people walk in, pop things and ask for clarification.
yes. it's not bad idea discussing here. But ask clarification first and then pop when both sides agreed or instead talked to who bubble it first. i'm not surprised at all when someone pop my bubble because just find a small unrankable issue and admit it as my mistake.
I think thats not how it works. You have to make it clear when you bubble something otherwise, you cant really complain if it gets popped. Communication issues.
stupud man

stryver12 wrote:

snoverpk wrote:

-snip-
however.... when you backspin, technically you release the input for the previous spin and press the input of the current spin. So technically it's playable, but I don't have a turntable, so....
This chart isn't playable with a controller. I asked a controller player to try this chart live, he got an 86% mainly because he couldn't hit the scratches. If you want I can get a recording of myself playing the older version of this with a controller.

EDIT: I figured something out. Depending on the PCB, firmware, or controller itself, you may or may not be able to scratch. There is a workaround to the doublescratching issue on an ASC but it's difficult to figure out. EDIT 3: This solution extremely increases the turntable sensitivity so misfires are quite common.

EDIT 2: Another solution is to bind your scratch in joy2key or xpadder but from what I can see it creates input lag. Seems like the people I asked to test this weren't aware of these solutions at the time, however this is understandable seeing as how finding a workaround for this issue is somewhat inconvenient and honestly isn't worth the effort.
Ayachi-
Hope the issues get fixed soon so the map can get requalified
SPOILER

not playable ????????????????????????????
stryver12

stupud man wrote:

This chart isn't playable with a controller. I asked a controller player to try this chart live, he got an 86% mainly because he couldn't hit the scratches. If you want I can get a recording of myself playing the older version of this with a controller.

EDIT: I figured something out. Depending on the PCB, firmware, or controller itself, you may or may not be able to scratch. There is a workaround to the doublescratching issue on an ASC but it's difficult to figure out. EDIT 3: This solution extremely increases the turntable sensitivity so misfires are quite common.

EDIT 2: Another solution is to bind your scratch in joy2key or xpadder but from what I can see it creates input lag. Seems like the people I asked to test this weren't aware of these solutions at the time, however this is understandable seeing as how finding a workaround for this issue is somewhat inconvenient and honestly isn't worth the effort.
Ehhhh..... too bad :(
Topic Starter
Spy
So I just want to know what is the problem now.
biemote

thank you for scratching~
stryver12

biemote wrote:


thank you for scratching~

Start at 7:02
Lirai

Spy wrote:

So I just want to know what is the problem now.
need your explanation about your sample hitsound on certain instrument sound on the map. they said its very disturbing and it confuse between the pattern at gameplay
stupud man

stryver12 wrote:

stupud man wrote:

This chart isn't playable with a controller. I asked a controller player to try this chart live, he got an 86% mainly because he couldn't hit the scratches. If you want I can get a recording of myself playing the older version of this with a controller.

EDIT: I figured something out. Depending on the PCB, firmware, or controller itself, you may or may not be able to scratch. There is a workaround to the doublescratching issue on an ASC but it's difficult to figure out. EDIT 3: This solution extremely increases the turntable sensitivity so misfires are quite common.

EDIT 2: Another solution is to bind your scratch in joy2key or xpadder but from what I can see it creates input lag. Seems like the people I asked to test this weren't aware of these solutions at the time, however this is understandable seeing as how finding a workaround for this issue is somewhat inconvenient and honestly isn't worth the effort.
Ehhhh..... too bad :(
My point is that this map definitely isn't a gift, and shouldn't be "dedicated" to controller players. If they want to play this chart they have to either deal with a misfiring turntable or spend time adjusting their offset to compensate for input lag that an external program would introduce. It's inconvenient.

On another note I played all of the 8K diffs and they feel fine. Thanks so much for making the changes Spy.
Akasha-

DE-CADE wrote:

Spy wrote:

So I just want to know what is the problem now.
need your explanation about your sample hitsound on certain instrument sound on the map. they said its very disturbing and it confuse between the pattern at gameplay
To QAT: My explaintion for that I've PM with Feerum and talk about this before so I won't repeat it another time
How it's disturbing? Is it disturbing when hitsound is not missing?
The only thing disturbing for hitsound to me is missing hitsound which is really annoying, I add sample to make it more better with that
So on, I didn't add it randomly, like this part 1/4, this part 1/8 on calm part etc. I added it for purpose

If you still complain about it sure i will remove it, I'm tired of this
i've done a lot of hitsound chart since 2015, idk why up till now you guys complains about it
No such players complains about this kind of hitsound to me before
Feerum
Hello.
DE-CADE please stop focus on one thing, it seems you didn't even read my post of the bubble pop.

Here again because it's not only about the hitsound thing:

Feerum wrote:

Anyways, gonna pop this bubble until victorica give a proper mod reply to Blocko's DQ-Mod and i saw that you get feedback of the player who are complained about it.
It is not enough to say "Yeah, we fixed this and this" in a bubble post after a DQ. I want to see a proper reply to Blocko's post and read what got changed. What you did accept and what not.
I also want to see that you try to communicate with the people who did complain here.
AncuL
just me pointing out small things. dun gib me anything

[Victorica's 8K Leggendaria]

01:26:183 (86183|5) - Inconsistency. Might want to remove
01:32:393 - 01:33:683 - The synths could be emphasized
01:33:522 (93522|2,93522|6,93603|7,93603|3,93683|6,93683|1,93764|4,93845|2,93845|5,93845|7,93925|6,93925|3,94006|4,94006|1,94006|7) - Overdone?
01:38:441 (98441|7,98441|4,98441|1) - Why three notes?

This difficulty is wildly inconsistent. It could be either good or bad. I enjoy playing it though 8) good luck
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