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Things you'd like to see most in ranked mania maps? (poll)

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Things (or changes) you'd like to see most in ranked mania maps

More easy maps targeted towards beginning mania players (for any keymode)
31
4.51%
More difficult maps targeted towards 'ET' players (for any keymode)
102
14.83%
More "anti-meta" keys ranked (any keymode excluding 4K or 7K)
52
7.56%
Ability to rank keys outside of 4~9K (1K, 2K, 3K, 10K+)
27
3.92%
Wider variety of song choices in mania maps
100
14.53%
Higher quality of maps in general
115
16.72%
Ability to rank maps like dump files (may have ghost notes but generally follow the song)
53
7.70%
Ability to separate the mania rankings by keymode (ex. 4K has a separate ranking from 7K)
110
15.99%
Ability for unranked mods (DT, RD, etc.) to be rankable (with some balance changes)
83
12.06%
Other
15
2.18%
Total votes: 688
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Kamikaze
Something that I forgot to add. What I've learned being part of this community for a bit is that if you want something ranked (for example more anti-meta maps, more keysounded maps, more xxx genre songs) talking about it won't do shit. You have to step up and do it for yourself and at the same time do everything in your power to spread awareness. That's what I did with anti-meta project and you can see the results, pepole are starting to map more keymodes, a lot more 8K is getting ranked and even usage of term anti-meta itself as a referrence to 5/6/8/9K is something I've started/spread across with big enough effort.
That's also why I don't like threads like this one. Talking about how much you want xyz maps to get ranked is useless because pepole will nod and go on without doing much about it. Don't talk about the change. Be the change. I'll support you as much as I can.
Cuppp
Make 1 diff rankable regardless of length of song, remove stupid 3 of either E/N/H/I rule.
Make dumps rankable (ghost notes n stuff) as long as the chart plays well with the song.
Different rankings for key-set. Currently it's actually fucking stupid making you play all keys to be on par with rest, not that rank actually matters, but since it's already there, it kinda does.
Rilene
Dumps being rankable would be nice if used properly like key mapping, the example would be like the song has intense 1/2 on ending chorus, using 1/4 with hitsounds to emphasizing would be awesome.


Jole wrote:

Rilene wrote:

"Wider variety of song choices in mania maps"

About this, I don't think this matter any at all as you can have any songs in osu!, even songs with inappropriate languages or sound.
While osu offers the freedom of having any song you'd like, there are not enough mappers or modders that want to take care of anything but the usual TV size or SDVX bollocks. That is the reason why this option is in the poll
Oh well, that's kinda right.
Usual TV size or SDVX songs is too mainstream, I saw them almost everywhere in osu!mania beatmap listing.

Unless if it is like 7* on 7K or 6* on 4K then that would be something interesting or it is fully-hitsounded then that would be something unique.


-Kamikaze- wrote:

That's also why I don't like threads like this one. Talking about how much you want xyz maps to get ranked is useless because pepole will nod and go on without doing much about it. Don't talk about the change. Be the change. I'll support you as much as I can.
I want to rank by BMS map but no modders, even requested at modding queue. :(
Raediaufar
I'm agree with kami's opinion. If you want to have more ranked maps that based on what you've choosed in the poll above you need to be the one who do that. I'm also have already started to map full length song and even try to rank it. But for me, it's a bit difficult to map outside 4k, 6k and 7k because of my lack of experience on playing other keys besides that.

And for dump maps I have to disagree, lots of them are fun tbh but it's not something I would like to see in ranked maps later on. Like using 4 notes for only kick sound and map 1/6 sound to 1/12 is not good and makes playing nonsense.
Redon
Rilene

Redon wrote:

- Consistency within and across diffs
- Difficulty balance, don't make the last third of the map twice as hard as the rest
- No LN spam/layering abuse, treat LN ends as a note of its own, pay attention to when a sound ends and what warrants an LN, also see above
- No SV that aren't sightreadable, look at Agka's guide on how to make them playable
Basically these are needed.
Bobbias
The sad part of all this is that those should all be dealt with by BNs being more careful about what gets nominated. Of course, the other issue is that when someone else points out problems with those things, it's up to the mapper to make changes and fix their map.
Elementaires

Cuppp wrote:

Make 1 diff rankable regardless of length of song, remove stupid 3 of either E/N/H/I rule.
Rilene

Elementaires wrote:

Cuppp wrote:

Make 1 diff rankable regardless of length of song, remove stupid 3 of either E/N/H/I rule.
But we still have problem, if we remove this ranking criteria, it would have to affect other gamemode as well.
And isn't doesn't it requires 2 diff?
Evening
is anything going to change after this discussion
Rilene

Evening wrote:

is anything going to change after this discussion
Maybe.
Just maybe.
Or maybe not.
Arzenvald
why people thinks ENHI rules should be removed anyway, osu! is not arcade game where 1 song can only have 1 diff (marathon are exception)..
people try to learn to basic with appropriate diff spread on each beatmap, removing this rule is simply nonsense..
Evening

Rilene wrote:

Evening wrote:

is anything going to change after this discussion
Maybe.
Just maybe.
Or maybe not.
what a shame ~
Rilene

Evening wrote:

what a shame ~
amen


ExUsagi wrote:

why people thinks ENHI rules should be removed anyway, osu! is not arcade game where 1 song can only have 1 diff (marathon are exception)..
people try to learn to basic with appropriate diff spread on each beatmap, removing this rule is simply nonsense..
Well, to be honest, agree.
_Kemo

Cuppp wrote:

Make 1 diff rankable regardless of length of song, remove stupid 3 of either E/N/H/I rule.
This is never gonna happen and if it does it's definitely the worst idea ever.

The difficulty-spread criteria is in fact the most important cause of osu having newbie players continuously coming in. This allows players from all skill levels to enjoys the particular song getting ranked by finding the appropriate difficulty.

Imagine how sad it is if you are a new player playing rhythm game for the first time and discover that all the songs you like only have one hard as hell diff, or if you are a pro player immigrating from other game finding all kinds of easy and boring maps (This actually happens a lot and that's why I vote for ranking harder maps).
Topic Starter
Jinjin

Evening wrote:

is anything going to change after this discussion
This thread wasn't created with the intent to change anything tbh :/ I was interested in the opinions that the mania players have about ranked maps and what they want from ranked maps.
Bobbias
The argument about one diff maps is dumb. And not for the reason you guys might think.

This is osu!, a game where essentially anyone can open the editor and make maps. If we allowed single diffs to be rankable, what would happen is that we would be bombarded by hundreds of single difficulties ranging from the easiest all the way up to the hardest. The majority of mania players and mappers are unable to play or map ET level stuff, period. And that is why we will not suddenly be flooded by entirely Insane/ET level maps if we remove that rule. In fact, I'd say we'd have far more easy difficulties than hard ones. The real difference with the easy difficulties is that they would be relatively low quality compared to the harder difficulties, because most mappers capable of making hard diffs will stop making easier ones and allow the new mappers to cover that region of difficulty.

On top of that, osu! doesn't restrict you from mapping the same song someone else mapped. Find a song with only an Insane difficulty for it? Make an easier difficulty. Without requiring multiple difficulties per map it would be easy to fill difficulty gaps by mapping your own diff.

The strongest argument for keeping multiple diffs as a requirement in mapsets is for consistency in the ranked maps, and consistency within mapsets.
juankristal

Bobbias wrote:

The argument about one diff maps is dumb. And not for the reason you guys might think.

This is osu!, a game where essentially anyone can open the editor and make maps. If we allowed single diffs to be rankable, what would happen is that we would be bombarded by hundreds of single difficulties ranging from the easiest all the way up to the hardest. The majority of mania players and mappers are unable to play or map ET level stuff, period. And that is why we will not suddenly be flooded by entirely Insane/ET level maps if we remove that rule. In fact, I'd say we'd have far more easy difficulties than hard ones. The real difference with the easy difficulties is that they would be relatively low quality compared to the harder difficulties, because most mappers capable of making hard diffs will stop making easier ones and allow the new mappers to cover that region of difficulty.

On top of that, osu! doesn't restrict you from mapping the same song someone else mapped. Find a song with only an Insane difficulty for it? Make an easier difficulty. Without requiring multiple difficulties per map it would be easy to fill difficulty gaps by mapping your own diff.

The strongest argument for keeping multiple diffs as a requirement in mapsets is for consistency in the ranked maps, and consistency within mapsets.
In my opinion, going for GD is the best thing that you can do in this case. Keeping the rule for the good point of the consistency with the mapset, giving the oportunity to new mappers and of course, more focus on that dif because that will be the only dif that the guest mapper is doing. Dunno, might be just me.
It will also speed up the ranking, 2 persons asking for mods > Only 1.
Tristan97

juankristal wrote:

In my opinion, going for GD is the best thing that you can do in this case. Keeping the rule for the good point of the consistency with the mapset, giving the oportunity to new mappers and of course, more focus on that dif because that will be the only dif that the guest mapper is doing. Dunno, might be just me.
It will also speed up the ranking, 2 persons asking for mods > Only 1.

Honestly, we have /some/ easier difficulties now, there are plenty of ranked and unranked stuff to go around for beginners to get used to the game on keymodes from 4K to 8K (especially 4K, and then 7K). Restricting people to NEEDing to cater for EVERY player for EVERY mapping they make is discouraging and causing many experienced mappers to not rank charts they do want to rank. Maybe noobies seeing all of 5+ star charts will clue them into the fact that anything below 4 stars is considered VERY easy in the world of VSRG, which could contribute to improving the culture of the game-mode. Consistency within a mapset doesn't really exist? Each difficulty is different from the others, that's the point of having them. The reason they are there is for new players to play them. Let's realize that there is nothing actually preventing a player from playing an insane difficulty beside the fact that they haven't played the game enough to be able to play it. In this sense, this ranking criteria is Pandering to new and inexperienced players. Guest Difficulties should not cause issue in this sense in terms of 'mapset consistency', which is a highly subjective criterion that is in need of both detailed definition and concise clarification of rankable and unrankable types of charts.

GD are infact a good way to introduce mappers to the mapping scene, but the GD in my opinion should be able to map any difficulty along with whatever difficulty the set's main mapper mapped. If pandering to those that 'can't play the ridiculous hard charts and are being unfairly excluded' then why not require a beginner or a normal difficulty, and nothing else?

'It will also speed up the ranking, 2 persons asking for mods > Only 1'

This is nearly laughable in the sense that the more mappers involved in a mapset, the larger number of sittings there are required to respond to mods for differing individuals and the number of interactions and communications between these individuals increases dramatically.

SPOILER
Anyways, since this will never change, I'll just say that this decision has been, is currently, and will forever cause quality, talented, (and most importantly, experienced) mappers to be discouraged from trying to rank osu!mania charts, further promoting disunity in the osu!mania gamemode (and likely detracting from general revenue from supporter purchases and otherwise).

Sorry for posting personal opinions. Feel free to moderate them out or just remove my post entirely if I don't do it myself.
Bobbias
I'm glad at least someone else gets my point, although I still think your downplaying just how many easier difficulties we have. I should also point out that autoconverts provide literally thousands of easy diffs for newcomers to practice on before moving on to real mania maps. As much as I'm against them being ranked, I certainly see the value they add to the game mode in terms of beginner material.

I admitted that the consistency thing was at least a valid argument, but even that I feel is a weak one. Like tristan said, consistency is poorly defined. Heck, it's honestly not even present in many mapsets with a single creator, either. And personally, while I think it can be interesting to see a mapset where each difficulty feels consistent with the others, sometimes it's not possible, and it shouldn't be forced in any way either.

Allowing single diffs to be ranked would also allow new mappers to get their maps ranked faster, since a new mapper currently still needs to make 2 rankable diffs as a bare minimum. Unless they already have a fair bit of skill at the game, new mappers will generally focus on easy or normal level diffs since that's often where their skill range lies.
Tristan97
Never encourage the autoconverts. It's a trap in every way shape and form and Bobbias I know you know that. Standard mappers will only play those charts because they want to 'play the songs they know and love' which is often grotesque weeaboo songs and then get accustomed to playing autoconverts (and their patterns) (and mainly the 4K key-mode) and everything else.


You know what I want to see in mania?

An appropriately constructed method of introducing standard players to the mania mode (and VSRG).
Not 'download the mania songs'. Not 'get used to the mode by playing autoconverts'. Not https://osu.ppy.sh/s/77753

Give them something along the lines of the O2Jam intro chart, or an explanation of the VSRG genre or SOMETHING that can get curious osu! fans formally introduced to the mania game-mode.

This will help more than any individual trying to shape mania for the better will in the foreseeable future.

/rant end
juankristal
For all of you guys, its not like I dont understand your points. Most of them are cool things but you cant just asume that something that is "lower than 5* is easy. Its considered easy for those who are top players and blabla, just as any other gamemode here in osu! You cant just get in the game, just play 5* stuff until you make it and get better. There is a learning curve like any other game and thats why a spread is really needed in my opinion.

You can go to Taiko for example and you always see spreads with Kantan-Futsuu-Muzu-Oni, etc and not only Inner Oni stuff, even when taiko players consider stuff 4* or low REALLY easy and I can tell you that because I did host a Taiko tourney and even with that they keep doing cool charts and cool stuff. New players have the right to play any ranked map as pro players also have.

Like I said, any "good and experienced" mapper can map and rank stuff, they dont have to go for a full set, they can just do one insane diff and ask someone else for easier ones, I dont see why there are problems on that.

Tristan, you are suggesting to give new players (or STD players) some kind of guideline, explanation of this genre you can go for it and make a thread teaching them!

And also Tristan, we are just disscusing here, anyone has their own opinion and the one that you are throwing here is acceptable, you dont have to say sorry about it tho.

EDIT: To end with this, if experienced and good mappers do care of osu!mania and their quality status or whatever, then they should try to change their mind, get used to the rules and adapt. If not well, its a shame...
BilliumMoto
Basically, good mappers are too lazy to arbitrarily make easier maps



lol
Tidek

BilliumMoto wrote:

Basically, good mappers are too lazy to arbitrarily make easier maps
No
Kamikaze

Tidek wrote:

BilliumMoto wrote:

Basically, good mappers are too lazy to arbitrarily make easier maps
No
In most cases yes.
Arzenvald
by asking the other GD to map easier diff.. sdvx bandwagon set c:
Rilene
Tbh, easy diffs is hell lot easier and faster to map compared to hard diffs.

It can took less than a hour to map 2-min 2* map while 7* could took hours.
Bobbias

Tristan97 wrote:

Never encourage the autoconverts. It's a trap in every way shape and form and Bobbias I know you know that.
Autoconverts are fine for the first day or week or whatever it takes for a new player to internalize exactly how to hit the right key when they see a single note falling down the screen. For that level of skill, they're useful. They also let those players learn by playing whatever terrible weeaboo music they like, instead of having to actually look through mania maps for an easy enough diff. That's the only purpose for which I promote autoconverts. The issue of course is that people rarely understand when it's time to move past autoconverts to proper mania maps.

I've said it many times before, but autoconverts should NEVER have been considered 'ranked', even when there were no ranked mania maps to begin with. It's done more harm than good to mania.

Suppose I decide I want to map a jazz song, and spend tens of hours timing and mapping a brilliant insane/ET level diff, but can't seem to find inspiration for easier diffs. Do you think I'd be able to get enough people to make easier GDs to rank something like that? Suggesting that you can just get GDs to fill your set ignores the issue that unless your song choice is popular in the mania community, it's going to be extraordinarily difficult to find anyone.
lenpai

Rilene wrote:

Tbh, easy diffs is hell lot easier and faster to map compared to hard diffs.

It can took less than a hour to map 2-min 2* map while 7* could took hours.
Faster? Yes. Easy? Not really, if you're after a quality diff.

At least this applies to me. Also, I find the process of mapping non-GD easy stuff painful because I have to exercise variety between diffs and it doesn't fully express the music (undermapping).
[ A v a l o n ]
Any key is OK
Any song is OK
Any star rating is OK

But, i just need to see more fun maps and good maps ranked :'D
that's all
Rilene

Lenfried- wrote:

Faster? Yes. Easy? Not really, if you're after a quality diff.

At least this applies to me. Also, I find the process of mapping non-GD easy stuff painful because I have to exercise variety between diffs and it doesn't fully express the music (undermapping).
Well, trying to do a quality easy map will just took extra 50% time, as you check notes, which aren't that much compared to harder diffs.

By quality, I only mean in terms of patterning.
Flanster
Less noodle shenanigans. (I'm serious.)
Bobbias
LN maps are already underrepresented. If you don't like LNs, don't play LN maps, it's that simple.
Elementaires

LoliFlan wrote:

Less noodle shenanigans. (I'm serious.)
theres not even LN maps lmao
Kamikaze

LoliFlan wrote:

More noodle shenanigans. (I'm serious.)
I agree!
Tidek

Elementaires wrote:

LoliFlan wrote:

Less noodle shenanigans. (I'm serious.)
theres not even LN maps lmao
ok. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/130543
Kamikaze
Okay, that's one properly hard LN map out there, there's a really low amount of those ranked anyway. Would like to see more of those and more well mapped heavy SV gimmick maps as well.
ArcherLove

Rilene wrote:

SDVX and TV size maps is easier to rank compared to others in o!m. ;-;

hard to get BN for LN, mind help?
yeah, it's just I know that most of the BN is busy, and so people will consider for not requesting and then the map can't be ranked

Look at the BN userpage, and actually most of them is "busy/weekend/exam"

omg
Elementaires

ArcherLove wrote:

Rilene wrote:

SDVX and TV size maps is easier to rank compared to others in o!m. ;-;

hard to get BN for LN, mind help?
yeah, it's just I know that most of the BN is busy, and so people will consider for not requesting and then the map can't be ranked

Look at the BN userpage, and actually most of them is "busy/weekend/exam"

omg
except for their friends orz
Drum-Hitnormal
make 200mb fully keysounded 5min map rankeable please
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