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upgrading graphics card question

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20
Yakamaru
17 posts
Joined September 2015
Topic Starter
Yakamaru
so currently i have integrated graphics and i play osu on fullscreen mode with maximum 60 fps.

im currently looking at upgrading to a dedicated 2GB video card, how much of an effect would this have on my gameplay.

why does FPS matter when my game seems to run so smoothly? just general information would be nice, thanks for your time guys!
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
you could grab a 50$ card from like 5 years ago and play with over 1000fps easily. bear in mind the standard for 2d has been set for a long time now. When i ran benchmarks on my previous gt 240 of course i got completely crushed into dust by modern cards like the r9 380 or the gtx 970 in every single 3d simulation, but i achieved scores that were around 70% as good in the 2d tests. I also saw almost no change in osu! when i went from the 240 to the far more expensive modern card.

Basically don't invest in a modern card if you're just looking for osu! frames.

and avoid all used cards & refurbished video cards from this time period, especially if it sounds too good to be true, guarantee they have been thoroughly cooked by buttcoin miners.

Make sure your cpu isnt complete shit too, i highly doubt that's the source of the issue if you cant get over 60 fps though.
Yakamaru
17 posts
Joined September 2015
Topic Starter
Yakamaru

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

you could grab a 50$ card from like 5 years ago and play with over 1000fps easily. bear in mind the standard for 2d has been set for a long time now. When i ran benchmarks on my previous gt 240 of course i got completely crushed into dust by modern cards like the r9 380 or the gtx 970 in every single 3d simulation, but i achieved scores that were around 70% as good in the 2d tests. I also saw almost no change when i went from the 240 to the far more expensive modern card.

Are you sure your GPU is the issue? It's quite likely with integrated but id still run resource monitors and see if your gpu is capping out during gameplay or if you're completely maxing out a cpu core before that happens which would only happen at 60 fps if you're rocking a pentium III or something. I'm fairly sure osu! doesn't utilize multi-threading.
thanks for your reply, my gameplay is not choppy, althought i am on the stable fallback version of the game and if i switch to the latest updated versions of the game i cannot play due to the lag, i have a dual core AMD Athlon processor, my computer is fairly ancient, but like i stated before on the stable fallback i have no lag, i have not checked my resources while running the game to see if i am maxing out my cpu, ive never owned a dedicated graphics card in my life (LOL) so i dont see why i shouldnt just spend $50 and see what happens haha. i do also plan to upgrade to a phenom quad core processor aswell. so maybe these small upgrades will just give me a general better gaming experience.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
FPS matters because the game doesn't just render the frames in the gpu after you make a hit, it does the logic and timing in there too. Meaning that more frames means you have a better chance to hit a 300, essentially. Less frames means that you might only have 6 frames in the 300 window and you're going to have a hard time compared to if you have, say, 100 frames in the 300 window. It's arguably a design flaw but one that is completely eliminated by not having a toaster.

Almost everyone is lagging on non-fallback versions, check the thread in Help, the first post is some guy with a beast machine who cant even play because of the lag.. It's not the hardware's fault.

Also your chip is fine for osu! you didnt give the name of the chip but im assuming you are talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon_II
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
Phenom II x4 processors are still quite serviceable but i'd recommend getting an FX 6300, in many cases it will not only be slightly cheaper but also slightly better, but I guess the reason you are looking for a Phenom II x4 is because your motherboard utilizes an AM3 socket? If that's the case, then I suppose your hands are tied if you're not willing to invest in a newer motherboard.

Keep in mind that with a phenom II x4 and a 50$ graphics card you are going to experience an unholy amount of bottlenecking from your graphics card if you play other games, you might want to invest a little more in your card to complement that cpu better.

i recommend either the 750 ti or the r7 260x for that line. I have to say the r7 260x is a bit more expensive but offers around a ~20% higher performance than the 750 ti. However I believe both will do well with your intended chip and the former card will work fine if you need to keep it cheap.
Last edited by Vuelo Eluko , edited 2 times in total.
Yakamaru
17 posts
Joined September 2015
Topic Starter
Yakamaru
Wow thanks for that reply that helps me understand it better. I do encounter some of what you speak about only having 6 frames to hit a 300 ect.and yes that is the processor I own. It's one of the higher end ones clocking in at 3.1ghz, I would have normally linked it but ya know 6:30am and I'm tired haha. That's also interesting to know about everyone lagging on non fallback versions of the game. I've honestly never upgraded my personal machine but have pretty good knowledge of them. So I figure it's just time to upgrade some things and see if I can get a better general gaming experience. (I play MMO's amd have been stuck on min graphics all my life)
Yakamaru
17 posts
Joined September 2015
Topic Starter
Yakamaru

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

Phenom II x4 processors are still quite serviceable but i'd recommend getting an FX 6300, in many cases it will not only be slightly cheaper but also slightly better, but I guess the reason you are looking for a Phenom II x4 is because your motherboard utilizes an AM3 socket? If that's the case, then I suppose your hands are tied if you're not willing to invest in a newer motherboard.

Keep in mind that with a phenom II x4 and a 50$ graphics card you are going to experience an unholy amount of bottlenecking from your graphics card if you play other games, you might want to invest a little more in your card to complement that cpu better.

i recommend either the 750 ti or the r7 260x for that line. I have to say the r7 260x is a bit more expensive but offers around a ~20% higher performance than the 750 ti. However I believe both will do well with your intended chip and the former card will work fine if you need to keep it cheap.
Yes you are correct, my motherboard is am3 socket, so you are saying my processor will be better than my graphics card and I won't be able to fully utilize my graphics card? The only other game I really play is a Java game that utilizes cpu and not gpu. So I figure I upgrade my gpu for osu and cpu for my other mmo Yeah?
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
nah if you buy a 30-50$ card it will not be able to keep up with your intended phenom chip is on any game that utilizes 3d. That's why i recommended some cards, you'll be getting much more for your money, like 6-7x the performance for only 2x the price.

edit: holy shit im tired, make sure you read this after i edited it
Last edited by Vuelo Eluko , edited 1 time in total.
Yakamaru
17 posts
Joined September 2015
Topic Starter
Yakamaru
Yeah I would like to get into some different games when I upgrade. Would you care to explain the bottleneck situation a little more. I swear I'm not dumb haha. Why would a 2gb ddr3 card hold back a phenom quad core cpu
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
VRAM is simply how much information the video card can store to work with, it says nothing about actual speed.

It all comes down to effective speed. Let's use AMD Phenom II x4 965 Quad Core 3.4 ghz, a solid AM3 cpu that i would recommend for you due to its good single core performance that comes in handy for both java games and 3d games and good overclocking potential especially if it's the Black Edition which you could push up to as much as 4 ghz with a standard aftermarket heatsink heavily depends on your motherboards VRM though, you might not be able to achieve these speeds

...Anyway, this chip is able to be paired with as much as a gtx 960 with only a little bit of bottlenecking in 3d games from the chips side of things. essentially the cpu can just barely not keep up with it. Now if we compare the 960 with the r7 240 which is another 2gb card but is in the 60$ range we see that in tests it's only about 25% as fast. Essentially it's too slow to keep up and will be a bad pairing in 3d games. This says nothing for 2d, however, as they will be roughly equal performers.

Also the reason nvidia cards tend to have less VRAM than AMD but still perform as well comes down to having a much higher cache. I don't want to get into the advantages of that though so ill just say they are both good.

but more VRAM is good to have if you're at higher resolutions are are working with more than one monitor, that's for sure. I don't know what your monitor situation is though, and really the r7 240 is fine if you truly intend to not play gpu intensive games at all on your new cpu.
Last edited by Vuelo Eluko , edited 3 times in total.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
and i do know gpu/cpu utilization varies widly per game, thats why my recommendations [750 ti/r7 260x] are slightly favored to the cpu side of things and being cheap while still offering respectable power for gpu intense games that is only likely to bottleneck in the more extreme cases.

You can absolutely never fully eliminate bottlenecking and have a system that runs at 100% cpu and 100% gpu, it's way too application dependent.
Yakamaru
17 posts
Joined September 2015
Topic Starter
Yakamaru
Thank you so much for explaining that. After some more research I've decided that the phemom x4 925 2.8 ghz that I know my motherboard supports and a 2gb GeForce 610, will make me feel like a kid on Christmas for less than $100 shipped to my door :) these small upgrades will do for now and I can always upgrade again in the future :)
Zelda
5 posts
Joined June 2012
Zelda

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

FPS matters because the game doesn't just render the frames in the gpu after you make a hit, it does the logic and timing in there too. Meaning that more frames means you have a better chance to hit a 300, essentially. Less frames means that you might only have 6 frames in the 300 window and you're going to have a hard time compared to if you have, say, 100 frames in the 300 window. It's arguably a design flaw but one that is completely eliminated by not having a toaster.
Last I checked, peppy claimed that timing isn't handled on a frame by frame basis, do you have some source on this ?
Yakamaru
17 posts
Joined September 2015
Topic Starter
Yakamaru

Zelda wrote:

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

FPS matters because the game doesn't just render the frames in the gpu after you make a hit, it does the logic and timing in there too. Meaning that more frames means you have a better chance to hit a 300, essentially. Less frames means that you might only have 6 frames in the 300 window and you're going to have a hard time compared to if you have, say, 100 frames in the 300 window. It's arguably a design flaw but one that is completely eliminated by not having a toaster.
Last I checked, peppy claimed that timing isn't handled on a frame by frame basis, do you have some source on this ?
Do you have a source?
IppE
IppE
peppy claiming something isn't really a proof of anything though
Zelda
5 posts
Joined June 2012
Zelda
It isn't, but neither is some random guy claiming something that contradicts his claims. I'm not trying to defend peppy's programming skills (or lack of such) or anything, I'm just curious if there is actually any information to back up framebased timing, or if xxjesus1412fanx was just pulling something out of his ass in order to come up with a placebo reason for rendering more frames than a monitor can display.

Yakamaru wrote:

Do you have a source?
Somewhere in about 1.1 million lines of #modhelp log, peppy made that claim. I don't know or care if it's actually true, and I'm not going to bother looking through all of that to try and find that one specific line.
But if you really want to see it for yourself, I can upload the log for you so you can go on a treasure hunt.
IppE
IppE

Zelda wrote:

But if you really want to see it for yourself, I can upload the log for you so you can go on a treasure hunt.
Inspired by this notion, I went looking what he has said in modhelp.

20:25 peppy| 192kbit encoded well is in 99% of cases inperceivably different from lossless
19:01 peppy| hardly any music is transparent at MP3 192
A Medic
460 posts
Joined May 2013
A Medic
I can help direct you to the best possible cost to budget GPU.

What is your current build
What are you trying to run
How much money are you willing to spend
Preferred brand? (You may not have a choice)
Preferred vendor (Amazon, Newegg, Jet, BH etc....)
Zelda
5 posts
Joined June 2012
Zelda

IppE wrote:

Zelda wrote:

But if you really want to see it for yourself, I can upload the log for you so you can go on a treasure hunt.
Inspired by this notion, I went looking what he has said in modhelp.

20:25 peppy| 192kbit encoded well is in 99% of cases inperceivably different from lossless
19:01 peppy| hardly any music is transparent at MP3 192
Oh peppy, you so silly
Kappa FrankerZ
3 posts
Joined June 2013
Kappa FrankerZ
silly since 2007
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