B0aty wrote:

Some of these ro16 matches look pretty uneven, some high vs low seed, for example our team is: 10k, 16k, 17k, 19k, and 19k. Whereas the team we're playing vs is essentially a team of 6 10-11k players

If you passed the group stage, I think you're very good for a Low Seed !
My team is also a Low Seed, but we beat a High Seed during the Group Stage. So it's possible :3

Hanae wrote:

B0aty wrote:

Some of these ro16 matches look pretty uneven, some high vs low seed, for example our team is: 10k, 16k, 17k, 19k, and 19k. Whereas the team we're playing vs is essentially a team of 6 10-11k players

If you passed the group stage, I think you're very good for a Low Seed !
My team is also a Low Seed, but we beat a High Seed during the Group Stage. So it's possible :3

We didn't lose a single map in group stage, but I'm slightly worried about the ro16.
Luckily my teammates are amazing, I'm very fortunate to have met the people I did. I'm sure they'll do fine, I guess it just boils down to the fact that I don't think I can personally compete at this level.
Good luck in your upcoming matches!

B0aty wrote:

We didn't lose a single map in group stage, but I'm slightly worried about the ro16.
Luckily my teammates are amazing, I'm very fortunate to have met the people I did. I'm sure they'll do fine, I guess it just boils down to the fact that I don't think I can personally compete at this level.
Good luck in your upcoming matches!

pls enjoy game , main reasons for all tournaments please have fun...

Some slight issues with the scheduling of the upcoming game, is it possible to reschedule to 11am sunday/move to saturday?

captin1 wrote:

looking at ro16....

do you guys not understand how seeding works and why it exists or are you just stupid

The ro16 matches are based on the amount of points the teams scored in the Group Stage (which reflects the team's performance better than the actual seed given before group stage imo) and this is why there are low seeded teams going against high seeded.

Edit:

Nuime wrote:

The map Chihara Minori - Kyoukai no Kanata for nomod is unavailable for download ;-;
help

Edit: I've gotten the map now from here
I hope for the link in the Round of 16 to be fixed ;w;

Bacon wrote:

Alright guys, so Chihara Minori - Kyoukai no Kanata isn't available for download.

Here is Bloodcat link: https://bloodcat.com/osu/s/129077

Added the Bloodcat link to the main post and thank you Bacon for providing the link before I got to it ^^ Didn't realize the beatmap wasn't available for download anymore.

so
why do you force ppl in #25k-#10k to read AR10 consistently in a tournament for fun?

And your response to captin clearly shows that you didn't get the point of his comment lol

Tehron wrote:

captin1 wrote:

looking at ro16....

do you guys not understand how seeding works and why it exists or are you just stupid

The ro16 matches are based on the amount of points the teams scored in the Group Stage (which reflects the team's performance better than the actual seed given before group stage imo) and this is why there are low seeded teams going against high seeded.

I think you might be missing the point here. o:

Seeding for single elimination after round robin/group stages should reset and be based on the team record during group stages. If we go by your criteria on seeding for the Ro16 brackets, you guarantee that your tournament loses half of their best performing Group Stage teams by putting all the first seeded teams who made it out of the group stages against each other, and the second seeded teams against each other.

Give the above, this means that the team "pls enjoy game", who went an astounding 3-0/3-0/3-0 in their matches faces the other team who also went undefeated with the same record in all the maps they played, "Broke a slider", will face off each other in the Round of 16, right after getting out of Group Stages? The current method doesn't make any sense to me for the following reasons:

1. The two best performing teams in the tournament so far (Group Stages) will NEVER get to face each other in the finals.
2. Half of the 1st place teams from the Group Stages are guaranteed eliminated from the tournament after Ro16, without needing to play out a match to know that.
3. Given that half of the 1st place teams from the Group Stages are eliminated after Ro16, the 2nd seeds from Groups get an "easier" chance to get into the Quarterfinals when the 1st place teams eliminate themselves from the tournament.
4. This method does not reward winning, or else that would mean if I want an easy way to get into Quarterfinals, I would just match fix and guarantee myself into a second seed so I can face another second seed and get into the Quarterfinals.
5. Provided with the above points, the narrative of the finals would be less entertaining because you've guaranteed that there will be a 50/50 split between 1st and 2nd seeded teams in the Quarterfinals, and being closer to the finals, there's more on the line than being in Round of 16 but you've already eliminated half of the other 1st seeded teams from contention, so the fact that the 2nd seeds got to the Quarterfinals without beating a 1st seed doesn't improve the narrative. People are going to say "oh, they just got an easy way into the finals". In addition, at least one of the best performing team in the tournament who went 3-0 without losing a single map has been eliminated and "pls enjoy game" and "Broke a slider" would never meet in the finals.

OWC and osu! All-stars, as well as all other competitive sport and video game tournaments would seed a Round of 16 out of Group Stages by:

1. Having the 1st seeded team out of group stages facing a 2nd seed team that cannot be in the same group as the 1st seed.
2. No two teams from the same group are allowed on the same bracket.
3. The two best 1st seeded teams should be on separate brackets to guarantee that there is potential to meet in the finals.

I would like to propose the above criteria for the new seeding, with respect to the amount of points the teams earned in group stages. The seeding done to set the groups should not have any merit in the seeding for Round of 16.

Giralda wrote:

Tehron wrote:

The ro16 matches are based on the amount of points the teams scored in the Group Stage (which reflects the team's performance better than the actual seed given before group stage imo) and this is why there are low seeded teams going against high seeded.

I think you might be missing the point here. o:

Seeding for single elimination after round robin/group stages should reset and be based on the team record during group stages. If we go by your criteria on seeding for the Ro16 brackets, you guarantee that your tournament loses half of their best performing Group Stage teams by putting all the first seeded teams who made it out of the group stages against each other, and the second seeded teams against each other.

Give the above, this means that the team "pls enjoy game", who went an astounding 3-0/3-0/3-0 in their matches faces the other team who also went undefeated with the same record in all the maps they played, "Broke a slider", will face off each other in the Round of 16, right after getting out of Group Stages? The current method doesn't make any sense to me for the following reasons:

1. The two best performing teams in the tournament so far (Group Stages) will NEVER get to face each other in the finals.
2. Half of the 1st place teams from the Group Stages are guaranteed eliminated from the tournament after Ro16, without needing to play out a match to know that.
3. Given that half of the 1st place teams from the Group Stages are eliminated after Ro16, the 2nd seeds from Groups get an "easier" chance to get into the Quarterfinals when the 1st place teams eliminate themselves from the tournament.
4. This method does not reward winning, or else that would mean if I want an easy way to get into Quarterfinals, I would just match fix and guarantee myself into a second seed so I can face another second seed and get into the Quarterfinals.
5. Provided with the above points, the narrative of the finals would be less entertaining because you've guaranteed that there will be a 50/50 split between 1st and 2nd seeded teams in the Quarterfinals, and being closer to the finals, there's more on the line than being in Round of 16 but you've already eliminated half of the other 1st seeded teams from contention, so the fact that the 2nd seeds got to the Quarterfinals without beating a 1st seed doesn't improve the narrative. People are going to say "oh, they just got an easy way into the finals". In addition, at least one of the best performing team in the tournament who went 3-0 without losing a single map has been eliminated and "pls enjoy game" and "Broke a slider" would never meet in the finals.

OWC and osu! All-stars, as well as all other competitive sport and video game tournaments would seed a Round of 16 out of Group Stages by:

1. Having the 1st seeded team out of group stages facing a 2nd seed team that cannot be in the same group as the 1st seed.
2. No two teams from the same group are allowed on the same bracket.
3. The two best 1st seeded teams should be on separate brackets to guarantee that there is potential to meet in the finals.

I would like to propose the above criteria for the new seeding, with respect to the amount of points the teams earned in group stages. The seeding done to set the groups should not have any merit in the seeding for Round of 16.

This is the kind of feedback I was expecting if someone was to comment on the Ro16 match ups and not what I got from captin1 and Okoratu.
I humbly thank you Giralda for giving this amount of constructive feedback! And to be honest I know the Ro16 match ups aren't the best and these sort of things are bound to happen since this is my first time hosting a tournament. Not saying I'm not at fault here but just pointing this out there.
I agree with Giralda and will rework the matches accordingly, this meaning there will be new schedules shortly after I finish with the Ro16 match ups. I also noted that you mentioned seeding to be reset after group stages and for Ro16 and onward it should be based on the team record during group stages. You also noted seedings in how other tournaments/competetive sport and video game tournaments would seed a Round of 16. I'm assuming you mean the new seedings in this latter part and not the Group Stage seedings, just putting this out there to clarify it for myself and perhaps for anyone else hosting a tournament.

Thank you Tehron for your understanding, but please don't hold it against captin and Oko. They were trying to help and I was the one who mentioned the problem to both of them originally. I hope you could pardon them for that.

For clarification, I do mean seeding in this latter part (Bracket stages) and not Group Stage seedings.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, the seeding order you used to organize the groups for Group Stage (High Seeded, Mid Seeded, Low Seeded, Unseeded) should have no affect in determining team matchups in Round of 16.

Hope that clarifies everything!

Giralda wrote:

Thank you Tehron for your understanding, but please don't hold it against captin and Oko. They were trying to help and I was the one who mentioned the problem to both of them originally. I hope you could pardon them for that.

For clarification, I do mean seeding in this latter part (Bracket stages) and not Group Stage seedings.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, the seeding order you used to organize the groups for Group Stage (High Seeded, Mid Seeded, Low Seeded, Unseeded) should have no affect in determining team matchups in Round of 16.

Hope that clarifies everything!

Thank you again for being very helpful and constructive! If I need any help/have something I think is wrong I'll be sure to pm you since you seem to know how this works best.
And about captin and Oko, I'm not holding it against them I just wish they would've phrased what they had to say differently and been more friendly ^^

For sure
Glad to be able to help make the tourney better~

Okoratu wrote:

so
why do you force ppl in #25k-#10k to read AR10 consistently in a tournament for fun?

You aren't serious... are you? Ofc there are going to be fuckin hr maps in a tournament. There is a line between having skill and having fun. AR10 isn't even hard to read...

I am honestly surprised that The Boy Who Murdered Love got ranked with those stupid ass sliders that end right before the next slider which takes a fullscreen jump to get to...

Tehron wrote:

Okay, so the Group Stage is over and these are the teams advancing into Round of 16:

• 
  Group G

1. Broke a slider
2. We've Been AFK

Round of 16 mappool will be announced shortly!

Yay! So glad that my team "We've Been AFK" had made it through due to another team dropping out. No shame as it saved us due to not being able to have 3 players be at the third game so we got saved hard :/ GL to the 15 other teams that made it, especially "Broke A Slider" as they were super understanding about me having to throw our match due to time and player count restrictions!

atleast RO16 mappool won't be full of FCs
matchs are going to get interesting
looking forward some great matches

Bacon wrote:

Okoratu wrote:

so
why do you force ppl in #25k-#10k to read AR10 consistently in a tournament for fun?

You aren't serious... are you? Ofc there are going to be fuckin hr maps in a tournament. There is a line between having skill and having fun. AR10 isn't even hard to read...

Hey there you seem to be pretty emotional about my opinion. For most people in that rank rage I can imagine the general features of HR to be quite stressful, namely approach rate and hp drain being very high. Combine that with a low density map and you have a lot of pressure on ppl so I was questioning why you're putting high stress on ppl in a tournament aimed to be mostly for fun. Also nice triple post.

Bacon wrote:

Okoratu wrote:

so
why do you force ppl in #25k-#10k to read AR10 consistently in a tournament for fun?

You aren't serious... are you? Ofc there are going to be fuckin hr maps in a tournament. There is a line between having skill and having fun. AR10 isn't even hard to read...

You're right. There is a very fine line between having skill and having fun. You know what the goal of this tournament is? To have fun.

The point Oko is trying to make is that if this is a tournament meant for fun in an 10k-25k skill range, the mappool would have reflected that notion by giving low rankers who aren't really too great, a chance to upset a top or mid seeded team.

In fact let's take the Group Stage pool for example; the two most notable map throughout the entire tournament are Clumsy thoughts HD and GALLOWS BELL HR.

Clumsy thoughts is very circle oriented and jump heavy, it takes a lot more effort and jump stamina for a lower ranked player to play that. Throw on a Hidden mod, and it makes that 2x more difficult for them, yet an experienced HD player would have a less difficult time with the map, given they are a higher rank, with practice that a player between 20k - 25k would likely never have

GALLOWS BELL HR, the most infamous map of the entire group stage pool, has seen the most bans out of teams that aren't low ranked either. Why? Well, it's simple - they can't play it consistently. Why? AR10, OD10, and HP9.8 are the reasons why. When you say AR10, isn't "even that hard", that's probably because you had practice on it. If you had never ever touched AR10, you would never say something like that. Not only is the AR a problem, the slow BPM of the map combined with low object density, high OD (harder to get 300s on time) makes it extremely difficult for lower ranked players to survive on this map. Lack of opportunity to regain HP to survive the high drain (there's probably only 2 areas in the entire map that can give a good boost of HP) makes this map very punishing, simply because these lower ranked players don't have the ability to do so many things you are likely able to do such as keep combo, keep high accuracy, dealing with nerves, etc.

Consider also the type of words I used to describe these two maps; difficult and punishing. These aren't words you would even hear about a map from a tournament that's meant for fun. The moment you mention player skill, it nullifies your argument entirely.

I'm not asking for the mappool selectors to change the entire HR pool, but I hope you consider your entire range of players' skill the next time a tournament is organized.

With Giraldas input on the seeding, will the matchups be redone?

B0aty wrote:

With Giraldas input on the seeding, will the matchups be redone?

Yes I'm currently redoing them, shouldn't take too long. I'll try to have them posted today ^^

Giralda wrote:

I'm not asking for the mappool selectors to change the entire HR pool, but I hope you consider your entire range of players' skill the next time a tournament is organized.

Will do, can't put everything on the fact that this is my first tournament but it has a factor in it. All this is just a learning process for me and will improve the experience for the future tournaments and later rounds in this tournament.
Hoping that people will still have fun even though there are some harder and as you said, punishing maps in the mappools D:

If you can't FC the maps, train instead of criticize the mappool !

Hanae wrote:

If you can't FC the maps, train instead of criticize the mappool !

d

New Schedules are now done and I wish to see any requests to change the schedules as soon as possible since it's already Friday!

Edit: This typo is real -_- *Wednesday.

Hanae wrote:

If you can't FC the maps, train instead of criticize the mappool !

+1

B0aty wrote:

Some slight issues with the scheduling of the upcoming game, is it possible to reschedule to 11am sunday/move to saturday?

I fucked up on the first request, meant saturday :S

is the mappool gunna change

Hanae wrote:

If you can't FC the maps, train instead of criticize the mappool !

thats great! ill go put time freeze dt for osst :^)

Tehron please answer my pms about the schedule already ;_; I'm really worried

http://puu.sh/mEdMA/608075e74b.png

VINXIS wrote:

is the mappool gunna change

Not for Ro16, of course there will be new mappools for future rounds.

_verto_ wrote:

Tehron please answer my pms about the schedule already ;_; I'm really worried

http://puu.sh/mEdMA/608075e74b.png

Waiting for a reply from opposing team.

B0aty wrote:

B0aty wrote:

Some slight issues with the scheduling of the upcoming game, is it possible to reschedule to 11am sunday/move to saturday?

I fucked up on the first request, meant saturday :S

Oh didn't see this here before I sent the pm Oh well, the pm would've been the same either way.

Hi! So I saw the change of schedules and brackets and apparently my team is facing "Sacred Baguettes", who, out of their 4 players, only have 2 over #10,000 rank (2/4 players that can play in the tournament).
Does this mean my team would have to play them 2v2, 3v2, or are they are disqualified? Thank you for reading

Snowwy wrote:

Hi! So I saw the change of schedules and brackets and apparently my team is facing "Sacred Baguettes", who, out of their 4 players, only have 2 over #10,000 rank (2/4 players that can play in the tournament).
Does this mean my team would have to play them 2v2, 3v2, or are they are disqualified? Thank you for reading

Wait untill match day. They still can go back to 10k. If not then you will probably play 2v3.

Snowwy wrote:

Hi! So I saw the change of schedules and brackets and apparently my team is facing "Sacred Baguettes", who, out of their 4 players, only have 2 over #10,000 rank (2/4 players that can play in the tournament).
Does this mean my team would have to play them 2v2, 3v2, or are they are disqualified? Thank you for reading

You can play 2v2 if your team wants to, otherwise it will be played 3v2.

Snajper8 wrote:

Snowwy wrote:

Hi! So I saw the change of schedules and brackets and apparently my team is facing "Sacred Baguettes", who, out of their 4 players, only have 2 over #10,000 rank (2/4 players that can play in the tournament).
Does this mean my team would have to play them 2v2, 3v2, or are they are disqualified? Thank you for reading

Wait untill match day. They still can go back to 10k. If not then you will probably play 2v3.

This too^, thank you Snajper!

Hello , i was wondering if we could get this weekends matches for team (We've Been AFK) rescheduled for saturday around 2 PM UTC or later.

Histoire wrote:

Hanae wrote:

If you can't FC the maps, train instead of criticize the mappool !

thats great! ill go put time freeze dt for osst :^)

2 easy

Hi! Can my game against Sacred Baguettes be scheduled on Sunday, 16:00 UTC? Thanks in advanced!

If only two of our players are able to play, are we allowed to 2v3 or are we disqualified?

edit: nvm saw the post above

Okay since I'm having problems with this matter I'll just post it here.
Whenever I send you a private message about the matches you have (most of the time about it's rescheduling) could I get a reply? Still waiting for replies from multiple people even though it's already Saturday.

Edit: This match is canceled due to a team resigning:
bigsugoioppai - NotEstellia-

This will be a default win for bigsugoioppai and they will advance to the next round.

Damnnn so late at night, guess I can't help my team :C go "We've been AFK"!

Tehron wrote:

Okay since I'm having problems with this matter I'll just post it here.
Whenever I send you a private message about the matches you have (most of the time about it's rescheduling) could I get a reply? Still waiting for replies from multiple people even though it's already Saturday.

Edit: This match is canceled due to a team resigning:
bigsugoioppai - NotEstellia-

This will be a default win for bigsugoioppai and they will advance to the next round.

rip my goals

[Nicole] wrote:

Tehron wrote:

Okay since I'm having problems with this matter I'll just post it here.
Whenever I send you a private message about the matches you have (most of the time about it's rescheduling) could I get a reply? Still waiting for replies from multiple people even though it's already Saturday.

Edit: This match is canceled due to a team resigning:
bigsugoioppai - NotEstellia-

This will be a default win for bigsugoioppai and they will advance to the next round.

rip my goals

sorry we just cant make it, too busy