Ekoro sets some pretty nice FL scores IIRC

Not just some but alot actually.

Some metric for memorization you could use is considering the size of the sightradius at the given time and the size of the approach circle of the next circle to determine the difficulty to aim and to memorize:
The approachcircle has around 3 times the diameter upon first appearance(actually slightly larger) compared to the actual hitcircle and the distance from approachcircle to hitcircle shrinks with a linear behaviour meaning that taking CS, AR and jumpdistance between to hitcircles into account it means that you can calculate whether you can see how far you have to jump(based on the approachcircle or hitcircle) or if you have to memorize how far you have to jump(which is when the approachcircle is outside of the current sightradius).
That should give an idea of which circles you have to memorize and which you don't, also depends a lot on how much time you have available for the jump, big jumps on tight time windows have to be perfectly memorized while it's very easy to hit every jump that has a followpoint on the map you linked me tonight.

Outside of these jumprelated things you should include big bonus-points for any kind of jumps to NCs, especially tight ones(no followpoints=100% memorization based) and small bonus-points for (fast) 1/4 patterns right after a jump to a note where the hitcircle wasn't visible.

Ofc you also have to take into account that the first 100/200 combo aren't as difficult so you'd have to calculate the difficulty based on when the FL-difficulty kicks in at full strength compared to this starting phase.

looking at ExGon's #1 list for std also yields a lot of results for FL

@Rilene: EZHD doesn't compare to FL at all, that's short-time memorization and much more possible especially since the new sliderfade can tell you much more precisely when you have to tap, it almost works as an approachcircle on HD.
^obviously worlds of a difference, i could potentially FC this with EZHD in the near future(im down to 29 misses on a more recent play) while I don't even stand a chance(to pass) with FL.

This is already done actually : )
except for some reason I forgot to decrease approach circle size when time gets closer to object time

Oh.

Kert wrote:

This is already done actually : )
except for some reason I forgot to decrease approach circle size when time gets closer to object time

More advanced would be if you can see the approachcircle of the note after the next one when jumping to the next one as this can be used very effectively for shorttime-memorization.

Some of my scores with my estimates on how high the memory rating should be:
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/46801?m=0 ParagonX9 - Chaoz Fantasy(Relaxing) +DTHRFL #1 ~320
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/23827?m=0Wild Child Bound - EVO(Child) +HDDTFL #1 ~250
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/553189?m=0 MowtenDoo - El Bombito(Experto) +HDHRFL #1 ~570
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11951 Nightcore - Hymn(Hardcore Rave!!!) +FL #3 ~510

Some other scores and my estimates on how high the memory rating should be:
rrtyui - http://osu.ppy.sh/s/186911 Function Phantom - Neuronecia(Ethereal) +FL #6 ~1290
Ekoro - http://osu.ppy.sh/b/66609?m=0 DragonForce - Revolution Deathsquad(Legend) +EZFL #18 ~1130
-GN - http://osu.ppy.sh/s/20328 Kitsune^2 - He Has No Mittens(BD's Mittens) +FL #1 ~1020
-GN - http://osu.ppy.sh/b/82962?m=0 Evoluutiomies - Suklaapallit(Mukun Suklaapallit) +HDDTHRFL #1 ~1010
Ekoro - http://osu.ppy.sh/s/5774 DJ Sharpnel - StrangeProgram(Lesjuh's TAG) +EZFL #2 ~990
Mesita - http://osu.ppy.sh/b/93842?m=0 DJ Fresh - Gold Dust(Insane) +HDFL #1 ~990
Mesita - http://osu.ppy.sh/b/92426?m=0 Sound Horizon - Raijin no Migiude(Insane) +HDFL #1 ~970
-GN - http://osu.ppy.sh/b/34715?m=0 Oriental ST8 - Shoreline(Redesign Style) +HDDTFL #1 ~950
Ekoro - http://osu.ppy.sh/s/15920 beatMARIO - Night of Knights(TAG4) +EZFL #3 ~900
takeki3gou - http://osu.ppy.sh/b/261729 ave;new feat. Sakura Saori - Piste SMILE Non-stop!!(Insane) +HDHRFL #1 ~890
Bikko - http://osu.ppy.sh/b/73494?m=0 capsule - JUMPER(Insane) +HDHRFL #1 ~890
Exgon - http://osu.ppy.sh/b/380646?m=0 Drop - Granat(Extra) +HDFL #2 ~860
Keigoclear - http://osu.ppy.sh/s/34348 xi - Ascension to Heaven(Death) +HDHRFL #2 ~830


Since not many people play FL these days, I boosted up the numbers a bit to accurately represent how memory works, or else everybody would be at 50 memory, with 50 people at 500 memory. I'm not a flashlight god but I do like flashlight from time to time.
Also, memory doesn't only apply to FL, it can also apply to high ar, hidden and even nomod, but that is too hard to calculate.

My advice on calculating memory:
Calculate FL scores based on the score for each note, and add up all the notes to produce a sum which is the score for that song, or you can find another way to calculate
For each note, the score is note multiplier*other multipliers

NOTE MULTIPLIER
Note multiplier is 1 for a hit circle, 2±1 for a slider and 0 for a spinner
For slider calculation, take the slider length(in time) and slider length(in space) and also slider speed into consideration

OTHER MULTIPLIERS
To get other multipliers, use A*B*C*D*E*F where A is the circle size multiplier, B is the agility multiplier, C is the accuracy multiplier, D is the visibility of the circle, E is the speed multiplier and F is the symmetry multiplier. A,B,C and E should be calculated for every note, while D and F are only applicable in certain situations. For D, if the note's approach circle is not visible within the flashlight boundary, or if the note is not visible within the flashlight boundary when HD is used, this should be a value that is greater than 1. For F, if four consecutive notes have an axis of symmetry, or if three notes form a regular triangle, F<1 for all of the notes that can be put into this category.

Reset- wrote:

rrtyui neuronecia

the thread should have ended here, the most impressive thing is that he actually read it instead of just autismally memorizing it like FL HD players do

not sure if scores are the only thing you want, but mesita has a ton of great fl plays even though he doesn't play anymore

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

Reset- wrote:

rrtyui neuronecia

the thread should have ended here, the most impressive thing is that he actually read it instead of just autismally memorizing it like FL HD players do

It's only impressive if you favor sightreading over memorization

i believe it's impressive either way, but if you mean to say more impressive then yeah that's pretty subjective i can't argue that

Kert wrote:

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

the thread should have ended here, the most impressive thing is that he actually read it instead of just autismally memorizing it like FL HD players do

It's only impressive if you favor sightreading over memorization

on a side note, do you plan to favor aim over memorization? :3

Momiji wrote:

on a side note, do you plan to favor aim over memorization? :3

aim goes to Agility and Precision
memorization goes into Memory
???
Nothing is favoured

Kert wrote:

Momiji wrote:

on a side note, do you plan to favor aim over memorization? :3

aim goes to Agility and Precision
memorization goes into Memory
???
Nothing is favoured

Well, I meant in "memory"
Mittens FL is easy to memorize, but a good FL play don't you think?

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/16266?m=0#_=_

I think rustbell's score on this is pretty cool

Random question but who has top 100 scores that are FL? just a random thought but how would this be calculated if it only registers your top 100 scores. lets be honest who here has ATLEAST 1 fl fullcombo that is a top 100 score?
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/28107 Mesita FL fc

Write wrote:

Random question but who has top 100 scores that are FL? just a random thought but how would this be calculated if it only registers your top 100 scores. lets be honest who here has ATLEAST 1 fl fullcombo that is a top 100 score?

osu!skills doesn't only catch your Top Plays but also the 100 best scores of every scoreboard and thanks to FL multiplier most FL-FCs make it into it.

some of Startrick's plays,

I play some EZFLs and FLs
and I think that fl with big circles are really easy


this is great project


and

Endaris wrote:

tl;dr
FL-FC doesn't require much memorization, FL-FC with good accuracy needs a lot more.

what if he just has bad acc

Riviclia wrote:

what if he just has bad acc

He'll inevitably choke then as getting out of rhythm messes with your memorization. Bad acc as in "bad" is always related to improper reading and you can't memorize something you can't read.
Or the map is just short enough to get through somehow.

Endaris wrote:

Write wrote:

Random question but who has top 100 scores that are FL? just a random thought but how would this be calculated if it only registers your top 100 scores. lets be honest who here has ATLEAST 1 fl fullcombo that is a top 100 score?

osu!skills doesn't only catch your Top Plays but also the 100 best scores of every scoreboard and thanks to FL multiplier most FL-FCs make it into it.

ah that makes sense i've got alot of top 10 scores with fl thanks for clearing that up for me.

mfw my plays are not even mentioned

here's my opinion tho

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/20328 -GN
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/257793 Ekoro
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/186911 rrtyui
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/48098 Ekoro
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/66609 Ekoro
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/514516 BluOxy & M O O N
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/53554 Adamqs
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/580225 Startrick

FGSky wrote:

mfw my plays are not even mentioned

here's my opinion tho

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/20328 -GN
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/257793 Ekoro
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/186911 rrtyui
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/48098 Ekoro
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/66609 Ekoro
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/514516 BluOxy & M O O N
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/53554 Adamqs
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/580225 Startrick

Checks profile "star platinum with EZ&FL What the fuck LOL jesus christ dude
Those FLHD FC https://osu.ppy.sh/s/114987 artcore jinja [Lunatic]

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/33323 [taka] This one by azuraer is nice imo

The biggest problem with placing FL scores in order is that playing long FL songs and playing FL at high bpm are very different. A great HD+FL score is memorizing more, but playing FL fast requires lots of focus and you have to recollect your memories a lot faster, and at times it can be like playing invisible, it requires more muscle memory as well. I can only give a rough estimate of where I would place them based on what I know, but I will try to explain my reasoning for each one.

rrtyui - Neuronecia (FL): It's a very tricky new-age style map, that most people can't play well without FL. Long and has a high combo. The sliders make it more disorienting and require more focus since the view area is smaller while on sliders, giving it a much faster feel. On the other hand, he didn't use HD so he isn't hitting invisible, which makes it a bit less disorienting on some parts, but a lot of times he's jumping into the abyss without being able to react anyway. Definitely a very hard map to flashlight, but some of it is because of the tricky mapping style not many people can play well. Overall, it is one the best FL plays, just not in every department.

Ekoro - Calamity Fortune (HD+FL): AR9 is slightly on the low side for this map, and when paired with HD, you're going to get quite a few invisible notes. The streams for the first 3/4ths in the map aren't too bad though since they're readable, making the stream section in the middle really easy. Toward the end, however, they're more spaced so Ekoro actually had to remember the path of the streams. Jumps aren't too big which makes muscle memory easier, but they're big enough to ne invisible with hidden.

Startrick - M@STERPIECE (DT+FL): Definitely one of the best FL scores, but I feel like it's unfair since it's Startrick's own map. I don't feel like adding hidden on this would have made a significant difference because there's a lot of large jumps that require you to jump into the abyss to hit, paired with a max combo of over 1300.

Mesita - Emotional Skyscraper ~ World's End (HD+FL): A 6 minute map with a little over 2000 combo, and HD on top of it. Not only this, but the map has quite a few jumps. A lot of the jumps seem invisible/barely see-able. The speed of the map is pretty consistent, so the only thing giving you a break to focus is the longer streams and maybe triples pretty much. Even though this definitely isn't the most impressive FL play due to how sloppy it is, it may have taken more memorization than any other FL score for a full combo.

FGSky - JoJo Sono Chi no Kioku~end of THE WORLD~ (EZ+FL): I can't evaluate this properly because of the effect of EZ mod. It makes it look even more ridiculous, even though it was probably easier to do with the EZ mod. Unfortunately, I don't think this score can be listed since it's not a top 100 score.

Ekoro - Revolution Deathsquad (EZ+FL): Most players find EZ disorienting, but reading for FL is very different, and I believe for someone like Ekoro, actually made this FL play drastically easier with the circle size. However, it's over a massive 3,400 combo and almost 8 minutes long. It's pretty easy to find something that uses a consistent mapping style and same mapper to seem a bit repetitive for memorization as well, since it would be much easier to memorize if it was a collab or something and every section seemed like it had a different style. Most of it is actually (somewhat) readable streams, however, which is why it's not the most godly FL play of all time; the streamy section was probably the easiest part for FL. Since the streams are readable, it gives you much more time to remember what's next, as well. Definitely a high amount of memorization required, but don't be fooled by it's combo, I wouldn't put it above scores like Neuronecia, Gold Dust, etc. despite the massive combo difference. I'm putting this here to try and explain why this score shouldn't be off-the-charts, though it should still be pretty high up there for sure.

Mesita - Gold Dust (HD+FL): I honestly always thought this score was sketchy because of how perfectly Mesita plays it, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Can barely see any notes since it's so jumpy. Creative jump patterns make it easier to remember (not that this should factor into your score calculation).

Dungeon - World End (DT+FL): Don't let the low combo and lack of HD fool you, this is one of the best FL plays out there, due to the speed of the map. At this speed, I don't think HD would have made much of a difference.

Lybydose - Dance Dance Revolution NON STOP MEGAMIX (FL):

thregium - paraparaMAX I (FL): ...I guess it's possible since most of the notes are pretty close together...

takeki3gou - Symphonic Love (HD+DT+FL): Pretty fast map, making it intense with FL. One of the best FL scores because of the accuracy, but mostly because he memorized it to the point of being able to focus on accuracy. I'm pretty sure it was so ingrained in his muscle memory, he could play through the map without looking at the screen.

Bikko - JUMPER (HD+HR+FL):

NerO - Hoshizora no Ima (HD+FL):

ExGon - U.N. Owen Was Her? (HD+FL):

Mesita - masterpiece (HD+FL): I thought he would be hitting invisible a lot in this play since it was AR8 with HD. There was quite a bit of invisible jumps, but fortunately for Mesita most of the jumps were too small to have invisible notes, and the hardest part of squares loops each square twice so you can see them with hidden. The map is creative which probably helped the memorization process. A great FL play, just not as great as you'd imagine it to be.

Mesita - Kiss Shite Agenai (DT+FL): Pretty much exactly what I said for Dungeon's World End score, but not quite as good.

-GN - Shoreline (HD+DT+FL):

Rucker - Justice to Believe (DT+FL):

-GN - Suklaapallit (HD+HR+DT+FL):

Startrick - Be My Friend (HD+DT+FL):

KeigoClear - Ascension to Heaven (HD+HR+FL):


Other notable FL plays:

those - artcore JINJA (HD+FL):

takeki3gou - Piste SMILE Non-stop!! (HD+HR+FL):

Ekoro/ExGon/FGSky - Granat (HD+FL):

CheEZ - Heartbreaker (HD+DT+FL): I wanted to include this score because it's a prime example of when FL and HD turns an easy map into a very hard one; so many invisible notes in this FL score.

BinJip - My Sweet Lady (Short Ver.) (HD+DT+FL):

cptnXn - Mezame (FL):

Incomplete, got lazy and tired will fix it later

^^^^
I'm still waiting.

Thanks for your help guys!
I think I'll release something soon.

If anyone interested:
Apparently the most difficult achieved score turns out to be https://osu.ppy.sh/b/78239 by Mesita
Which is really insane if you ask me

Rilene wrote:

^^^^
I'm still waiting.

Sorry, I didn't think anyone cared lol, I'll finish it later

Kert wrote:

If anyone interested:
Apparently the most difficult achieved score turns out to be https://osu.ppy.sh/b/78239 by Mesita
Which is really insane if you ask me

Wow, why have I never seen this score before

Jesus that's insane

Kert wrote:

Apparently the most difficult achieved score turns out to be https://osu.ppy.sh/b/78239 by Mesita
Which is really insane if you ask me

NixXSkate wrote:

Wow, why have I never seen this score before

Jesus that's insane

Since I seem to be missing something, could one of you explain what's so special about that play and why is it the most difficult achieved FL score? Just to be clear - I'm not saying it's not impressive, but... "the most difficult achieved score"?!

Gigo wrote:

Kert wrote:

Apparently the most difficult achieved score turns out to be https://osu.ppy.sh/b/78239 by Mesita
Which is really insane if you ask me

NixXSkate wrote:

Wow, why have I never seen this score before

Jesus that's insane

Since I seem to be missing something, could one of you explain what's so special about that play and why is it the most difficult achieved FL score?

It's not the most difficult achieved FL score, it's the score that involved most memorization.(seems to be legit when looking at the jumps and NC behaviour and length)

Uhmm... doesn't Mesita's score on Emotional Skyscraper require more memorization? I mean, it's almost 1000 more combo.

As far as I can see Emotional Skyscraper is a lot more convenient in terms of followpoints, SV and NC-behaviour.
In terms of spacing you can oftentimes still see the next 1/2 jump on the playfield without followpoints which gives a lot of room for "sightreading" in some parts.
I don't think it's considered to be worth much less than the play on Kegare Naki Yume.
After all both plays are completely beyond me.

Disregard that map being first one, after fixing bugs it's still very high, but another very hard result wins : D
The discussion is still helpful though

Gigo wrote:

Uhmm... doesn't Mesita's score on Emotional Skyscraper require more memorization? I mean, it's almost 1000 more combo.

Wow, according to the now implemented Memory skill, Emotional Skyscraper is indeed ranked higher than Kegare Naki Yume. Actually, I don't see a higher ranked FL score at all! Am I a prophet or what?

You're a wizard, Gigo.

nvm mittens very low memory xd

There's some problems with speed atm for flashlight, scores like Dungeon's World End score, FGSky's JoJo score, and takeki3gou's Symphonic Love score are ranked lower than a lot of normal difficulty scores. On my list there's quite a lot of normal scores ahead of my DT+FL scores on hards / easier insanes. (Not including the top score, which does deserve to be #1 on my list. There's undeserving normal scores above of that on other lists, however.) From what it appears, low speed spacing is valued more than high speed medium-sized jumps. Spaced jumps should be valued no doubt, but the speedier stuff needs some love.

Most likely the reason is observable approaches. You don't get the help of them when using HD, so the system expects that you can sightread this stuff instead of memorizing
Mittens doesn't get a lot of points exactly because of that
by no means it's easier than anything else to play with FL. you can compare (agility+memory) from one result with another if you want to and mittens will probably be higher

Kert wrote:

Most likely the reason is observable approaches. You don't get the help of them when using HD, so the system expects that you can sightread this stuff instead of memorizing
Mittens doesn't get a lot of points exactly because of that
by no means it's easier than anything else to play with FL. you can compare (agility+memory) from one result with another if you want to and mittens will probably be higher

You don't really have time to react on faster songs like Dungeon's World End score. Also, the fact that EnakoRin's score on Lemon Tree (not that I trust it) is less points than Bikko's score on it is really wrong. It's AR9 with hidden AND faster, whereas Bikko's is AR9.86 with hidden, slower, and slightly smaller circles. (I have lot's of respect for Bikko for doing that score with a touchscreen, but it's clear which is a more impressive flashlight score)

EnakoRin's score has less combo
I'll keep this reaction thing in mind but it's pretty questionable whether this should go into memorization or reaction-based skill

Kert wrote:

EnakoRin's score has less combo
I'll keep this reaction thing in mind but it's pretty questionable whether this should go into memorization or reaction-based skill

You can't react to it... it's not like the only difficulty of FL is where the notes are on the map. Playing a HD+DT+FL map requires way more memorization than a HD+FL on the same map because you have to memorize to the point of recalling significantly faster and with more focus in the moment.
This score is worth more than Dungeon's World End, near Mesita's Kiss Shite Agenai, more than takeki3gou's Symphonic Love, and only because it's an old normal with disconnected patterns you have plenty of time to move and adjust to (which should be rewarded, but obviously not above speedy FL scores). Fast FL scores are rare for a reason, Dungeon didn't take 1000+ plays on World End because it was a hard map, it was because how much harder FL made it. It's not like the notes were all bunched up next to each other like some 1/2 note stream. I can assure you from personal experience that HD probably wouldn't have made a significant difference for him either, but he simply just didn't want it any more disorienting.

Also that reaction time logic is wrong for EnakoRin's score because the lower AR makes the notes more often invisible for hitting in comparison to if you played it with HD+HR+FL (regularly).