more benefits than cons tbh, i only see like 5 fl players complaining and if more people cared then they would show more support...
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[invalid] Hidden sliders
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Baraatje123 wrote:
Yahweh, that suggestion is one I agree with
Not the other ones though
Peppy changed it, so just accept it
Everytime, when a new feature comes in, people disagree with it, cause they aren't used to it / something else
I for example also kinda hate the nee builds (Stable/Beta/CE) as opposed to fallback as those 3 all lag heavily in the editor
But will I make a new thread about the fact that it sucks, as it makes modding/mapping harder, to nigh impossible? No
Just deal with it, Peppy said more changes will come, so just accept it and adapt to it
My last 2 cents on this, and I'll stop posting in this thread
Unless Peppy wants me to, so he gets more support :3
I certainly hope you don't honestly feel that way, and I really hope Peppy doesn't. When something happens and it has genuine flaws (and I'm speaking about change in general not just this,) a large group of people find it detrimental, or it is just ugly then people can and should voice opinions, and they should at the very least be considered. I don't believe you actually live by that "the authority made a change theres nothing we can do surrender and lie down" attitude. Implying that people shouldn't make threads about legitimate greavances is ridiculous.
Also IDC about the new sliders very much, I don't play flashlight so it doesn't bother me when they disappear, but I do think it's ugly the way it's implimented and I think it could be done betta.
Maybe I'm not that much into HDFL compared to FL but I had my fun with it for a while and I don't see my performance on the map I practiced with it(3.5*, ~700 combo) being heavily affected.
I agree that it is affected but I don't feel like the difference is that huge as you can still see where the sliders start/end due to the fade being so slow and followpoints at start and end(if there aren't any you have to memorize anyway, right?)
I'm already glad that peppy gave me the sliderends on appearance back~
On the other hand the new HD eases reading EZHD(in my opinion at least) and I still can't see a riot of EZHD-players that have their scores beaten - sure, not the mod combination you farm #1 with but it's still something you take pride in due to its difficulty.
Giving FL the power to override the new fade-setting of HD is the only somewhat reasonable suggestion you made in my opinion as I feel like the new HD is a good thing for osu! outside of FL which makes the skinnable/HDv2/toggle nonsense.
I agree that it is affected but I don't feel like the difference is that huge as you can still see where the sliders start/end due to the fade being so slow and followpoints at start and end(if there aren't any you have to memorize anyway, right?)
I'm already glad that peppy gave me the sliderends on appearance back~
On the other hand the new HD eases reading EZHD(in my opinion at least) and I still can't see a riot of EZHD-players that have their scores beaten - sure, not the mod combination you farm #1 with but it's still something you take pride in due to its difficulty.
Giving FL the power to override the new fade-setting of HD is the only somewhat reasonable suggestion you made in my opinion as I feel like the new HD is a good thing for osu! outside of FL which makes the skinnable/HDv2/toggle nonsense.
That would mean that the mod isn't consistent throughout other mods, which could confuse new playersEndaris wrote:
Giving FL the power to override the new fade-setting of HD is the only somewhat reasonable suggestion you made in my opinion as I feel like the new HD is a good thing for osu! outside of FL which makes the skinnable/HDv2/toggle nonsense.
also toggles aren't valid requests
It's the most logical and fitting way to do this. 'Fading Sliders' toggleSulker wrote:
iirc didn't ppy said he was planning to make this toggle relate to the Snaking Sliders effect? I dunno
This change is not about visuals, it's about playability for HDFL players
I also agree that it became a lot harder ([Hard]-s FL player here)
blahpy wrote:
Have you considered just making it a skin option since such things as "visually more appropriate", "cool" and "ugly" are, of course, subjective?peppy wrote:
p.s. if you're going to continue this conversation, then please don't use the words "harder", "easier" or "difficulty". Instead use the words "visually more appropriate", "cool" or "ugly".
I personally like how hidden is now, it looks nicer and doesn't negatively impact my game play. But there should be an option to play with the original HD style.
Any maps which is slider heavy and it is reasonably fast was made significantly harder to read.
And it is overall more annoying to use hd now. I am not a fan.
Make it toggle-able pls.
And it is overall more annoying to use hd now. I am not a fan.
Make it toggle-able pls.
Here we go again >>__>>
THERE WAS THOUSANDS OF POSTS ABOUT IT THEY SAY NO.xasuma wrote:
Any maps which is slider heavy and it is reasonably fast was made significantly harder to read.
And it is overall more annoying to use hd now. I am not a fan.
Make it toggle-able pls.
did that make you clear ?
I can only agree to any of these changes listed above. For somebody who has been slowly but surely improving to get #1 on his favourite song, this adds an extra layer of difficulty when it comes to remembering which end of the slider to press, some maps are really fast and don't even give you time to see the slider before you have to press it, and this sometimes makes it confusing or hard to do it. I think my problem with this is that it's adding an extra piece of difficulty to an already hard mod combination. Sometimes it makes it easier when exclusively using Hidden with Hard Rock and/or Double Time/Nightcore, but when added with Flashlight it does make it quite difficult. While yes it is a visual improvement to the mod, that visual improvement puts people at a disadvantage than others. It was if you changed the double time speed increase to 1.3 instead of 1.25 but left all of the previous scores and the same multiplier there. While yes, that is a little more drastic, the same thing stands: newer players or people going towards a better score will now have a harder time doing it compared to those players that had it previously to the update.
Yes, it does make the game look prettier in the sense, yes it does make the game look a little better and hides EVERYTHING not just simple beats, but if you're going to add a feature that gives newer players a disadvantage (I don't care for the arguments that simply say "FL makes it a memory game so it's only a little more to remember", I shouldn't have to try harder for a high score just because I attempted for a higher score a little later) at least add an option to revert it or any of the other options allowed above.
To all the people defending this new update, let us make it so all the visual things you can toggle in the game (snaking sliders, screen fire, side-characters, video, beatmaps, beatmap skins, beatmap sounds) had to be used and you couldn't turn it off no matter what. How is that fair because those things add a layer of concentration to the game as you have to keep your focus while the screen is in flames, at every 50 combo you get a person popping out and the sliders appear out of nowhere... You would atest to it easily and would be disproving of it, so how is this really different apart from "well not ALL PCs can run those previously mentioned things"?
I rest my case, but if this is kept without even any way to turn it off, it's just going to anger people and people are going to constantly suggest it to be removed until it is done so
Yes, it does make the game look prettier in the sense, yes it does make the game look a little better and hides EVERYTHING not just simple beats, but if you're going to add a feature that gives newer players a disadvantage (I don't care for the arguments that simply say "FL makes it a memory game so it's only a little more to remember", I shouldn't have to try harder for a high score just because I attempted for a higher score a little later) at least add an option to revert it or any of the other options allowed above.
To all the people defending this new update, let us make it so all the visual things you can toggle in the game (snaking sliders, screen fire, side-characters, video, beatmaps, beatmap skins, beatmap sounds) had to be used and you couldn't turn it off no matter what. How is that fair because those things add a layer of concentration to the game as you have to keep your focus while the screen is in flames, at every 50 combo you get a person popping out and the sliders appear out of nowhere... You would atest to it easily and would be disproving of it, so how is this really different apart from "well not ALL PCs can run those previously mentioned things"?
I rest my case, but if this is kept without even any way to turn it off, it's just going to anger people and people are going to constantly suggest it to be removed until it is done so
So because the developers made an obviously bad choice seeing how there were THOUSANDS OF POSTS complaining about this new feature, and they said no, why in the WORLD should we stop if we disagree with an obvious flaw. This is exactly how online games grow stale because the developer decides to make a bad decision then they don't listen to that group of people affected by it, then those people drop out. Look at Runescape for example (I know, but it's the only online game I've had YEARS of experience with), they added a certain feature that stopped people from trading properly, leading to a large portion of the player base to quit because the developers refused to revert the change after many many requests for it to happen. It's kicking down the minority in a game similar to how society handles it. I don't see why in the world I, or anybody else, should stop making posts requesting it to be changed.Faustas156 wrote:
THERE WAS THOUSANDS OF POSTS ABOUT IT THEY SAY NO.
did that make you clear ?
What is this, Black and Blue vs. White and Gold all over again?
I love how Peppy said you shouldn't use the word harder, yet on every post it's like the most important argument
Especially since, without FL, new hidden is actually way easier.
It makes it harder. It's a simple fact and if peppy wants to ignore it, then that's his mistake.Baraatje123 wrote:
I love how Peppy said you shouldn't use the word harder, yet on every post it's like the most important argument
Anyway, this is literally the MAIN ARGUMENT for why we want this changed, so basically asking us not to argue the same point is stupid and defeats the whole point of this and almost any other thread about this being made. It's made it the same for me. Maybe a small bit easier but not as drastic as it has effected the HDFL combination.Mahogany wrote:
Especially since, without FL, new hidden is actually way easier.
Monkey_old_1
Ok, the new change is ugly and visually less appropriate. Is that subjective enough for you?peppy wrote:
Prepare yourselves for more changes. I am not interested in maintaining status quo just to keep people happy. Going forward we will be making more changes to mods and gameplay in general!
p.s. if you're going to continue this conversation, then please don't use the words "harder", "easier" or "difficulty". Instead use the words "visually more appropriate", "cool" or "ugly".
FTFYMonkey wrote:
Ok, the new change is cool and visually more appropriate. Is that subjective enough for you?
Ok I wouldn't usually reply to threads in this manner, but some of you are being outright dumb.
You might want to look into the meaning of the word "fact" before using it.
Other motives:
* Cleans up the codebase, makes things more centralized rather than having to draw them in a very specific way. Maybe improved performance slightly, but probably unnoticeable.
* It's the way HD should have worked originally.
Okay first of all, can you avoid commenting on mods if you have 5800 playcount? This not only goes for you, but for every other person in this thread complaining about the difficulty of HDFL. At your level this is not/should not be a competitive game, it is a fun game. Such a change does NOT affect your enjoyment of this game in any way. You're better off forgetting the old HD ever existed and keep trotting along.
Second of all, whether HD makes it harder or not is completely subjective. I haven't seen any high ranked players complain about the change and I encourage players in this thread to improve and actually play the game before discussing the difficulty of it. I assure you that your perspective will change as you reach a higher rank and your reading ability improves. Sorry but if you can't remember the slider pattern (which mind you is usually linear or arced) then you simply should not be playing HD.
Top players (hvick225, rafis, Cookiezi) perform just fine with HD, and you can too if you stopped blaming the change instead of your own inexperience.
As a final word: I am locking this thread, as I do not believe it to be of any value. HD will not be changed, a toggle will not be added, a skin option will not be added. In-fact I felt bad for dirtying the codebase in such a way when I put it back temporarily for the beginning of OWC.
Karuta- wrote:
the mere fact that peppy is breaking osu! into pieces, changing and putting it together after 8 years is a joke in itself
You might as well say that he discontinued osu! and started another game
You might want to look into the meaning of the word "fact" before using it.
Karuta- wrote:
Baraatje123 wrote:
Peppy changed it, so just accept it
Everytime, when a new feature comes in, people disagree with it, cause they aren't used to it / something else
I for example also kinda hate the nee builds (Stable/Beta/CE) as opposed to fallback as those 3 all lag heavily in the editor
Unless Peppy wants me to, so he gets more support :3
Yeah I agree that we should accept new "features" but changing the gameplay itself is more of a development sided kind of change
I can live with the new score system, I can live with osu! going full OpenGL
but tell me of all things why would you change how the mods behave now?
was there any kind of motive other than pp?
Other motives:
* Cleans up the codebase, makes things more centralized rather than having to draw them in a very specific way. Maybe improved performance slightly, but probably unnoticeable.
* It's the way HD should have worked originally.
TheDragonXD wrote:
Baraatje123 wrote:
I love how Peppy said you shouldn't use the word harder, yet on every post it's like the most important argument
It makes it harder. It's a simple fact and if peppy wants to ignore it, then that's his mistake.Mahogany wrote:
Especially since, without FL, new hidden is actually way easier.
It's made it the same for me. Maybe a small bit easier but not as drastic as it has effected the HDFL combination.
Okay first of all, can you avoid commenting on mods if you have 5800 playcount? This not only goes for you, but for every other person in this thread complaining about the difficulty of HDFL. At your level this is not/should not be a competitive game, it is a fun game. Such a change does NOT affect your enjoyment of this game in any way. You're better off forgetting the old HD ever existed and keep trotting along.
Second of all, whether HD makes it harder or not is completely subjective. I haven't seen any high ranked players complain about the change and I encourage players in this thread to improve and actually play the game before discussing the difficulty of it. I assure you that your perspective will change as you reach a higher rank and your reading ability improves. Sorry but if you can't remember the slider pattern (which mind you is usually linear or arced) then you simply should not be playing HD.
Top players (hvick225, rafis, Cookiezi) perform just fine with HD, and you can too if you stopped blaming the change instead of your own inexperience.
As a final word: I am locking this thread, as I do not believe it to be of any value. HD will not be changed, a toggle will not be added, a skin option will not be added. In-fact I felt bad for dirtying the codebase in such a way when I put it back temporarily for the beginning of OWC.