I actually believe that the multiplier should be at around 0.7-0.8x. Doing multiple multipliers for one mod is just a little too much, but wouldn't hurt to try. :/

dark_assassin16 wrote:

I actually believe that the multiplier should be at around 0.7-0.8x. Doing multiple multipliers for one mod is just a little too much, but wouldn't hurt to try. :/

Actually in reality multipliers should be the average difficulty ratio between the +Mod and -Mod. If the difficulty changes due to HP, so should the multiplier.

Meh. Failing from missing a circle and failing from not getting enough 300s are both fails. One of them means your aim or speed wasn't good enough. The other means your accuracy wasn't good enough. Isolating one of them for a mod seems wrong to me. It would fix weird edge cases like Mendes HR or the Happy30 spinner maps which is nice but overall it just reinforces the idea that accuracy isn't as important as other aspects of the game, which I don't like. And on top of that, if you miss something that leaves you with the tiniest sliver of health that drains away before you can hit the next note, this mod would prevent the fail, whereas if you miss something that just barely removes the last bit of your health, this mod would not prevent the fail. The separation between passive and active hp loss isn't as clear as it seems.

GhostFrog wrote:

And on top of that, if you miss something that leaves you with the tiniest sliver of health that drains away before you can hit the next note, this mod would prevent the fail, whereas if you miss something that just barely removes the last bit of your health, this mod would not prevent the fail. The separation between passive and active hp loss isn't as clear as it seems.

Thats why I suggested score multiplier based on HP.

That's nonsense.
You still get HP for 100s and don't lose HP for 50s.
Which means that misses(I consider sliders you were so late on that you get a 100/50+combobreak misses too) are the only way to actually lose Health.
Which means that unless you're missing half of the map's circles there's no chance to possibly fail that map.
Even if anyone ever cared enough for this, the score multiplier should be the same as for NF.

But in this case, it could be a training tool. This mod, if you like it, will drain HP from any 100s, 50s, and misses. Even if it's a circle 100. This could help improve timing and listening. Or it could be a mod that could improve streaming. :/

I don't see how this mod would be a better training tool for that than just playing nomod. If you want a mod for training accuracy or streaming (new version of target practice???) then you should request that instead.

This entire idea is just bad. If you can't pass a map, you can just use nofail. If you're concerned that you'd be losing too many points for nofail because you're failing on drain sections, focus on your accuracy for a while (and no, I really don't see how this request would help with that...) rather than looking for a new mod to help you.

Endaris wrote:

That's nonsense.
You still get HP for 100s and don't lose HP for 50s.
Which means that misses(I consider sliders you were so late on that you get a 100/50+combobreak misses too) are the only way to actually lose Health.
Which means that unless you're missing half of the map's circles there's no chance to possibly fail that map.
Even if anyone ever cared enough for this, the score multiplier should be the same as for NF.

exactly this. if it would be implemented, it should at most be the score multiplier of NF or maybe even an unranked mod just for practice :I

This mod would only apply for some maps where it has a small break where the Hp is just left there to drain. This mod only HELPS with those, rather than used as an advantage. This mod only applies if when the Hp is left falling from 45% and below. If the Hp is higher than 45%, then the Hp drop would be qualified as a fail. Or this could be an option during mapping that would cancel out any failing during that time period. I don't know. It's your call.

This sound incredibly specific and it is a problem that can be solved by modding those sections of the map properly as a nominator instead of making a mod for it.

doesn't sound useful

dark_assassin16 wrote:

Or this could be an option during mapping that would cancel out any failing during that time period.

Mappers can manually put in breaks so if there aren't any you have to assume that it's a behaviour intended by the mapper.
Drain is also relative to the note/combo-density of a map and brief pauses without giving the player an actual break will therefore lower the overall drain of the map making such spots very passable unless you mess up. But if you mess up there's no problem with you failing.

Endaris wrote:

dark_assassin16 wrote:

Or this could be an option during mapping that would cancel out any failing during that time period.

Mappers can manually put in breaks so if there aren't any you have to assume that it's a behaviour intended by the mapper.
Drain is also relative to the note/combo-density of a map and brief pauses without giving the player an actual break will therefore lower the overall drain of the map making such spots very passable unless you mess up. But if you mess up there's no problem with you failing.

*cough cough* Happy30 spinners *cough cough*

Baraatje123 wrote:

Endaris wrote:

Mappers can manually put in breaks so if there aren't any you have to assume that it's a behaviour intended by the mapper.
Drain is also relative to the note/combo-density of a map and brief pauses without giving the player an actual break will therefore lower the overall drain of the map making such spots very passable unless you mess up. But if you mess up there's no problem with you failing.

*cough cough* Happy30 spinners *cough cough*

Exactly Or some maps that have a really high BPM with a high AR. This passive HP drain can cause high level players to fail if they play a map with, I don't know, HR + DT? I still keep my case.

You've made no case at all for why you should have the option to use this instead of using nofail. And everything you just said is pretty much nonsense.

it's so players who can't land 300's dont fail
nofail is only for people who cant aim amiright

Lather, riince, repeat.

NoFail - Aim practice, used to improve performance
This - Less multiplier reduction, make maps that has a high CS passable, and makes it possible to score high without certain maps failing you from passive HP drain

I'm not sure you're really understanding the implications of this mod and you keep changing what you think this mod would be good for. You've claimed it would help with accuracy and timing as if the way to improve accuracy and timing is to give people the option to not lose as many points while getting 50s on every note in a drain section. You've claimed it would be good streaming practice...can you even fail during a stream without missing any notes? Even with nothing but 50s the map would need pretty high drain, I'd imagine. You've claimed it would be a good mod for high bpm and high AR and I don't know what you meant by that at all. High bpm makes it harder to get non-300s if you can play the map and if you can't you'll be getting tons of misses anyway...and high AR makes a map easier unless you can't read it, in which case you are again getting tons of misses. Now you claim it's good for maps with high cs, which is pretty much absurd. If the circles on a map are too small for you, you're going to miss them and this mod wouldn't save you.

If you're incapable of passing a map, that's what nofail is made for. That covers any and all reasons you can't pass a map, whether it's because the cs is too high, whether it's because the map is too fast, whether it's because you can't read it, whether it's because your accuracy isn't good enough to make it through the drain sections, etc. The penalty for not being able to pass for any reason at all is 50% of your combo multiplier. This mod would cover only the case in which your accuracy wasn't good enough (or cases in which you missed enough notes to be left with a tiny tiny sliver of health that drains away before hitting the next note, in which case I don't know how you would even begin to justify having less of a penalty than nofail). Adding this in with a lower penalty than nofail would be to say that accuracy is unimportant and that's just silly because osu! is a rhythm game....or at least I hope we can agree that it's enough of a rhythm game to put accuracy on an even footing with aim or how fast you can move your fingers.

The one thing I think this mod would be okay for (and I've mentioned it already in this thread) is spinners like in Mendes+HR or in happy30 maps. This is because I personally do not believe spinners to be an important part of osu!. They're hit objects that map usually over arbitrary collections of sounds and that you hit with no particular sense of timing or rhythm. Having them be the barrier to passing certain maps seems kinda silly to me. This mod is definitely not the best solution to that problem though. a change in how drain and hp gain work during spinners to lower their potential to cause fails would be nice...

Sorry. I mixed up CS with HP. But still, this mod could be used to reduce difficulty on high HP maps. Or maybe maps with very long streams. You can trip in the middle of the stream and you have to restart all over again, which makes it difficult for you if you can't pass that specific part. Plus, using No-Fail just for one specific part and have your multiplier halved so that you could pass that one part, it just seems a little ridiculous.


PS: I change the ideas because sometimes I think of ideas of that item(s) and it just seems to beat the previous reason.

Cool I definetly want to see this in the future

dark_assassin16 wrote:

But still, this mod could be used to reduce difficulty on high HP maps.

Improve your accuracy or play easier maps.

Or maybe maps with very long streams. You can trip in the middle of the stream and you have to restart all over again, which makes it difficult for you if you can't pass that specific part.

Failing without missing when every note in the stream gives you back a bit of health? I don't think so. If you're somehow getting all 50s for an entire deathstream and failing because of it, improve your accuracy.

Plus, using No-Fail just for one specific part and have your multiplier halved so that you could pass that one part, it just seems a little ridiculous.

No, it doesn't seem ridiculous at all. If you can't pass the subjectively hardest part of the map, why reward you for being able to pass all of the easier parts? And if the hardest part of the map for you to pass is one in which you aren't missing notes, improve your accuracy.



You see the common theme here? Improve your accuracy instead of complaining about how many points you're losing out on by draining out.

I admit, you do give a good point. But the main thing this mod supports is the HP drain difficulty. This only applies to people who wants to try a bigger challenge, give them a nicer feel of what higher ranked people play daily.

Ok.. Maybe a static HP bar?
only can lose HP by hitting 100, 50 or miss without HP gain?
I don't get it .-.