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4k Players can't gain PP. So here is my solution for this.

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Ayaya
I mainly play 4k but still can play 7k, who cares about 4k pp, just play for fun :P
Kamikaze
Hanatan now you're one of those pepole who think they're revolutionary with their ideas about star rating and things. Let me tell you this: apart from Shoegazer's post, everyone in this community has said something about star rating being bad for the past 1,5 year. We have argued about and presented thousands of diffrent solution throughut the time. You need to realize that everything you said, has been said numerous times and means absolutely nothing because we aren't getting any changes soon (source: https://m.ask.fm/Tom94/answers/133131856078).
Bobbias
Last 1.5 years? I'll have you know it's been bad since day 1. It was completely and utterly broken before, and all they did was tweak it so it gave reasonable numbers now, if still wildly inaccurate at times.
Tidek

Squishykorean wrote:

Learn 7k, problem solved.
you can't be in top rank without 4k either
Actually, you can be easily in top rank without playing a single 4k map.


As people said here, 4k maps are getting sometimes massively underrated, where 7k maps are getting sometimes massively overrated, thats why around 75% of maximum pp is from 7k.

DT wont change anything, just imagine ET players playing overrated 7k maps with DT, they will farm a lot more than 4k DT players.

And I agree with Shoegzaer, OD should affect pp.
lim38
Or don't care about rank like me and just take pleasure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hinpoppo
The only way I can feel justified in being competitive is not by ranking, but by getting better. Tbh I'd be happy if the ranking system was deleted, but being a MMORPG player, I like seeing my numbers go up, so.....

I think Dan ranking should be official, and not PP farming in a faulty system.
Bad Apple
It might sound stupid, but seperated rankings for 4k and 7k would be a great solution.
You would have 3 Tabs in your profile, one with your 4k pp (+rank), one with your 7k pp (+rank) and one with your total pp and rank, which would be the one you currently have.

Should be too much of an issue to code something like this either and would greatly enhance the ranking-experience for 4k only players like me

using that way, you would have a 4k #1 and a 7k #1 (and a combined one, obviously)
example, #1 in 4k would have a total of 7500pp, that way you know, that 7.5k is the maximum amount of pp you can get from 4k, as a result it feels better for 4k players with 6-6.5k pp.
Todestrieb

- Bad Apple - wrote:

It might sound stupid, but seperated rankings for 4k and 7k would be a great solution.
You would have 3 Tabs in your profile, one with your 4k pp (+rank), one with your 7k pp (+rank) and one with your total pp and rank, which would be the one you currently have.
And 5, 6, 8, 9 and (hopefully) 10K? It will just kill "anti-meta" keys.
Feerum

juankristal wrote:

The bully to 4k is so real...

Just dont play for rank man, rank doesnt mean anything. We dont really need a solution for that because noone cares about the rank in 4k.
I agree with Juan :3
What the Hell does Rank in Mania mean. Nothing in my Eyes just because all these Keymodes.
And i heard ppl who play just 4 Fun have.. more Fun, but thats a secret!

Also Apples solution wouldn't be that bad but it would be still have QQ and Haters overall

I don't really see a good solution for everone :/
But why don't learn other Keymodes? 5-9k can also be fun! And once you know how to play also the problem with the pp
Is solved!

So i say: Give the other Keymodes a try. And i don't mean play 3 songs and give up. You haven't learn 4K in just one Day so the other Keymodes need some time.
Try it, learn it! :3

But i also Agree with Tidek. 7K is hard overrated in my Eyes, but maybe i'm wrong because i don't really can play High 7K diffs :D

Waaah thats such a problem.. xd
Elementaires

Feerum wrote:

But i also Agree with Tidek. 7K is hard overrated in my Eyes, but maybe i'm wrong because i don't really can play High 7K diffs :D
Funny to read this because most 4K players dont want to learn 7K because or the spacebar ;^)
I dont think its overrated but 4K underrated, just take the example of the Imperishable night

The thread is pointless anyway
Bobbias

Elementaires wrote:

Feerum wrote:

But i also Agree with Tidek. 7K is hard overrated in my Eyes, but maybe i'm wrong because i don't really can play High 7K diffs :D
Funny to read this because most 4K players dont want to learn 7K because or the spacebar ;^)
I dont think its overrated but 4K underrated, just take the example of the Imperishable night

The thread is pointless anyway
There IS a difference between 4k and 7k in star rating, for example, a 10 star 7k map is still playable for top tier 7k players, but a 10 star 4k map is outright unplayable.

But yes, this thread is pointless because not only is a new star rating system in development, complaining on the forum has done absolutely nothing to fix the problems in mania.

The real issue is that while pretty much everyone is aware of the problems, nobody can agree on exactly how to fix them, and the staff are mostly unwilling to even listen to the community anyway.
Kamikaze

Bobbias wrote:

Last 1.5 years? I'll have you know it's been bad since day 1. It was completely and utterly broken before, and all they did was tweak it so it gave reasonable numbers now, if still wildly inaccurate at times.
Rough estimate of ppv2 lifespan, cba anyway
Cuppp
4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam

There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
Tidek

Cuppp wrote:

4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam

There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
What? If you are good at 4k here, you will be on the same level at 4k in stepmania, same in 7k here and LR2. Rank here doesnt matter because unfortunately its not seperated by keymodes.
Hinpoppo

Cuppp wrote:

4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam

There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
That's accurate :v
Bobbias

Tidek wrote:

Cuppp wrote:

4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam

There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
What? If you are good at 4k here, you will be on the same level at 4k in stepmania, same in 7k here and LR2. Rank here doesnt matter because unfortunately its not seperated by keymodes.
Except you won't be coddled by the ranking system where the majority of actually hard maps never get ranked.
Feerum
I don't know how O2Jam or LR2 is because i never play it.

But i have play for a while Stepmania and isn't Stepmania just like Osu!Mania with OD0? :/

Don't know but thats how it feels for me
akuma123
Osu!Mania (4k) is like Stepmania with judge 5.5 or maybe 6, and getting an AA on stepmania is like getting 900k (maybe a bit less) on Osu!Mania

Ohh, and the LNs stuff xD
Hinpoppo

akuma123 wrote:

Osu!Mania (4k) is like Stepmania with judge 5.5 or maybe 6, and getting an AA on stepmania is like getting 900k (maybe a bit less) on Osu!Mania

Ohh, and the LNs stuff xD
If you play for accuracy, sure.

But the judgement between the equivalents for 200, 100, 50 and a miss are MUCH MUCH tighter; the only thing that is easier is the Marvelous count. Getting a SDP in SM is MUCH easier than O!M, but an SDG on SM is much less forgiving than one on O!M, at least from the statistics I've seen.

Playing maps to clear them / get an A on them / Hard clear is much less forgiving on SM than O!M, and that is, I am willing to bet on, a fact. Get some statistical nut to confirm that or something please.
BilliumMoto
i love it when people think clearing maps is a thing in o!m or sm
feesh-
If only I wanted to get more pp by 4k, I would definitely say "let your dreams be dreams" because of the system, 7k is another way to gain more pp, and not to mention that 5 stars map usually gives 300+ pp which is already good enough for me. Well, I do admit I fight for ranking, nut after reaching top 1500, I felt it's meaningless to continue playing, but I chose to play for fun.

An advice, want to get higher rank? Go practice some 7k and get a fresh new start from 7k and it's like how you start on 4 key. :)
Topic Starter
-Hanatan
I totally agree with bad apple but i think the dev's are too busy to do a ranking system like that. I want to play for rank/pp, so i think starting to play 7k would be the best solution for now :?
bakadam

- Bad Apple - wrote:

It might sound stupid, but seperated rankings for 4k and 7k would be a great solution.
You would have 3 Tabs in your profile, one with your 4k pp (+rank), one with your 7k pp (+rank) and one with your total pp and rank, which would be the one you currently have.

Should be too much of an issue to code something like this either and would greatly enhance the ranking-experience for 4k only players like me

using that way, you would have a 4k #1 and a 7k #1 (and a combined one, obviously)
example, #1 in 4k would have a total of 7500pp, that way you know, that 7.5k is the maximum amount of pp you can get from 4k, as a result it feels better for 4k players with 6-6.5k pp.
:)
very nice idea i thnk
Kamikaze
To be considered the best mania player in the world you need to be proficient at all keymodes. That's what it should be like at least but we lack 5/6/8/9k maps. So until we get more pp maps in those keymodes 7k will be biased. Doing key specific rankings is a good idea, but it should be a secondary ranking (all keymode ranking should still be the main one) and will not happen because that would take too much time imho. Maybe someone could code a third-party site that can calculate those.
bakadam

-Kamikaze- wrote:

To be considered the best mania player in the world you need to be proficient at all keymodes. That's what it should be like at least but we lack 5/6/8/9k maps. So until we get more pp maps in those keymodes 7k will be biased. Doing key specific rankings is a good idea, but it should be a secondary ranking (all keymode ranking should still be the main one) and will not happen because that would take too much time imho. Maybe someone could code a third-party site that can calculate those.

rank 1 mania player is not best at 4k in the world .... he's best at just 7k. learning 7k is enough to reach rank 1 at mania ;)
Evening

bakadam wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

To be considered the best mania player in the world you need to be proficient at all keymodes. That's what it should be like at least but we lack 5/6/8/9k maps. So until we get more pp maps in those keymodes 7k will be biased. Doing key specific rankings is a good idea, but it should be a secondary ranking (all keymode ranking should still be the main one) and will not happen because that would take too much time imho. Maybe someone could code a third-party site that can calculate those.

rank 1 mania player is not best at 4k in the world .... he's best at just 7k. learning 7k is enough to reach rank 1 at mania ;)
To be considered the best mania player in the world
best mania player in the world
in the world
the world
world
worl
wo
_underjoy
The Star Rating system should look more at density per column as well as the length of the densest part, instead of just plain nps. Then 4k maps would be rated higher and give more pp.
Nuff said.
Hinpoppo

_underjoy wrote:

The Star Rating system should look more at density per column as well as the length of the densest part, instead of just plain nps. Then 4k maps would be rated higher and give more pp.
Nuff said.
ty sir
Sewing Machine(??)

BilliumMoto wrote:

i love it when people think clearing maps is a thing in o!m or sm
I can't clear half of Fullerene Shift on HP 4....
: (((((((((
How to mash like pro?
Bobbias

BilliumMoto wrote:

i love it when people think clearing maps is a thing in o!m or sm
I love when people think there's a right way to judge achievements.

If you cleared a song you couldn't in the past, that's an achievement, period. Just like beating a personal best is an achievement, or any other goal you might set for yourself.

The star rating system and PP system are never going to be perfect, ever. Even if 95% of the community agrees that it's good enough, someone out there will disagree.

If you play for PP, get used to having to farm songs that are worth more PP. when we finally have a large selection of extremely difficult maps, get used to farming whichever ones are easier to get PP on, because even if the system improves, there will always be maps that are easier for certain players to get good PP from compared to others of the same difficulty level.
[Crz]Player
here's the ultimate solution : delete osu and play other games
puxtu

[-] wrote:

here's the ultimate solution : delete osu and play other games
goddamn nigga

btw if you want pp, help me rank this shit https://osu.ppy.sh/s/342245
[Crz]Player
ppuxtu
Feerum

puxtu wrote:

[-] wrote:

here's the ultimate solution : delete osu and play other games
goddamn nigga

btw if you want pp, help me rank this shit https://osu.ppy.sh/s/342245
60
puxtu

Feerum wrote:

60
Lol modding queue is just for scrubs
Topic Starter
-Hanatan

[-] wrote:

here's the ultimate solution : delete osu and play other games
Best solution ever, i will try it later ty.
Feerum

puxtu wrote:

Feerum wrote:

60
Lol modding queue is just for scrubs
I don't think so
Chyo-Kun
I can't help but feel like this is only natural.

Four keys are naturally easier to keep track of rather than seven.. It requires more skill to begin with. Then you can argue that some 4k insanes are much faster and require more stamina than most 7k insanes that focus on more intricate patterns, but then it comes down to the song and how mappable it is. You can't just overmap a song in 4k and justify your mapping with "Welp, 4k needs harder mapz", that just doesn't work in most song cases.
I can map a beatmania song in both 4k and 7k and the 7k will be harder just for the fact that there are more keys to work with and more possibilites to create crazy patterns with a song that was MADE to be played on a rhythm game. If I try to make a 4k version that's even close to beeing as difficult, I would have many many problems doing so just because there are less keys to work with, leaving me only speed to rely on to higher the difficulty.

tl;dr: It's easier to map really hard 7k map without overmapping and hard to do so in 4k without a really good song, thus 7k giving more PP in general


P.S.: Good song = one that can be mapped in many different ways and has a lot of background melodies, to notice the difference compare a "standard" hip hop /rap hit song to a SDVX song and you'll get what I mean..
Soul Stealer

akuma123 wrote:

Stop playing for PP, that works too :)
lol I've COMPLETELY given up on PP and leveling up. I just play for the fun and the competitive spirit (and the streams)
Kamikaze
why pepole are still posting here
Bobbias
Chyo-Kun, you can always create dump charts for hard 4k. It's a shame they're so looked down upon compared to technical charts.
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