7k is bad
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4k Players can't gain PP. So here is my solution for this.
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Try ranking more hard 4k maps.
post of the yearGekido- wrote:
4k is bad
Learn 7k, problem solved.
you can't be in top rank without 4k either
you can't be in top rank without 4k either
man there is no 6+star map for 4 key. can you understund what he means?Pope Gadget wrote:
Try ranking more hard 4k maps.
Because people want to map for 7K.
Very few good mania mappers map for 4K consistently.
Learn 7k to gain pp.
Go back to 4K after you got the rank you want.
Very few good mania mappers map for 4K consistently.
Learn 7k to gain pp.
Go back to 4K after you got the rank you want.
Oh and btw, there's an unwritten rule in the community that unless there are special circumstances, you do not ask/request/tell anyone to map something just because you like/want it. If you want something ranked, go map it and then get that map ranked. Until then I would refrain from making pointless threads like this one.
Thanks for your idea -Hanatan.
As a 1K, 2K, 3K and 10K player I too am disappointed at the lack of hard ranked maps for my preferred keymodes.
As a 1K, 2K, 3K and 10K player I too am disappointed at the lack of hard ranked maps for my preferred keymodes.
I think if there is an 4k tournament there should be enough 4k maps to get top rank
The Point Does Not Existbakadam wrote:
I think if there is an 4k tournament there should be enough 4k maps to get top rank
The bully to 4k is so real...
Just dont play for rank man, rank doesnt mean anything. We dont really need a solution for that because noone cares about the rank in 4k.
Just dont play for rank man, rank doesnt mean anything. We dont really need a solution for that because noone cares about the rank in 4k.
Topic Starter
Wow, most of you just focused the rank harder maps section, but i also wrote there something about mods too. Please dont come and write here if you going to write "YOU go map higher star pp maps." Could you just try to think and write something about how can we solve this star rating and pp problem in 4k?
I make hard 4K maps - probably the most out of anyone aside from Fullerene-. Some of them are probably viable for rank but I don't want to rank them because they're shit.
Hard 4K maps that are enjoyable are just hard to come by because song choice and other things. I'd much rather have one or two difficult (as in as hard as AiAe) maps that are super enjoyable to play rather than twenty of them that are garbage. All of the hard maps (HAELEQUIN and harder) that are ranked range from okay to horrendous. People just enjoy creating charts of a reasonable difficulty far more than ones with X icons. I think it's reasonable because lighter layering creates more liberty and fluency compared to overlayered/overdone charts.
Most "hard" maps aren't even rated as high as they should because of the poorly done star rating system which emphasises so much more on max NPS more than anything else. By nature 7K maps will be generally overrated compared to 4K maps because of max NPS and chart structure overall. This is because they're using a difficulty system that encompasses all modes, where it should be a difficulty scale for separate keymodes. Even if there are hard 4K ranked maps (as in as hard as AiAe) they won't be anywhere as close to the star rating AiAe has because AiAe is insanely overrated (should be ~6.2-6.3).
Regarding mods, it takes some time. The idea of DT giving additional PP has been thrown around myriads of times and is taken into consideration for at least a year now. HR won't give any additional PP because at the moment the star rating system isn't affected by OD, which is dumb.
Hard 4K maps that are enjoyable are just hard to come by because song choice and other things. I'd much rather have one or two difficult (as in as hard as AiAe) maps that are super enjoyable to play rather than twenty of them that are garbage. All of the hard maps (HAELEQUIN and harder) that are ranked range from okay to horrendous. People just enjoy creating charts of a reasonable difficulty far more than ones with X icons. I think it's reasonable because lighter layering creates more liberty and fluency compared to overlayered/overdone charts.
Most "hard" maps aren't even rated as high as they should because of the poorly done star rating system which emphasises so much more on max NPS more than anything else. By nature 7K maps will be generally overrated compared to 4K maps because of max NPS and chart structure overall. This is because they're using a difficulty system that encompasses all modes, where it should be a difficulty scale for separate keymodes. Even if there are hard 4K ranked maps (as in as hard as AiAe) they won't be anywhere as close to the star rating AiAe has because AiAe is insanely overrated (should be ~6.2-6.3).
Regarding mods, it takes some time. The idea of DT giving additional PP has been thrown around myriads of times and is taken into consideration for at least a year now. HR won't give any additional PP because at the moment the star rating system isn't affected by OD, which is dumb.
I mainly play 4k but still can play 7k, who cares about 4k pp, just play for fun 
Hanatan now you're one of those pepole who think they're revolutionary with their ideas about star rating and things. Let me tell you this: apart from Shoegazer's post, everyone in this community has said something about star rating being bad for the past 1,5 year. We have argued about and presented thousands of diffrent solution throughut the time. You need to realize that everything you said, has been said numerous times and means absolutely nothing because we aren't getting any changes soon (source: https://m.ask.fm/Tom94/answers/133131856078).
Last 1.5 years? I'll have you know it's been bad since day 1. It was completely and utterly broken before, and all they did was tweak it so it gave reasonable numbers now, if still wildly inaccurate at times.
Actually, you can be easily in top rank without playing a single 4k map.Squishykorean wrote:
Learn 7k, problem solved.
you can't be in top rank without 4k either
As people said here, 4k maps are getting sometimes massively underrated, where 7k maps are getting sometimes massively overrated, thats why around 75% of maximum pp is from 7k.
DT wont change anything, just imagine ET players playing overrated 7k maps with DT, they will farm a lot more than 4k DT players.
And I agree with Shoegzaer, OD should affect pp.
Or don't care about rank like me and just take pleasure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The only way I can feel justified in being competitive is not by ranking, but by getting better. Tbh I'd be happy if the ranking system was deleted, but being a MMORPG player, I like seeing my numbers go up, so.....
I think Dan ranking should be official, and not PP farming in a faulty system.
I think Dan ranking should be official, and not PP farming in a faulty system.
It might sound stupid, but seperated rankings for 4k and 7k would be a great solution.
You would have 3 Tabs in your profile, one with your 4k pp (+rank), one with your 7k pp (+rank) and one with your total pp and rank, which would be the one you currently have.
Should be too much of an issue to code something like this either and would greatly enhance the ranking-experience for 4k only players like me
using that way, you would have a 4k #1 and a 7k #1 (and a combined one, obviously)
example, #1 in 4k would have a total of 7500pp, that way you know, that 7.5k is the maximum amount of pp you can get from 4k, as a result it feels better for 4k players with 6-6.5k pp.
You would have 3 Tabs in your profile, one with your 4k pp (+rank), one with your 7k pp (+rank) and one with your total pp and rank, which would be the one you currently have.
Should be too much of an issue to code something like this either and would greatly enhance the ranking-experience for 4k only players like me
using that way, you would have a 4k #1 and a 7k #1 (and a combined one, obviously)
example, #1 in 4k would have a total of 7500pp, that way you know, that 7.5k is the maximum amount of pp you can get from 4k, as a result it feels better for 4k players with 6-6.5k pp.
And 5, 6, 8, 9 and (hopefully) 10K? It will just kill "anti-meta" keys.- Bad Apple - wrote:
It might sound stupid, but seperated rankings for 4k and 7k would be a great solution.
You would have 3 Tabs in your profile, one with your 4k pp (+rank), one with your 7k pp (+rank) and one with your total pp and rank, which would be the one you currently have.
I agree with Juan :3juankristal wrote:
The bully to 4k is so real...
Just dont play for rank man, rank doesnt mean anything. We dont really need a solution for that because noone cares about the rank in 4k.
What the Hell does Rank in Mania mean. Nothing in my Eyes just because all these Keymodes.
And i heard ppl who play just 4 Fun have.. more Fun, but thats a secret!
Also Apples solution wouldn't be that bad but it would be still have QQ and Haters overall
I don't really see a good solution for everone :/
But why don't learn other Keymodes? 5-9k can also be fun! And once you know how to play also the problem with the pp
Is solved!
So i say: Give the other Keymodes a try. And i don't mean play 3 songs and give up. You haven't learn 4K in just one Day so the other Keymodes need some time.
Try it, learn it! :3
But i also Agree with Tidek. 7K is hard overrated in my Eyes, but maybe i'm wrong because i don't really can play High 7K diffs
Waaah thats such a problem.. xd
Funny to read this because most 4K players dont want to learn 7K because or the spacebar ;^)Feerum wrote:
But i also Agree with Tidek. 7K is hard overrated in my Eyes, but maybe i'm wrong because i don't really can play High 7K diffs
I dont think its overrated but 4K underrated, just take the example of the Imperishable night
The thread is pointless anyway
There IS a difference between 4k and 7k in star rating, for example, a 10 star 7k map is still playable for top tier 7k players, but a 10 star 4k map is outright unplayable.Elementaires wrote:
Funny to read this because most 4K players dont want to learn 7K because or the spacebar ;^)Feerum wrote:
But i also Agree with Tidek. 7K is hard overrated in my Eyes, but maybe i'm wrong because i don't really can play High 7K diffs
I dont think its overrated but 4K underrated, just take the example of the Imperishable night
The thread is pointless anyway
But yes, this thread is pointless because not only is a new star rating system in development, complaining on the forum has done absolutely nothing to fix the problems in mania.
The real issue is that while pretty much everyone is aware of the problems, nobody can agree on exactly how to fix them, and the staff are mostly unwilling to even listen to the community anyway.
Rough estimate of ppv2 lifespan, cba anywayBobbias wrote:
Last 1.5 years? I'll have you know it's been bad since day 1. It was completely and utterly broken before, and all they did was tweak it so it gave reasonable numbers now, if still wildly inaccurate at times.
4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam
There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam
There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
What? If you are good at 4k here, you will be on the same level at 4k in stepmania, same in 7k here and LR2. Rank here doesnt matter because unfortunately its not seperated by keymodes.Cuppp wrote:
4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam
There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
That's accurate :vCuppp wrote:
4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam
There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
Except you won't be coddled by the ranking system where the majority of actually hard maps never get ranked.Tidek wrote:
What? If you are good at 4k here, you will be on the same level at 4k in stepmania, same in 7k here and LR2. Rank here doesnt matter because unfortunately its not seperated by keymodes.Cuppp wrote:
4k? Play stepmania
7k? Play lr2 or o2jam
There you can get a real sense of how shit you really are at rhythm games from playing osu and that rank doesn't matter.
I don't know how O2Jam or LR2 is because i never play it.
But i have play for a while Stepmania and isn't Stepmania just like Osu!Mania with OD0? :/
Don't know but thats how it feels for me
But i have play for a while Stepmania and isn't Stepmania just like Osu!Mania with OD0? :/
Don't know but thats how it feels for me
Osu!Mania (4k) is like Stepmania with judge 5.5 or maybe 6, and getting an AA on stepmania is like getting 900k (maybe a bit less) on Osu!Mania
Ohh, and the LNs stuff xD
Ohh, and the LNs stuff xD
If you play for accuracy, sure.akuma123 wrote:
Osu!Mania (4k) is like Stepmania with judge 5.5 or maybe 6, and getting an AA on stepmania is like getting 900k (maybe a bit less) on Osu!Mania
Ohh, and the LNs stuff xD
But the judgement between the equivalents for 200, 100, 50 and a miss are MUCH MUCH tighter; the only thing that is easier is the Marvelous count. Getting a SDP in SM is MUCH easier than O!M, but an SDG on SM is much less forgiving than one on O!M, at least from the statistics I've seen.
Playing maps to clear them / get an A on them / Hard clear is much less forgiving on SM than O!M, and that is, I am willing to bet on, a fact. Get some statistical nut to confirm that or something please.
i love it when people think clearing maps is a thing in o!m or sm
feesh-
If only I wanted to get more pp by 4k, I would definitely say "let your dreams be dreams" because of the system, 7k is another way to gain more pp, and not to mention that 5 stars map usually gives 300+ pp which is already good enough for me. Well, I do admit I fight for ranking, nut after reaching top 1500, I felt it's meaningless to continue playing, but I chose to play for fun.
An advice, want to get higher rank? Go practice some 7k and get a fresh new start from 7k and it's like how you start on 4 key.
An advice, want to get higher rank? Go practice some 7k and get a fresh new start from 7k and it's like how you start on 4 key.
Topic Starter
I totally agree with bad apple but i think the dev's are too busy to do a ranking system like that. I want to play for rank/pp, so i think starting to play 7k would be the best solution for now 
- Bad Apple - wrote:
It might sound stupid, but seperated rankings for 4k and 7k would be a great solution.
You would have 3 Tabs in your profile, one with your 4k pp (+rank), one with your 7k pp (+rank) and one with your total pp and rank, which would be the one you currently have.
Should be too much of an issue to code something like this either and would greatly enhance the ranking-experience for 4k only players like me
using that way, you would have a 4k #1 and a 7k #1 (and a combined one, obviously)
example, #1 in 4k would have a total of 7500pp, that way you know, that 7.5k is the maximum amount of pp you can get from 4k, as a result it feels better for 4k players with 6-6.5k pp.
very nice idea i thnk
To be considered the best mania player in the world you need to be proficient at all keymodes. That's what it should be like at least but we lack 5/6/8/9k maps. So until we get more pp maps in those keymodes 7k will be biased. Doing key specific rankings is a good idea, but it should be a secondary ranking (all keymode ranking should still be the main one) and will not happen because that would take too much time imho. Maybe someone could code a third-party site that can calculate those.