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Question for mouse users

posted
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29
Frikandel
200 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
Frikandel
I always feel like something is getting in the way of me properly aiming. The bigger and faster the jumps, the more apparent it is. I use 1000dpi which isn't even that low, but I feel like my sleave get's... stuck?... at the edge of my mousepad, and because of that it's so hard to jump normally. But if I play in a t-shirt to overcome the sleave problem, I feel like my whole arm is not sliding like it should be.

My god it's hard to explain what I mean in english.

Anyways, I feel like this is keeping me from playing well, and it is insanely frustrating because it feels like it's very unfair. Does anyone else experience this or something similair?
Bweh
486 posts
Joined September 2012
Bweh
Moved to G&R.
Vio
39 posts
Joined January 2015
Vio
A taller chair would probably help.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

SOLID771 wrote:

But if I play in a t-shirt to overcome the sleave problem, I feel like my whole arm is not sliding like it should be.
I don't like playing with sleeves at all, simply because I can't get used to the changes in friction. Arm -> Jersey. Jersey -> Pad... Two possible ways for your arm to slide.
Frikandel
200 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
Frikandel
Yeah. But what about playing without sleaves? I mean my arm still doesn't slide properly, and I end up needing more force to go to the left corner then I need to get to the right, for instance. So annoying.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
Try cleaning your mousepad or investing on one of these: http://www.smudgeguard.com
otoed1
639 posts
Joined May 2014
otoed1
You could learn to not rest your wrist/arm. kinda tiring tho. get a better mouse pad i guess.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

otoed1 wrote:

You could learn to not rest your wrist/arm. kinda tiring tho. get a better mouse pad i guess.
Recommended for 400 DPI players though.

SOLID771 wrote:

Yeah. But what about playing without sleaves? I mean my arm still doesn't slide properly, and I end up needing more force to go to the left corner then I need to get to the right, for instance. So annoying.
Are you sliding your arm all the time or only on the large jumps?

I slide my arm on the cross-screen jumps only. But because of that I do not snap to them. It becomes a flow-fest, although I manage to keep my angle-changes pretty clean. I mainly do this because of the excessive amount of drift caused during these jumps which requires me to reposition anyway. I play on 800 DPI at 1920x1080.
Emayecue
134 posts
Joined November 2014
Emayecue
I only play with a mouse, and to make it worse, I can only play with one button.

Whenever I tried to play with the keyboard, it just seems like I don't have the coordination necessary to be considered remotely mediocre.

The issues I face most of the time are actually physical pain in my arm. I can drag it out a bit by alternating, I'll do a map with my right hand, and the next one with my left, but I am usually burned out after a dozen of plays.

I also have some issues with spinners, and with maps that don't have pauses. I need those pauses to be able to reposition my mouse correctly, and the spinners throws me way off my comfort zone, so I try to aim at maps that gives me at least 2 pauses, and as little spinners as possible.

I realised that mouse players will be forever limited, and if you want to keep playing with it, you'll just have to stick with what you can get to. I don't believe I will ever play higher than 3 stars, and that's fine by me, I am still entertained doing so.

Perhaps I'm too old for this, but it doesn't matter, I enjoy it.
Xayne
240 posts
Joined August 2013
Xayne
I'm just going to assume you put more pressure on your mouse arm than I do. Try to focus more of your weight to your tapping arm to free up your mouse arm to glide more. I used to play on 600 dpi and never had any issues with moving my arm. Although I will say I refuse to play in long sleeves. It has to be skin against the mousepad.
Nadfee
119 posts
Joined May 2015
Nadfee
I use 1800 DPI, raw input and 0.7x with fullscreen 1920x1080.

You have to learn how to move your arm accordingly with your hand (if jumps require arm movement, which "I" need).
You shouldn't put any sort of force on your mouse and if you are using a palm grip, the wrist should easily be able to slide towards any direction without any pressured friction.

Just let the weight of your hand sit on top of your mouse and you should be good!
This only applies to palm grip though.

+++ - My Knowledge About Claw Grip - +++

I tend to put a little bit more tension on the wrist so I can freely move my fingers without having the wrist slide around (which would be mandatory for palm grip).
That's all the trick I've used on the mouse, really nothing that I applied by methods, more like just go with the flow and how it works naturally. ^^

EDIT: If you use a long sleeve then it would be a problem if the material of the long sleeve is something that does not slide well. Palm grip requires either a good coordination between the movement of you arm and hand or the flexibility of your wrists (left/right with wrist lock)
KanoSet
906 posts
Joined October 2014
KanoSet
maybe your mousepad is the reason
maybe your arm is a bit low - like setting on a low height chair-
maybe you tense your hand/arm more than you should
juat try adapt to playing w/o slesves for a while and you should adjust your hand posittion naturally with time
Frikandel
200 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
Frikandel
Alright. I will try to play without sleeves for a while to see how that goes.

If this problem persists however, I feel like I should stop playing. (QQ)
Because, ofcourse I play for fun, but I have to see some kind of improvement now and then to not feel like a total noob.


Anyways that's a rant for another time.
Qenomo
56 posts
Joined August 2013
Qenomo
Since ypu have a high sensitivity: try use the ball socket at the wrist (in line with the pinkie) as a pivot point to release the arm tension from the table. Give it a try for maybe half an hpur and see it if helps.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

Nadfee wrote:

I use 1800 DPI, raw input and 0.7x with fullscreen 1920x1080.

You have to learn how to move your arm accordingly with your hand (if jumps require arm movement, which "I" need).
You shouldn't put any sort of force on your mouse and if you are using a palm grip, the wrist should easily be able to slide towards any direction without any pressured friction.

Just let the weight of your hand sit on top of your mouse and you should be good!
This only applies to palm grip though.

+++ - My Knowledge About Claw Grip - +++

I tend to put a little bit more tension on the wrist so I can freely move my fingers without having the wrist slide around (which would be mandatory for palm grip).
That's all the trick I've used on the mouse, really nothing that I applied by methods, more like just go with the flow and how it works naturally. ^^

EDIT: If you use a long sleeve then it would be a problem if the material of the long sleeve is something that does not slide well. Palm grip requires either a good coordination between the movement of you arm and hand or the flexibility of your wrists (left/right with wrist lock)
Why do you use 1800 dpi when you use a DA 2013? The smoothing for that mouse gets ridiculously bad at 1600 dpi or higher.
Qenomo
56 posts
Joined August 2013
Qenomo

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Nadfee wrote:

I use 1800 DPI, raw input and 0.7x with fullscreen 1920x1080.

You have to learn how to move your arm accordingly with your hand (if jumps require arm movement, which "I" need).
You shouldn't put any sort of force on your mouse and if you are using a palm grip, the wrist should easily be able to slide towards any direction without any pressured friction.

Just let the weight of your hand sit on top of your mouse and you should be good!
This only applies to palm grip though.

+++ - My Knowledge About Claw Grip - +++

I tend to put a little bit more tension on the wrist so I can freely move my fingers without having the wrist slide around (which would be mandatory for palm grip).
That's all the trick I've used on the mouse, really nothing that I applied by methods, more like just go with the flow and how it works naturally. ^^

EDIT: If you use a long sleeve then it would be a problem if the material of the long sleeve is something that does not slide well. Palm grip requires either a good coordination between the movement of you arm and hand or the flexibility of your wrists (left/right with wrist lock)
Why do you use 1800 dpi when you use a DA 2013? The smoothing for that mouse gets ridiculously bad at 1600 dpi or higher.
1800 dpi is the native DPI of it I believe
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
No that is the DA 3G and 3.5G. DA 2013 aka DA 4G has native steps 50-6400 BUT it uses smoothing to compensate for jitter for dpis at 1600 or above. It can do 1600+ dpi but it does it terribly and with compromises.
KanoSet
906 posts
Joined October 2014
KanoSet

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

No that is the DA 3G and 3.5G. DA 2013 aka DA 4G has native steps 50-6400 BUT it uses smoothing to compensate for jitter for dpis at 1600 or above. It can do 1600+ dpi but it does it terribly and with compromises.
i was wondering about that yesterday.. gz for 3k+ posts
Nadfee
119 posts
Joined May 2015
Nadfee

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

No that is the DA 3G and 3.5G. DA 2013 aka DA 4G has native steps 50-6400 BUT it uses smoothing to compensate for jitter for dpis at 1600 or above. It can do 1600+ dpi but it does it terribly and with compromises.
This DA 2013 came with and is set to default 1800 dpi.
I never changed it since I got it. Whatever model mine might be, it is an 1800dpi native mouse.

EDIT: I have never noticed any "jitters" when I play. My actual DPI (after game modification) is 1260 dpi (1800 x 0.7) which I think is pretty standard if someone with 800 dpi uses 1.5x multiplier. I play a lot of CS:GO as well and there are absolutely no problems, all smooth.
(SFMC in EU (ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง)
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
CSGO's sensitivity before you notice pixel skipping is calculated depending on your resolution. At 800x600 you could use 5 without noticeable skipping. At 1920x1080 that number is like 2.6-2.7 cant recall off the top of my head. For osu you get pixel skipping if your sensitivity is above 1. Maybe you have a different DA. The blue led glossy ones are 1800 dpi native. The ones with rubber sidegrip only has non smoothed native dpi from 100-1550.
Also no one cares if you're SMFC. Come back when you're an ESEA invite player.
DynamicThrust
2 posts
Joined September 2014
DynamicThrust

SOLID771 wrote:

Anyways, I feel like this is keeping me from playing well, and it is insanely frustrating because it feels like it's very unfair. Does anyone else experience this or something similair?
I had a bad habit of using my palms to tighten up my sensitivity and let it rub against my mousepad. My primary solution to wearing long-sleeved shirts when playing osu was to unbutton them and roll them up.

I play on 400 DPI btw. Used to play 3600 DPI. The DPI isn't really that important; to be honest, high DPIs have an advantage because you don't have to fix the center of the mouse pad as drastically as 400 DPI.

But, I'm also getting better with one-deaging people in Gmod / CSS, so that's the price I pay for playing 400 DPI.

I'm just a 5,000 plays 4.5-5.25 star barely clearing scrub right now.

...I also play in a completely unhealthy way on the sofa with my mouse pad on a cookie sheet at a very awkward height and position, which my play could easily benefit from fixing that :(
Nadfee
119 posts
Joined May 2015
Nadfee

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

CSGO's sensitivity before you notice pixel skipping is calculated depending on your resolution. At 800x600 you could use 5 without noticeable skipping. At 1920x1080 that number is like 2.6-2.7 cant recall off the top of my head. For osu you get pixel skipping if your sensitivity is above 1. Maybe you have a different DA. The blue led glossy ones are 1800 dpi native. The ones with rubber sidegrip only has non smoothed native dpi from 100-1550.
Also no one cares if you're SMFC. Come back when you're an ESEA invite player.
Ah well. I think if you ever want to use a mouse, it's just best to not look into specifications and adapt to your mouse as it is. If a person has never noticed pixel skipping with his/her mouse, then there should be no point in changing. It seems like you go a lot into specifications and I can agree that pixel skipping is bothersome (I have some other old mouse models).

You can't just base off facts immediately and determine if a mouse or certain DPI/sensitivity is "low grade" just because it creates pixel skipping (from "facts").
This way of determining a quality of an item is very one-sided. The same thing goes for CS:GO players who might have had 2000 dpi and changed it to 800 dpi just because the "pro players" use it. It's like forcefully persuading people to modify their equipment just because its "proven to be BETTER".
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

Nadfee wrote:

... it's just best to not look into specifications and adapt to your mouse as it is. If a person has never noticed pixel skipping with his/her mouse, then there should be no point in changing...

You can't just base off facts immediately and determine if a mouse or certain DPI/sensitivity is "low grade" just because it creates pixel skipping (from "facts").
This way of determining a quality of an item is very one-sided...
It's all minute technical details, but that doesn't make it irrelevant. Until you actually buy the mouse, all you have to go on are other players' critique. Only once it's in your hands will you be able to tell if there's a problem.

I agree with you about adapting. If there is nothing wrong with your mouse, even if it's "supposed to be flawed", then great! Keep using it. You can get good apples and bad apples from the same bunch (of mice).

No doubt you are familiar with having to re-position your hand after a while playing osu!. Well... most of the time this drift is caused by your own hand movements. But if your mouse is drifting as well, then this just complicates the learning process and ability to finesse your muscle memory, especially if it's about minimising drift on longer beatmaps.

It's not impossible, but why deal with two problems at the same time? Sure, telling someone their mouse is faulty is very one-sided. Maybe the people who complain about the skipping just happened to get some bad apples. You don't know... but you already have the mouse and yours is the only one that matters.
LoGo
133 posts
Joined March 2011
LoGo
uhm... move your sleeve up? lol
At least that's what i do. (400 dpi here)
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

RaneFire wrote:

Nadfee wrote:

... it's just best to not look into specifications and adapt to your mouse as it is. If a person has never noticed pixel skipping with his/her mouse, then there should be no point in changing...

You can't just base off facts immediately and determine if a mouse or certain DPI/sensitivity is "low grade" just because it creates pixel skipping (from "facts").
This way of determining a quality of an item is very one-sided...
It's all minute technical details, but that doesn't make it irrelevant. Until you actually buy the mouse, all you have to go on are other players' critique. Only once it's in your hands will you be able to tell if there's a problem.

I agree with you about adapting. If there is nothing wrong with your mouse, even if it's "supposed to be flawed", then great! Keep using it. You can get good apples and bad apples from the same bunch (of mice).

No doubt you are familiar with having to re-position your hand after a while playing osu!. Well... most of the time this drift is caused by your own hand movements. But if your mouse is drifting as well, then this just complicates the learning process and ability to finesse your muscle memory, especially if it's about minimising drift on longer beatmaps.

It's not impossible, but why deal with two problems at the same time? Sure, telling someone their mouse is faulty is very one-sided. Maybe the people who complain about the skipping just happened to get some bad apples. You don't know... but you already have the mouse and yours is the only one that matters.
Many people on OCN has noted the DA 2013 has smoothing. Worse so at 1600dpi and above. This is was further made worse by Synapse and a firmware update of an unknown date. I also have this mouse but I do not use it for that very reason. The sensor just feels unresponsive and crappy.
kelemenopy
6 posts
Joined September 2015
kelemenopy
Only started playing recently but I play mouse only with palm grip and have similar problem to you. At home my setup is on my dresser as I don't have a real computer desk. This causes my arm to be angled upwards from the elbow instead of downward like it should be and that's why my arm gets stuck on the dresser or mousepad sometimes. At work where the computers are much lower I can see that this situation would not happen. So buy a higher chair or a lower desk. For me, until I save up the money I try to use my whole arm while playing instead of just my wrist and that reduces the sticking. Also every little break in the music I spin the cursor with my whole arm to unstick.

*after posting this I realized at work it only seems much lower because the only time I use the computers at work I am standing. Maybe try playing a few songs while standing to see if this is the same problem as me.
neatoneet
16 posts
Joined August 2011
neatoneet
You can also put some folded blankets or pillows under your ass to sit higher. Some centimeters don't seem a lot, but they are.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

neatoneet wrote:

You can also put some folded blankets or pillows under your ass to sit higher. Some centimeters don't seem a lot, but they are.
But you risk cutting off circulation to your legs and causing a blood clot or something.
neatoneet
16 posts
Joined August 2011
neatoneet
Lol OK! I never noticed my legs getting numb or anything but I also stand up every once in a while, move around and do some stretches (especially for fingers, wrists, arms - no CTS or nasty joint pain)
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