Xexxar wrote:
From a purely play perspective the high AR makes the map more difficult due to the excessively high and extremely difficult SV changes. With a lower AR the map would be a bit easier to read due to more time to react to the aforementioned SV changes.
This mapping style definitely would make you think at least AR9.5 but if you've played https://osu.ppy.sh/b/431717 it's true that AR9 works perfectly fine for it. Up for debate which is preferred - should be polled by capable players.Blue Dragon wrote:
I'm all for enforcing reading on lower ARs, but in this case, the faster AR makes the map more suitable for reading. Besides, there's a ridiculous amount of overlaps that are awfully ridiculous to play with any AR lower than 9.5 (and this comes from the guy who is always complaining about people not being able to read). This beatmap has niche styles of reading, which is why "classic" reading shouldn't be enforced here.
Xexxar wrote:
The style of the map is absolutely atrocious from modern standards. You can give me the whole "artistic" mumbo jumbo but ultimately when I look at this map I just see laziness and clunky design.
It's not subjective. Mapping is art only so long as you keep it within the confines of it being a game with regards to the audience. When you go full arthouse style that just doesn't belong to ranked (although I will concede in special cases like LeaF - Evanescent).Blue Dragon wrote:
That's completely subjective. I find the map very well-planed and the sliders are all there for a reason and it fits perfectly with the song. Don't give me the "I see laziness so that's how it is, my opinion is the right one and the mapper clearly doesn't know what they are doing" bullshit.
Xexxar wrote:
Literally how does this warrant any reason to being made this way? The pattern implies emphasis on the 1/4th blue tick due to how it it is awkwardly placed off stack, yet the music has the strong beat on the following slider, not the blue tick.
>an actual mod in this thread hoLY FUCK I thought I was dreaming. Looked through this entire thread and not a single mod was made by someone who was capable of playing EX EX (probably most of the Extras though this mapset isn't even worth the effort). How did this even get through? P.S. Dopamine is garbage and should never have been ranked either.Blue Dragon wrote:
It's not implying that the 1/4 blue tick is emphasized (and it actually is. there are different sections in the song that sound similar, yet there is no 1/4 there, so the 1/4 here is emphasized). It's pattern-based mapping that in this case makes the map easier to read (and come on, that pattern doesn't play any bad at all if you actually know how to play a beatmap like this. dopamine has much worse-looking stuff, and this isn't even a valid excuse to compare it to dopamine.. but you get my point)
Xexxar wrote:
I just don't see how styles like this can be approved while other mappers are rejected. As a mapper it's a slap in the face when perfectly normal quality beatmaps are rejected from countless BNs simply out of laziness and yet this extremely unorthodox mapping gets qualified.
Stop. Giving. This. Excuse. The majority of maps being ranked aren't good. To argue that because a map cannot be ranked because it wasn't good enough is a fallacy. It's incredibly dishonest of you to introduce Snow Rabbit into the conversation and argue against it (even though everyone would agree the maps are bad + I don't see Xexxar mentioning them anywhere) thus straw-manning.Blue Dragon wrote:
Stop. Giving. This. Excuse. These maps you mention are not ranked because they are simply of low quality or the mappers don't have enough will to get their maps modded. I say this as someone who really struggles to get their maps ranked because of lack of BN connections. The "why is this ranked while 'good' maps aren't?" excuse is completely meaningless. Rabbit Jumping maps aren't better than this. CRN maps aren't better than this. If you want to look at the game in an objective way (since you're trying to get this disqualified because you don't like the mapping style, as, in your opinion, it's "objectively worse") then you should have a good logic and actually not use that awful excuse.
Purely artistic mapping should not be rankable. It's not a place for a mapper to be completely self-indulgent. HW hasn't produced a single good map. It is unfair that a repeat offender gets to do whatever they want when they have been actively harming mapping for the last two(?) years.Blue Dragon wrote:
"I don't like artistic mapping and HW sucks because my opinion is objective. Why don't Rabbit Jumping maps get ranked while this does? Clearly unfair."
hOLY please, this is atleaat better than literally mapping My Hero! for the ppXexxar wrote:
Xexxar wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/374793
EX EX diff is questionable.
If you want my reasons for why:
From a purely play perspective the high AR makes the map more difficult due to the excessively high and extremely difficult SV changes. With a lower AR the map would be a bit easier to read due to more time to react to the aforementioned SV changes.
The style of the map is absolutely atrocious from modern standards. You can give me the whole "artistic" mumbo jumbo but ultimately when I look at this map I just see laziness and clunky design. Literally how does this warrant any reason to being made this way? The pattern implies emphasis on the 1/4th blue tick due to how it it is awkwardly placed off stack, yet the music has the strong beat on the following slider, not the blue tick.
I just don't see how styles like this can be approved while other mappers are rejected. As a mapper it's a slap in the face when perfectly normal quality beatmaps are rejected from countless BNs simply out of laziness and yet this extremely unorthodox mapping gets qualified.
Ugh god not you too. HW has made good maps, not in your opinion apparently. I don't see many maps (if any at all) at 2014 that could come close to Sentimental Skyscraper (HW Version, which is argubly the best one so far) and map like Genryuu Kaiko, which for some reason is the only map that few people can agree on is a good HW map, which is sad. And all the maps he made are very different from each other somehow, even though being the same genre/artists, so saying "repeat offender" is nothing but an insult.JappyBabes wrote:
Purely artistic mapping should not be rankable. It's not a place for a mapper to be completely self-indulgent. HW hasn't produced a single good map. It is unfair that a repeat offender gets to do whatever they want when they have been actively harming mapping for the last two(?) years.
Please, remain civil and keep the discussion on an appropriate level!Natsu wrote:
Stella's Hyper :
01:37:468 (4) - shouldn't the slider tail be snapped to 1/4 like the rest of diffs, also the music is suggesting that, personally I don't see how 1/16 makes sense here.
Enjoy's Standard:
01:41:387 (1,2) - spacing
Edit:
-kevincela-'s EX:
01:04:000 (1) - offscreen
02:01:663 (5) - same
02:01:587 (4) - almooooooooost
i can second this. ar is far too fast for this style of mapping imo (overlapping sliders ninjaaaa)Tatsumaki wrote:
unpopular opinion alert
aim/reading challenge maps should not immediately be shit on because "m-muh can't fc", that being said, I think AR should probably not be 10 for EX EX
Shizuku- wrote:
Ex Ex difficulty should not be lower than Ex tho.
Actually i believe it is okay because it is actually the hardest diff for me i could pass irre's easiely but couldn't pass ex ex so i dont know we shouldn't judge with only Star rating.Shizuku- wrote:
Ex Ex difficulty should not be lower than Ex tho.
Xexxar wrote:
As I've said before and I'll say again. The game is a game. Ultimately what is ranked doesn't matter as long as the community accepts and enjoys this map.
But, if this is allowed, STOP making double standards. A BN tells me that my justifications for my map are incorrect, yet I can reference other maps that do the same thing. I know the phrase is, "this is your map we're talking about, not someone else's", but if our standards are supposed to be consistent and fair for all mappers, then at some point there should be a line drawn of where a reference can be made to another map. It is absolutely unfair to allow for mapping of this level of unorthodoxy and ignore other mappers who are unique in their own way. If someone else makes a map of this exact same style, if this is ranked, they must be taken seriously and be allowed to rank their map as well.
My personal belief is that visual aesthetics are something that should be consistent across all ranked maps. What I mean by that, is that there should be less freedom on the artistic "style" of the map and standards should be more strictly enforced to create a more consistent game for all players. A "style" of all horizontal sliders does not capture the song. In no way does the map accentuate the song with this design, and therefore should stay unranked.
Am I saying that you shouldn't be allowed to express yourself? No, of course not. But I seriously believe that a level of consistency should be expected and REQUIRED for all mappers.
With that I ask, do you want more beatmaps to be like this?
From what I've seen, I completely agree with everything you say, except for the paragraph above. Increasingly unique styles should be allowed, and the mapper should be able to introduce their maps as art, but, there should be at least some degree of playability in the map that the majority of players should be able to play thoroughly (The ability to pass a certain 5.5 star map shouldn't be limited to top players). Different styles of mapping call for different playing strategics, which makes the game more intuitive.Xexxar wrote:
But, if this is allowed, STOP making double standards. A BN tells me that my justifications for my map are incorrect, yet I can reference other maps that do the same thing. I know the phrase is, "this is your map we're talking about, not someone else's", but if our standards are supposed to be consistent and fair for all mappers, then at some point there should be a line drawn of where a reference can be made to another map. It is absolutely unfair to allow for mapping of this level of unorthodoxy and ignore other mappers who are unique in their own way. If someone else makes a map of this exact same style, if this is ranked, they must be taken seriously and be allowed to rank their map as well.
Yes, I want.Xexxar wrote:
With that I ask, do you want more beatmaps to be like this?
Notice, I said a level of visual consistency. No where does it force you to map the same way. I'm stating that, the way maps should differ is in how they play, not in DISTINCT mapping styles that shock players with edgy styles that DO NOT serve to the gameplay. Most maps are already like it. There are very few "artsy" maps that are ranked that are not made by Hollow Wings. This is because the majority of mappers, in order to get their maps ranked HAVE to map to this already established common standard.KaedekaShizuru wrote:
Yes, I want.Xexxar wrote:
With that I ask, do you want more beatmaps to be like this?
Do you want to see everyone's every maps are all same in different songs ?
KaedekaShizuru wrote:
Yes, I want.Xexxar wrote:
With that I ask, do you want more beatmaps to be like this?
Do you want to see everyone's every maps are all same in different songs ?
Shizuku- wrote:
For me, it's a yes.Xexxar wrote:
With that I ask, do you want more beatmaps to be like this?
Remember, plz enjoy game
Plot twist: I love drama
agreedLance wrote:
As for the map, playability should always be paramount for a game. Just because a small amount of people can play it properly does not mean it's necessarily well made or good for mapping as a form.
JappyBabes wrote:
Purely artistic mapping should not be rankable. It's not a place for a mapper to be completely self-indulgent. HW hasn't produced a single good map. It is unfair that a repeat offender gets to do whatever they want when they have been actively harming mapping for the last two(?) years.
Xexxar wrote:
As I've said before and I'll say again. The game is a game. Ultimately what is ranked doesn't matter as long as the community accepts and enjoys this map.
But, if this is allowed, STOP making double standards. A BN tells me that my justifications for my map are incorrect, yet I can reference other maps that do the same thing. I know the phrase is, "this is your map we're talking about, not someone else's", but if our standards are supposed to be consistent and fair for all mappers, then at some point there should be a line drawn of where a reference can be made to another map. It is absolutely unfair to allow for mapping of this level of unorthodoxy and ignore other mappers who are unique in their own way. If someone else makes a map of this exact same style, if this is ranked, they must be taken seriously and be allowed to rank their map as well.
My personal belief is that visual aesthetics are something that should be consistent across all ranked maps. What I mean by that, is that there should be less freedom on the artistic "style" of the map and standards should be more strictly enforced to create a more consistent game for all players. A "style" of all horizontal sliders does not capture the song. In no way does the map accentuate the song with this design, and therefore should stay unranked.
Am I saying that you shouldn't be allowed to express yourself? No, of course not. But I seriously believe that a level of consistency should be expected and REQUIRED for all mappers.
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In what way does 100% horizontal sliders accentuate the song and service the gameplay in a way that adds to the song? (for that matter, in what way does grid snapping accentuate the song / map...)KaedekaShizuru wrote:
That's Hollow Wings' way, not yours, also not mine.
BUT remember, you have no right to say that do not serve to the gameplay.
PLEASE ENJOY MAPPING. Thanks a lot.
by strange cs nerfMinakami Yuki wrote:
and I remember it was the highest star-rating diff, how can it become lower?
Just because you're higher rank than me, it doesn't necessarily mean that you look upon the lower rankings that they cannot play it. I may be around 13K in rank but rank doesn't mean anything. Skill and Enjoyment does. If not for those, I may not be on this game anymore. And there are far better players that are lower ranked because they have high skill.-Kanzaki wrote:
Can i ask you guys the reason why you want i don't believe you guys can even play it?
I believe this is the thing i cant pass with nomod but hidden its interestingMinakami Yuki wrote:
Also, from my side, I think ar10 is a bit high for this diff, although it's cs3 and hard to read with those overlaps.
If it was ppv1 i would agree yea but so you say you can play it well and enjoying then is that the reason?Shizuku- wrote:
Just because you're higher rank than me, it doesn't necessarily mean that you look upon the lower rankings that they cannot play it. I may be around 13K in rank but rank doesn't mean anything. Skill and Enjoyment does. If not for those, I may not be on this game anymore. And there are far better players that are lower ranked because they have high skill.-Kanzaki wrote:
Can i ask you guys the reason why you want i don't believe you guys can even play it?
TL;DR: Skill≠Rank
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173,229,115860,6,0,P|94:212|69:226,1,109.999990463257,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
19,320,116463,2,0,P|98:337|123:323,1,109.999990463257,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
229,310,117066,1,2,0:0:0:0:
328,356,117367,2,0,P|340:299|345:229,1,109.999990463257,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
307,207,117819,2,0,L|296:121,1,54.9999952316285,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
260,49,118272,6,0,L|136:43,1,109.999990463257,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
67,117,118875,2,0,P|80:179|77:235,1,109.999990463257,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
171,285,119478,2,0,P|169:230|182:176,2,109.999990463257,2|8|2,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
265,342,120382,2,0,L|337:325,1,54.9999952316285,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
371,345,120684,6,0,P|377:293|379:224,1,109.999990463257,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
451,152,121287,2,0,P|403:129|336:135,1,109.999990463257,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
251,185,121890,2,0,L|74:198,1,164.999985694885,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
115,244,122493,2,0,L|23:250,2,82.4999928474427,8|8|8,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
140,294,123096,6,0,L|319:282,2,164.999985694885,2|0|0,0:1|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
208,207,124302,2,0,L|387:195,2,164.999985694885,0|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
276,120,125508,2,0,L|455:108,2,164.999985694885,0|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
345,34,126714,2,0,L|524:22,2,164.999985694885,0|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
235,46,127920,6,0,L|70:34,2,164.999985694885,0|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
164,130,129126,2,0,L|0:118,2,164.999985694885,0|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
218,225,130332,2,0,L|53:213,2,164.999985694885,0|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
267,323,131538,2,0,L|102:311,2,164.999985694885,0|0|2,0:0|0:0|0:1,0:0:0:0:
373,294,132744,6,0,P|381:240|385:182,1,109.999990463257,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
299,115,133347,2,0,P|204:107|184:69,1,109.999990463257,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
109,38,133950,1,2,0:0:0:0:
47,129,134251,2,0,P|44:181|48:244,2,109.999990463257,0|2|2,0:0|0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
109,38,135156,6,0,L|231:29,1,109.999990463257,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
328,20,135759,2,0,P|372:57|411:113,1,109.999990463257,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
363,201,136362,1,2,0:0:0:0:
462,248,136664,1,0,0:0:0:0:
376,316,136965,2,0,L|241:303,1,109.999990463257,2|2,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
178,371,137568,6,0,P|157:303|172:252,1,109.999990463257,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
259,210,138171,2,0,P|280:142|265:91,1,109.999990463257,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
186,35,138774,2,0,L|54:27,1,109.999990463257,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
11,117,139377,2,0,L|120:123,1,109.999990463257,2|2,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
175,218,139980,5,2,0:0:0:0:
75,264,140282,2,0,P|50:337|74:374,2,109.999990463257,0|2|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
175,218,141186,1,2,0:0:0:0:
234,310,141488,2,0,L|352:316,1,109.999990463257,0|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
442,364,142091,1,2,0:3:0:0:
498,269,142392,6,0,B|508:181|508:181|456:47,1,219.999980926514,6|10,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
399,150,143297,1,0,0:0:0:0:
304,93,143598,2,0,P|249:94|174:116,1,109.999990463257
107,172,144201,2,0,L|99:302,1,109.999990463257,10|2,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
201,324,144804,5,2,0:0:0:0:
261,232,145106,2,0,P|316:188|388:173,2,109.999990463257,0|10|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
201,324,146010,2,0,L|317:333,1,109.999990463257,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
422,375,146613,1,10,0:0:0:0:
501,299,146915,1,2,0:3:0:0:
429,215,147216,6,0,L|436:104,1,109.999990463257,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
357,27,147819,2,0,L|230:42,1,109.999990463257,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
165,113,148422,2,0,P|115:71|113:26,2,109.999990463257,2|0|10,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
256,174,149327,1,2,0:3:0:0:
170,243,149628,6,0,L|41:221,1,109.999990463257,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
100,327,150231,2,0,L|208:345,1,109.999990463257,14|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
318,336,150834,2,0,P|427:251|355:93,1,329.999971389771,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
259,56,152040,6,0,L|95:76,1,164.999985694885,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
44,98,152643,2,0,L|34:210,1,109.999990463257,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
112,293,153246,1,2,0:0:0:0:
219,267,153548,2,0,P|324:252|356:271,2,109.999990463257,0|8|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
112,293,154452,6,0,L|128:122,1,164.999985694885,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
152,79,155055,2,0,L|277:87,1,109.999990463257,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
344,159,155659,2,0,L|436:144,2,82.4999928474427,2|0|2,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
289,167,156262,2,0,L|280:290,1,109.999990463257,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
196,347,156865,6,0,P|156:316|97:329,1,109.999990463257,2|0,0:0|2:0,0:0:0:0:
3,274,157468,2,0,L|14:46,1,219.999980926514,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
119,25,158372,2,0,L|114:143,1,109.999990463257,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
198,206,158975,2,0,L|282:193,1,54.9999952316285
306,184,159277,6,0,L|294:305,1,109.999990463257,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
405,301,159880,2,0,L|400:358,2,54.9999952316285,8|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
488,229,160483,2,0,L|478:110,1,109.999990463257,6|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
373,86,161086,2,0,L|377:24,2,54.9999952316285,2|8|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
309,175,161689,6,0,P|229:155|169:175,1,109.999990463257,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
130,242,162292,2,0,B|62:269|62:269|71:84,1,219.999980926514,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
126,28,163196,1,0,0:0:0:0:
230,62,163498,2,0,P|297:36|349:52,1,109.999990463257,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
430,93,164101,6,0,L|422:176,1,82.4999928474427,6|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
393,252,164553,2,0,L|406:349,2,82.4999928474427,2|8|8,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
297,305,165307,6,0,P|216:255|137:292,1,164.999985694885,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
114,312,165910,2,0,P|101:262|93:203,1,109.999990463257,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
149,120,166513,1,2,0:0:0:0:
242,176,166814,1,0,0:0:0:0:
305,85,167116,2,0,L|379:70,2,54.9999952316285,8|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
389,155,167719,2,0,L|463:140,2,54.9999952316285,2|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
322,242,168322,2,0,L|315:363,1,109.999990463257,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
206,334,168925,6,0,P|131:352|36:308,1,164.999985694885,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
15,279,169528,1,12,0:0:0:0:
95,204,169829,2,0,L|104:121,1,54.9999952316285,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
109,94,170131,2,0,B|164:120|164:120|213:109,1,109.999990463257,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
302,46,170734,1,0,0:0:0:0:
340,275,171337,6,0,L|504:255,1,164.999985694885,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
365,164,172241,2,0,L|201:184,1,164.999985694885,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
64,91,173146,2,0,L|183:76,1,109.999990463257,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
273,121,173749,6,0,L|257:297,1,164.999985694885,6|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
418,324,174653,2,0,L|403:159,1,164.999985694885,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
302,28,175558,2,0,L|212:20,2,54.9999952316285,2|2|8,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
306,138,176161,6,0,L|174:124,1,109.999990463257,6|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
141,123,176613,1,8,0:0:0:0:
20,235,177066,6,0,L|152:249,1,109.999990463257,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
185,250,177518,1,8,0:0:0:0:
348,272,177970,2,0,L|353:347,2,54.9999952316285,2|2|8,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
274,190,178573,6,0,L|453:166,1,164.999985694885,6|6,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
307,65,179478,2,0,L|143:86,1,164.999985694885,6|6,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
88,242,180382,1,6,0:0:0:0:
256,192,180458,12,0,181890,0:0:0:0:
I agree thisTatsumaki wrote:
EX EX:
- Please, PLEASE change AR to 9.5, 10 borders on unreadability, and i've checked 9.5 and it works really well. Doesn't make much sense for Irrelvis's EX to have an AR of 9.3 and a higher SR in that respect :/
