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I don't get it

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GoldenWolf

Khelly wrote:

And why is it mashing if you previously called mashing a high UR? This isn't a high UR - if it was shifted a few ms later everything would fall within the hit window. What if I mirrored the image and the hits were on the late edge? I'm not going to use your pejorative to describe it because it doesn't come from randomly flailing your keys like you seem to think it would.

I can change the od of a map and keep the same exact hit timing and suddenly you're calling things whack a mole or not when NOTHING ABOUT THE PLAY has changed. Do you actually have a reponse to that besides "hurr common sense", because that's doesn't address anything. It's you refusing to explain yourself.

If you want to see what actual mashing would be, look at the map Boozehound on lesjuh on DT and think about streaming through the long line of singles and doubles.
But what the fuck is there else to explain?? If you can't be accurate on a map, you're just mashing your way through without being able to read it properly. That really is simple as that.

I can fc remote control dt with relax, doesn't mean I'm nowhere near able to play it. I have done this kind of scores quite a few times, never considered them proper play at all, they were pure mash. I didn't spammed my way through it by constantly streaming, I was actually doing triples and streams, but didn't care about the timing, since it was way too fast for me, I just mashed and hoped for the best. Getting the FC doesn't mean shit when the accuracy is terrible like that. Even FC below 95% feel terrible.

Not mashing is like when you are able to read and be aware of every object, when you can read everything. Mashing comes when you either start clicking objects by automatism, or when you just don't care about the timing and just tap them and hope for the best. Having a low UR doesn't mean shit either if your accuracy is terrible, and the opposite is true as well. If you get a SS with <80UR then you are definitely not mashing it, when you get a SS with >120 UR you are mostly mashing it, but the OD is low enough to forgive you. When you get a FC <95% but with <100UR, then you can't read the map because the AR is too low for you, and you keep rushing all the time because of it. That's also mashing, since you are not able to control your fingers well enough to be accurate.

I'm always assuming an OD over 8, anything below that is totally irrelevant, and even OD8 is pushing it because it's super lenient.

I basically just repeated the one line sentence over 2 small paragraphs here to say the exact same thing, except since common sense is too hard to use I had to explain in details, when you could have understood that on your own if you thought about it harder than 2.34 seconds.
pandaBee

GoldenWolf wrote:

[1]Not mashing is like when you are able to read and be aware of every object

[2]Mashing comes when you either start clicking objects by automatism, or when you just don't care about the timing and just tap them and hope for the best.

[3]Having a low UR doesn't mean shit either if your accuracy is terrible

[4]when you get a SS with >120 UR you are mostly mashing it, but the OD is low enough to forgive you.
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Not always. It's most likely a case of bad offset either on your part or the map's part, doesn't necessarily mean you're mashing or that it's a bad play. I would find it harder to believe that someone could shitpass/mash through a map with a low UR and low accuracy with a good offset.
4) Not always. I wouldn't necessarily call this mashing either and it contradicts (1) in some cases (do I need to explain?). Just because the accuracy isn't fantastically great doesn't mean that the person is mashing.

I agree on your definitions for mashing but you start straying in 3) and 4) when you make this assumption that your accuracy has to be really, really good for it to be considered not mashing.
Yuudachi-kun
I don't think your fundamental assertion that not accurate is mashing is true, so I guess there's nowhere to go. That's hy you can't just "hurr use common sense", because we're assuming completely different things. My opinion is that of Jaze's.


there's also no reason to think low ur + acc is because the ar is too low for you and you're hittingit tooffast. your hits could just as easily be late and I douvt that's because of the ar.
GoldenWolf
3) I'm assuming the map is timed well, if it's not then it's an entirely different issue that shouldn't be relevant here

4) Let's say I get an SS on an Easy but with 200 UR because it's OD3, wouldn't you consider that mashing? Kind of an extreme example, another one would be an Insane/Extra with OD6 such as 8-bit princess or rog-unlimitation where you can SS the map with a terrible consistency/mashing on the streams simply because the OD is low enough to allow you to do that, it's much more noticeable at higher BPMs because the time between each circles is smaller, making the error window smaller. It still baffles me I'm able to get an SS on the latter when my consistency is complete trash at that speed, the hits keep going from early 300 to late 300 because I can't keep up, and mash my keys and hope I won't be too off.


I hit consistently late when the AR is too fast for me to react to, since I can't keep up. Happens on AR10+ for me.

Khelly wrote:

there's also no reason to think low ur + acc is because the ar is too low for you and you're hittingit tooffast. your hits could just as easily be late and I douvt that's because of the ar.
What? You barely read what I said. When you consistently hit too early through a map, it means two things; either the map is terribly timed, which again isn't relevant here, or the AR is too low because you're used to higher ones. In the latter case, it means a lack of reading skills and/or finger control. Why finger control? Because if you were playing a rhythm game, listening the song should be enough for you to hit on time (Again, assuming the map is timed well enough).
(It's a general "you", not actually you by the way.)

It's mainly a difference in standards, I find yours too low, you find mines too high.
pandaBee

GoldenWolf wrote:

3) I'm assuming the map is timed well, if it's not then it's an entirely different issue that shouldn't be relevant here

4) Let's say I get an SS on an Easy but with 200 UR because it's OD3, wouldn't you consider that mashing? Kind of an extreme example, another one would be an Insane/Extra with OD6 such as 8-bit princess or rog-unlimitation where you can SS the map with a terrible consistency/mashing on the streams simply because the OD is low enough to allow you to do that, it's much more noticeable at higher BPMs because the time between each circles is smaller, making the error window smaller. It still baffles me I'm able to get an SS on the latter when my consistency is complete trash at that speed, the hits keep going from early 300 to late 300 because I can't keep up, and mash my keys and hope I won't be too off.


I hit consistently late when the AR is too fast for me to react to, since I can't keep up. Happens on AR10+ for me.
3) I still wouldn't call that mashing, it seems to me that their nerves are wired really strangely, they're still hitting on time with the beat. For example, if you were to just listen to their hitsounds or if they were playing an instrument the sounds produced would sound pretty accurate and spot on.
I don't think I've ever heard of a person that could do this though, it would probably be harder for humans to hit consistently offbeat all the time to a soundtrack but still hit accurately than it would be to hit accurately to a well timed score. The discordance produced when the hitsounds don't line up with the music should throw a player off really bad so it's hard to believe they would be able to achieve a low UR in that state. Either their brain is just hardwired to process that delay or they're doing it on purpose.

4) I wouldn't necessarily consider that mashing, though for the examples you provided it would be considered mashing, but you have to realize that they're not inclusive and one does not necessarily imply the other. You can still get a high UR while being able to perceive and reasonably respond to notes on a map. Not mashing =/= high accuracy (if it were to be high od) and low UR - that's just being a accurate player. If you're a accurate player then by definition you shouldn't be mashing, but just because you're not accurate on a map doesn't mean you're mashing.

What you describe here would be considered mashing if you weren't perceiving the notes and reacting to them properly, which it sounds like you aren't, but it doesn't mean that this is the case for everyone that hits a lower accuracy than the standard that is accepted to be good by the community. For example, when I was learning how to stream I played a lot of low bpm stream maps, I could perceive and react to every circle, but getting them to hit consistently with equal timing between each note was the hard part. I wouldn't consider that mashing.
Mahogany

chainpullz wrote:

Mahogany wrote:

Relax is fake aim though

If you get 0 UR with relax on the streams THEN your aim is fine.
This isn't true at all. If you SS on relax even with non-zero UR and you can't SS without relax then it's because your tapping isn't synced properly with your aim.
You what

If you don't get 0 UR on a stream with relax then it means you basically missed a circle because -playing without relax- you would likely have tapped while your cursor was off the circle resulting in either the rest of the stream being 100s or you missing entirely or dying.

I don't see what isn't true about that

There is a very small margin for error on aiming spaced streams before you just instafail.
otoed1
Hey guys. Mashing is when you don't know wth you're doing and you're just pushing buttons hoping your going to do well. Having poor acc is just being bad at the game, but having an understanding of when you should actually be pushing buttons.
ZenithPhantasm
play more
I Give Up
mashing is acc below 100% :lol:
chainpullz

Mahogany wrote:

You what

If you don't get 0 UR on a stream with relax then it means you basically missed a circle because -playing without relax- you would likely have tapped while your cursor was off the circle resulting in either the rest of the stream being 100s or you missing entirely or dying.

I don't see what isn't true about that

There is a very small margin for error on aiming spaced streams before you just instafail.
If I consistently tap streams -5ms on my left finger and +5ms on my right finger I can have non-zero UR but still SS the stream. Likewise I can have non-zero aim UR and SS the stream. Your assumption that 0 UR aim is required is based on the assumption that your tapping is perfect which is never the case.
pandaBee
lolwakarimasen
Mahogany

chainpullz wrote:

Mahogany wrote:

You what

If you don't get 0 UR on a stream with relax then it means you basically missed a circle because -playing without relax- you would likely have tapped while your cursor was off the circle resulting in either the rest of the stream being 100s or you missing entirely or dying.

I don't see what isn't true about that

There is a very small margin for error on aiming spaced streams before you just instafail.
If I consistently tap streams -5ms on my left finger and +5ms on my right finger I can have non-zero UR but still SS the stream. Likewise I can have non-zero aim UR and SS the stream. Your assumption that 0 UR aim is required is based on the assumption that your tapping is perfect which is never the case.
But it's a lot easier to have functionally perfect aim on most streams than it is to have perfect tapping, and it's a lot easier to just aim well and not have to think about when to hit the notes.

All I'm gathering from your post is that you're saying that non-zero aim UR is workable because you can just hit the notes off-time to compensate for having poor aim? I can't agree with that.

It's not required, but very unlikely for you to be hitting a stream if you don't get 0 UR with relax, because you're very likely to miss a note at some point if you're not properly on point because you might tap, say, 1ms before your cursor is actually over the circle.
chainpullz

Mahogany wrote:

But it's a lot easier to have functionally perfect aim on most streams than it is to have perfect tapping, and it's a lot easier to just aim well and not have to think about when to hit the notes.

All I'm gathering from your post is that you're saying that non-zero aim UR is workable because you can just hit the notes off-time to compensate for having poor aim? I can't agree with that.

It's not required, but very unlikely for you to be hitting a stream if you don't get 0 UR with relax, because you're very likely to miss a note at some point if you're not properly on point because you might tap, say, 1ms before your cursor is actually over the circle.
All you are saying is that, given perfect aim you need perfect tapping to hit streams. This doesn't rule out that with imperfect tapping you no longer need perfect aim.

We've both agreed that perfect tapping is non-existent which in turn means that perfect aim is not required.

TL;DR your argument is stupid because it's based off false premises.
Mahogany
You don't need perfect tapping to hit streams if you have perfect aim, I've never said that. What I'm saying is you can't hit streams with perfect/near perfect tapping and imperfect aim, because at some point you'll tap while your cursor is off of a circle due to your aim. That was my entire point and why relax isn't a good judge of whether you're aiming a stream correctly, because that isn't a factor in relax.
Barusamikosu
Just play the map 350 times it worked for me.
ZenithPhantasm
play more
Mahogany
As always Zenny chan is right
E m i

Barusamikosu wrote:

Just play the map 350 times it worked for me.
;ㅅ;
ZenithPhantasm

Mahogany wrote:

As always Zenny chan is right
^
chainpullz

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Mahogany wrote:

As always Zenny chan is right
Except when I'm not.
Purple

asmit10 wrote:

When watching the replay of a run that I just did, I noticed that i'm normally pretty far to the right on that bar, but on most of the map that isn't a spaced stream it's to the left a bit.
Being on the far right means you're not streaming fast enough, or that you're skipping circles. or that your fingers get stuck for a fraction of a section mid-stream
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