No. Sounds are a vibration in the air, so they don't disappear instantly. Maps should never be forced to play as you would make the sound in real life.
Agreed. In addition, if the mapping technique didn't fit the song enough, then it would surely be worked out in the modding/ranking process.blissfulyoshi wrote:
No. Sounds are a vibration in the air, so they don't disappear instantly. Maps should never be forced to play as you would make the sound in real life.
Making 3/4 extended sliders that do not follow anything in music unrankable would be the best idea. I'm not joking at all!DakeDekaane wrote:
Have in mind this doesn't only apply to short sliders, some people uses 3/4 (extended) sliders when there's no held note at all, just a plain hit.
It'd work more as a guideline, since it's hard to tell if it's a single hit/held note in some cases, leading to endless discussions.
I have nothing against 3/4 extended sliders that follow the song. What I was referring to was the end of sliders that try to be held for the sake of following vocal when there is a real beat 1/4 after but this is 2015 so I think you are right!Okoratu wrote:
The I'm not joking at all! part makes it sound like a joke
so this is one of those "i don't like this technique so let's make it unrankable" threads? On that matter I would agree with yoshi and Lust
I'm not going to go off-topic no more so in a case where I see appropriate to use is double 1/4 circles. I see some difficulty in playing double 1/4 so using a short 1/4 slider simplifies it better.Kert wrote:
An example of this is replacing 2circles+longer slider patterns (it's a triple in tapping sense) with 1/4 short sliders + longer slider combinations without any musical reason (become 2 spaced with 1/2 apart).
I specifically mention percussion since this can be okay in for example dubstep-like maps because they have short enough not-percussion effects that fit to these patterns.
This clarifies everything I got thanks for it.Kert wrote:
You know this kind of techniques are really overlooked most of the time, just because they're "cool"Lust wrote:
Agreed. In addition, if the mapping technique didn't fit the song enough, then it would surely be worked out in the modding/ranking process.blissfulyoshi wrote:
No. Sounds are a vibration in the air, so they don't disappear instantly. Maps should never be forced to play as you would make the sound in real life.
In that case why not just make them circles without tails?monstrata wrote:
Not all these "short sliders" are mapped with the intention that you should hold them though...
When I map kicksliders, I prefer to think of them as just circles with a tail attached. They are very useful for creating short breaks in between stream sections of a map if you want to keep intensity without making the map too dense with 32+note streams.
Whose definition? He even gave his reasons for them and you just basically said "no that's wrong".Kert wrote:
That's exactly the situation where they shouldn't be used! Sliders are supposed to be held by definition
UwotKert wrote:
In that case why not just make them circles without tails?monstrata wrote:
Not all these "short sliders" are mapped with the intention that you should hold them though...
When I map kicksliders, I prefer to think of them as just circles with a tail attached. They are very useful for creating short breaks in between stream sections of a map if you want to keep intensity without making the map too dense with 32+note streams.
That's exactly the situation where they shouldn't be used! Sliders are supposed to be held by definition
Kibbleru wrote:
lol no
wayyyyy too limiting
and a guideline would also be pointless cuz lets be homest. who follows those right? pfft
I agree ;=;captin1 wrote:
there's enough rules as is, don't need to restrict things further for no reason other than someone's opinion
there should not ever be a "this is the way you should map this because it's right" because you're not right, nobody is right. it's up to how the mapper wishes to interpret the song.
1/4 slider is NOT the same as a simple 1/2 circle, and lets be honest here. 1/4 sliders give an entirely different effect when compared to 1/2 circles, well obviously, because they are 1/4s. 1/4 sliders are MEANT to be used in 1/4 sections.Kert wrote:
In that case why not just make them circles without tails?monstrata wrote:
Not all these "short sliders" are mapped with the intention that you should hold them though...
When I map kicksliders, I prefer to think of them as just circles with a tail attached. They are very useful for creating short breaks in between stream sections of a map if you want to keep intensity without making the map too dense with 32+note streams.
That's exactly the situation where they shouldn't be used! Sliders are supposed to be held by definition
no one is going to put all 1/16 sliders lol (this is unrankable iirc) unless if youre willing to silence all the slider tails manually, lol.Kert wrote:
No one would follow guidelines that's the point.
How about you all stop with personal attacks? You saying it's only my opinion doesn't make this more valid.
And it IS overmapping, just to a smaller extent. How about emphasizing every beat and put 1/16 sliders instead of all objects?
Mapper: "It looks cool! Such epicness!"
And then the players get sliderbreaks and confusion because of this "art" that makes the map less playable...
Cherry Blossom made a good example of what should be discouraged.
Why haven't this brought up earlier? God knows. Maybe it wasn't that popular back then?
It was obvious from the beginning it's used to "emphasize" something so misunderstanding is not the problem herecaptin1 wrote:
not understanding why someone does something doesn't mean it's bad, just means there's a lack of understanding
Ranking process is supposed to be based on rules, otherwise one can get anything ranked.Liiraye wrote:
I have no comment on using 1/16, it feels excessive for most parts, so I believe the ranking process should adress that, not rules.
1/4 sliders however, or even some 1/8 sliders only meant to be clicked once do a great job in emphasizing strong notes without needing too much spacing.
You could always half/double/triple/quadruple/etc the BPM of the song too, in case you want 1/2, 1/1, 2/1, 4/1 or x/1 to be excessive too.Kert wrote:
You're saying 1/16 is bad and feels excessive and should be discouraged.. but 1/8 (sometimes) and 1/4 is fine.
I can say the same but a step lower - 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 is excessive and 1/2, 1/1 is fine.
How more valid is "banning" 1/16 and 1/8 and not banning 1/4?
Kert wrote:
It was obvious from the beginning it's used to "emphasize" something so misunderstanding is not the problem herecaptin1 wrote:
not understanding why someone does something doesn't mean it's bad, just means there's a lack of understandingRanking process is supposed to be based on rules, otherwise one can get anything ranked.Liiraye wrote:
I have no comment on using 1/16, it feels excessive for most parts, so I believe the ranking process should adress that, not rules.
1/4 sliders however, or even some 1/8 sliders only meant to be clicked once do a great job in emphasizing strong notes without needing too much spacing.
Also that's the problem here. You're saying 1/16 is bad and feels excessive and should be discouraged.. but 1/8 (sometimes) and 1/4 is fine.
I can say the same but a step lower - 1/16, 1/8, 1/4 is excessive and 1/2, 1/1 is fine.
How more valid is "banning" 1/16 and 1/8 and not banning 1/4?
The purpose of this rule is basically to formally address the situations where it disrupts gameplay. It's still a game, not a painting or whateverLiiraye wrote:
if it doesn't disrupt gameplay and fits really well I'm 100% for overmapping.
There are special cases yes, but compare the number of special cases to cases where these kick sliders have no disruption to gameplay. I don't have any hard numbers but I can imagine the ratio being very much in favor of the latter. Of course, it also depends on what people consider are "kicksliders that disrupt gameplay" but the subjectivity of this statement already makes calling it a rule a horrible idea. Rules have to be objective.Kert wrote:
The purpose of this rule is basically to formally address the situations where it disrupts gameplay. It's still a game, not a painting or whateverLiiraye wrote:
if it doesn't disrupt gameplay and fits really well I'm 100% for overmapping.
It may be better as a guideline if there's too many special cases by looking at the current definition, but guidelines aren't enforced a lot so
Then guidelines shouldn't be enforced if the mapper knows what he's doing. If you had this rule banning this way of mapping, said mappers wouldn't even be able to produce it. After all, if it disrupts gameplay BN's/QAT will get on it. If nobody thinks it does disrupt gameplay but you still do... well maybe the problem lies with you then? I still think having this as a rule would cause more harm than good.Kert wrote:
The purpose of this rule is basically to formally address the situations where it disrupts gameplay. It's still a game, not a painting or whateverLiiraye wrote:
if it doesn't disrupt gameplay and fits really well I'm 100% for overmapping.
It may be better as a guideline if there's too many special cases by looking at the current definition, but guidelines aren't enforced a lot so