Can you replace "Sight-reading" as description for Reaction with "High AR"?
Has nothing to do with sightreading really.

riffraff11235 wrote:

Quick question: What is it about your setup that prevents the site from fetching new scores every time it's refreshed, the way that osu!track does?

Kert set limits on how many times refresh can fetch new scores due to concerns that all of the requests submissions may go over the api limit if spammed or such. That's as much as I know.

do combos influence Accuracy at all? or just only acc.

abraker wrote:

riffraff11235 wrote:

Quick question: What is it about your setup that prevents the site from fetching new scores every time it's refreshed, the way that osu!track does?

Kert set limits on how many times refresh can fetch new scores due to concerns that all of the requests submissions may go over the api limit if spammed or such. That's as much as I know.

I just realized that some scores I thought should have been submitted probably didn't meet the criteria to be counted. The site has definitely improved a lot since the first time I've used it.

This has probably come up before, but i can't just read through 55 pages aaaaaa...



Could i pls get my account and not the person from like 2008 with the same name? ;3;

Did you try searching for the name you originally registered with?

Josde wrote:

You guys forgot to account for the CS change in EZ while trying to calculate agility. My play on Bravely You [-Tochi's Insane] +EZDT (1xsliderbreak) gives 753 agility points, while a DT only FC gives around 777.

CS is calculated in precision, agility is meant to be raw aim... it was discussed the need to account the CS or not account it on agility a very long time ago, I think it is already decided...

snyviper wrote:

CS is calculated in precision, agility is meant to be raw aim... it was discussed the need to account the CS or not account it on agility a very long time ago, I think it is already decided...

Well, remember that if circles are big enough or close enough, you can reduce aim needed for some patterns to almost zero. Especially, if the circles don't overlap on HR/nomod, but do overlap nomod/Eazy. You could just point once, then click more than single circle with the same cursor position.

There can be more extreme examples than two notes clicked per single cursor pointing, instead of one. It doesn't really need to be because CS=2 or so, it can be met on "more normal" CS maps too.
I don't remember exactly what map was it and I still know just a handful out of all maps, but I there was a map with quite fast triangles made from very closely placed notes, that would overlap on +EZ or +EZ,DT.
Then, you would still need very fast triangle-like movements on HR/nomod (+DT), even if they would be small movements, while on +EZ,DT you would just need to point cursor in the middle of the triangle and keep clicking. I think that on that map there were patterns with multiple of such triangles (3 of them?) placed in a manner, where they had a common middle, while they were spinning.

So, instead of making 9 small, but still quite rapid moves to click the triangles, especially on HR that makes them disjoint, you would just need to point once on EZ and keep clicking. If there are few such patterns on the map, the change in agility needed could be really quite visible and easy to feel.

These don't really need to be such triangles, there are many patterns that can be affected greatly by CS. You can not have enough agility to make some stars on HR consistently, while EZ makes them big enough to easily pass them and FC the map. Remember that you don't need to click a middle of the circle, so things like CS5.2-->CS4 or CS 4 --> CS 2 can really make clicking easier and reduce agility needed. Even if these are usually small amounts, on a long run they all add up and the difference is more significant

snyviper wrote:

CS is calculated in precision, agility is meant to be raw aim...

So, that wall of text above being said, and all these pages in this thread that I read in past... I still don't understand... how can CS be completely ignored in Agility? Like Abraker said, "when multiple skills come into play, and one dominates over the other, we feel like other skills must be raised because of how hard the map is." So, even though precision already uses CS, it should be calculated into agility too, as on smaller CS the distances between the sets of pixels inside which you need to click are smaller and these areas are much bigger itself. How is this possibly not affecting raw aim, especially when sometimes it reduces aim needed on some patterns by many times, even to zero? It's not that we just can't aim small circles, the distance between the circles can be physically greatly reduced and with big circles we can sometimes click "wherever we want", if we just moved in the right direction, then try to correct the error with next circles.

abraker wrote:

I talked about something similiar in the previous post.

I know that many questions were already answered, more or less, but the people keep asking the same questions, over and over, as they often don't really understand how things exactly works and they have their own interpretation and perception of things like "Raw Aim" or "Streaming". And going through almost 60 pages is not something easily feasible for everyone

People can think of splitting "Streaming" and "Tapping stamina" apart in different ways and kind of no one, except You guys, knows how it really works. So, they keep asking again and again, giving their own thoughts, suggestions, try to give constructive (or not) feedback, etc. The same with other skills.

I think that it would be a good move to add a little more precise descriptions, that explains what the skills exactly do and, at least briefly, give us some bites of informations about the factors needed in the calculation and their significance.
Laconic 1-2 word descriptions like the current ones can keep causing problems and misunderstandings. What do you think about it?

I agree, completely ignoring CS in "Raw Aim" just doesn't work. Aiming speed and aiming precision are strongly intertwined, and the overall difficulty is the result of the combination of the two, something like how the area of a rectangle is the product of the two sides.

As an example look at Cookiezi's Toumei HDHR play.

It gets him ~900 aim, and 500 precision.

Now I could FC that map at say CS3 or CS2 and get the same 900 agility. I could also FC a CS5.2 version at let's say 160 BPM and get the same 500 precision.

So I made two way easier plays, yet according to osu!skills I demonstrated the same 900 Agility skill and the same 500 Precision skill as Cookezi with his HR play.
Needless to say, someone who can only nail the aforementioned two plays is not even close in actual skill to being able to get that HR FC, but this is not reflected in the skill points in any way, on paper we'd appear to have the same skills.

Also map length (total length of difficult parts) seems to be largely irrelevant. What's the difference in raw aim awarded if you copy paste the same 1 minute map over 10 times? Natsukoi Hanabi DT gets me 830 aim. People can just retry it for 10 minutes and get the FC. If the map was the same map copypasted over 10 times, these same players wouldn't even be close to being able to FC it, you'd need to be at a much higher skill level to pull that off, but looking at the 800 agility awarded for that HD Uta [Himei] FC, I assume the raw agility for that lengthened map wouldn't reflect this much at all.

Basically any CS can be turned into whatever you like by resizing the osu! window, so pp approach of rescaling maps to a standard CS is a perfect basis, where that alone would fall short is the fact that you can't just infinitely increase your tablet area.

So what if we're stuck with having to play the upscaled map without being able to increase our area? You're forced to play with a higher sensitivity, which makes things gradually harder.

Imagine any map shrunk to an 1cm x 1cm area in the middle of the screen. Obviously it's harder than the original map, due to effectively having to use an extreme, much higher than normal sensitivity. This is what happens on a smaller scale as we increase CS, unless you can increase your area (there's a limit here, even with an infinite sized tablet, everyone only trains to use an area of a given size) as much as you increase the osu! window size to get back the original CS.

So I believe standardizing CS and accounting with a function for the "sensitivity" factor as CS increases is the way to go. You can still extract individual Agility and Precision values, by dividing up the total between the two using a ratio based on the current agility and precision numbers for example.

snyviper wrote:

Josde wrote:

You guys forgot to account for the CS change in EZ while trying to calculate agility. My play on Bravely You [-Tochi's Insane] +EZDT (1xsliderbreak) gives 753 agility points, while a DT only FC gives around 777.

CS is calculated in precision, agility is meant to be raw aim... it was discussed the need to account the CS or not account it on agility a very long time ago, I think it is already decided...

Then agility should be "aim speed", not "raw aim". You can't compare the "raw aim" needed to FC a map in CS2 to the one you need to FC that same map on CS4; albeit your aim speed would be the same CS2 is way more lenient on mistakes, making a less skilled player be able to FC more easily. CS is a factor in aim, just because it is calculated elsewhere doesn't mean it shouldn't be taken in count for "raw aim".

CS is considered when calculating Agility, just not to that extent as in Precision
i.e. we calculate distance between circle borders and not their centers

It still isn't representative of actual skills, if you just separate aim speed and aim precision from the get go, as I've pointed out before.

Calculating border to border distance doesn't fix this fundamental flaw, it's only enough to solve edge cases where you wouldn't even need to move your cursor due to huge circles.

Every system that tries to break up a whole performance in pieces will have an error. That's natural so deal with it I guess.

But this one thing isn't difficult to fix, you just normalize CS, and even without additional tweaks it's pretty good. Literally the game itself allows you to do it, if you wanted to. You can still calc the weight of skill components if you got the whole thing right.

Blue and yellow areas (difficulties, skills required) aren't equal, but the current osu!skills considers them so. (Image is just meant to show the principle, not actual ratios/equations).

I'm sorry for having caused confusion, I meant things were already decided, but I don't remember what was decided

Now a lot soon ( Agility mostly) were not returned
прямо сейчас множество скоров (ловкости в основном) не были возвращены

Uh, is it possible that accuracy is heavily affected by misses since tenacity is affected by misses? (As far as I understood maps with high Tenacity rating grant more acc-points)
My new Little Princess score has 54 acc points over the old one in spite of having "only" 0.73% accuracy more (but being FC) which seems to be fairly unreasonable.

Tenacity isn't worth anything to be compared to because atm all high tenacity maps can be low acc fast maps that belong in stamina

Khelly wrote:

Tenacity isn't worth anything to be compared to because atm all high tenacity maps can be low acc fast maps that belong in stamina

I don't get what tenacity is for. I have good stamina but my acc in long streams is all over the place and yet my tenacity is higher than my stamina(513 vs 538)

i think Reaction is broken, all my highest reaction plays is the once i have memories entirely. its literly the only plays that i havent done in reaction... its 1min 2-3* ar11 maps.. i normaly do everything in one or 3 plays most of my pp plays to.. and the only plays i have that isn't sightread at all is the once at the top of Reaction.
http://osuskills.tk/user/Leggo/skill/reaction

Leggo wrote:

...

It's not broken, it's juat other skills don't make it as hard to do.

Endaris wrote:

Did you try searching for the name you originally registered with?

sorry for the late response, yea, i did. didn't find a user with that name.

Update

Gained combo will now influence all skills except Stamina, Tenacity and Accuracy
Recalculation is in process

AR 11 is impossible for me, it doesn't matter how long the song is, and how many stars either. Everyone who can achieve FCing an AR 11 map or even passing it without NF deserves a great reaction points imo o.o AR 11 doesn't work like FL for me, I tried, I couldn't pass 5 seconds of the map... Maybe I'm just noob xD

Guess it reset because of recalculation
Did the database reset?

http://osuskills.tk/user/Kao
Below 100 in all categories in my country...
So happy
Inb4 I go down when database gets updated

Lmao, Berserk again.

snyviper wrote:

AR 11 is impossible for me, it doesn't matter how long the song is, and how many stars either. Everyone who can achieve FCing an AR 11 map or even passing it without NF deserves a great reaction points imo o.o AR 11 doesn't work like FL for me, I tried, I couldn't pass 5 seconds of the map... Maybe I'm just noob xD

I fc'd a 20 second ar11 map.

It's the unforgiving marathon's shortest map

HOLY SHIT I JUAT GOT 954 FROM IT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWUvXgqrkRw

Khelly wrote:

I fc'd a 20 second ar11 map.

It's the unforgiving marathon's shortest map

As things are right now, you can theoretically FC a 5 note AR11 map and get around an 800 score or so. When making the algorithm, AR was made the big influence. If I take account length, some AR11 maps would be below certain AR8 maps or similiar. Yes, the map is short and therefore easier to FC, but the reaction needed to FC the map still remains the same as a same star marathon AR11 map.

With given reaction skill you have X% chance to make each jump at AR11. If the map is short enough you'll likely get the FC if your skill is somewhat adequate. If you increase the length however, your chance starts converging to zero, unless you have good enough reaction to make those jumps consistently and thus still stand a realistic chance.

This applies to aim in general btw. Someone doing difficult jumps with 99% consistency is not the same as someone retrying a short map and nailing 5-10 jumps of the same difficulty with skill only enough for 80-90% chance at each peak difficulty jump.

cool osuskills is cute again

To be fair a system that only brings the top score in calculation can't really measure consistency
And there's not a whole lot we can do about that unless we can utilise smart as ai that count in all the plays (including retries to a certain degree)

StephOsu wrote:

To be fair a system that only brings the top score in calculation can't really measure consistency
And there's not a whole lot we can do about that unless we can utilise smart as that count in all the plays (including retries to a certain degree)

if the player is consistent, they can get similar performance on a lot of different maps.

timemon wrote:

if the player is consistent, they can get similar performance on a lot of different maps.

Name me 10 5-digit-rank player that is consistent

StephOsu wrote:

timemon wrote:

if the player is consistent, they can get similar performance on a lot of different maps.

Name me 10 5-digit-rank player that is consistent

I am one.
consistently missing

timemon wrote:

StephOsu wrote:

To be fair a system that only brings the top score in calculation can't really measure consistency
And there's not a whole lot we can do about that unless we can utilise smart as that count in all the plays (including retries to a certain degree)

if the player is consistent, they can get similar performance on a lot of different maps.

Map length plays huge part in player's consistency too. Agility, tenacity and stamina seems to favor only hardest part of the map *stares at Brand New World and Natsukoi Hanabi*

HK_ wrote:

I am one.
consistently missing

N i c e m e m e

Militari wrote:

Map length plays huge part in player's consistency too. Agility, tenacity and stamina seems to favor only hardest part of the map *stares at Brand New World and Natsukoi Hanabi*

there's not a whole lot we can do about that when only top scores is registered
it can only measure our peak performance instead of average performance

you don't even have to call this consistency, being able to do numerous hard jumps is simply more raw skill than only getting a few hard jumps right because you can easily retry to make up for not being quite good enough. you can look at two different FCs and tell this difference, this can be measured on each map, it's only a matter of weighting between longer vs short difficulty peaks.

First time having volcanic

I'm not even mad