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TheLukay
122 posts
Joined July 2012
TheLukay

snyviper wrote:

Momiji wrote:

Agility just scales too hard, everyone is good at jump aim according to osuskills plz fix ;w;
Well... Not just agility. Look at this graph I made (and also posted here) http://prntscr.com/9yuues
This would be a totally average player, all skills are from the same rank. Agility and tenacity scales too much. Precision and accuracy scales too little. Not sure about stamina, maybe it's ok, maybe it's scaling too much...
I think everything scales just fine. My acc is extremely bad(almost any player rank 20k or better will have the same or better acc than me)compared to the rest(not counting in Precision since >CS6 doesn't really weight into my pp or top100) http://imgur.com/LeNBBKM

On a different note I'd really really really like to see a skill for Spinner. They're part of the game but everybody seems to forget them.
E m i
E m i

Kert wrote:

Distance between objects is slightly bigger with HR and slightly smaller with EZ than nomod. This affects the speed you are talking about too
This doesn't even seem to be accounted for (yet?), and I think that the center of objects is what matters more because it's approximately what players are aiming for.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
I don't know what you're trying to say then anymore
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Is tapping stamina also stream stamina?
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Momiji wrote:

Kert wrote:

Distance between objects is slightly bigger with HR and slightly smaller with EZ than nomod. This affects the speed you are talking about too
This doesn't even seem to be accounted for (yet?), and I think that the center of objects is what matters more because it's approximately what players are aiming for.
Kert, it affects speed very insignificantly. Smaller CS affects the distance by some 40 osu!px or so (need to run calculations). As for what I think he is trying to say is that the formula is factoring speed vs precision wrong. Agility is dependent on precision in regard that players loose pression the faster the jump is and pattern requires more precision the further the note is. Then the resultant precision from the 2 factors mentioned tell how likely the player is able to aim a certain note given CS.

Khelly wrote:

Is tapping stamina also stream stamina?
currently yes. Tapping stamina is affected by how fast you need to tap. Since you neee to tap fast for streams, streams affect tapping stamina
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
So here's a question I have because I didn't really participate in any discussion ever: Is the tapping (or tenacity, whatever) stat affected in long stream maps by how difficult those maps are agility wise? A few days ago I was playing four dimensions and I just wanted to verify if my failing stamina at the end was affected by aim which I guessed it was.

I played warpledge onslaught immediately after and got my x1000 combo. That map has little stream aim. Then I played https://osu.ppy.sh/b/267052 and didn't break on any of the longer streams even though it's the same bpm as Four dimensions. Then I immediately played Four dimensions autopilot and again, didn't break on the streams that I was losing stamina on when playing it properly. If anything, my stamina should be worse on each successive map since I didn't rest.

That was my unscientific experiment.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I talked about this with B1rd, which made realize an unforseen side effect from seperating the skills.

abraker wrote:

Separating the skills completely independent of each other may cause some other factors to occur. Players seem to be able to aim with the Relax mod and tap with auto pilot much better than nomod. The player focuses less on a general task the more independent tasks there are. I will have to look into how multitasking affects performance and see what the distribution of focus is between tapping and targeting given the map's requirements and player skill. That then should be weighted in to the skills to counterbalance the issue you are mentioning.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
That's also why accurate lowbpm-streaming is terribly underrated. Even Granat has a higher streamrating than some 130bpm deathstream maps.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
To be honest, under about 140 bpm, you can just singletap streams (Maybe if you're faster than me you can do 140 streams singletap well but I'm meh). 150-160 bpm streams is where I can't reliably singletap them at all and they're too slow to stream.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
nyanyanyan nomod doesn't give any reasonable streaming score either.
From my point of view it is relatively random how much score a map gives unless it is clearly fast and streamheavy.
Just the fact alone that a map like Granat with exactly one quint as a non-FC-score with mediocre gives more points than a 99,x FC on a 4min 170bpm song with some actual streams is just stupid.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
Please, show exact Granat vs streammap scores and their stamina/tenacity points. Both must be fc-s

It will be a complete mess if we mix tap difficulty with aim. I am strongly against this.
Buffing spaced streams is probably possible with some more precise tweaking. It's already considered to some extent.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Kert wrote:

It will be a complete mess if we mix tap difficulty with aim. I am strongly against this.
But do you deny that tap difficulty, at least for streams, is affected by aim?
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
It's not. The chance of a miss increases if you're bad at aiming/can't read in this case. You don't really need to press faster or for a longer time, because obviosly nothing changes in the rhythm.
Misses have the most impact on received points (any skill) and I don't think that it's possible to identify from the lack of what skill a certain miss happened.
The problem here is agilty value of a big fast jump sequence in comparison with a spaced stream. I repeat, we haven't found a good balance yet.
DeletedUser_6614359
DeletedUser_6614359
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Last edited by DeletedUser_6614359 , edited 1 time in total.
E m i
E m i

Kert wrote:

I don't know what you're trying to say then anymore
That despite the agility stat implying aim, it doesn't seem to consider circle size at all
Or I guess you know this already so I might just be saying that I see it as a slight problem xd
Precision exists, right? Interestingly it seems to consider more than just the circle size alone :o
Last edited by E m i , edited 1 time in total.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Aye sir, unfortunately I can't FC Granat but
Drop - Granat (Kaguya Hourain) [Natural Gem] (96.67%)
awards me 267 points for Tenacity with 163 combo, 2 misses and 6 100s
The map has a total of 3 quads in terms of streams if I didn't miscount. Based on the information you gave earlier in the thread, minimum-length has to be 6 notes before it is considered as a stream so this map should be considered as a map without streams.

while
Touyama Nao & Yamazaki Haruka - Ringo Ribbon (Fycho) [Insane] (99.4%)
as FC awards me 242 points for Tenacity even though I can clearly remember that it had a couple of streams above 6 notes even though you can't call it a streammap.

In any case, we still got nostreams+noFC vs FC+fewstreams and the latter gives less points which doesn't make sense to me.

For reference I got as FCs
Raujika - Cry More (Broccoly) [Broccoly] +HD (99.86%) 200 points
Otokaze - Mallow Flower (spboxer3) [Mallow] +HD (100%) 217 points
Otokaze - Karen (Short Ver.) (spboxer3) [Hanabi] (99.08%) 237 points
As you probably know these 3 are all exclusive singletap-maps which is why they shouldn't award any points for streaming at all and even if they appear they shouldn't get close to a map that contains something you can actually call a stream.
Minecraft570
34 posts
Joined December 2012
Minecraft570
I have a suggestion.It would have more competition if a country ranking is added.It should be quite easy to make right?:P
The Actor
51 posts
Joined October 2015
The Actor

Minecraft570 wrote:

I have a suggestion.It would have more competition if a country ranking is added.It should be quite easy to make right?:P
osu!supporter
It's already implemented, need to spend money tho
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert

Minecraft570 wrote:

I have a suggestion.It would have more competition if a country ranking is added.It should be quite easy to make right?:P
Takes a bit of time, but yes it can be done.

The Actor, you forgot to read what this thread is about
but yeah we still need osu!Skills donations to keep the site alive :(
currently they barely manage to cover the costs
E m i
E m i
Last updates: Top 100 — 9 days ago
pls help it's not a one time issue xd
Defacer
131 posts
Joined October 2011
Defacer
I was right about all of the titles actually. Just wondering who's the one privileged with the 'tenacious' title. Stamina only is even undiscovered. And there is a title better than versatile. It's probably called Master or something and I guess it requires ~800 stamina and tenacity, speaking from experience this looks very difficult to achieve, although we have a cheater on #1 on these skills, he might do it and unlock the epic title lulz.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert

Momiji wrote:

Last updates: Top 100 — 9 days ago
pls help it's not a one time issue xd
Sorry, weird stuff happens and I don't know the cause yet : (

Defacer wrote:

although we have a cheater on #1 on these skills, he might do it and unlock the epic title lulz.
We'll try to think of something to prevent this~
TheLukay
122 posts
Joined July 2012
TheLukay
The website says "last update 2 hours ago" but none of my recent plays are anywhere. Are sure that it updated correctly?
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
I figured out what's the source of the problem is. It's partly connected to osu!api servers sometimes being unreachable
Hopefully top100 scores will be updated tomorrow (I set it to start updating today at midnight)
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
Yeah, top100 scores have been updated!
Sorry for the inconvinience!
It took wooping 24 hours for the updater to do the task wow. osu!api server is under stress I suppose
gameon123321
57 posts
Joined December 2012
gameon123321
Just noticed something on precision - high cs on hardrock and easier maps is overweighted compared to lower cs's and harder maps.

For example (and I know this is an exaggeration), Rocket (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/340) on Easy diff is much easier to aim (b/c it's slower) than maps like Insane Techniques (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/389703) and Chesire,s Dance (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/383536), but it's rated higher. How is this first score weighted more than the second? Rocket gives you ample time to aim, whereas Insane Techniques is full of sliders, 1/4 jumps, etc.

Low-quality proof:
(http://imgur.com/a/VIYYJ)
kelemenopy
6 posts
Joined September 2015
kelemenopy
Have you considered renaming Accuracy? Just because I always confuse it for Precision and have to look up the difference. Maybe something like Rhythm or Timing?
snyviper
87 posts
Joined April 2015
snyviper
I think the name "Accuracy" shouldn't be changed... it's everywhere in osu website, ingame... and it always mean the same thing. Precision is the one that's not written in anywhere. I once thought about suggesting to change it to Aim, but... the name "Precision" is better imo.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert

gameon123321 wrote:

Just noticed something on precision - high cs on hardrock and easier maps is overweighted compared to lower cs's and harder maps.

For example (and I know this is an exaggeration), Rocket (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/340) on Easy diff is much easier to aim (b/c it's slower) than maps like Insane Techniques (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/389703) and Chesire,s Dance (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/383536), but it's rated higher. How is this first score weighted more than the second? Rocket gives you ample time to aim, whereas Insane Techniques is full of sliders, 1/4 jumps, etc.

Low-quality proof:
(http://imgur.com/a/VIYYJ)
We'll look into it. It's been reported quite a few times actually

Meanwhile, a new update appears.

Country rankings added!
You can also see country / global ranks in player profiles.
Also everything is clickable so you can easily navigate from profiles to country / global rankings to specific pages where you are placed.

Keep in mind that if a player was never checked on the site before it can take up to 10 minutes for him to appear in the rankings.
verto
307 posts
Joined October 2012
verto
Wow the new rankings are great, been hyped by it all day, though I wanted to post about something else:

https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4611791

I made this score in December and it is top100, but it didn't get in my memory performance. Is it intentional, or some kind of bug?
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

_verto_ wrote:

Wow the new rankings are great, been hyped by it all day, though I wanted to post about something else:

https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4611791

I made this score in December and it is top100, but it didn't get in my memory performance. Is it intentional, or some kind of bug?
I took a look, and it's possible to sightread that map with FL, so no skill points in memory
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
U.S stamina 3
Tenacity 6
Agility 9

Wellp
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Khelly wrote:

U.S stamina 3
Tenacity 6
Agility 9

Wellp
I believe it's still processing. I saw n/a for some players
verto
307 posts
Joined October 2012
verto

abraker wrote:

_verto_ wrote:

Wow the new rankings are great, been hyped by it all day, though I wanted to post about something else:

https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4611791

I made this score in December and it is top100, but it didn't get in my memory performance. Is it intentional, or some kind of bug?
I took a look, and it's possible to sightread that map with FL, so no skill points in memory
That makes sense, though there are a lot of easy/normal maps that give memory points:
http://puu.sh/nmp6o/d8bf654245.png
^I think this is FCable on sightread as well.

If I HRFL'd land of snow, would it give memory points?

Also I'm not sure about this one, since I was only top100 for a few hours/days and I don't think it's sightread fcable with FL unless you are really fast with the cursor to scout the area, but https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4612473 this might be ignored by the algorithm as well.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
HDHRFL definetly gets it. I think it will need to be at least a HDFL

though there are a lot of easy/normal maps that give memory points:
http://puu.sh/nmp6o/d8bf654245.png
^I think this is FCable on sightread as well.
The algorithm thinks you have to remember where the notes are after each break. I need to check if it's AR dependent because you can go wild with the cursor and get the notes. I think it would be harder to pull off an Exgon at higher AR.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

abraker wrote:

Khelly wrote:

U.S stamina 3
Tenacity 6
Agility 9

Wellp
I believe it's still processing. I saw n/a for some players
It was N/A for me and I had to manually change the link from page 0 to page 1 when I clicked on my N/A.
TheLukay
122 posts
Joined July 2012
TheLukay


Is it cause scores etc may still be processing? it's also missing a lot of my recent scores and it says "4 months ago" on every profile I go to.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Better wait for kert to come on. Dunno what's with the web stuff :\
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert

TheLukay wrote:



Is it cause scores etc may still be processing? it's also missing a lot of my recent scores and it says "4 months ago" on every profile I go to.
You're accessing the test part of the site (you can check the link of the page to be sure). Some cache problems on your side most likely
Go to main page and start from there and if you have problems press ctrl-f5 to clean cache on the page.
timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,305 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon
woo it's awesome!

thank you for making something for me to farm other than pp
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