But "farm maps" are also snowballing.

Player x sees that map with HDDT on proplayer qz's profile and thinks "hey, if you can DT that, maybe I can do that nomod".
More proplayers that are competing for #1 play the map with DT/HDDT and more trashplayers like me are getting the idea that this map must be relatively good for pp nomod. Other people are looking for the top ranks of players close to their rank and if they see the same map again, they'll FC it too.
It's one big circlejerk, there are tons of maps eligible for "farming" that just weren't found yet. And even then, most maps aren't X-Encounter.

Am I the only one who gets the impression people think it's a bad thing when many people can fc a map and thus resort to calling it farm? I'm not even talking about od 8 + DT 3* maps that get the insane acc pp. Just in general. Why is this a bad thing that a map is widely fcable?

Reset- wrote:

Its just annoying to see ppl bitch abt technical maps being shit just because they cant play it ; when these ppl are the real shits and they cant accept the fact that theyre shit.
And why is that? Because the maps are underweighted as fuck and these ppl only ever play overweighted maps like koigokoro as mentioned in the video.

Reset- wrote:

Just learn to respect everyone whether theyre tryhards / farmers / mappers or whoever and ejoy game

???

Khelly wrote:

Am I the only one who gets the impression people think it's a bad thing when many people can fc a map and thus resort to calling it farm? I'm not even talking about od 8 + DT 3* maps that get the insane acc pp. Just in general. Why is this a bad thing that a map is widely fcable?

It isn't imo.
Most farm maps have a very high quality especially in terms of flow and are enjoyable to play due to that. Rhythmical simplicity is just given by the song and if they're nice to aim one thing comes to the other.

Basically im annoyed at how the above ppl dont respect mappers

Endaris wrote:

Khelly wrote:

Am I the only one who gets the impression people think it's a bad thing when many people can fc a map and thus resort to calling it farm? I'm not even talking about od 8 + DT 3* maps that get the insane acc pp. Just in general. Why is this a bad thing that a map is widely fcable?

It isn't imo.
Most farm maps have a very high quality especially in terms of flow and are enjoyable to play due to that. Rhythmical simplicity is just given by the song and if they're nice to aim one thing comes to the other.

I didn't say it was; I said people think it's a bad thing. It rubs me the same way when someone gets a new high pp score and pp exclaim pp is broken like you aren't supposed to make scores outside of some normal kind of range. Yes, I think they're serious.

Reset- wrote:

Basically im annoyed at how the above ppl dont respect mappers

I don't like the Dear You map. I like Leaf - Evanescent and I - Terror. Maybe it's just opinion that some technical maps aren't that good!

Reset- wrote:

Basically im annoyed at how the above ppl dont respect mappers

some people don't see the work behind maps sadly

Khelly wrote:

I didn't say it was; I said people think it's a bad thing. It rubs me the same way when someone gets a new high pp score and pp exclaim pp is broken like you aren't supposed to make scores outside of some normal kind of range. Yes, I think they're serious.

I know, Khelly, I can read. I just answered your last question with my opinion :<

They dream way too much, they don't realize how much hard work, willpower, and joy to be a true Osu! player

Come to think of splitting pp in to acc, aim and speed, what if we had DT/HR/HD/nomod rankings for everyone?

Endaris wrote:

And even then, most maps aren't X-Encounter.

8)

Anyhow, as long as you're enjoying yourself, it doesn't matter. Or well, as long as if you're not enjoying yourself, you don't take your non-enjoyment and shove it in other peoples face, it's all cool.

What the other players do in the game ultimately don't have any effect on how you enjoy your stay around here.

CXu wrote:

Endaris wrote:

And even then, most maps aren't X-Encounter.

8)

Anyhow, as long as you're enjoying yourself, it doesn't matter. Or well, as long as if you're not enjoying yourself, you don't take your non-enjoyment and shove it in other peoples face, it's all cool.

What the other players do in the game ultimately don't have any effect on how you enjoy your stay around here.

Variety is the spice of life <3

Khelly wrote:

You're not actually making much sense and being hilariously passive aggressive and your second sentence seems kind of hypocritical.

Me? But it's true, as far as I can tell. If you want a better explanation then point out what doesn't make sense so I can fix it.

I'm not saying DT is overweighted at a high level: It isn't. Daidai is about as far as DT farm goes. You go much further than that and the effort required starts to line up with the PP rewarded, as far as I can tell.

But it's very much true that when -most- people discuss DT, -in the context of them playing it- they're probably going to be talking about the farm maps such as Koigokoro, Daidai, Setting Sail, and the rest, (Or even just 4modding easies) because a large majority of the community only plays at a mid to low level.

Last I checked, Setting Sail HDDT SS gives about the same PP as Gangsta nomod SS

That's an entire star difference for very similar PP gain.

Reset-'s signature wrote:

this game is hard

rrtyui wrote:

prease enjoy gemu

i don't think new players headed the wrong way though unless they try to make the game more challenging by changing playstyle that seems cool but hard at the same time instead of challenging on higher difficulty (anyone remembers the double stylus touchscreen guy who said that he could do better with mouse but insist on using double stylus)
mods are a part of the game and they can be used anytime to enhance your osu experience
that being said i think dt is the worst mod in the game because it ruins songs
though i would say daidai genome gets better and/or cuter after dt

Mahogany wrote:

Khelly wrote:

You're not actually making much sense and being hilariously passive aggressive and your second sentence seems kind of hypocritical.

Me?

No, not you. The singaporean

The single correct answer to this entire thread

I'm no good at theology, but sometimes I wonder if people are building religions around the mods they use in osu!. I remember one time not too long where I was in a multiplayer lobby and I casually mentioned that I don't like DT because I feel like it ruins the music more often than not, and [rank 200-ish guy] and his girlfriend(??) got lit up and went off on me in ways that probably would warrant a silence if I'd cared to report them.

I like to play HR (and I don't claim to be good at it; I just like to play it!), but I'm perfectly cool with it if anyone wants to tell me how much it trashes the beatmap author's intended spirit of their maps. As far as Azer's video is concerned, I get the impression that he expressed his opinions in a very concise, well-spoken way that lacks any malice whatsoever. I think it is outright awkward if anyone feels like it was a personal attack against them for their decisions to play particular mods or maps in osu!, and that applies to the whole discussion about farm maps etc.

I agree with everything he said in his video btw! The most important part was at the end: plz enjoy game. :3

Kzuma wrote:

I'm no good at theology, but sometimes I wonder if people are building religions around the mods they use in osu!. I remember one time not too long where I was in a multiplayer lobby and I casually mentioned that I don't like DT because I feel like it ruins the music more often than not, and [rank 200-ish guy] and his girlfriend(??) got lit up and went off on me in ways that probably would warrant a silence if I'd cared to report them.

i think some people take this game too seriously

Azer talking about pp farming...

I can't even take this video seriously.

Mikakage wrote:

Azer talking about pp farming...

I can't even take this video seriously.

Hello,

I don't mean to be rude, but can you elaborate about what part of Azer's video you can't take seriously? His opinions seem pretty truthful to me. Whether or not he abuses the current pp system to earn ranks doesn't invalidate that. He seems like the type of person who just plays what he enjoys and, even if he didn't, I don't think it should detract from the heartfelt statements he made in his video!

It'd just be nice to understand what you don't like about what he said! Maybe it'd make for some more interesting conversation about the video (which is the topic) rather than turning the thread into a pro/anti Azer flamewar.

Kzuma wrote:

Mikakage wrote:

Azer talking about pp farming...

I can't even take this video seriously.

Hello,

I don't mean to be rude, but can you elaborate about what part of Azer's video you can't take seriously? His opinions seem pretty truthful to me. Whether or not he abuses the current pp system to earn ranks doesn't invalidate that. He seems like the type of person who just plays what he enjoys and, even if he didn't, I don't think it should detract from the heartfelt statements he made in his video!

It'd just be nice to understand what you don't like about what he said! Maybe it'd make for some more interesting conversation about the video (which is the topic) rather than turning the thread into a pro/anti Azer flamewar.

Recently he is much less pp oriented than he was a few months ago, and he said he started to enjoy the game more after he changed his mindset.

But for a good while he was that guy who picked the maps to play with HDHR for the pp potential of the maps and spent hours retrying the same map over and over to get these points, sometimes even replaying said maps for increasing his accuracy because with HR, a small increase in accuracy means a lot for the pp system. He still does this from time to time. And said maps with HDHR (with exceptions, of course, United is a sick score for example) are easier than what thelewa had to do to get pp back in early 2014, because like he said, the meta changed and fat pp maps for HR players were made.

Looking at the top 50 right now, he is probably the biggest "farmer" there considering the level of the players and the maps on his top performance compared to the others. If you watch the "Top 20 players of 2014" video on youtube it pretty much shows how his mindset was very pp oriented as almost all of his commentary in that video is talking about rankings and pp.

He is a great player, he is one of the player who evolved very fast in this game and got to the top ranks, his reading and skills are well rounded, but his ranking came from this farming.

And I just find it hilarious that from all people, he was the one to make this video.

P.S. - DT gets too much hate.

Mahogany wrote:

Setting Sail, Pony Maps, This map: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/551348?m=0

Pretty much any OD8 AR8 map around 3.5* will be massive farm

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/23975

Try others from 2011 and before that too.

Mikakage wrote:

Azer talking about pp farming...

I can't even take this video seriously.

top 100 is about who can farm pp faster, nothing else

I like map play all map

KukiMonster wrote:

I like map play all map

I like very nice map plz enjoy map

why to not farm DT, play ar10 and have fun
pls enjoy the game

Khelly wrote:

Mahogany wrote:

Me?

No, not you. The singaporean

I wasnt sure xd

Mahogany wrote:

I wasnt sure xd

If someone is wasting your time u shd just ignore that person

If Azer is referring to how broken I am...

He's probably right. But I enjoy it, so why does that make the game bad?

Those top tier players who can play anything anymod are the best out there
It's just the audience gets the wrong idea because of the way PP works

This is literally what I have been saying for the past year, and everyone just tells me to shut the fuck up.

tldr Bauxe and Azer are right, you all suck and everyone should let Gameplay & Rankings die like the shithole it is.

Kert wrote:

Those top tier players who can play anything anymod are the best out there
It's just the audience gets the wrong idea because of the way PP works

this >:)

Bauxe wrote:

This is literally what I have been saying for the past year, and everyone just tells me to shut the fuck up.

A lot of people have been saying this for years. It's just a shitfest whenever it gets mentioned so most people just avoid the conversation.

Momiji wrote:

plz enjoy game

Bauxe wrote:

This is literally what I have been saying for the past year, and everyone just tells me to shut the fuck up.

Pretty sure those ppl are just thick headed people who will never accept a different opinion. Time is precious so dont even bother with them. Trying to get to them is a waste of time.

No love for us plebs.

Well..

To put it in a way.. People who are true to themselves normally get maps/songs they previously liked before or maybe found a song they like and decide to play it but on the other hand... those pesky PP hunters are the ones that influence and cause trouble to others. You cant sack up "new players" in one category. There are different types of new players and it depends on what drew them to the game/what they wanted to accomplish from the beginning.

I agree that players are heading towards the wrong way because of the fact that they are IMPATIENT. They rush everything, they want to be good at something in just a *swoosh*. They become intimidated by these awesome plays people upload (ex. Cookiezi, FunOrange, etc) and they want to get to that level like, now. What most people don't understand is that you have to put a limit to how hard your "practice" gets (ex. Learning AR10 before learning AR9).

Heck I cant even properly read AR10.

On the other hand there are players who watched a top play video and instead of focusing on the tremendous amount of skill the player has, he liked the song he was hearing. This player just plays songs he likes and at a difficulty that is appropriate. If it becomes too easy for this player, he tries to find a new map/song, but only ones that he would grow interest of (This is my case at least, I only play songs that I like).

So if I want to wrap this up;
You cant sack New Players into one category because people have different mindsets. The majority of new players are indeed going the wrong way because they become impatient when it comes down to improving their skills and the fact that they are being intimidated by "godly plays" just adds more fuel to the impatiences (Some go as far as to PP farm just to be able to brag that they are high rank). The minority of the new players are the ones who are actually enjoying the game and having fun as they play, these people don't take anything that has to do with ranks seriously.

The best is of course the middle of all that if you want to both have fun and improve. Try to put yourself there and it should fix itself (As in a variation of mostly playing maps that you know you will enjoy but also a slice of maps that might challenge you but is still within your music taste). Unfriend Tillerino and start looking for songs ^^

didn't watch all, it was too long

Azer is probably mad cuz he hasn't made much pp lately.

Why is it so hard to understand that people enjoy progress? People enjoy farming pp. Why can't they enjoy progressing skill/pp-wise?

Let's just accept that people are different. And that a pretty good bunch of players actually likes competitiveness. (wow! ikr!)

Infevo wrote:

Why is it so hard to understand that people enjoy progress? People enjoy farming pp. Why can't they enjoy progressing skill/pp-wise?

Let's just accept that people are different. And that a pretty good bunch of players actually likes competitiveness. (wow! ikr!)

It's that they only get better at the pp-relevant components of the game.
There is no good reading required if you're picking the correct maps and you also don't have to get good at rhythms as there are plenty of jumpy 1/2 circle-slider-spam-tvsize-maps without any blueticks to fulfill your pp-needs.
I like the competition too, easily noticeable by the farm on my top ranks but people who only go down this road will have a hard time playing this game as a rhythm game later on as rhythmic understanding isn't rewarded and as a result not acquired by these players.

The further a player proceeds in rank the more important accuracy will become to keep up with progressing. So I'd second guess this point...

And there are numerous players who progress just fine simply by farming pp.

Why are people even bothered by this? I don't see any reason to keep preaching down on other players for their preferences if oneself in fact _enjoys the game_. At this point everything should just be fine.

Stop telling others _how_ to enjoy this game!