Khelly wrote:

Endaris wrote:

Well, you obviously fell into the newb-trap to think tablet is better than mouse. Which is a very debatable thesis and I disagree with it.
Aside from that switching the device always puts you backwards as a part of what you improved already gets lost(your skill with mouse).
Tablet has its own difficulties.

Always? I'd beg to differ.

Khelly you had no mouse skills to begin with

LexiiTheGoddess wrote:

Was expecting nicer responses... but, thanks anyways

♥♥♥

LexiiTheGoddess wrote:

Was expecting nicer responses... but, thanks anyways

The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Khelly you had no mouse skills to begin with

And yet OP had even less

tablet is better than mouse. Which is a very debatable thesis and I disagree with it.

Tablet IS BETTER than mouse, mainly becouse of absolute tracking which is primary advantage.

Was expecting nicer responses... but, thanks anyways

But you got good answers, we cannot come into your home, take your hand and show how to use tablet.
Make your journey more interesting by discovering things ^^

Im sorry for sounding so stupid. Should of known i'd get "play more"

LexiiTheGoddess wrote:

Im sorry for sounding so stupid. Should of known i'd get "play more"

because that's all there is to it. all you need to do is play more so you can get used to your tablet. don't get discouraged.

[Taiga] wrote:

tablet is better than mouse. Which is a very debatable thesis and I disagree with it.

Tablet IS BETTER than mouse, mainly becouse of absolute tracking which is primary advantage.

Was expecting nicer responses... but, thanks anyways

But you got good answers, we cannot come into your home, take your hand and show how to use tablet.
Make your journey more interesting by discovering things ^^

Lighter weight is another one.
High bpm jumps are hard with a dense mouse

[Taiga] wrote:

tablet is better than mouse. Which is a very debatable thesis and I disagree with it.

Tablet IS BETTER than mouse, mainly becouse of absolute tracking which is primary advantage.

You're a fucking idiot.

Bauxe wrote:

[Taiga] wrote:

Tablet IS BETTER than mouse, mainly becouse of absolute tracking which is primary advantage.

You're a fucking idiot.

cmon bauxe you actually agree with him in a way don't you :^)
assuming no preference and equal proficiency with both, a player would perform better with a tablet because of the lack of minor technical obstacles mouse players have to deal with.
though i would never say tablet is simply better ;o

you need to start playing more HDDTHR and then try to learn FL when your a 5 digit rank

Momiji wrote:

cmon bauxe you actually agree with him in a way don't you :^)

He is referring to the "very debatable thesis" the other guy wrote but misquoted lmao

LexiiTheGoddess wrote:

Was expecting nicer responses... but, thanks anyways

<3

KukiMonster wrote:

Momiji wrote:

cmon bauxe you actually agree with him in a way don't you :^)

He is referring to the "very debatable thesis" the other guy wrote but misquoted lmao

No, I wasn't.

Maybe you should try being more specific before you just try to claim what you were or weren't doing.

I quoted who I was responding to ?_? that's as specific as it gets.

Mmm, maybe I confused it because taiga took the fucking names out of the quotes for some stupid reason.

You think tablets absolute tracking isn't an advantage over mouse?

KukiMonster wrote:

LMFAO

Nioce post and also HBD in case you didnt get my skype message since you dont seem to check

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

KukiMonster wrote:

LMFAO

Nioce post and also HBD in case you didnt get my skype message since you dont seem to check

I edited my post so it's more meaningful now.

Bauxe wrote:

[Taiga] wrote:

Tablet IS BETTER than mouse, mainly becouse of absolute tracking which is primary advantage.

You're a fucking idiot.

Osu!Wiki wrote:

The biggest selling point of tablets for osu! is this absolute tracking - every other parameter such as pressure levels, tilt sensitivity, barrel rotation, etc. will have no effect on your osu! gameplay. (...)

Osu!Wiki wrote:

The biggest difference that a tablet has over a mouse is that it features absolute tracking. This means that every point on the tablet corresponds to a particular point on the screen. If you lift the pen outside of the sensitive range, then put it down on another part of the tablet, the cursor will "jump" to that location. This is opposed to mice, which rely on relative tracking.

https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Tablet_purchase

I didn't said you cannot be #1 with mouse.
Simply playing on tablet is easier which means it's better.
@Edit - if it's missinterpretation, happens, fix me then.

No mod > All
Play more it'll come. Don't ask yourself why you aren't getting better. Just have fun and it'll come subconsciously.

Playing nomod versus with mods is not even worth a debate since all what mods do is increase the difficulty of a map by a limited degree. Slapping dt+hr onto an easy beginner map just alters its difficulty parameters. It might still be easy for a beginner even with mods.

Advising to strictly and exclusively play nomod is retarded to say the least. If a player enjoys a particular map which has gotten too easy over time he should feel free to play the crap out of it with the help of dt and hr to keep it interesting.

Playing HD, EZ, FL early can even be beneficial for the overall player development.

But most and foremost I'd just play what I enjoyed most. And I might be garbage at AR10 CS5.2 and high clutter density so I'd fail all day long unless I add NF but at the end of the day I get the most enjoyment out of my plays and feel how I improve frequently enough to keep me motivated.

Mods increase difficulty in an entirely different way compared to 2 different nomod maps at different star ratings in a way that it's not even comparable.

You'll never risk losing anything by staying nomod, so it's always good advice. Mods can be reasonable for practice so long as you keep a balance and have fundamentals, but OP doesn't have good fundamentals at his current rank, so staying exclusively nomod is very good advice right now.

EZ and FL aren't very practical mods to learn. I can't say much for hidden.

At the end of the day enjoyment is key but if you want to get good then don't play stupid shit. People won't improve from spamming stuff like big black at 200k even if they enjoy it.

I think EZ is quite practical to learn early. Never misread something again. Never be excluded from playing a map due to it having too high AR.
Yes it's a niche skill but practical for nomod-gameplay and way beyond the use of FL.

[Taiga] wrote:

Osu!Wiki wrote:

The biggest selling point of tablets for osu! is this absolute tracking - every other parameter such as pressure levels, tilt sensitivity, barrel rotation, etc. will have no effect on your osu! gameplay. (...)

Osu!Wiki wrote:

The biggest difference that a tablet has over a mouse is that it features absolute tracking. This means that every point on the tablet corresponds to a particular point on the screen. If you lift the pen outside of the sensitive range, then put it down on another part of the tablet, the cursor will "jump" to that location. This is opposed to mice, which rely on relative tracking.

https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Tablet_purchase

I didn't said you cannot be #1 with mouse.
Simply playing on tablet is easier which means it's better.
@Edit - if it's missinterpretation, happens, fix me then.

No mention of lighter weight. Its easier to move a 15g pen around at high speeds than a 90g mouse

My mouse is not much heavier than my pen

Mahogany wrote:

My mouse is not much heavier than my pen

Edit: Any decent mouse with a decent sensor

Thats probs why im bad but its good enough for TF2 so i am fine

It would be nice if like any computer stores in this entire country stocked nice stuff tho

I'd love to try one of those good mice like a G400 or something because I have used nothing but this mouse for several years

Mahogany wrote:

Mods increase difficulty in an entirely different way compared to 2 different nomod maps at different star ratings in a way that it's not even comparable.

Could you please explain this?

DT increases Speed of a song/map by 50%. All parameters which are related to speed are changed accordingly in a respective way.
HR reduces CS, increases OD, increases AR and makes passing overall more difficult with low acc since drain is faster.

In no way things like distance snap or slider velocity is changed. The maps aren't altered in their fundamental functionality.

If we talk basics I think of getting a feeling for distance/time, acc, getting a feel for one's setup/sens/tablet area/latencies. Mods won't hold you back from improving at these points.

If anything then sticking to low OD will fk up your accuracy even more since you'll get used to a bigger tolerance window. Bigger circles make up for worse aim. You won't improve as effectively when you don't force yourself into more precision. Not play DT until rank x? How is someone supposed to improve on the speed department when he keeps limitting oneself to 200bpm nomod at max. Average bpm is at 180 or something afaik.

I like Niko's approach actually. I don't have the exact quote but for efficient and effective improvement he recommends playing at one's limit; maps you can barely pass. These are not particularly maps you will achieve 98%+ acc all day, are they?

Because at the level OP is playing the mods barely make any difference because they work on multipliers and the normal values of the map that he's playing are so low that the multipliers make barely any difference.

A DT easy is still ridiculously easy whereas a Hard is an entire different game.

Infevo wrote:

Mods won't hold you back from improving at these points.

They can fuck you up pretty hard, though, if you do them wrong, and you can improve by playing equivalent nomod maps just fine.

Infevo wrote:

If anything then sticking to low OD will fk up your accuracy even more since you'll get used to a bigger tolerance window.

Not quite, you just get better at that OD. You don't get "used" to a high tolerance window, you just learn to operate within it, and then you move up, and you learn to operate within an even smaller window. I don't get worse at OD9 when I play OD7.
Accuracy isn't even that good of an indication of skill.

Infevo wrote:

Bigger circles make up for worse aim. You won't improve as effectively when you don't force yourself into more precision.

Actually, I play plenty of CS4, and I can aim CS4 just fine. And that's all that matters to me right now, because all I play is CS4. I'll start caring about CS5 once I start playing HR, but for now, it's completely irrelevant to me, so what does my CS5 aiming matter?

Infevo wrote:

Not play DT until rank x? How is someone supposed to improve on the speed department when he keeps limitting oneself to 200bpm nomod at max.

By not being retarded and arbitrarily limiting what nomod maps you want to play to avoid actually trying to improve? Why would I ever play 200bpm nomods if I wanted to improve speed when I can handle 200bpm singletaps just fine? I'd play something that's on the edge of my ability, like 240bpm singletaps on Matzcore or something. If he's able to play the speed of maps he/she wants to play, then there's no actual issue and nothing that needs to be improved for the time being and the time and attention better devoted to something more urgent.

Infevo wrote:

I don't have the exact quote but for efficient and effective improvement he recommends playing at one's limit; maps you can barely pass.

That has the risk of ruining your ability to play well if you don't already have strongly developed fundamentals, which the OP doesn't.

My point is that each rank bracket will have appropriate nomod, dt, hr maps. And there are numerous of nomod maps (scarlet rose/big black e.g.) which might as well be able to mess up a lot if you play them too early.

Counteradvising against mods in general is retarded. Period.

People who keep preaching one shouldn't touch mods until rank x to me are nothing but lazy and make it too obvious they need stupid excuses to feel better about themselves. Dude, if you don't want to invest some real effort into learning something exceptionally hard don't project and force this attitude onto new players.

Developing bad habits will happen no matter what you do. Especially if you play a lot. But at the end of the day you'll at least know how to approach these habits and fix them instead of worrying all day about doing something wrong in the first place.

Fact: Setting frequent limitations will limit yourself in the long run.

Infevo wrote:

And there are numerous of nomod maps (scarlet rose/big black e.g.) which might as well be able to mess up a lot if you play them too early.

The difference being HR and DT are more deceptive and you're able to gain PP from them compared to playing shit-hard nomod maps. You don't get rewarded for spamming scarlet rose or bik blekk, but you definitely can get rewarded by HDHRDTing Easies and Normals, which encourages you to do that more.

Infevo wrote:

Counteradvising against mods in general is retarded. Period.

I heavily disagree.

Infevo wrote:

People who keep preaching one shouldn't touch mods until rank x to me are nothing but lazy and make it too obvious they need stupid excuses to feel better about themselves. Dude, if you don't want to invest some real effort into learning something exceptionally hard don't project and force this attitude this onto new players.

Uhhh, I've been trying to learn HR for a while, dude, and it's fucking difficult. I've already explained my reasons why not to play mods, and it has very little to do with my own experiences.

Infevo wrote:

Developing bad habits will happen no matter what you do.

Untrue. If you're smart about your playing, you can learn what to avoid doing.

My point is that each rank bracket will have appropriate nomod, dt, hr maps. And there are numerous of nomod maps (scarlet rose/big black e.g.) which might as well be able to mess up a lot if you play them too early.

I am kinda this guy who was "abusing" mods at low rank (~600-700pp), playing a lot of HR/HDHR becouse i was thinking "it will make me better". This ended up on screwing my progression rate which is slow now, slow as fuck becouse i still need to get rid with some bad habits and IT'S FUCKIN HARD.

Since i started spamming nomod only and stay with nomod, magicaly after removing primary bad habit which was button mashing i started progressing, my consistency went skyhigh into point where insteed of spamming map over and over to actualy pass it, i can sightread with good acc and very low amount of misses (in 90% cases just becouse i cannot stream and misses happens becouse i am too slow for them) / actualy FC on first try when map doesn't have any streams / completly weird patterns what are new to me.

By my own experience i can just say - nomod makes you better at low rank, teach you how to game works, teach you how to play and control patterns.
Oh wait, i even heared Azer recommending playing nomod only and progressing with nomod at low rank. Dunno if i can find this now in his past broadcast / it's muted becouse of twitch policy.

Till 4-digit every single HR/DT playable map is just shitty pp farm what gives you literaly zero experience and zero progress exept pp. No exeption. Everything what you need till 4-digit is ability to read AR8/AR9, being accurate on OD7/OD8. Nothing else.
You can even hit high 3-digit with nomod.

Counteradvising against mods in general is retarded. Period.

Not alerting newbs about bad habits and posibility to be skillless and complain later on becouse "3,5* ar8 od8 map too hard, cannot play it" is retarded.

People who keep preaching one shouldn't touch mods until rank x to me are nothing but lazy and make it too obvious they need stupid excuses to feel better about themselves.

You wat dude?

Dude, if you don't want to invest some real effort into learning something exceptionally hard don't project and force this attitude onto new players.

AIM - You don't need mods to train your aim, there is more than enough CS5 maps in range of 2-5* with moderate difficulty to do this. There is more than enough maps with tornado jumps / rabbit jumps / anti-jumps / squares / stars etc. to train aim. You don't need mods for this.

SPEED - Play faster maps? Simple.... After spamming a lot 180 bpm 4*+ maps and improving my scores on them into point where i started fcing them, i went into "let's try DT some ar7 becouse i am bored and want to try DT", took setting sail and fced it with 99% acc with first try becouse "this doesn't require skill, it's retardly easy, wtf, this map doesnt deserve 90pp what it gives". Reading AR7 Hard+DT 4* and reading AR9 Insane 4* is completly diffrent.

90pp for nothing, literaly for nothing = #balanced, truly skillbased map, i feel so skilled becouse i fced it.... - it was sarcasm if you didn't notice.
3.9/4* "&Z" / "Hikaru Nara" was way more difficult than this and gives same pp. I mentioned this once becouse in my opinion they are like entrance point into AR9 insane and 4* range.

ACC - Play OD7/OD8, maps on your skill level. As above, in both cases, mods gives you nothing here.

Developing bad habits will happen no matter what you do. Especially if you play a lot.

No. No. No.
There is no arguments here becouse this statment is plain idiotic.

But at the end of the day you'll at least know how to approach these habits and fix them instead of worrying all day about doing something wrong in the first place.

Took me over 5k pc to fix mashing buttons bad habit, i am still left with wrong reading technique habit which will take way more time to fix.

At least i am proud that IF i cannot hit circle becouse i am too slow, i dont hit it, simple.
If i click circle, it's accurate and planned move, not brainless mashing and hope for "lucky 300/100/50".
With 12 circles stream, i hit 6 times each button, not more and move to another circle.
With 6 kickslider stream pattern i hit both keys 3 times, no more.
By not having bad habits, it's way easier for you to see where you make mistakes, what's your main problem and what you should improve to be better.

Imo, start using DT this early won't do you any good. You should be able to play insane difficulty first before you start DT.
Because you will have the basic which will help you learn DT efficiently.

This is where I'm at atm.
Can clear 4*-4.5* star songs with 90-94.5%ish acc and 140-200ish max combo.
Lacking the consistency to carry the combo all the way through. Come to think of it, I have always had a hard time keeping combo past 300 even on way easy maps...
Any helpful advice?

Bungie2117 wrote:

This is where I'm at atm.
Can clear 4*-4.5* star songs with 90-94.5%ish acc and 140-200ish max combo.
Lacking the consistency to carry the combo all the way through. Come to think of it, I have always had a hard time keeping combo past 300 even on way easy maps...
Any helpful advice?

Play maps with star ratings you can consistently fc and work your way up.

.

Bungie2117 wrote:

This is where I'm at atm.
Can clear 4*-4.5* star songs with 90-94.5%ish acc and 140-200ish max combo.
Lacking the consistency to carry the combo all the way through. Come to think of it, I have always had a hard time keeping combo past 300 even on way easy maps...
Any helpful advice?

Play the most difficult maps you could see yourself getting a full combo on

Fair enough. I gotta play more for the most part to fix aim issues on certain patterns and sequences. Only thing about playing easier maps that I can reasonably FC is that there isn't really any. There is a wide range of difficulty for AR=8 and below maps; but now that I've made the jump to AR=9, there is mostly 4* and onwards. Nonetheless, I will push on to get better. Thanks for the replies.