forum

The All-American Rejects - It Ends Tonight

posted
Total Posts
6
Topic Starter
NewRain_old
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 11:19:03 PM

Artist: The All-American Rejects
Title: It Ends Tonight
BPM: 87.87
Filesize: 7785kb
Play Time: 04:03
Difficulties Available:
  1. Easy (1.44 stars, 205 notes)
  2. Insane (4.61 stars, 470 notes)
  3. Normal (2.49 stars, 330 notes)
Download: The All-American Rejects - It Ends Tonight
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
First beatmap!

I need some help on the timing. I cannot seem to make the timing any better than it is.

The singer seems to be offbeat at these parts:
02:34:508 - 02:37:239
02:39:971 Especially this one


Otherwise, enjoy!


Updates:
September 9, 2015 - Fine-tuned clarity of many parts, such as the beginnings of streams (Insane)
September 9, 2015 - Removed several offbeat notes and removed unfair notes behind sliders (Insane)
September 5, 2015 - Lowered drain because it was way too bloodthirsty (Insane)
September 5, 2015 - Added sounds to improve beat sensitivity
dekoe
This isn't a mod and it shouldn't be treated as one. I'm only giving you help since you're asking for it and it's your first map. I'll just point out the main problems.

It's very easy for you as a mapper to see your map as perfect and easy to play because you know when all the notes are, and when to hit them. Try looking at this from the perspective of a player that hasn't seen the map before. You'll find it impossible. It's far from perfect, and it's far from milliseconds off on the beat most of the time.

You didn't do any reading in advance when making this map. There's a lot of basics and concepts to mapping that could have easily fixed beginner flaws in your map. You can also look inside ranked maps and see what works. You can look at patterns and map designs that can help you develop a good mapping style. If you want your song to get ranked, or if you want to be a serious mapper you could at least look into researching mapping. Here's some helpful articles that are available to you straight from this site.

https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Beatmapping
https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Mapping_Techniques
https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Modding

Your BPM is 87.87 The band probably didn't make the song with this number in mind. Try 88 BPM and fix this in all difficulties while fixing the offset to match. This messes up the timing and makes the whole song and rhythm feel awkward. This is the first thing you should always get right when making a map.

You mapped to the vocals instead of the beat of the song. This makes it hard for a player that hasn't heard the song before to play it.

All of the difficulties feel very linear and also random at times. You're making symmetrical/mirrored patterns or straight line sliders that lead into click-to-the-vocals notes. The cycle just repeats itself throughout all difficulties.

Easy

The whole map goes offbeat around 30 seconds in. You're placing notes in odd places in relation to the BPM you set just to try to match up to the vocals.
00:34:842 (2)
00:41:499 (3)

Normal and Insane
Both of these difficulties are relatively the same in terms of the way you mapped them. Normal is watered down heavily compared to insane, which explains the three star difficulty gap you created between the two.

Both difficulties are a catastrophe.
All you did was put a beat on every note while drawing patterns like ladders, flowers, staircases and fancy sliders. You also made super precise straight line jumps across the entire map for most of it.

I get that you're trying to make the map hard but it's just ridiculous. It's a mess. It's nearly impossible to read. You have notes that come in at unexpected times because you are putting notes that you expect the player to be able to hit on the offbeats of your 1/4 beat snap divisor map.

You're using the most precise grid that is available which is probably unnecessary considering how you're placing notes wherever you want with no regards to flow. A more precise grid doesn't necessarily make the map harder. It makes it harder to try and play your map while trying to get the flow of it down as well.

You're hiding notes and sliders behind sliders. You're making imperfect rectangles. There is no flow, you just mapped in random directions and hoped that the player could understand you.



I understand that this is your first time but do not take criticism as an attack to you, especially when you ask for it. If you're serious about learning how to map, then you should re-do the whole map after looking at how to map. If you made this for fun just to share with others, then you don't need to worry about mapping for ranking.
Topic Starter
NewRain_old
Thank you for your swift response. I realize that I was full of myself, and I have a lot to learn to make beatmaps. However, since I have spent so much time making this map, I don't think I have the motivation to redo all of my maps. At the very least, however, I do wish to get the BPM right. I have considered that the band would probably not make an awkward BPM, but 87 is too slow, and 88 is too fast. You can test it yourself; it really is like that. I have spent literally hours trying to find the correct timing, and what you see is the closest I've ever gotten. If you could, do you think you could help find the exact BPM and offset for this song?

Also, I used the most precise grid to make my straight lines more accurate. I didn't think of straight lines as a bad thing, so, next time, I'll know. I'm actually a perfectionist, but I realize that I just don't notice many of the imperfections. Indeed I'm trying to match the vocals because I personally find it more appealing that way, but I see that it isn't a great tool to map. Where is the imperfect rectangle, by the way? I want to fix the obvious problems. (Yes, 00:41:499 (3) is off, and I will fix that. However, in terms of matching vocals, 00:34:842 (2) can be controversial depending on whether you consider the "s" or the "t" as the start of the note. Of course, I chose the latter, but I can change that if you still think that it is incorrect.)

Might be pointless to mention, but I mapped Easy and Normal over a year ago, but I never submitted them. I recently made Insane (along with some parallel revisions for Easy and Normal) and submitted the others just because they're already there, so I guess I'm more attached to Insane? :roll: Hopefully, that isn't too bad of a thing to feel.

At this point, I understand that my maps will not be ranked, but I do want to have fun with them (like a way to pass time with friends and such). :) Again, I appreciate your response!

P.S. Maybe you could include a few things I did well? :) Negative feedback is necessary, and I will respect them, but positive feedback is nice, too. :P
Topic Starter
NewRain_old
dekoe, I have thought a lot of what you have written, and I have come to believe that you have not actually made a lot of constructive criticism.

"It's far from perfect, and it's far from milliseconds off on the beat most of the time. "
I'm quite positive that I've gotten the BPM correct to at least 1 or 2 milliseconds off. The offset could be a few off the actual beat, hence my request for help on that specifically.

"You didn't do any reading in advance when making this map. There's a lot of basics and concepts to mapping that could have easily fixed beginner flaws in your map."
I only see this as flavor text for your argument. I would like some examples of these "beginner flaws" in my map. I'm not saying there aren't, but if there are, I would like specific examples to back up your point.

"Your BPM is 87.87 The band probably didn't make the song with this number in mind. Try 88 BPM and fix this in all difficulties while fixing the offset to match. This messes up the timing and makes the whole song and rhythm feel awkward."
Like my previous post, I mentioned that the BPM I found is the most accurate that I could sense. If you feel that the BPM really is off, please give me examples of places where the current beat and the actual beat become noticeably off (besides the two you mentioned before). At the very least, I doubt that I got the BPM off by a whopping 130 milliseconds.

"You mapped to the vocals instead of the beat of the song. This makes it hard for a player that hasn't heard the song before to play it."
I have indeed mostly mapped to the vocals, but I cannot find anything that says that I cannot do this. In fact, I'm not sure why you're implying that it must only be mapped to the beat of the song (if you mean drums and such). As far as I know, not all beatmaps have to be sight readable upon the first time hearing the song.

"All of the difficulties feel very linear and also random at times."
Linear and random mean completely different things. I would like some examples to express your point as I do not understand what you are trying to convey.

"You're making symmetrical/mirrored patterns or straight line sliders that lead into click-to-the-vocals notes. The cycle just repeats itself throughout all difficulties."
I tend to like symmetrical and mirrored patterns because they are nice to look at. If you can find a source that says that symmetry is bad to use, then please do show me. Your "click-to-the-vocals notes" comment is true, but I have addressed this earlier.

"The whole map goes offbeat around 30 seconds in. You're placing notes in odd places in relation to the BPM you set just to try to match up to the vocals."
This is when I felt your exaggeration. Indeed those two points you listed were controversial (and I won't deny that the first one is legitimately off). However, "the whole map" doesn't go offbeat. This makes me feel like you stumbled across those couple of errors, and assumed the whole map was off without actually testing the notes.

"Both of these difficulties are relatively the same in terms of the way you mapped them."
I felt some hypocrisy here. You said that I need to "develop a good mapping style," but I apparently cannot map with the same style? Anyway, I actually do not see how the two are "relatively the same," especially given the fact that these difficulties were mapped over a year apart. Of course, please keep in mind that the Normal and Insane difficulties are for the same song.

"All you did was put a beat on every note while drawing patterns like ladders, flowers, staircases and fancy sliders. You also made super precise straight line jumps across the entire map for most of it."
I actually do not understand why all of this is bad. osu! is pretty, and I'm simply making an effort to make the map pretty. However, I will take this under consideration.

"It's nearly impossible to read. You have notes that come in at unexpected times because you are putting notes that you expect the player to be able to hit on the offbeats of your 1/4 beat snap divisor map."
This one, I will not deny. You are correct, and I will definitely change it so that this map is easier to read. I have asked opinions of others, and they mentioned that I should delete some of the offbeat notes, which I will. I will also emphasize when streams will occur, and I will unhide some notes behind sliders.

"You're using the most precise grid that is available which is probably unnecessary considering how you're placing notes wherever you want with no regards to flow. A more precise grid doesn't necessarily make the map harder. It makes it harder to try and play your map while trying to get the flow of it down as well."
I am a perfectionist, and I wanted some of the notes to be perfectly diagonal from each other (45 degrees), but at one point, the 2nd most precise grid didn't cut it. Hence, I used the most precise grid. I honestly do not understand why grid precision is negatively correlated with flow. Also, your comment about my "placing notes wherever I want" is a bit extreme. I will admit that not 100% of the map is mapped with a clear idea, but it is most certainly not just placing random notes. For example, I highlighted parts when he sings "the wall is breathing" and "the weight is lifted," and I placed spinners when he sings "unweaving" (Insane). I take offense to your comment because I actually put at least a little bit of thought into my Insane beatmap.

"You're hiding notes and sliders behind sliders. You're making imperfect rectangles. There is no flow, you just mapped in random directions and hoped that the player could understand you."
You make a good point about hiding notes, and I will address them like I said before. I will remove the notes behind sliders because I realize that it is purely unfair (Insane). However, the sliders behind sliders should be fine because you can actually see them (Normal).

"I understand that this is your first time but do not take criticism as an attack to you, especially when you ask for it."
I asked help on specifically BPM, but I appreciate that you took the time to take a look at everything else. However, I feel like you just skimmed through my maps and gave me vague comments about my beatmap. You only gave me 2 examples of errors (1 of which should be fine), and much of the rest was pretty much slander and redundancy rather than constructive criticism.

I should clarify - I do not mean to dismiss everything you have mentioned. Everything you have said, opinionated or not, basically points to one fact: my map needs work. You have complaints because my beatmaps can be better, and I will never deny that.

I will continuously update my beatmaps to the best of my ability, and I will consider revision for every specific criticism. Again, thank you for your time!
Alone Daughtry
OH MU GOD, it is awesome :3

¡Many Thanks for uploading this song!
Surono
did I read . , even my engrish bruken. i catn dotaae daat adwawkfb alwhaf awgagajncm .e,w
BanchoBot
This modding thread has been migrated to the new "modding discussions" system. Please make sure to re-post any existing (and unresolved) efforts to the new system as required.
Please sign in to reply.

New reply