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kradness&Reol - Remote Control

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Deif
Apart of the adressed issues, why did you use a negative offset for your beatmap? It should be 1132 instead. It could've get DQ'd only for that anyway.

[Farewell]
  1. 00:09:132 (1) - Not necessary to have that new combo at all.
  2. 00:58:404 (3,4) - Quite surprised about the slider (3) having such a great distance, where other similar patterns used a hyperdash instead.
  3. 01:00:768 (1,2) - On the other hand, I don't understand why you used a 3/4 slider and a hyperdash for this part instead, where neither the music nor the vocals are intense enough for them. If you wanna follow the vocals, make (1) a 1/2 slider instead.
  4. 01:31:132 (1) - I agree with Kurokami that this slider doesn't give the intensity the song offers and therefore 2 circles with a rather big distance is the best option. Who cares about the symmetry with the next slider (2)?
  5. 01:36:768 (5) - I'd go for a horizontal slider on this one to break the monotony with the 3/4 sliders and let the player know there's something different coming up. Moving the end to the right would be the best option in my opinion.
  6. 01:38:404 (1,2) - I believe those sliders are just misplaced in the timeline, since they don't go with the vocals at all. There should be a single note at 01:38:404 - to face the next sentence of the vocals at 01:38:586 - , so you should theoretically move those sliders 1/2 ahead so they fit with the melody: http://puu.sh/nPXyE/1b5fdefc92.jpg
  7. 01:41:677 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - I also agree with Kurokami on this one since the strongest jumps aren't placed according to the intensity of the vocals. This is an example on how could you rearrange those notes: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4771657
  8. 01:47:313 (1) - Move this slider more to the right, please. The cymbals deserve at least a dash for this transition.
  9. 01:48:222 (1) - That NC doesn't look necessary either and could be removed.
  10. 01:51:950 (2,3) - No hyperdash for those notes, as you did with 01:49:041 (2,3) - and 01:50:495 (2,3) - ?
  11. 02:36:041 - and 02:36:768 - Use the custom whistle instead. That hitsound is pretty much out of place there.
  12. 02:40:586 (1) - The usage of that 1/8 kick-slider isn't justified by the music at all.
  13. 02:52:586 (5,6,7,8,1) - Same here. Don't add beats where they don't even belong at.
  14. 02:55:313 (4) - There was a similar example before where the tone of the vocals changed as well. This slider should be horizontal as well to add some movement. Moving the beginning of it to the left and keeping the end where it is sounds better.
  15. 02:58:768 (2) - I sorta expected a rather extreme jump with that scream lol.
  16. 04:22:132 (3) - That beat in the blue tick isn't that noticeable. I'd recommend you to go with the option of keeping just the 1/1 ones for those hyperjumps, which would make you avoid this slider and placing a circle at 04:22:223 - instead.
[]
See this DQ as an opportunity to get your difficulty improved. Ranting in other social media or criticising a ranking system you were part of won't help anybody.

Deleted? Are you pulling my leg?
Topic Starter
Taeyang

Deif wrote:

Apart of the adressed issues, why did you use a negative offset for your beatmap? It should be 1132 instead. It could've get DQ'd only for that anyway.

??
Doyak
idk, does negative offset make any problem? I did see some ranked maps have negative offset but they don't seem affect the gameplay at all.
Deif
There's literally nothing at all at -1777. Negative offsets are nonsense and should be avoided, moreover having this song where you can easily move it to the 1st beat, which is also matched well with the metronome at 1132.
Doyak
Yeah, in this case it's more logical to use 1132 offset, but I mean in general. Some songs have leading beats which don't start on a downbeat but like 3rd/4th beats. Is it still a bad idea to use negative offset to put it on an 'invisible' downbeat? I'm just wondering.
Topic Starter
Taeyang

Deif wrote:

There's literally nothing at all at -1777. Negative offsets are nonsense and should be avoided, moreover having this song where you can easily move it to the 1st beat, which is also matched well with the metronome at 1132.
Can you explain why -1777 offset decreases the quality in detail? I'm a newbie mapper...

Changing offset often results in 1~3ms unsnap of greenlines
Manually changing those greenlines to get snapped is a waste of time than just keeping the negative offset
Deif
That's called an anacrusis, or just the introduction of the song with some beats. For those cases it'd be acceptable to leave those notes at the left side of the 1st timing section, as it's done in some other maps. The 1st timing section should rather start where the main downbeat occurs.

Taeyang wrote:

Can you explain why -1777 offset decreases the quality in detail? I'm a newbie mapper...
It doesn't decrease the quality per se but it's just a wrong placement of the 1st offset. Why would you rather use a negative offset to start the metronome 1 stanza before it has to do? Just to leave it blank?
Doyak
I guess the reason Charles suggested negative offset is because 00:01:132 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - (in std diff) are the 'leading' beats before the actual music starts. You see there are only 2 stanzas for those. If you zoom it out, the music has 4 stanzas as a 'set', so using that negative offset actually makes it better to fit with the musical theory. This affects to the gameplay, as you would hear the cymbal sound better with Nightcore mod (wonder if anyone would even try it but anyway).
Sonnyc
Offset is related to music theory...? :<
Doyak

Sonnyc wrote:

Offset is related to music theory...? :<
Only for Nightcore mod, as I stated
Deif
The Nightcore mod shouldn't be a decisive factor for such offset placement. Only the time signature (metronome) and placing the 1st downbeat with precision is what timing should follow.
Doyak
But well, isn't it stereotyped? If something that's illogical can make the gameplay better, why not use it? Using 'wrong' offset has zero effects on gameplay anyway.
Kurokami
How does using negative offset makes anything better? You shouldn't start running 10 sec earlier on a race either. I have zero idea why Charles suggested negative offset but it shouldn't be used in any case. There are no composer in the word who is making a music based on negative offset because that is just not exist. Every song has a positive offset and in order to rank a map the correct timing needs to be used which based on the correct offset. Just because it has "some" effect on a mod, that not justifies the usage of it.
Doyak
Let's ask Charles for the reason then
Anyway, it's different than starting a race 10s earlier because you don't start playing the map 10s earlier even if the map's offset is -10000. I want to know about what 'actual problem' that a negative offset can cause. All notes are still snapped correctly and players would still play the exactly same map. If that's a real 'problem' which should NOT be ranked, then let's discuss and add it on the RC, but I want to know the reason. Just only because that's not where the first note is doesn't make sense to me.
Natsu
tbh if we gonna be picky with offset then the correct one should be 00:04:041 (1) - as you said 00:01:132 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - is part of an anacrusis and not the actually ¨music start¨ this song is divide in 4 osu measures, 00:01:132 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - this just take 2 of them which make 00:04:041 (1) - the third one (should be the first of the 4 measures set).
osu! also have nightcore mod as well, which work better with the current offset, if the current offset work better with osu and their mods, also with the menu thing (dont remember the name lol), why change it? even the music is divided better with the current timing.
Some users love nightcore mod, if you want to ruin their experience with it then change it (even not much people will DT this map, this will apply to other maps with the same anacrusis case). Fixing something that isn't broken to make it broken at something else isn't right imo.
Charles445
Okay, listen up.

The song is in 4/4.

The first "beat of the song" is at 00:04:041 - . This is the start of the first pack of 4 measures. This only matters because of nightcore, really.
00:09:859 - Is where nightcore would add a finish if the offset was 4041.

The mapper is placing inheriting sections before 4041, though, and inheriting sections can NOT be placed before timing sections. This will cause the map to fail to load.

So the timing section must appear before the inheriting sections. In order to maintain compatibility with nightcore mode, the timing section can simply be placed 4 big white ticks back from the true start, in this case -1777.


I was given a load of shit on my Ergosphere set for this exact reason. That's why it has a negative offset.

GOOD DAY
Kurokami
I would like to avoid using a mod as a reason to use something which makes no sense. But since osu! can't handle inheriting points before the first timing point I can accept it.
ac8129464363
Why would you avoid using a mod as reason to use something that doesn't affect gameplay? It makes the game look buggy and weird when you have maps flying around that don't support the game's own features.

If you can resolve this so easily through such a simple solution like that I don't see why you wouldn't use it.
Charles445
Mod compatibility isn't a requirement, just a nice bonus and an added level of polish to a set.

It's why a lot of mappers make sure their map is playable on Hard Rock / adjust things for Hidden... maybe even tweak some patterns for CTB (very rare but it has happened).


EDIT: Here's an example... https://osu.ppy.sh/s/17721
This map has clear pattern changes to make it more interesting in CTB.
Deif
You learn something new everyday, huh? Thanks for the brief explanation. That'll make me see setting the first line with other perspective in the future!

A pity you decided to delete the CtB diff. It's in the end a mapper's decision, but yet a lost to the players we enjoy this song and map.

Good luck with the requalification process!

PD: Cleaned the thread a bit. If you have nothing to add that could help the mapper, don't even bother posting here.
Affirmation
원래 디퀄나면 스레드 난리나는건가...?
chainpullz

Charles445 wrote:

The mapper is placing inheriting sections before 4041, though, and inheriting sections can NOT be placed before timing sections. This will cause the map to fail to load.

So the timing section must appear before the inheriting sections. In order to maintain compatibility with nightcore mode, the timing section can simply be placed 4 big white ticks back from the true start, in this case -1777.
You'd think this would be common sense hehehe.

If you know anything about metronomes you'd know they don't start on anything but a downbeat. That is, when you play with a metronome you always have to start it and then sync your playing to the metronome, not the other way around. In that sense, negative offsets actually make a lot more sense than positive offsets tbh.
HabiHolic
ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 리퀄되길바랄게요
Topic Starter
Taeyang
ㅁㄴㅇㄹ
Mint
No CTB so... still good?
neonat
using one whole sentence of a lyrics isn't really appropriate for a difficulty name, no matter how 'relevant' you think it is. Further more it is 16 whole syllables. That stanza isn't the main prominent feature in the song either.
MBomb

neonat wrote:

using one whole sentence of a lyrics isn't really appropriate for a difficulty name, no matter how 'relevant' you think it is. Further more it is 16 whole syllables. That stanza isn't the main prominent feature in the song either.
I have to agree with this.
Topic Starter
Taeyang

neonat wrote:

using one whole sentence of a lyrics isn't really appropriate for a difficulty name, no matter how 'relevant' you think it is. Further more it is 16 whole syllables. That stanza isn't the main prominent feature in the song either.
nah i'll keep on this diff name because fill better to me
but if i find better one, i'll change :3
Thanks suggest for my map :)
ztrot
A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set. The mapset's hardest difficulty may use an appropriate custom difficulty name, unrelated to a username. Mapsets may also use a complete set of custom difficulty names that clearly indicate their level of difficulty to the player. Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming.

So the problem here is the name you have chosen isn't really appropriate, I mean I get the idea you had coming into this. But think of someone that has never heard this song or has no relation to the content, it just looks like a jumbled mess. I think to compromise you could do something like A B START! or maybe something like Max control! These names at least give a bit of insight to how hard the map might be tbh the 2nd one I mentioned is the better of the two the 1st one is pretty lax but I want to try and help keep your vision.
Mint
While I can definitely see why people think such a long difficulty name isn't appropriate, I didn't want to force this on the mapper - as it DOES relate to the song.

I can't fully agree with the point 'it doesn't indicate the songs' difficulty' tho... I doubt 'Stardust', 'DREAMER', 'STAR PLATINUM', or any other difficulty like that indicates the map's actual difficulty at all (considering the player knows nothing about the song / the songs background). It's even stated in the rule itself. 'A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set.'. I hope people won't actually consider this as an unrankable issue, if it doesn't 100% indicate the maps' actual difficulty.

However, that people can view the length as inappropriate I can accept, so if it gets changed after all, feel free to call me back again!
ztrot
Yeah there isn't any hard feelings with this I just think it might be a good idea not to make the name so large, it doesn't break anything atm but we are simply asking if it is possible that the creator please change it to something with a bit more meaning and a little less longer on the size, there isn't anything that legit says he can not do this, but really it just feels out of place and over sized it is the lyrics in the song, I just don't think that is a good idea imo, like if I mapped a song from sonic adventure 2 namely city escape, I wouldn't name the diff Rolling around at the speed of sound got places to go got to follow my rainbow!
Topic Starter
Taeyang
I think the difficulty name should only be related to the song.
Regardless of the length, like there's no 'the best' way to map something, I think there's no 'the best' way to name a difficulty.
Of course a simple difficulty name is nice,
but I hoped people would feel the rhythm by listening the several-time-repeated lyrics from 00:04:041 (1) - to 00:38:950 (1) -
But since many people are suggesting and consider this negative, I'll change it.

I loved that "Max Control!" that ztrot recommended, so I'll change to it. :D
Doyak

Taeyang wrote:

I think the difficulty name should only be related to the song.
Regardless of the length, like there's no 'the best' way to map something, I think there's no 'the best' way to name a difficulty.
Of course a simple difficulty name is nice,
but I hoped people would feel the rhythm by listening the several-time-repeated lyrics from 00:04:041 (1) - to 00:38:950 (1) -
But since many people are suggesting and consider this negative, I'll change it.

I loved that "Max Control!" that ztrot recommended, so I'll change to it. :D
Translated by me
CLSW
Don't forget to remove me and spectator from tags.
Topic Starter
Taeyang

CLSW wrote:

Don't forget to remove me and spectator from tags.
oops XD
Tag,Unused hitsounds removed
Enon
매핑도 어려운데 영어는 더 어렵네요

보다가 슥슥 넘겼다
Albatro
무사히 잘 넘어가나 했더니 결국...ㄷㄷ 아쉽네요 전 뭔가 색다른 난이도 명을 좋아 하는데 말이죠
Equim
Can you at least leave CLSW a chance to say farewell relievedly? ;_;
Yuii-
Could you add the CtB difficulty in the description? Someone will like to try it out even if it's not going for qualify!
Topic Starter
Taeyang

Yuii- wrote:

Could you add the CtB difficulty in the description? Someone will like to try it out even if it's not going for qualify!
I already persuaded him several times,even now
But he don't want
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