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senya - Shissou Suru Kanashimi no Naka de

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Satellite
rebubbled
Sonnyc
Will take care of this, possible in a few days or this weekend.
Endaris
Hi, some random brief feedback

Insane
  1. 01:30:329 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - This doesn't feel quite smooth because the switch from vocals to drums is very rapid. I would suggest changing the quint to 2 kicksliders and a circle or a slider with lowered SV that ends on 01:32:652 -
  1. 01:54:329 (3,4,5,6) - Very nice flow arrangement here to find a compromise between vocal and strings :)
  1. 01:55:103 (1,2,1,2,3,1,1,2,3) - I think the spacing doesn't fit here. The emphasis for this phrase is 01:55:103 (1,2,2,3,1,2,3) - and 01:55:684 (1,1) - are more thrown in as a fill to soften the vocal(you can't quite speak yuki with a short u because emphasis is supposed to be on it) and to get all the lyrics in. I would suggest a flow such as here:
    https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4773231
    https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4773238
    The two mentioned notes are stacked under to get a more sharp contrast in motion(gives the jumps more attention) and I think the switch between up-down and right-left jumps also represents the rhythmical shift very nicely here.
    Reoccurs at 03:09:426 (1,2,1,2,3,1,1,2,3) -
  1. 02:10:587 (1,1,2) - Spacing feels uncomfortable here, it's fairly wide if you follow the slider through and kind of lame if you don't. Since the sliderend forms a rhythmical unit together with the two following objects I think this shouldn't be a spot where such an extreme usage of slider leniency should be encouraged. You could make the initial slider less curled and blanket it with the sliderend of the following slider like this:
    https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4773270
    Flows a lot better in my opinion. Not quite the most polished solution but you should definitely experiment more with this spot!
    I would also find it very nice if 02:11:361 (2,1) - were closer to each other as there's a very noticeably pause there which the current spacing doesn't quite fit to.
    Reoccurs at 03:24:910 (1,1,2) -
  1. 02:31:103 (3,4) - This plays very awkward. If you want to follow guitar you should most certainly leave out 4 because it is very hard to read that the slider is 1/6 and I would also argue that the sliderend of the repeatslider isn't perfectly on the guitar. Based on how I hear it, I would say that the first two guitar notes are closer to each other than the second and the third. As a result I would rather map this as

    I might be wrong but definitely review this! In the Carthasis-Diff too.
  1. 02:54:716 (4,5,6) - The transition from the repeatslider to 6 doesn't flow very well. Rotating 5 by 15° is already a lot better. It is significantly harder to bring up some momentum for the quick(and non-linear) transition from 5 to 6 from a repeatslider compared to 2,3,4
  1. 03:46:587 (1,1,1,1) - The circle between the spinners kinda takes all the steam away you might put into the first spinner(=forces you to stop spinning before the corresponding sound ends). Consider replacing the first spinner with a low-SV slider to avoid thwarting the player there.

Nice diff.
Your choice to give kd or not since i've been too lazy to do a full mod.
Topic Starter
-Mo-

Endaris wrote:

Hi, some random brief feedback

Insane
  1. 01:30:329 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - This doesn't feel quite smooth because the switch from vocals to drums is very rapid. I would suggest changing the quint to 2 kicksliders and a circle or a slider with lowered SV that ends on 01:32:652 -
This one I may consider. I'll get into contact with Sonnyc before fully implementing it, just for convinience. self reminder: check the hitsounds
  1. 01:54:329 (3,4,5,6) - Very nice flow arrangement here to find a compromise between vocal and strings :)
  1. 01:55:103 (1,2,1,2,3,1,1,2,3) - I think the spacing doesn't fit here. The emphasis for this phrase is 01:55:103 (1,2,2,3,1,2,3) - and 01:55:684 (1,1) - are more thrown in as a fill to soften the vocal(you can't quite speak yuki with a short u because emphasis is supposed to be on it) and to get all the lyrics in. I would suggest a flow such as here:
    https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4773231
    https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4773238
    The two mentioned notes are stacked under to get a more sharp contrast in motion(gives the jumps more attention) and I think the switch between up-down and right-left jumps also represents the rhythmical shift very nicely here.
    Reoccurs at 03:09:426 (1,2,1,2,3,1,1,2,3) -
The spacing is already adjusted to match the emphasis in the music. 01:55:684 (1) and 01:56:458 (1) have physically smaller spacing compared to the rest of the combo to match the softer vocal notes. Although your alternative does seem to represent the music just as well, I don't see a major reason why it needs to change. The hexagon pattern is pretty appealing visual wise, and I'd rather not increase the spacing between the other notes since it's fairly extreme already.
  1. 02:10:587 (1,1,2) - Spacing feels uncomfortable here, it's fairly wide if you follow the slider through and kind of lame if you don't. Since the sliderend forms a rhythmical unit together with the two following objects I think this shouldn't be a spot where such an extreme usage of slider leniency should be encouraged. You could make the initial slider less curled and blanket it with the sliderend of the following slider like this:
    https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4773270
    Flows a lot better in my opinion. Not quite the most polished solution but you should definitely experiment more with this spot!
    I would also find it very nice if 02:11:361 (2,1) - were closer to each other as there's a very noticeably pause there which the current spacing doesn't quite fit to.
    Reoccurs at 03:24:910 (1,1,2) -
I'm not too much of a fan of your alternative here. The first slider is intentionally compact, since this section of the music is more disparate, so an unusual style of slider is appropriate. The circular movement also accompanies the vocals increasing in pitch slightly through the held note. The flow into the next two objects still roughly continutes the flow from the circular slider, and finally the spacing into the next combo is for readability, so that it doesn't get confused into the 1/3 combo.
  1. 02:31:103 (3,4) - This plays very awkward. If you want to follow guitar you should most certainly leave out 4 because it is very hard to read that the slider is 1/6 and I would also argue that the sliderend of the repeatslider isn't perfectly on the guitar. Based on how I hear it, I would say that the first two guitar notes are closer to each other than the second and the third. As a result I would rather map this as -snip-
    I might be wrong but definitely review this! In the Carthasis-Diff too.
Slowing the music down, it sounds like there there definite beats on the head of 3 and the reverse arrow, and then the guitar uses a slide to increase in pitch. For the best polarity and emphasis in the music, I'd say it's best to keep this as a reverse, and having the 4 in the white tick switches the polarity back to 1/4 and keeps emphasis on the snare drum.
  1. 02:54:716 (4,5,6) - The transition from the repeatslider to 6 doesn't flow very well. Rotating 5 by 15° is already a lot better. It is significantly harder to bring up some momentum for the quick(and non-linear) transition from 5 to 6 from a repeatslider compared to 2,3,4
I honestly don't see a problem with what it currently is, nor do I see any suitable solution or alternative from what you propose. The sharper angles and momentum changes through these three notes emphasise the stronger guitar notes quite well anyway in my opinion.
  1. 03:46:587 (1,1,1,1) - The circle between the spinners kinda takes all the steam away you might put into the first spinner(=forces you to stop spinning before the corresponding sound ends). Consider replacing the first spinner with a low-SV slider to avoid thwarting the player there.
Kind of an intended effect since this is how I feel represents this part of the music the best. I do not believe this 'thwarts' the player. A spinner feels much more suitable for these held vocals as they have mid-long in length and are loud and high pitched (high intensity). This arrangement also makes a better finale in my opinion.

Nice diff.
Your choice to give kd or not since i've been too lazy to do a full mod.
If you're going to mod a bubbled map, you should really mod the whole map in my opinion, but thanks anyway.
@Sonnyc let me IRC you. Doesn't matter.
Endaris
Hm, usually recommenting/discussing is kinda useless because mappers are pigheaded but since you bother to provide reasons, I think it won't be in vain.

Regarding the one at 02:10:587 (1,1,2) - I have to tell you that there is not circular motion due to slider leniency.
This is the spot that actually led me to even comment on this map in spite of my experience that most mappers seem to deem it as a personal insult if you mod their bubbled map without being a BN.
The tight time window between 02:10:974 - and 02:11:103 (1) - encourages abusing sliderleniency a lot.

Cursorflow with abuse of slider leniency:

Based on what you said this is undesired as there's no circular flow motion. Instead the player waits halfway into the slider because it is significantly easier to play.

I suppose what you have in mind is this:

But as mentioned, as it is right now, this flow is not encouraged.
On top of it, the cursorspeedchange from the curled slider to the 1/3 slider is very massive if you play the pattern like Auto which doesn't seem quite right either.
I tried to enforce some circular flow with my screenshot here:

I mentioned for a reason that my solution isn't polished though and I think your concerns regarding readibility of my screenshot are very valid.

I also urged you to experiment with this spot which you seem to have entirely missed though.
I still highly recommend more experimentation here.


Regarding the 1/3 slider during the guitar solo part I just want to drop the note that it is hard to identify as a 1/3 slider in the first place, therefore placing 4 on the white tick to ease getting back into polarity doesn't look like the most intuitive way to give this pattern maximum readibility cause when I playtested the map I actually hit 4 late because I couldn't identify the repeatslider as 1/3(and therefore the note after being on the whitetick) before starting the slider which left me with very little time to adjust my timing for 4.


That being said I DID actually look at the Hard/Catharsis too but found nothing that really bothered me enough to do some insignificant modding that won't affect quality on a scale big enough to justify putting myself at risk of an answer full of denials because the mapper doesn't want to pop his bubble when the second BN could qualify the map any second.
I hope my elaborations helped you understand what my actual issues with the map were. Just trying to be helpful~
Topic Starter
-Mo-
Ah, now I understand what you mean. Okay I'll see what I can do.

I don't really know what else to do for the 1/3 though that'll keep polarity in check. Your suggestion seems to use a really odd rhythm which would be even less intuitive to play. I'll try two sliders and get some feedback on it, but you could also throw more suggestions if you want.

.
Satellite
r
Sonnyc
[Normal]
  1. 01:09:813 (2) - Consider making the slider end clickable. I personally think it demands something more than a slider end.

[Hard]
  1. 00:09:813 (1,2) - Making the slider curve rate the same of these two sliders would look more organized.
  2. 00:26:845 (1,2,3) - Seems you were using a close spacing for 1/2 of 1.3x in this section which starts at 00:25:297. However these 1/2 rhythms being placed at 1.6x didn't felt organized enough.
  3. 00:42:329 (1,2) - Starting the combo from (2) feels more natural. Current (1) is following the vocal along the previous (3), and setting them in a same combo feels more organized. Also since a new instrument appears from 00:43:103, starting the combo from there accordingly would reflect the music better.
  4. 00:54:716 (1,2) - 02:02:845 (1,2) - 02:15:232 (1,2) - 03:29:
  5. 555 (1,2) - Same.
  6. 02:51:813 - Is this hitsound here intended?
  7. 03:41:942 (1,2,1) - Hope the spacing of the slider heads were consistent.

[Insane]
  1. 00:02:845 (3,4) - This rhythm doesn't suit the song since a beat does not exists at 00:03:135. Still you can try setting the volume as 5%.
  2. 01:31:490 (4,5) - Personally the flow of (3,4) didn't felt natural, considering you were using a zigzag flow previously. Consider using a ctrl+G form of both sliders?
  3. 01:56:458 (1,1) - This spacing along the combo setting feels less intuitive in reading. I'd rather recommend you to remove the combo of 01:56:651 (1), and reducing the spacing of 1/2 to assure better readability.
  4. 02:31:103 (1,2) - Maybe I guess you were following the background instrument using this snap, but I highly doubt if that sound was clear enough to use such a rhythm. Especially the transition of 02:31:361 is really vague to express as a click. Rather using 5 1/4 beat to express the drums would suit the music better.
  5. 02:52:296 (8,1) - This spacing inconsistency feels weird since it's a transition from a stream to a slider. Better make it consistent.
  6. 02:54:716 (4,5,6) - Uh the rhythm transition also feels pretty weird, but majorly, I'm not sure what this rhythm is following. Since you are using 1/4, I guess the rhythm itself is pretty related to drums. Suddenly at 02:55:006 (5,6), you seemed to partially aim to give a feeling of following to the guitar melody. However since the snap isn't accurately done along the guitar, this only felt as a weird rhythm selection. Rather focus to the drums, or use an accurate snapping.
  7. 03:10:781 (1,1) - Same as previous section.

[Catharsis]
  1. 00:43:393 (9,1) - 00:43:781 (4,1) - The beat of 00:43:877 feels stronger than the previous (1) according to the music. Having a smaller spacing didn't felt appropriate.
  2. 02:03:910 (9,1) - 02:04:297 (4,1) - Same issue.
  3. 02:31:103 (1,2) - Same with insane.
  4. 02:53:942 (1,2) - The spacing around here is pretty wide because of the 1/4 jumps. Suddenly that large spacing happens to be 1/2 instead of 1/4 here. People won't have much problem due to the ar, but for a better intuitive readability, I'd like you to ask to start to combo from 02:54:329 to discern the rhythm better.
  5. 02:55:006 (6,7) - Same with insane.
  6. 03:02:264 (4,5) - Refering from the previous similar patterns, (5) seems to be too far from the slider.
  7. 03:23:361 (1) - This beat feels pretty redundant if you are snapping to the piano sound. 1/2 would be enough.
  8. 03:30:620 (8,1) - 03:31:007 (4,1) - Same issue.

First of all, sorry for being so late.
Not bad, but I'd expect something more at the future! Let me know if you applied the mod.
Topic Starter
-Mo-

Sonnyc wrote:

[Normal]
  1. 01:09:813 (2) - Consider making the slider end clickable. I personally think it demands something more than a slider end. Fair enough.

[Hard]
  1. 00:09:813 (1,2) - Making the slider curve rate the same of these two sliders would look more organized. Alright.
  2. 00:26:845 (1,2,3) - Seems you were using a close spacing for 1/2 of 1.3x in this section which starts at 00:25:297. However these 1/2 rhythms being placed at 1.6x didn't felt organized enough. The sliders weren't supposed to stay strictly to the DS at this section, just the circles, but yeah I can see what you mean. I reduced the spacing of these.
  3. 00:42:329 (1,2) - Starting the combo from (2) feels more natural. Current (1) is following the vocal along the previous (3), and setting them in a same combo feels more organized. Also since a new instrument appears from 00:43:103, starting the combo from there accordingly would reflect the music better.
  4. 00:54:716 (1,2) - 02:02:845 (1,2) - 02:15:232 (1,2) - 03:29:555 (1,2) - Same. Makes sense.
  5. 02:51:813 - Is this hitsound here intended? Yes, it's to be consistent with the hitsounds in the higher difficulties, since I place a whistle here to make the rhythm sound a little less monotonous and to follow the guitar a little better.
  6. 03:41:942 (1,2,1) - Hope the spacing of the slider heads were consistent. Alright.

[Insane]
  1. 00:02:845 (3,4) - This rhythm doesn't suit the song since a beat does not exists at 00:03:135. Still you can try setting the volume as 5%. I mapped this way to give emphasis to the held note. I reduced the volume down.
  2. 01:31:490 (4,5) - Personally the flow of (3,4) didn't felt natural, considering you were using a zigzag flow previously. Consider using a ctrl+G form of both sliders? Yeah, that plays a lot better.
  3. 01:56:458 (1,1) - This spacing along the combo setting feels less intuitive in reading. I'd rather recommend you to remove the combo of 01:56:651 (1), and reducing the spacing of 1/2 to assure better readability. Alright fine, since I've been getting a lot of feedback on this section prior anyway.
  4. 02:31:103 (1,2) - Maybe I guess you were following the background instrument using this snap, but I highly doubt if that sound was clear enough to use such a rhythm. Especially the transition of 02:31:361 is really vague to express as a click. Rather using 5 1/4 beat to express the drums would suit the music better. Yeah I'll admit that the 1/3 snapping did feel a little out of place, but I wasn't entirely sure what to use instead since I wanted to follow the guitar for this section, but I guess this is as good as compromise I can get.
  5. 02:52:296 (8,1) - This spacing inconsistency feels weird since it's a transition from a stream to a slider. Better make it consistent. Yeah that's a mistake.
  6. 02:54:716 (4,5,6) - Uh the rhythm transition also feels pretty weird, but majorly, I'm not sure what this rhythm is following. Since you are using 1/4, I guess the rhythm itself is pretty related to drums. Suddenly at 02:55:006 (5,6), you seemed to partially aim to give a feeling of following to the guitar melody. However since the snap isn't accurately done along the guitar, this only felt as a weird rhythm selection. Rather focus to the drums, or use an accurate snapping. I slightly changed the rhythm just before this part that you pointed out so that it matched the guitar better for this difficulty, but for the rest of it I don't see what else there is to change to. The guitar does seem to be very slightly off compared to the 1/4 rhythm, but mapping to such rhythms would make this section even more unintuitive, and the guitar is too prominent for this section to effectively map to the percussion, and even so most of the drum beats are mapped anyway. I feel what it is currently is the best compromise to mapping intuitively and accurately. I don't mind discussing this section more if there is still a problem.
  7. 03:10:781 (1,1) - Same as previous section.

[Catharsis]
  1. 00:43:393 (9,1) - 00:43:781 (4,1) - The beat of 00:43:877 feels stronger than the previous (1) according to the music. Having a smaller spacing didn't felt appropriate. Fixed.
  2. 02:03:910 (9,1) - 02:04:297 (4,1) - Same issue. Fixed.
  3. 02:31:103 (1,2) - Same with insane. Changed.
  4. 02:53:942 (1,2) - The spacing around here is pretty wide because of the 1/4 jumps. Suddenly that large spacing happens to be 1/2 instead of 1/4 here. People won't have much problem due to the ar, but for a better intuitive readability, I'd like you to ask to start to combo from 02:54:329 to discern the rhythm better. Okay, makes sense.
  5. 02:55:006 (6,7) - Same with insane. As before, but no changes here currently.
  6. 03:02:264 (4,5) - Refering from the previous similar patterns, (5) seems to be too far from the slider. I don't remember placing that so far away. Fixed.
  7. 03:23:361 (1) - This beat feels pretty redundant if you are snapping to the piano sound. 1/2 would be enough. I believe I hear sounds on the 1/4 beats, and I feel this rhythm suits this section quite well.
  8. 03:30:620 (8,1) - 03:31:007 (4,1) - Same issue. Fixed.

First of all, sorry for being so late.
Not bad, but I'd expect something more at the future! Let me know if you applied the mod.
Other changes
- Insane: 03:24:522 (3) - Moved for flow.

Thanks for modding!
Sonnyc
[Hard]
  1. 02:15:039 (5,6) - After checking similar sections that I've pointed at the mod, I've noticed that this was the only one containing a jump. Mind using a fixed spacing for consistency?

[Catharsis]
  1. 03:23:361 (1,2,3) - If you feel confident with the 1/4 reverse, then it's fine. Still I'd like to see a consistent spacing here. If you tried to express something else here, then I guess it was pretty small to get expressed yet.

Regarding the rhythm issue of 02:54:716 at Insane and Catharsis, the following rhythm is what I suggest you as an alternative. The snapping around 02:55:006 is not 1/4 according to the guitar, and using the current rhythm to fit the guitar "better" is really confusing since yeah, the snap is incorrect. Changing as the suggested rhythm ensures the correct snapped guitar as a hitsound, and ultimately will make a better intuitive transition at 02:55:200. Also making 02:54:910 clickable keeps the drum rhythm on track, leading in a better transition as I explained.
Topic Starter
-Mo-

Sonnyc wrote:

[Hard]
  1. 02:15:039 (5,6) - After checking similar sections that I've pointed at the mod, I've noticed that this was the only one containing a jump. Mind using a fixed spacing for consistency? Alright.

[Catharsis]
  1. 03:23:361 (1,2,3) - If you feel confident with the 1/4 reverse, then it's fine. Still I'd like to see a consistent spacing here. If you tried to express something else here, then I guess it was pretty small to get expressed yet. Sure.

Regarding the rhythm issue of 02:54:716 at Insane and Catharsis, the following rhythm is what I suggest you as an alternative. The snapping around 02:55:006 is not 1/4 according to the guitar, and using the current rhythm to fit the guitar "better" is really confusing since yeah, the snap is incorrect. Changing as the suggested rhythm ensures the correct snapped guitar as a hitsound, and ultimately will make a better intuitive transition at 02:55:200. Also making 02:54:910 clickable keeps the drum rhythm on track, leading in a better transition as I explained. Trying something else out as discussed ingame.
Sonnyc
Nominated.
Satellite
Qualified!
Electoz
Gratz
_HiguchiKaede
gratz poi :)

Santtu
Mooooooooooo you did it!! Can't wait to play it
riffy
Congratulations.

Try to work harder on the appearance of the sliders next time, though. Some of them look extremely untidy, this mostly applies to Normal, though.
Topic Starter
-Mo-

Bakari wrote:

Congratulations.

Try to work harder on the appearance of the sliders next time, though. Some of them look extremely untidy, this mostly applies to Normal, though.
Any ones in specific to point out? The main style I aimed for was to use as many non-standard sliders as possible.
riffy

-Mo- wrote:

Any ones in specific to point out? The main style I aimed for was to use as many non-standard sliders as possible.
Sure, this one 02:06:716 (4) - on Normal - felt like an overkill to me, newbies will have difficulties getting it right. This being said, I have to admit, I am generally not a fan of so-called non-standard sliders, so yeah, it's subjective.
Prophecy

Bakari wrote:

Congratulations.

Try to work harder on the appearance of the sliders next time, though. Some of them look extremely untidy, this mostly applies to Normal, though.
ww
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