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posted

monstrata wrote:

Rule: The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds.
Guideline: If the potential drain time for a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute.
But, why do we need to make 2 things, just make a rule that is providing an exception, potential also is not the right word imo, that would cause people asking whether they can have song less than minute or not. Potential could mean remix, lowered BPM or loop.

The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.
Official cuts = i.e. TV Size. Short Ver. provided by artist
posted

Wafu wrote:

monstrata wrote:

Rule: The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds.
Guideline: If the potential drain time for a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute.
But, why do we need to make 2 things, just make a rule that is providing an exception, potential also is not the right word imo, that would cause people asking whether they can have song less than minute or not. Potential could mean remix, lowered BPM or loop.

The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.
Official cuts = i.e. TV Size. Short Ver. provided by artist
but then we'd still have the issue of actual full length songs that are just above one minute but cant achive 1 minute full drain time. Thats why I'm saying, this should only apply to cuts made by the mapper.
posted
It applies only to cuts made by mapper. "with an exception of official cuts"
posted

Wafu wrote:

It applies only to cuts made by mapper. "with an exception of official cuts"
Finally someone gets it.
posted

Mercurial wrote:

Wafu wrote:

It applies only to cuts made by mapper. "with an exception of official cuts"
Finally someone gets it.
this, jesus :P was really surprised more people didn't understand this
posted
I don't get how someone can look at that poll and conclude that 60s or less maps are everyone's least favorite and they should be unranked. By that logic, we should also be unranking anything over 6 minutes because they are also less popular than 2minute/3minute songs. While we're at it, let's make only anime opening theme songs rankable, other genres are clearly less popular. Oh, and Hard, Insane, or Extra diffs are the most popular, so Easy and Normal should be unranked. As well as modes other than Standard.

You wouldn't ask "what is your favorite osu! mode", and then when the result is Standard, unrank Taiko, CTB, and Mania, right? That's just idiotic. I don't see how this poll is any different.
posted

Wafu wrote:

It applies only to cuts made by mapper. "with an exception of official cuts"
I am not talking about official cuts. And if you want to include short songs, that I brought up (example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/301072),
which are only barely over a minute, then you should clarify the wording to prevent confusion
and future conflicts.

How about:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
posted

Snaggletooth wrote:

How about:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
Yes and no.

Yes for what you said.

No for "Yeah, I've got this sweet song I do want to map but I don't to spend much time on it. Uhm, great idea! What about cutting off this 2:15 song to 1 minute or so? It's perfect!"

I'm okay with the "85% of the song mapped" option.

tuddster wrote:

I don't get how someone can look at that poll and conclude that 60s or less maps are everyone's least favorite and they should be unranked.
"Hur dur, I hate short maps because they bring nothing to the game because Muh opinions > your opinions".

That kind of people.
posted

Snaggletooth wrote:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
This is almost the same thing I said, just longer and more complicated because it allows another exception.

If the cut was officially used somewhere, you are allowed to use it under 1 minute - That means any cut which were done by mapper or other person (this only talks about mapper, which is pretty questionable and there would soon be people making soundcloud, cutting it and uploading it as some another artist with "no, I did not cut it, it is some other person's cut".

The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.
Was covering this as well. Official cut = exactly the same song you are mapping, but shortened by artist or someone else to use it in official source. This still allows you to cut maps on yourself if it will be longer than 1 minute. If there is a problem for someone to understand that it is equal to your wording, just simpler, the problem is on the other side, this is as obvious as it just could be.

Nevertheless mapping TV Size versions and so on is a bit lazy, but might have reasons - Including video, thus presenting the anime a little, but cutting them manually is just lazy and I did never see a reason to cut it unless there were really unmappable parts.
posted
I don't think this rule makes any sense.
There weren't big complaints over the last years, so why now.
There was a lot said already so I don't have really anything to add, but I just think this doesn't feel right.
I enjoy every lenght of maps. Although I like long maps over 5 minutes the most, the short ones are still fun.
And that's what this game is about, right?
posted

Mercurial wrote:

Snaggletooth wrote:

How about:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
Yes and no.

Yes for what you said.

No for "Yeah, I've got this sweet song I do want to map but I don't to spend much time on it. Uhm, great idea! What about cutting off this 2:15 song to 1 minute or so? It's perfect!"

I'm okay with the "85% of the song mapped" option.

tuddster wrote:

I don't get how someone can look at that poll and conclude that 60s or less maps are everyone's least favorite and they should be unranked.
"Hur dur, I hate short maps because they bring nothing to the game because Muh opinions > your opinions".

That kind of people.
I'm not sure where you found that 85% mapped proposal but I have mapped and seen several maps with long intros that are quite unmappable or really doesn't need that much of it mapped. Further restrictions like that are bound to decrease quality of some songs. I might have misunderstood you but yeh
posted

Wafu wrote:

This is almost the same thing I said, just longer and more complicated because it allows another exception.

If the cut was officially used somewhere, you are allowed to use it under 1 minute - That means any cut which were done by mapper or other person (this only talks about mapper, which is pretty questionable and there would soon be people making soundcloud, cutting it and uploading it as some another artist with "no, I did not cut it, it is some other person's cut".

The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.
Was covering this as well. Official cut = exactly the same song you are mapping, but shortened by artist or someone else to use it in official source. This still allows you to cut maps on yourself if it will be longer than 1 minute. If there is a problem for someone to understand that it is equal to your wording, just simpler, the problem is on the other side, this is as obvious as it just could be.

Nevertheless mapping TV Size versions and so on is a bit lazy, but might have reasons - Including video, thus presenting the anime a little, but cutting them manually is just lazy and I did never see a reason to cut it unless there were really unmappable parts.
Then I really think the word 'cut' is what strikes me odd here. I don't disagree with you, I think I misunderstood or
perhaps we misunderstood eachother.
When you say 'officially cut' songs, I think about TV sizes. I think about intros, I wanted to adress
short songs that have an intro, a vers, chourse and an outro in just above one minute. I thought that these
exceptionally short and full songs would be banned with this rule.
posted

Snaggletooth wrote:

Wafu wrote:

This is almost the same thing I said, just longer and more complicated because it allows another exception.

If the cut was officially used somewhere, you are allowed to use it under 1 minute - That means any cut which were done by mapper or other person (this only talks about mapper, which is pretty questionable and there would soon be people making soundcloud, cutting it and uploading it as some another artist with "no, I did not cut it, it is some other person's cut".

The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.
Was covering this as well. Official cut = exactly the same song you are mapping, but shortened by artist or someone else to use it in official source. This still allows you to cut maps on yourself if it will be longer than 1 minute. If there is a problem for someone to understand that it is equal to your wording, just simpler, the problem is on the other side, this is as obvious as it just could be.

Nevertheless mapping TV Size versions and so on is a bit lazy, but might have reasons - Including video, thus presenting the anime a little, but cutting them manually is just lazy and I did never see a reason to cut it unless there were really unmappable parts.
Then I really think the word 'cut' is what strikes me odd here. I don't disagree with you, I think I misunderstood or
perhaps we misunderstood eachother.
When you say 'officially cut' songs, I think about TV sizes. I think about intros, I wanted to adress
short songs that have an intro, a vers, chourse and an outro in just above one minute. I thought that these
exceptionally short and full songs would be banned with this rule.
Oh yeah, the 'with exceptions' means that all other cuts can be done, but must be 1 minute and above :)
posted
Maps don't even get abused enough to need this "1 minute cut" rule thing. It's pretty pointless. Just let mappers map what they want. A guideline at best, but still pointless.

Also, back on topic. No to the 1 minute rule that was originally proposed, and definitely no to this new one that you guys kinda took over the thread with.
posted
I think 45 secs min is nice, 1min is too much to be a minimum
posted
has there been a single comment anywhere yet in support of this exact rule?
posted

Makoa wrote:

has there been a single comment anywhere yet in support of this exact rule?
No, fucking, one.
posted
Honestly, I wouldn't use only "votes" to decide what rule should work or not. They should come here and post there thoughts about it. There wasn't much of a problem with 40 second maps anyways. Yes they are short, but it doesn't mean they can't be fun. One main reason I can see people complaining is the total score being much smaller than average maps. So what? If score is the only reason to force this rule then i'm against it. Forcing such a rule would kill maps like these in the future and i've yet to see short maps become a plague to the BSS in general.
posted

Lanturn wrote:

Maps don't even get abused enough to need this "1 minute cut" rule thing. It's pretty pointless. Just let mappers map what they want. A guideline at best, but still pointless.

Also, back on topic. No to the 1 minute rule that was originally proposed, and definitely no to this new one that you guys kinda took over the thread with.
Just because something doesn't get abused right now is not a an argument against preventing that abuse in the future (regardless whether cutting a song is an abuse or not, just logically speaking).
This thread hasn't been taken over, Loctav proposed this new wording himself (x)


Wafu wrote:

Snaggletooth wrote:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by the mapper, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute. This is to prevent mappers from excessively and unreasonably cut songs and preventing a full experience, while
still allowing the option to shorten songs that have an overly repetitive beat/tune to prevent boredom while playing and mapping.
This is almost the same thing I said, ...

The minimum draining time for a map must be 30 seconds. If original version of the song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining time for the map must be 1 minute with an exception of official cuts.
Was covering this as well. Official cut = exactly the same song you are mapping, but shortened by artist or someone else to use it in official source. This still allows you to cut maps on yourself if it will be longer than 1 minute. If there is a problem for someone to understand that it is equal to your wording, just simpler, the problem is on the other side, this is as obvious as it just could be.
Sorry if I'm mistaken, but your wording still doesn't cover songs that haven't been cut at all, meaning a song that is originally (= not cut in any way) 1:02 long but has an unmappable intro, outro etc. won't be rankable. At least for me, "official cuts" excludes official non-cuts. Snaggletooth's wording covered this.


Wafu wrote:

... it allows another exception.

If the cut was officially used somewhere, you are allowed to use it under 1 minute - That means any cut which were done by mapper or other person (this only talks about mapper, which is pretty questionable and there would soon be people making soundcloud, cutting it and uploading it as some another artist with "no, I did not cut it, it is some other person's cut".
How about this:
The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the song was custom cut by someone other than the official source, the minimum draining (play) time must exceed 1 minute.
It shouldn't be a problem to identify who is official and who isn't, right?


Also, I'm against the percentage-limit, because (as previously mentioned) this immensly varies from song to song, I don't think you can set a general rule on something that diversified.
posted
@Bonsai

"Sorry if I'm mistaken, but your wording still doesn't cover songs that haven't been cut at all, meaning a song that is originally (= not cut in any way) 1:02 long but has an unmappable intro, outro etc. won't be rankable. At least for me, "official cuts" excludes official non-cuts. Snaggletooth's wording covered this."

Official non-cuts are covered in my wording. There is said that the 1-minute applies only if official version is longer than 1 minute. That means if opening is 40 second long as a full version, it is excluded from 1 minute rule, as well as official cuts are excluded - that is here just to prove that if official cut is less than minute, but original is longer, you are still allowed to use it, because it is official. Same applies to full version which are shorter than minute - if is, 1 minute rule doesn't apply, because original version is shorter than minute.

Your wording actually conflicts with other rule. That is if less than 80% of mp3 is unused, you have to cut it. If original was shorter than one minute, you couldn't fulfill both rules. I covered the same stuff as Snaggletooth, just shorter.
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