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posted
People have purpose to map, if somebody wants to map a song he wants this song to be ranked, if a song CANT be ranked because rules, then why would he map it anyways... It would be wasting time
posted

Umaru-chan wrote:

Well if you try to rank a beatmap which is like 30 seconds it should have atleast 5-6 diffs(with a proper spread ofc) not things like this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/178669 <-- 2 diffs.I personally think this is bs since there are a few gimmicky songs out there that are better in 30 seconds than full 3 minutes. So my suggestion would be: if the map is 45seconds or below you need a bigger spreading with atleast 6 diffs.
That wouldn't work. There are some kind of music you can't do too much (Like the one you linked).
How would you do 6 diffs for a super calm short song? Beginner, Easy, Easy+, Normal, Advanced and Hard?

CptSqBany wrote:

People have purpose to map, if somebody wants to map a song he wants this song to be ranked, if a song CANT be ranked because rules, then why would he map it anyways... It would be wasting time
Not sure if it fits, but mapping doesn't always mean "to rank"

Loctav wrote:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.
Definitely agree with this one, since allows minimum of 30 seconds but doesn't allow cutting a long song to something below 1 minute
posted
I do agree with this, however; I believe that since 30 seconds maps have a degree of entertainment value to it since most of them are quite gimmicky or uhh just funny in general. I believe if one would like to "rank" a 30 seconds map, they should be able to do so HOWEVER, send them to a completely different category of maps so those maps won't be categorized as "osu! Official/Ranked Beatmaps". But not in pending! It should have a slot of their own. Solves everybody's problems.
posted
your suggestion seems like too much effort for maps that short
posted

Loctav wrote:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.
This is way too better from the actual rule, it makes justice for true short maps lol not like these beatmaps https://osu.ppy.sh/s/88299
posted
I disgree, even with the new proposal of limiting to 1 minute if the song is 1 minute or longer.

If you want to stop people from excessively cutting songs out of lazyness simply forbid that or, better, limit how much of a song you're allowed to cut. Something like that:

The final drain time of a song must be at least 85% of the full version song.
posted

Wafu wrote:

@Garven, I think that's not really thing to consider. Whether it is more work for others is firstly subjective (there might be instantly rankable beatmaps, but absolutely terrible ones and that's what determines whether the job of modders, BNs, QATs is going to be worth it). But why would we even consider that? Respectively, everyone is free to mod, bubble or qualify whatever he likes. For QATs it is more complicated, but that is limited by count and it is not that terrible to check 1 or 2 shorter maps than the others per whole page of qualified maps.
You do realize that not all beatmaps are "perfect" from the get-go, right? You'll also have maps that take huge amounts of effort from all sides to balance out the ones that slip through with ease. On a personal level, it feels like a waste of time looking through a 30 second beatmap set when there are sets out there that actually have a lot more thought and effort behind them. I would much rather promote a map set like that rather than some throwaway map that people will play once and toss aside. From the more practical end, I'm coming in from the time investment angle - time may be a nearly infinite source for you, but for others it is worth much more and I would prefer to spend time on a mapset that carries more impact than what effectively adds up to a quick jingle.
posted
uggghh noooo i love -1min maps ;----;
posted

Lach wrote:

CptSqBany wrote:

People still want to conquer, who is better in Global, Country, Mods, Friends ranking. So if somebody would map Full PUPA opening, that is 30 seconds long, then it would be thrown to trash?
?????
CptSqany, you did not say why would new group of short maps be needed, that's what Lach wanted to hear.

@Garven uhm, but that still is really subjective, I mean, whether people will like the map or not. That is referring back to the poll at the beginning - Less people will play and repeat it because they prefer different length, but those who voted for short maps shouldn't be punched in the face by making their favorite maps urankable. That will be equal for QATs - some might appreciate short maps and because it is just a minority, it does not mean that if you, as a subject, do not prefer it, it should be instantly urankable.

Also "You do realize that not all beatmaps are "perfect" from the get-go, right?" I exactly said that in my post. I said that the quality of map is what determines whether the job of certain people is worth it or not. To be more accurate, if we qualify good short map, people might or might not get back to it, that depends on song, how challenging it is and the skill group it is for. - Obviously if you make ultra easy map, it will be appropriate mainly for newbies, so they play it once or twice and then don't play it at all, but that is because it would be too easy for them - It anyway did its purpose, provide newbies really easy map, that it is not played by majority does not mean it is useless. But if you make a map that is 4 minutes long, with random jumps, overmapped streams and variable (insensible) rhythms, thus making it unplayable, it doesn't have to be played often either. What I want to say it is that I exactly DO realize that not all beatmaps are perfect, but that's the bigger issue than short maps being qualified. Some people might skip short song because it is short, same can happen with very long maps, but after all, mapping a short song unless it is a cut is not lazy or doesn't mean mapper put less effort to it than other mappers for longer maps. If he cannot get longer song (or destroy it by looping), he does have no choice, so that instantly means he did not put enough effort to it? My opinion is that effort is not related to song length. This could be compared to using symmetry in maps, isn't it lazy to copy most patterns and just flip them on the other side, thus shortening the work by half or more if you copy whole parts (chorus etc.)? Even if it was 4 minute map, shouldn't you be bothered checking it the same way as in case of short maps? (Mapping 30 seconds and copying it to the whole map is not that hard job honestly)
posted
Why is there a need to change this rule anyways? I really dont see the point behind this. Even the new wording dosnt change the limit of 30 second, it only adds a paragraph that opens more questions and conflicts. You can't even go with a set percentage of drain as Granger proposed, considering how every song is diffrent.

My suggestion is:

Forbid cuts that make the song shorter than a minute.
Don't even touch individual songstl that legitametlz only are about one minute.
posted

neonat wrote:

Am fine with the limit of minimum 1 minute
But why?! Is there even a reason to enforce rules like these because of an unrelated poll?

See, this is the real problem osu is facing regarding rules. People want to influence the game by creating rules, which are completely unnecessary and fills no other function but boosting ones contributor status. I can't even comprehend how this idea came to mind...

I need to hear solid reasoning other than 'obviously we need to BAN this maplenght because this random poll shows us that they aren't the most popular lenght'. It's not something you'd expect from staff members...
posted
Nooo! No, no, no! Some >1 minute maps are the most fun maps of osu!
Example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/111631

You would deny future maps like this their well-earned Ranked-status simply for being too short? That's unfair, that would mean the hard work put into maps like this will go unrecognized.
It would also deter people from making >1 minute maps, leading to less diversity. And if we restricted diversity, osu! would soon consist only of generic TVSize anime intros. We shouldn't restrict diversity.
posted

Loctav wrote:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.
Now we're talking, this sounds so much better.

Snaggletooth wrote:

Why is there a need to change this rule anyways? I really dont see the point behind this. Even the new wording dosnt change the limit of 30 second, it only adds a paragraph that opens more questions and conflicts. You can't even go with a set percentage of drain as Granger proposed, considering how every song is diffrent.
Because there are mappers (like Loctav) who doesn't like <1 minute short maps, because most of them are vague and give next to no gameplay at all (There are a few exceptions to this, though).

I personally do enjoy more 1 minute long maps than 4/5 minute long ones.
posted

Snaggletooth wrote:

Why is there a need to change this rule anyways? I really dont see the point behind this. Even the new wording dosnt change the limit of 30 second, it only adds a paragraph that opens more questions and conflicts. You can't even go with a set percentage of drain as Granger proposed, considering how every song is diffrent.
Because there are mappers (like Loctav) who doesn't like <1 minute short maps, because most of them are vague and give next to no gameplay at all (There are a few exceptions to this, though).

I personally do enjoy more 1 minute long maps than 4/5 minute long ones.[/quote]

I dislike osu!mania, i want it removed. I dislike the pp-system, therefore we should go back to ranked total score. I dislike maps that are longer than 2 minutes, those should be unrankable. You see how bullshit this argument is? But that dosnt matter because I aint no BN/QAT/Mod/Loctav. (And no, this was ment more generally, its not a particular responds to you).

There is no legit reason to keep short songs out of osu. The people who dont like to play them, wont. And the claim that its a waste of BNs time is bull as well considering that thanks to the short playtime, the time for modding is signifficantly lower than modding a full 4 minute song-set with 5 diffs.
posted
People shouldn't cut original songs unless it's an official cut like from videogames.
posted

Cloudchaser wrote:

People shouldn't cut original songs unless it's an official cut like from videogames.
Sometimes is pointless to map songs that are pure loops, though.
posted

Mercurial wrote:

Cloudchaser wrote:

People shouldn't cut original songs unless it's an official cut like from videogames.
Sometimes is pointless to map songs that are pure loops, though.
I have to disagree with this
This requires the need to be creative, and do something different, as that'll make the map more fun to play
For example, my ranked map *CLICK*
The Original song is 7 seconds
There are 4-5 loops (5th being a fade out) but by usage of SV changes and overall changes all parts feel really different (perhaps not for easy though, but you get what I mean right?)
posted

baraatje123 wrote:

I have to disagree with this
This requires the need to be creative, and do something different, as that'll make the map more fun to play
For example, my ranked map *CLICK*
The Original song is 7 seconds
There are 4-5 loops (5th being a fade out) but by usage of SV changes and overall changes all parts feel really different (perhaps not for easy though, but you get what I mean right?)
I think Mercurial is reffering to cases where you have unnecessary many loops, taking your map which would be two minutes long for example. You wouldn't map a 7 second loop as many times to have two minutes in the end, do you? :P
posted
Nope
That's a bit excessive
Unless you loop it to approval size and make ir special
Not sure if that's possible though
posted

baraatje123 wrote:

Nope
That's a bit excessive
Unless you loop it to approval size and make ir special
Not sure if that's possible though
It is. But that is ridiculously stupid, even as Collab.
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