[Rule] The minimum draining time for a map must be 1 minute

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Mao

Okoratu wrote:

There does exist, however a full version of the song which is 3:27 in length.
I didn't even notice they released it now. However, this is a good point.

Generally tough, this wording is much better in my eyes.
Snaggletooth

Loctav wrote:

Let's fix the proposal up to the arguments brought up by others in this thread to the following:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.

Does that wording make sense?
then what about songs that are 1:12 but tze actual drain is 0:50 ? Would people then be forced to map 1 minute drain, which could potentially mean that the mapper would have to figure out how to map the intro/outro or possible breaks that have little to no beat density? Or does this only apply to cuts?
Garven
I'd prefer it to be a hard minimum of 45 seconds and the recommended to be 1:00. 30 second songs do exist, but in the context of this game and the administration it seems like a large amount of invested time for the mappers, modders, BN, and QAT for such a short experience. I'd rather have more focus on longer songs/maps that will bring more entertainment vs. time invested.
Nozhomi

Snaggletooth wrote:

then what about songs that are 1:12 but tze actual drain is 0:50 ? Would people then be forced to map 1 minute drain, which could potentially mean that the mapper would have to figure out how to map the intro/outro or possible breaks that have little to no beat density? Or does this only apply to cuts?
Because it's not a cut ver. it should be allowed to have 0:50 drain.

This new version of the rule is better yeah, since it just force to avoid cut version. Sounds good.
Snaggletooth

Nozhomi wrote:

Because it's not a cut ver. it should be allowed to have 0:50 drain.

This new version of the rule is better yeah, since it just force to avoid cut version. Sounds good.
Well then it should be worded diffrently. A songs full version can be over 1 minute, dosnt mean the drain is. it should specifically state that this only applies to cuts.
OSUjanaiKATSURAda
No. i mostly Play only Short Maps ( i like to enjoy short songs, and get a little fun than playing a 1 day map that it ended like a job ( oh finally its done )
Damaged ears/eyes/hands/nerfs/ ( waste of time ) .
Stefan
Openings are technically correct and legitime versions and not cut versions. It should be noted they do not count as cut version.
Gezoda
I'm supporting the new proposal, with Garven's twist.

However, if there is no "official" version of an OP (which, in my example, would be 44 seconds) but is made from a cut from an extended version, would that could as a cut version or a legitimate opening ?
Wafu

Stefan wrote:

Openings are technically correct and legitime versions and not cut versions. It should be noted they do not count as cut version.
Yeah, we should mention that it only applies for non-official cuts.

Apart from that, I pretty much agree with Loctav's current wording.
@Garven, I think that's not really thing to consider. Whether it is more work for others is firstly subjective (there might be instantly rankable beatmaps, but absolutely terrible ones and that's what determines whether the job of modders, BNs, QATs is going to be worth it). But why would we even consider that? Respectively, everyone is free to mod, bubble or qualify whatever he likes. For QATs it is more complicated, but that is limited by count and it is not that terrible to check 1 or 2 shorter maps than the others per whole page of qualified maps.
xxdeathx
Chances are nothing I map would be affected by this rule, but that doesn't mean I'm for it.

Kind of sad that enough of the community dislikes short maps to the point that they support disallowing them from being ranked. Please tell me how the existence of short ranked maps affects you, how it causes you grief.
Maeglwn
a poll that shows that a majority of people enjoy a certain type of map more than another does not mean that they dislike a different type of it, or that the people who did vote for that category should be ostracized as a result

heavily disagree\

glad to see the majority of the community reacted in the way that I theorized ages ago they were going to if something like this was proposed

Loctav wrote:

Let's fix the proposal up to the arguments brought up by others in this thread to the following:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.

Does that wording make sense?
this is absolutely, 100% a better idea. cutting a song just promotes laziness amongst mappers and encourages people to enjoy less of the song than the actual song has contentwise
Starry-

Loctav wrote:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map provides a sufficiently long gameplay experience. This also prevents people from cutting songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.
^ I slightly altered the wording here, feels a tad better from the previous.

This rule makes a lot more sense then the original proposal in the first post (which I completely disagreed with).

I see no reason for a hard minimum of 45 seconds though. A minimum of 30 seconds is fine enough. I've had a lot of enjoyable gameplay experience in both osu!std and o!mania from songs under 45 seconds for me personally as a player, and I'm sure many other players have also, so I don't see why you would need a minimum of 45 seconds. Just because a map is short it doesn't mean the mapper didn't put effort into it, either.

I support the new proposal how it is.
silmarilen

xxdeathx wrote:

Chances are nothing I map would be affected by this rule, but that doesn't mean I'm for it.

Kind of sad that enough of the community dislikes short maps to the point that they support disallowing them from being ranked. Please tell me how the existence of short ranked maps affects you, how it causes you grief.
???? did you even read the thread?
there isnt a single person that agreed with the rule...

i dont really like the new suggestion either because it's so arbitrary, why is cutting a song a bad thing because of lazyness when it's still allowed for songs that are already that long in the first place? isn't that lazyness aswell then?

anyway at least it's better than the original suggestion.
UndeadCapulet
I don't think the new wording is entirely addressing the issue about needless cutting. This map would still be rankable despite only 1 minute of the original 4:30 song being mapped. As seen in the Disqus comments of that map, this is kind of thing people have an issue with; it's not the length the song has been cut to, it's the amount of song being cut out. I think a better rule would be something along the lines of:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. A song cannot be cut or shortened past 50% of its official release. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. This also prevents people from cutting songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way. A TV Size or shorter release is still an official release, and this rule does not prohibit such examples.

The 50% was some arbitrary number chosen, it can be changed as people see fit.
xxdeathx

silmarilen wrote:

xxdeathx wrote:

Chances are nothing I map would be affected by this rule, but that doesn't mean I'm for it.

Kind of sad that enough of the community dislikes short maps to the point that they support disallowing them from being ranked. Please tell me how the existence of short ranked maps affects you, how it causes you grief.
???? did you even read the thread?
there isnt a single person that agreed with the rule...

i dont really like the new suggestion either because it's so arbitrary, why is cutting a song a bad thing because of lazyness when it's still allowed for songs that are already that long in the first place? isn't that lazyness aswell then?

anyway at least it's better than the original suggestion.
did you read? i was referring to this post, not the OP...if you want my response to that, please see p/4383468

Loctav wrote:

Let's fix the proposal up to the arguments brought up by others in this thread to the following:

The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.

Does that wording make sense?
CptSqBany
I would make a NEW category of maps below 1 minute that has their ranking for people who ACTUALLY likes playing these maps -.-

Btw. These "reasons" why it is done like that are really really bad
Lach

CptSqBany wrote:

I would make a NEW category of maps below 1 minute that has their ranking for people who ACTUALLY likes playing these maps -.-
Why? As much as the original rule was silly, we don't explicitly want to encourage short maps. Does a 30 second map being in the same listing affect you in any negative way?
Mazziv
Well if you try to rank a beatmap which is like 30 seconds it should have atleast 5-6 diffs(with a proper spread ofc) not things like this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/178669 <-- 2 diffs.I personally think this is bs since there are a few gimmicky songs out there that are better in 30 seconds than full 3 minutes. So my suggestion would be: if the map is 45seconds or below you need a bigger spreading with atleast 6 diffs.
CptSqBany

Lach wrote:

CptSqBany wrote:

I would make a NEW category of maps below 1 minute that has their ranking for people who ACTUALLY likes playing these maps -.-
Why? As much as the original rule was silly, we don't explicitly want to encourage short maps. Does a 30 second map being in the same listing affect you in any negative way?
People still want to conquer, who is better in Global, Country, Mods, Friends ranking. So if somebody would map Full PUPA opening, that is 30 seconds long, then it would be thrown to trash?
Lach

CptSqBany wrote:

People still want to conquer, who is better in Global, Country, Mods, Friends ranking. So if somebody would map Full PUPA opening, that is 30 seconds long, then it would be thrown to trash?
?????
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