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Poll 26: Should we remove scoreboards from qualified maps?

posted
Total Posts
118

Should we remove scoreboards from qualified beatmaps?

Yes
334
12.16%
No
634
23.08%
Keep them but don't reward performance points until ranked
1779
64.76%
Total votes: 2747
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MrPotato
206 posts
Joined June 2013
MrPotato

Lanturn wrote:

MrPotato wrote:

Like monstrata mentioned, not all beatmaps change after disqualifications or every map that is included in the mapset does.
As much as the third option is the most ideal option for this poll, I would say there should be a 4th option of making every scoreboard of every map in a mapset to not get deleted as long as the actual map didn't change during the time the mapset got disqualified.
Some diqualifications are not all about the actual map but rather the meta data or just one map out of a full mapset, then, when a mapset gets disqualified due to one or few of the difficulties their scoreboard should not be deleted on maps that didn't change in the mapset during the time the mapset is disqualified.
As much of a popular opinion this is. With the current system, it will never happen. One small change to the map could completely mess up scores, replays or other things. How do you know the mapper didn't move one object slightly before it got requalified? It isn't worth it. It's better to wipe the scores to avoid any possible problems down the line when relating to scores/replays.
if maps are changed during the disqualification period the specific maps that changed would be needed to be updated, with the current system if a map is not changed in a mapset at all you would not need to update it in order to play its ranked version.
Also every minor change in .osu files is noticed.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
Tbh, I don't see why metadata issues require a disqualification to fix. Can the staff not fix such issues internally? Because it literally takes the mapper like all of 30 seconds to make metadata changes and reupload the map... Can't little things like this be done without the need to DQ?
Lanturn
osu! Alumni
3,912 posts
Joined March 2012
Lanturn

monstrata wrote:

Tbh, I don't see why metadata issues require a disqualification to fix. Can the staff not fix such issues internally? Because it literally takes the mapper like all of 30 seconds to make metadata changes and reupload the map... Can't little things like this be done without the need to DQ?
when osz2 comes.
Athrun
1,049 posts
Joined December 2013
Athrun
I would want the scoreboards to be at least kept onto the qualified maps. But don't calculate pp until the map finally gets ranked.

^^
Hope it appears!
Accurian
103 posts
Joined May 2014
Accurian
I think that if scores don't get uploaded at all like maps that aren't ranked would eliminate all this drama since people who play those maps would only provide constructive criticism instead of creating a scene after losing performance points due to disqualification.
Straw Hat
41 posts
Joined September 2014
Straw Hat
How will not rewarding pp right away stop any drama at all? If the map is dequalified, the scores set are still lost.
iCakeMan
8 posts
Joined August 2014
iCakeMan

Graf wrote:

There should be a clearer indication in-game if the map is qualified or ranked imo.
This
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

DRRR wrote:

How will not rewarding pp right away stop any drama at all? If the map is dequalified, the scores set are still lost.
I don't think the majority of people see a decent score as something valuable on it's own; rather, the PP it awards. By delaying PP rewards, nobody gets any PP, so nobody has PP to lose if the map gets disqualified.

I think people just get annoyed because their arbitrary number measuring performance has gone down
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
3rd looks the best.

DRRR wrote:

How will not rewarding pp right away stop any drama at all? If the map is dequalified, the scores set are still lost.
When people aren't capable enough to take some seconds to understand what Qualified means then there is no reason to whine about the "loss" of a single score.
Allsiss
12 posts
Joined May 2014
Allsiss
Some have already said it, but I think the issue is more the visability of the ranked status than anything else.

For most maps you don't know when they will be fully ranked or if they already are unless you check on the website and to do that for 10+ maps everyday can be a hassle. I think the only thing that needs to be changed is the icon for qualified maps. Instead of a heart make it a star, a triangle or something like that.

EDIT: Or even better, make the symbol the number of days that map has already been in qualified status.
Serraionga
11,477 posts
Joined November 2014
Serraionga
The solely reason why people don't like doing awesome scores on qualified maps is because they could lose a huge amount of pp in the process in case of DQ, so... there goes my vote on the 3rd option.
Last edited by Serraionga , edited 1 time in total.
Sonnyc
7,753 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc

Wafu wrote:

I agree it either should be removed completely or there should be the warning, like: "7 days remaining till permanent qualification" or something, which would count like that.
I think this is a good point. I remember there was once a warning for the old approved beatmaps saying 'this will not be counted on your ranked score' or something.

Providing in-game for players will be something most users will agree.
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
That's a good idea
I also like Allsiss's idea, about the symbol indicating how long it has to go
Perhaps a nuclear Heart counting down, and when time's up, it's ranked (and the nuke goes away) (idk)
SoraElohim
3 posts
Joined January 2014
SoraElohim

Xilver wrote:

3rd option seems very much ideal and a nice compromise.
I have to agree with you on that and like the other guy said there should also be a clearer indication if it's qualified or ranked.
DeletedUser_4329079
DeletedUser_4329079

Graf wrote:

There should be a clearer indication in-game if the map is qualified or ranked imo.
Yup.
ithgyu
468 posts
Joined October 2014
ithgyu
3rd option and maybe have a message that pops up at the start of playing a qualified map telling you that its qualified and that you wont receive pp until the map is ranked, kinda like the message about deleting backgrounds make osu angggryyyyyyyyyy! use background dim instead thing, that way it should be blatantly clear that you wont get pp and that its qualified, whist still allowing for people to see neat scores that top players make
Arf
901 posts
Joined December 2013
Arf

Sonnyc wrote:

Wafu wrote:

I agree it either should be removed completely or there should be the warning, like: "7 days remaining till permanent qualification" or something, which would count like that.
I think this is a good point. I remember there was once a warning for the old approved beatmaps saying 'this will not be counted on your ranked score' or something.

Providing in-game for players will be something most users will agree.
+1
Removing pp from qualified maps and adding this is, in my opinion, the best way to go about doing this.
Kawashiro
1,522 posts
Joined April 2012
Kawashiro
Almost of noob player is love Qualified map because of easier get first place than ranked map

Map rank is show about player's skill so good player must be the high rank, so i think it is just self-conplacency to take 1st in qualified map

I think it doesn't need
Kyaaa
25 posts
Joined July 2013
Kyaaa
"Keep them but don't reward performance points until ranked"

Seems like the best option for everyone. Let's us keep an eye on the scores for fun and challange, but won't be rewarded until it's confirmed it's going to be ranked, which is cool.
Yarissa
587 posts
Joined September 2010
Yarissa
I like to tackle qualified maps for the challenge/ replays watched as opposed to the pp rewarded, so I think I'll agree with the third option. It would be a shame to see leaderboards disappear entirely
Backstep
1,007 posts
Joined September 2009
Backstep
Last options sound nice for me, I don't care how much pp I get and it's can calculate later after pass 7 days imo.
-Mo-
Nomination Assessment Team
953 posts
Joined December 2012
-Mo-
I personally find that watching the replays of qualified maps is useful for the mapper in the case the map does get disqualified.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
Pretty sure Lanturn mentioned this earlier, but I'd rather go with a completely different tactic. Players can continue to compete and earn pp while in qualified, but their scores and pp gains are wiped upon ranked. This will allow people to test their playing abilities (and the beatmap, provide feedback if needed too), see how the map will affect their overall pp, and avoid heartbreak when a map is disqualified since they were going to lose the pp anyway. It fits the whole "cutting edge" motif qualified beatmaps have. In multiple alpha/beta tests, most of the time you don't carry your work into the finished product (mmos with their character data, for example).

Of course, players that don't already mind losing their scores will play in qualified maps (those that should be) so they won't complain/cause a drama. Those that do mind, however, will stay away and wait the process out (or give the beatmap a try). We'll definitely need some sort of qualified indicator ingame if this were to happen though.

If we can't do the above, then it is the third option for me :D
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
I'm not sure about that
Okay, Qualified comes with a risk, but there should also be a reward (score stays if map is good enough)

Edit: Wow, already 1200+ votes O.o
Last edited by Bara- , edited 1 time in total.
Rad-
595 posts
Joined June 2011
Rad-
Ranked maps have a heart.

Approved maps have a flame.

Qualified maps have a racing flag.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust

baraatje123 wrote:

I'm not sure about that
Okay, Qualified comes with a risk, but there should also be a reward (score stays if map is good enough)

Edit: Wow, already 1200+ votes O.o
Why? Where in the qualified listing states that playing these beatmaps should give you a reward? It says it clearly in black and white, the qualified section is for people who don't mind their scores getting lost (although in this instance it would be all scores), those who want to play cutting edge beatmaps before they are released to the masses, and those that want to help keep beatmap quality top-notch (which not a lot of people seem to be doing for some reason...). With what I wrote, we change the angle of the qualified section entirely - those that want to help with beatmap quality can and those that don't mind losing scores can still play on a scoreboard + see how the pp gain affects their overall pp.
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
Well
I meant it in the way: Why should players be "punished" (losing score) when the map passes the 7-days and thus is of high-quality
I know, it's a risk, but players shouldn't be "punished" IMO
Here I mean Not "Punished" as rewarded (probably wrong word choice tho ;w;)
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust

baraatje123 wrote:

Well
I meant it in the way: Why should players be "punished" (losing score) when the map passes the 7-days and thus is of high-quality
I know, it's a risk, but players shouldn't be "punished" IMO
Here I mean Not "Punished" as rewarded (probably wrong word choice tho ;w;)
They aren't being punished for something they should be willing to lose in the first place. Playing for pp should not be on the forefront of a qualified player's mind. If we want people to evaluate qualified beatmaps closer and have a qualified section as it is supposed to be, we need to rethink how scoring/pp gains work in the section entirely. I think what I posted solves that issue pretty well.
Canozo
17 posts
Joined December 2012
Canozo
I don't see how keeping Qualified scoreboards but not rewarding performance points until ranked will do anything positive. If the map gets ranked, the score is kept and so the pp is "kept"as well, you just don't get it until it's ranked. If the map gets unranked you lose the score, and so you "lose" the pp.

I can see people complaining about "Losing their amazing scores", might as well remove scoreboards to avoid these kind of conflicts with the players.
[ Setsuna ]
422 posts
Joined October 2013
[ Setsuna ]
To the people complaining about losing your plays, please press f2 at the score screen.

As for the scores, it's stated that:

"During this week, there is a high chance they will return to pending if an issue is found.
If they return to pending, scores will be wiped."

To appeal to these people that say that they didn't read it, that's your problem and not peppy or any of the osu!staff's problems, but I suppose peppy could somehow work in a warning when you start up any qualified map. Possibly from banchobot?
Heinzen
149 posts
Joined October 2010
Heinzen

peppy wrote:

jesus1412 wrote:

I feel like dumb fucks will complain double about "not getting pp from X map" if the pp is removed.
I completely agree.

Triple that. Didn't consider this possibility when voting.

Also, in regards to the 3rd option (sorry if this has been asked before, I can't really read through everything now), "Keep them but don't reward performance points until ranked" this means that if the map gets ranked, the scores are kept and just then the points are being given, right?
Ciyus Miapah
3,011 posts
Joined June 2013
Ciyus Miapah
This category is recommended for people who:
  1. Want to play cutting-edge maps.
  2. Want to help keep map quality top-notch!
  3. Don't mind having scores removed occasionally
don't give pp on qualified maps please
especially for pp farmer they are can see pp worth before this map gets ranked
give pp after map gets ranked (if map didnt dq'ed).

add only score on top50 so we can see something there
maboesanman
35 posts
Joined August 2012
maboesanman
I think the maps should appear in top scores, but be grayed out, and the score not counted in player performance. That way people could tell how much a map gave, but wouldn't feel like it was taken from them.

Second: I think the md5 hash should only be of the hitobject data and difficulty data, not of the song title and artist name, etc. that way DQ's from incorrect information (Maneria for example) would not wipe scores, but changes in the map or difficulty would wipe scores, as they should.
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
mappers dont listen to what people who play a qualified map have to say, you'll get a nice "you shouldve modded it before it was qualified" if you do.
picking the third option would not only have no effect on the amount of drama. but, as jesus said, it would also cause a lot of confusion.

my vote goes to yes

Lust wrote:

Pretty sure Lanturn mentioned this earlier, but I'd rather go with a completely different tactic. Players can continue to compete and earn pp while in qualified, but their scores and pp gains are wiped. This will allow people to test their playing abilities (and the beatmap, provide feedback if needed too), see how the map will affect their overall pp, and avoid heartbreak when a map is disqualified since they were going to lose the pp anyway. It fits the whole "cutting edge" motif qualified beatmaps have. In multiple alpha/beta tests, most of the time you don't carry your work into the finished product (mmos with their character data, for example).

Of course, players that don't already mind losing their scores will play in qualified maps (those that should be) so they won't complain/cause a drama. Those that do mind, however, will stay away and wait the process out (or give the beatmap a try). We'll definitely need some sort of qualified indicator ingame if this were to happen though.

If we can't do the above, then it is the third option for me :D
i actually like this idea (and the reasoning behind it) a lot.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
My opinion:

Qualified maps should not give PP
  • Reason: See MANIERA drama. The leaderboards literally got fucked up due to it's disqualify and requalify.
There must be a message in red on the qualified listing saying, "YOU WILL NOT GET PP FROM THESE MAPS"
  • Reason:

    jesus1412 wrote:

    I feel like dumb fucks will complain double about "not getting pp from X map" if the pp is removed.
Qualified maps should be clearly indicated as "Latest QUALIFIED version".
  • Reason: Better indication in-game
Qualified maps should allow score listing:
  • Reason: More incentive to play the map, thus more feedback. It's also fun trying to beat other scores in DT mania while the scores are low.
Spaghetti
1,118 posts
Joined August 2014
Spaghetti
What I wonder is what would happen if the scoreboard is there but the map gives no pp for qualification, and then the map gets permaranked? Would those scores just give them the pp? Will they have to reset the scores?
Renevant
894 posts
Joined July 2013
Renevant
Third option is fine. Just give a big notification on the map so people will be less likely to complain.
phaZ
739 posts
Joined October 2011
phaZ
i would prefer to have an icon for qualified status, else i am also pleased with the third option (no pp till ranked status)
Beomsan
1,878 posts
Joined November 2013
Beomsan
The problem is that knowing that a record is deleted to update the score and express dissatisfaction.

I really really cant understand that
ithgyu
468 posts
Joined October 2014
ithgyu
Now that I think about it the 3rd option wouldn't change much, it's a step in the right direction but generally you can guess what sort of pp you will get from a play, so people will just complain about losing the pp they would have got, instead of the pp they already got. I think lust's suggestion is great, playing a qualified map gives no permanent pp, that way at least if people are gonna complain they will complain about the system rather that the QATs and the bs ranking criteria(but that's a much bigger discussion and this isn't the time and place to go into it)
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