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Wagakki Band - Tengaku

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Dreamtwolf
Happystick said this map is "copy paste"
jodmangel
Like someone said above, quite a few notes near the start sound mistimed if I'm not completely deaf. Here are some of the ones I noticed:

00:31:911 (4) -
00:34:885 (9,10,11) -
00:35:273 (1) -
00:35:661 (3,4,5,6) -
00:37:213 (4,5,6,7,1) - Aren't these four notes?
00:39:799 (2,3,4,5) -
00:43:161 (12,13,14,15,16) - Seems like four notes as well, though with different timing.
00:43:937 (3,5) -
00:44:971 (1) -

Edit: Forgot to say, those are all timed early I believe.

There's a few more that I'm unsure about. I'd really suggest someone that is actually good at timing to take a look at this.
Myxo
I have to take this map down for questionable timing.
The intro part has messed up timing, most of the time it's early. I will point out some examples below:

00:31:264 (1,2,3,4,5) - the offset seems early on (2) and (4), not as extreme as the following ones though
00:32:558 (3,4,5,6) - early
00:34:497 (7) - early
00:34:885 (9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6) - very early
etc.. this happens in almost every measure until 00:47:815 - the intro is over. There might be timing issues later in the song as well.

There are also wrongly snapped objects and other rhythm issues. Again there might be more than that:

00:31:264 - The part up until this point is pretty questionable. The rhythms are hard to read and feel pretty awkward to play. The slidershapes mostly look pretty odd and random. 00:19:885 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - These sliders feel to fast for the calm sounds.
00:32:428 (1,2,3,4,5) - vs 00:40:703 (1,2,3) - The first one feels odd because the intentional overmap for the flute and the much stronger drum triplet are combined in one stack. The second one feels odd because the drum triplet was ignored.
00:34:885 (9,10,11,12) - Should be 1/6
00:42:644 (11) - Why does this slider end on a blue tick?
00:47:298 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - A slider would fit much better here, the overmap doesn't fit well.

I am not a timing expert, but these issues are clearly hearable when listening on 50% and they are noticable in gameplay too. This map definitely needs to be checked by timing experts before it can go back to qualified. Good luck!
Topic Starter
Shiro
That took a while. Lucky for me, I am a timing expert, so I'll take a look at it. I admit I did not check the timing Faust gave me, so I guess now is time to.
Epiphany
tbh i didnt really notice any timing issues when playing and i realize something like that normally.. :/ but well, everyone does mistakes :p
GoldenWolf

Shiro wrote:

Lucky for me, I am a timing expert, so I'll take a look at it.
And you didn't hear the intro was completely off while mapping it? By something like 60ms at times? Come on now..
Topic Starter
Shiro

GoldenWolf wrote:

Shiro wrote:

Lucky for me, I am a timing expert, so I'll take a look at it.
And you didn't hear the intro was completely off while mapping it? By something like 60ms at times? Come on now..
I mostly ignored it because it's based on a flute and timing flutes is horrible because unlike drum hits they don't have a strong start. I knew it was approximative but didn't think it would be a problem. Every testplayer I've seen has hit the intro correctly, so I just didn't bother re-timing the map. Now I will though.
fieryrage
ye i tried bringing this up earlier but i guess it got lost in the swarm of posts and praise
hopefully this map gets back to qualified real soon after the timing issues are fixed o7
Topic Starter
Shiro

Dreamtwolf wrote:

00:15:618 (5) - This note is actually random, I really don't know what part of the music it matches so remove this note. I wanted to mimic 00:10:510 (3,4) - (replacing the slider with a circle) because it sounded really cool to me and ended the long slider in a much more interesting way. I don't think the note is too much of a problem, so I'll keep it for now.
00:37:730 (2,3) & 00:38:247 (1,2,3,4) - These notes are kind of unreadable since it's hard to snap with ar10 especially when the jumps change elevation each time. These are extremely easy to read.
01:12:126 (1,2,3,4) - change back to the triangles since these hourglass jumps come unexpected from where they're placed. Again, not a problem to read. The jumps are built like this: 01:12:126 (1,2) - medium spacing to keep the map going at a fairly fast pace, then 01:12:384 (3,4) - big jumps for those to emphasize the double snare hit, then 01:12:514 (4,5) - lower jump to avoid emphasizing 01:12:643 (5) - which isn't emphasized in the song, then a stack 01:12:643 (5,1) - because the song basically stops for a short moment at that point.
01:39:540 (4,5,6) - Hitsound for Note 5 does not blend in with 4 because of Note 6. replaced for a slider
02:31:652 (6) & 02:31:782 (1,2,3,4) & 02:32:298 (1,2,3,4) & 02:32:815 (1,2,3,4) - The old version of these jumps(1,2,3,4,5 into notes that went up and down) were actually easier than this version since the notes make the player read more and aim and snap more in this version making the old version better than this. I went over this part over 5 times with 0.25 speed and I did see the correlation between the old version. I'm aware, but testplayers said the jumps as they were before were a bit boring, so I did that to improve them!
02:39:152 (4) - this slider should be smaller and the slider end hitsound should be this note's (02:30:229 (1))
hitsound which is soft&finish I like the slider being smaller here but I don't understand what you mean with the hitsound
03:08:505 (1,2) - decrease the distance between these notes O_O :|
03:10:057 (4,5,6,7) - will look better if 03:10:402 (8,9) looked the same and connected I actually don't understand what you mean here. ?_?
03:32:945 (1,2,3) - shouldn't be a new combo only because 03:33:333 (1) starts and new combo fast and notes with the number 1 give more health than notes that have a number 2 or 3 etc... removed the new combo
04:09:022 (1) - No new combo here but instead, here 04:09:540 which had already been done and it matches the part of the music in which you are following since the notes that the actual drummer is playing gets a tad bit higher
04:10:057 (1) - No new combo but the drummer is still playing the note that is higher
04:33:850 (1) - No new combo but instead..... ok you get it it's the same as the part 04:09:022 (1) i mentioned
04:34:884 (1) - same deal here, no new combo but instead the notes should continue to be numbered instead of a new combo
For all three: I'm keeping the comboing on those patterns consistent, see
04:43:678 (1) to the spinner - Really I mean really, the rule ^^ should not apply here because it matches the singer and it's so good, really great job!(leave it as it is since it's really good) thank you

- Amazing Song Selection and Hitsound Selection. This map can truly become something astounding. Thank you, it makes me fairly happy to hear something like this about one of my maps

fieryrage wrote:

i should've modded this before it got qualified but i didn't know this was actually a fun map whoops
short mod though

00:15:553 - pretty sure I hear a note here which could make 00:15:618 (5) - a lot easier to sightread
00:35:273 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - this sounds really off, like, 50 ms off, could just be me though
00:39:539 (1,2,3,4,5) - ^
00:50:272 (1,2) - am I the only person that misread this first try like I seriously thought this would be a different back and forth pattern like 00:49:238 (3,4,5,6,7,8) -
This will be fixed with the new timing
02:27:514 - shouldn't there be a note here along with every other part like this? doesn't really make sense that you added notes on the later parts at 04:39:928 (6) - and not anywhere else
04:15:100 - ^
No, this is actually a growing pattern that structures the map. If you look at rhythms, you've got xxxxx x (x x) for the first occurence, then xxxxx x x, then xxxxx x x x, which means the pattern becomes denser as the map progresses and requires more clicks!

i legit actually love this map i'm surprised i didn't find this earlier Thank you!

jodmangel wrote:

Like someone said above, quite a few notes near the start sound mistimed if I'm not completely deaf. Here are some of the ones I noticed:

00:31:911 (4) -
00:34:885 (9,10,11) -
00:35:273 (1) -
00:35:661 (3,4,5,6) -
00:37:213 (4,5,6,7,1) - Aren't these four notes?
00:39:799 (2,3,4,5) -
00:43:161 (12,13,14,15,16) - Seems like four notes as well, though with different timing.
00:43:937 (3,5) -
00:44:971 (1) -

Edit: Forgot to say, those are all timed early I believe.

There's a few more that I'm unsure about. I'd really suggest someone that is actually good at timing to take a look at this.

All this will be fixed with the new timing. As I said in a post previous, I am a timing expert but I didn't bother looking at the timing I got from Faust's version. This is a mistake on my end, as I should have at least checked it. I considered the introduction to be easy enough not to require very accurate timing, as every testplayer got everything right on their first try.

Desperate-kun wrote:

I have to take this map down for questionable timing.
The intro part has messed up timing, most of the time it's early. I will point out some examples below:

00:31:264 (1,2,3,4,5) - the offset seems early on (2) and (4), not as extreme as the following ones though
00:32:558 (3,4,5,6) - early
00:34:497 (7) - early
00:34:885 (9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6) - very early
etc.. this happens in almost every measure until 00:47:815 - the intro is over. There might be timing issues later in the song as well.

Charles and myself are looking at the timing. We will issue a better one.

There are also wrongly snapped objects and other rhythm issues. Again there might be more than that:

00:31:264 - The part up until this point is pretty questionable. The rhythms are hard to read and feel pretty awkward to play. The slidershapes mostly look pretty odd and random. 00:19:885 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - These sliders feel to fast for the calm sounds. I'm not going to change any of the sliders nor remove the introduction, which is needed for the map to reach 5 minutes drain time. One could argue that the introduction (as well as the end) are t themselves fairly random, but I didn't map them with that in mind. The use of MANY sliders in the introduction allows for a big error margin for the approximative flute playing. Unlike what you said, the rhythms are neither hard to read nor awkward to play. None of the testplayers (before or after qualification) complained about such things, so I'm not going to change them.
00:32:428 (1,2,3,4,5) - vs 00:40:703 (1,2,3) - The first one feels odd because the intentional overmap for the flute and the much stronger drum triplet are combined in one stack. The second one feels odd because the drum triplet was ignored. Changed both to match the drums.
00:34:885 (9,10,11,12) - Should be 1/6 I'm not too sure about that. I'll wait for the new timing.
00:42:644 (11) - Why does this slider end on a blue tick? There was a note at 00:42:901 - but it seems I deleted it by accident x_x
00:47:298 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - A slider would fit much better here, the overmap doesn't fit well. To you. This goes with the trill in the flute and provides an amazing introduction to the first part of the map that is actually energic. I'm not changing this.

I am not a timing expert, but these issues are clearly hearable when listening on 50% and they are noticable in gameplay too. This map definitely needs to be checked by timing experts before it can go back to qualified. Good luck! As I said earlier, the timing is being looked at by Charles and myself. We'll get the new timing ready asap. Thanks for taking the time to look at this.
EDIT: for the three modders (except Desperate-kun who already got his kd) can you re-post in the thread so I can award you kd?
fieryrage
i already posted but sure
gl requalifying
Topic Starter
Shiro
Changes applied and new timing used. Let's get this back to qualified now.
emilia
This is one of the maps I really can't see being ranked

but I'd really really f*ckin' enjoy it if it did

Good job on this, Shiro!
buny
shouldn't the kiai times start at 02:14:710 and 04:02:296 instead? The sections just before these timestamps are weak sections of the song used to emphasise the upcoming chorus, and I believe you should only be using kiai time on only one section (the strong section), not both.

I also think the preview point should be 02:14:193, but that doesn't bother me. I didn't recognise the song because you had it previewed at such a weird part, though.


also a lot of subjective modding coming:

00:07:533 (3) - I see that you ended the slider on another flute beat, but the spacing to the next slider is awkward since the spacing is 1/2. Personally I'd make the slider repeat to remove that awkward pause, as well as making the spacing similar

00:09:983 (1) - any reason why you chose not to sustain the flute to 1/4 like the others?

00:10:508 (3) - slider end should be 1/4 shorter

00:13:814 (2) - remove this, completely unnecessary

00:15:624 (5) - ^

00:22:534 (3) - either move this closer to the slider, or move the upcoming sliders a bit further. This 1/4 spacing is way too similar to the 1/2 spacing of the upcoming sliders.

00:31:542 (2) - would play a lot better and flow better if it were stacked onto the next slider imo

00:31:930 (4) - ^

00:42:894 (12) - way too much spacing for a 1/4

00:51:415 (1,2,3,4) - why is this spaced much more than 00:55:563 (1,2,3,4)

01:03:839 (9) - NC?

01:06:046 (9) - NC should start here

01:06:434 (1) - change this to 1/2 slider, random 1/1s are very awkward to play if you do it in the middle of a section

01:18:330 (4) - you could do something with this, maybe a 1/8 or 1/6 repeat slider

01:18:460 (5,6,7,8,9,10) - this stream doesn't really fit the music, I'd do kick sliders instead to emphasise the heavy beats

01:24:538 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - this plays to nothing, and you missed a very good opportunity to put some nice jumps to emphasise the beats!

01:28:482 (3) - remove this, plays to nothing

01:42:124 (1,2,3,4,5) - I assume you were following the vocals on the previous part before, so why the sudden change?

01:44:193 (4) - as said before, the 1/4 spacing is very similar to the upcoming 1/2 spacing

01:44:710 (7,10) - ^, you could also add NC to these repeating patterns

01:59:969 (4,5,6,7,1) - why is this a stream? If you're going to add a stream on sustained notes, then the stream should be connected to the slider before it

02:00:357 (2) - ctrl + g for better flow, back and forth patterns with sliders are terrible to play and plus this is the only section where you did it like this for some reason

02:00:745 (4) - ^

02:01:132 (6) - ^

02:01:520 (8) - ^ and also understates the huge spacing spike from 02:01:779 (1) onward

02:04:236 (4) - the vocal actually starts on the blue tick

02:05:270 (4) - ^

02:07:985 (2) - if you're emphasising vocals, the NC should start here instead

02:09:408 (4) - the vocal actually starts on the blue tick

02:11:219 (4,5) - these beats should be moved on the blue tick to the right. Also take this chance to do something creative with it

02:12:253 (4,5,6) - this sounds really weird? could be same as ^

02:27:512 - add 1/2 circle there is a beat there

02:28:546 - ^

02:29:581 - ^

02:30:615 - ^

02:53:632 (5) - remove this, it looks like you're strictly following vocals so this is completely unnecessary

03:06:046 (5,6,7,8,9,10) - like 01:18:460 (5,6,7,8,9,10) if you're going to put streams on sustained beats, then start the stream on the sustained beat.

03:09:408 (1,2,3) - very very very very very hard to read patterns like this, please change it or add some sort of indication emphasising the 1/1 going to 1/2.

03:11:477 (1,2,3) - ^

03:13:546 (1,2,3) - ^

03:32:684 (2,3,4,5) - ^

04:14:710 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - what I said about the previous kiai, you're missing some 1/2 beats between some of the quin streams

04:20:917 (1) - looks like you wanted to avoid mapping the rest of that section tbh. Shorten this spinner so that you can map the beats that come after it, or better yet just use a slider for 04:20:788 (4) and map 04:21:693

04:26:219 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - streams sound very offputting if you silent-hitsound every second note. Please don't

04:26:606 (7) - I think this should be a slider to emphasise the sustaining vocal, because the instrument is still playing. 04:27:124 (8) is very appropriate though

04:27:641 (1) - I think you should map the two 1/2s that come before it, to give emphasis to the upcoming kiai

04:27:641 (1) - this would sound better with a 1/2 slider instead, or at least another 1/2 note coming after it

04:39:926 (6,6,6,6) - wtf now you start mapping that 1/2 lol

04:46:522 (1) - I'd map the vocals as sliders, spinners should only be used for very long sustained notes
Topic Starter
Shiro

a loli wrote:

shouldn't the kiai times start at 02:14:710 and 04:02:296 instead? The sections just before these timestamps are weak sections of the song used to emphasise the upcoming chorus, and I believe you should only be using kiai time on only one section (the strong section), not both. That's... where they're already starting ?_?

I also think the preview point should be 02:14:193, but that doesn't bother me. I didn't recognise the song because you had it previewed at such a weird part, though. Changed it, thanks.


also a lot of subjective modding coming:

00:07:533 (3) - I see that you ended the slider on another flute beat, but the spacing to the next slider is awkward since the spacing is 1/2. Personally I'd make the slider repeat to remove that awkward pause, as well as making the spacing similar I like the idea of making the slider repeat (once). Changed.

00:09:983 (1) - any reason why you chose not to sustain the flute to 1/4 like the others? The timing section, mostly, which make this unplayable if it had another circle

00:10:508 (3) - slider end should be 1/4 shorter huh no? why would it o_o

00:13:814 (2) - remove this, completely unnecessary Wouldn't be if I could get that damn sliderend snapped

00:15:624 (5) - ^ Not going to debate on this for the 32738124961726487961946981th time. It's staying.

00:22:534 (3) - either move this closer to the slider, or move the upcoming sliders a bit further. This 1/4 spacing is way too similar to the 1/2 spacing of the upcoming sliders. Changed spacings

00:31:542 (2) - would play a lot better and flow better if it were stacked onto the next slider imo would also emphasize the wrong sound, which is a big no-go

00:31:930 (4) - ^ ^

00:42:894 (12) - way too much spacing for a 1/4 This is a lot easier to play than it looks, and achieves perfectly the go-and-stop motion I want for those two and 00:43:146 (13) - .

00:51:415 (1,2,3,4) - why is this spaced much more than 00:55:563 (1,2,3,4) Spaced them equally

01:03:839 (9) - NC? Nothing actually warrants a new combo here

01:06:046 (9) - NC should start here Didn't do exactly this but I reworked the pattern to be more accurate to the vocals.

01:06:434 (1) - change this to 1/2 slider, random 1/1s are very awkward to play if you do it in the middle of a section The spacing allows this to be readable, and I want my stop on that short "yo" note.

01:18:330 (4) - you could do something with this, maybe a 1/8 or 1/6 repeat slider huh no that would play like shit

01:18:460 (5,6,7,8,9,10) - this stream doesn't really fit the music, I'd do kick sliders instead to emphasise the heavy beats It fits the map and provides awesome build up to the next section

01:24:538 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - this plays to nothing, and you missed a very good opportunity to put some nice jumps to emphasise the beats! can you not hear the big stringed instrument?

01:28:482 (3) - remove this, plays to nothing It emphasizes the snare hit and introduces a short break in the movement that helps the square after it to be more sudden, as are the drums in that section

01:42:124 (1,2,3,4,5) - I assume you were following the vocals on the previous part before, so why the sudden change? Because the drums are the main hits at this point, and the vocals are fairly uninteresting, while the durms provide, again, very good build up for the next section.

01:44:193 (4) - as said before, the 1/4 spacing is very similar to the upcoming 1/2 spacing That's made on purpose, it emphasizes the beginning of each repeat of this pattern

01:44:710 (7,10) - ^, you could also add NC to these repeating patterns nope, see reasoning above

01:59:969 (4,5,6,7,1) - why is this a stream? If you're going to add a stream on sustained notes, then the stream should be connected to the slider before it oh, very good catch, thank you, I reworked this part

02:00:357 (2) - ctrl + g for better flow, back and forth patterns with sliders are terrible to play and plus this is the only section where you did it like this for some reason

02:00:745 (4) - ^

02:01:132 (6) - ^

02:01:520 (8) - ^ and also understates the huge spacing spike from 02:01:779 (1) onward
All 4 above: hell no. The whole point of the pattern is this sharp contrast between the jump and the slider

02:04:236 (4) - the vocal actually starts on the blue tick Which is unintuitive and unplayable as fuck, that's why I made it start on the red tick

02:05:270 (4) - ^ ^

02:07:985 (2) - if you're emphasising vocals, the NC should start here instead No. The slider I NC'd starts a new word and a repeated rhythm in the song

02:09:408 (4) - the vocal actually starts on the blue tick see above

02:11:219 (4,5) - these beats should be moved on the blue tick to the right. Also take this chance to do something creative with it see above

02:12:253 (4,5,6) - this sounds really weird? could be same as ^ see above

02:27:512 - add 1/2 circle there is a beat there

02:28:546 - ^

02:29:581 - ^

02:30:615 - ^
To all 4 above: read my answer to a previous mod regarding the structure of the map

02:53:632 (5) - remove this, it looks like you're strictly following vocals so this is completely unnecessary It would introduce a much unwanted hole in the rhythm

03:06:046 (5,6,7,8,9,10) - like 01:18:460 (5,6,7,8,9,10) if you're going to put streams on sustained beats, then start the stream on the sustained beat. this goes with the drums

03:09:408 (1,2,3) - very very very very very hard to read patterns like this, please change it or add some sort of indication emphasising the 1/1 going to 1/2.

03:11:477 (1,2,3) - ^

03:13:546 (1,2,3) - ^

03:32:684 (2,3,4,5) - ^
No. The whole point of this part is that it's somewhat hard to read. Hell, I have yet to see someone fail to read this on first try.

04:14:710 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - what I said about the previous kiai, you're missing some 1/2 beats between some of the quin streams read answer above

04:20:917 (1) - looks like you wanted to avoid mapping the rest of that section tbh. Shorten this spinner so that you can map the beats that come after it, or better yet just use a slider for 04:20:788 (4) and map 04:21:693 Yeah I wanted to avoid the awkward stream -> stream transition but ok.

04:26:219 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - streams sound very offputting if you silent-hitsound every second note. Please don't I do not have any silent hitsounds.

04:26:606 (7) - I think this should be a slider to emphasise the sustaining vocal, because the instrument is still playing. 04:27:124 (8) is very appropriate though yay more gimmick

04:27:641 (1) - I think you should map the two 1/2s that come before it, to give emphasis to the upcoming kiai I want a hard reset with 04:27:641 (1) - . That was the idea behind the circles, but I guess sliders work too.

04:27:641 (1) - this would sound better with a 1/2 slider instead, or at least another 1/2 note coming after it ^

04:39:926 (6,6,6,6) - wtf now you start mapping that 1/2 lol readtheansweraboveaboutstructureffs

04:46:522 (1) - I'd map the vocals as sliders, spinners should only be used for very long sustained notes okay
Thanks for looking at this. You seem to have missed two major things about the map: its structure and its cores. The structure I explained above, but you don't seem to have caught that the map revolves around two things: the back-and-forth (as there are many repeating rhythms in the song) and the patterns that are "difficult" to read (as in more than my usual mapping). =(
buny
what I mean is the kiai at 01:45:745 and 03:33:331 doesn't really fit, since you already have kiais on the chorus
Ambu5h
Dont give kudosu if you rejected more than half of mod

00:44:984 (1) - i'm not sure, but this sounds a litle bit off time, maybe i'm deaf though
00:47:316 (3) - maybe clap is better instead of finish? also maube folowing note NC?
00:49:734 (6,7) - sounds a bit too late, maybe its 1/12 left on the time scale? not sure though, also how about adding finish to 7 to emphasize this note?
if you agreed with hitsounding of previous notes then maybe its better to move finish from end of 00:50:649 (3) - to the folowing note, if you disagreed - ignore this
00:51:798 (4) - maybe remove finish hitsound and put it on the beginning of folowing slider? you can also add finish to 00:51:670 (3) - but its optionally
00:51:926 (1,2,3) - is this spacing okey? actually nwm, you use spacing like this a lot, so guess its ok
00:53:882 (3) - better put finish on the previous note
00:56:856 (1) - how about moving finish from end to beginning and also adding finish to the beginning of the folowing slider, i think it goes well enough with the flute
00:57:761 (6) - maybe this slider ends 1/12 left on time scale?
00:58:408 (4) - add finish
00:58:925 (3) - maybe finish in the beginning?
00:58:537 (1,2,3) - maybe 1- finish in the end, 2 - finish, 3 - finish in the beginning and in the end?
01:00:994 (4) - maybe add finish to this note and to the beginning of folowing slider
01:03:839 (9) - new combo? sorry, i didnt read previous post
02:14:193 (1) - maybe + clap?
02:39:020 (3,4) - meybe + finish at the beginning to emphasize flute?
02:43:676 (1) - add finish to the beginning
02:44:451 (1,2) - flute sound here, so maybe add finish to the beginning of sliders?
02:45:593 (1,2) - maybe these notes also needs to be moved left 1/12, also how about adding finish to 2?
02:46:908 (3) - add finish to the end
02:47:555 (3) - add finish
02:49:107 (2) - finish to the beginning
03:49:494 (10) - new combo?
04:01:779 (1) - maybe add clap?
04:18:848 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - maybe change all these jumps to ora ora ora star form pattern, so it would be more fun to aim?
04:23:891 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - same
04:56:334 (4) - i personally think that this slider is reversal and folowing is not, but i can be wrong

also aimod thinks this 04:20:917 (1) - spinner is too short, but guess its fine, no one will SS this map anyway

i cant say anything about flow, i never played 7* maps (relax doesnt count), when i tryed to aim this i got nearly ~150 misses, but still think that note placement is good

i tried to change some hitsounds in order to make map more energetic and shared my thoughts above, but you can ignore all of this if you want, because your map sounds well enough

also i agree with previous post about kiais

if noone of my sugestions is helpful im sorry for wasting your time

thanks third time for helping with timing
Topic Starter
Shiro

freebird42 wrote:

Dont give kudosu if you rejected more than half of mod

00:44:984 (1) - i'm not sure, but this sounds a litle bit off time, maybe i'm deaf though It technically is, but at this point the drums are way too unstable to even be timed perfectly. This is the best compromise!
00:47:316 (3) - maybe clap is better instead of finish? also maube folowing note NC? oooooh I like the clap here thanks! Also, no new combo on blue ticks ever unless you're mapping a superlowBPM song (like Firesong)
00:49:734 (6,7) - sounds a bit too late, maybe its 1/12 left on the time scale? not sure though, also how about adding finish to 7 to emphasize this note? They are too late but again, it's not possible to perfectly time this section. What I did is a compromise between "perfect" timing and playability. Also, (6) has the finish.
if you agreed with hitsounding of previous notes then maybe its better to move finish from end of 00:50:649 (3) - to the folowing note, if you disagreed - ignore this I did move the finish
00:51:798 (4) - maybe remove finish hitsound and put it on the beginning of folowing slider? you can also add finish to 00:51:670 (3) - but its optionally hmm okay, that makes sense
00:51:926 (1,2,3) - is this spacing okey? actually nwm, you use spacing like this a lot, so guess its ok yeah it's fine, it emphasizes 00:52:317 (3) - without emphasizing 00:52:186 (2) -
00:53:882 (3) - better put finish on the previous note no I'm following the finishes in the song and this one's here
00:56:856 (1) - how about moving finish from end to beginning and also adding finish to the beginning of the folowing slider, i think it goes well enough with the flute moved finish but didn't add another one because there's simply no cymbals at that point
00:57:761 (6) - maybe this slider ends 1/12 left on time scale? no that would be unplayable
00:58:408 (4) - add finish no cymbals
00:58:925 (3) - maybe finish in the beginning? reworked this part
00:58:537 (1,2,3) - maybe 1- finish in the end, 2 - finish, 3 - finish in the beginning and in the end? no cymbals
01:00:994 (4) - maybe add finish to this note and to the beginning of folowing slider ^
01:03:839 (9) - new combo? sorry, i didnt read previous post
02:14:193 (1) - maybe + clap? That doesn't fit at all, there's no snare here
02:39:020 (3,4) - meybe + finish at the beginning to emphasize flute? already emphasized with whistles
02:43:676 (1) - add finish to the beginning no cymbals
02:44:451 (1,2) - flute sound here, so maybe add finish to the beginning of sliders? flute is emphasized via whistles, finishes only go with cymbal crashes in the song
02:45:593 (1,2) - maybe these notes also needs to be moved left 1/12, also how about adding finish to 2? that would be unplayable D:
02:46:908 (3) - add finish to the end
02:47:555 (3) - add finish
02:49:107 (2) - finish to the beginning
all three: again, no cymbals
03:49:494 (10) - new combo? huh that doesn't really make sense, the stream finishes the previous patterns
04:01:779 (1) - maybe add clap? again, there's a reason why this has no hitsounds =P
04:18:848 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - maybe change all these jumps to ora ora ora star form pattern, so it would be more fun to aim? no, the whole idea of these patterns is to be increasing back and forths
04:23:891 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - same = =
04:56:334 (4) - i personally think that this slider is reversal and folowing is not, but i can be wrong ??? o.O

also aimod thinks this 04:20:917 (1) - spinner is too short, but guess its fine, no one will SS this map anyway I'll have to see with BNs/QATs for this, auto does get 1000 bonus for me o.O

i cant say anything about flow, i never played 7* maps (relax doesnt count), when i tryed to aim this i got nearly ~150 misses, but still think that note placement is good

i tried to change some hitsounds in order to make map more energetic and shared my thoughts above, but you can ignore all of this if you want, because your map sounds well enough

also i agree with previous post about kiais

if noone of my sugestions is helpful im sorry for wasting your time

thanks third time for helping with timing
Thanks for the mod.
Faust
PUT THE VIDEO PUT IT IN I SAY

Filesize is too big. What an absolute kill-joy.
Topic Starter
Shiro

Faust wrote:

Filesize is too big. What an absolute kill-joy.
t0g3pii
Nice map^^ But pls try to get the Filesize smaller^^
Pokoulie
amazing map.
Juris
SPOILER
02:21:046 IMO I think the use of squares would be much better here, but make them go square-diamond-square-diamond pattern
02:31:262 Squares could be used here again
Some of your combos go past 10, try aiming for 6-9 on combo.
03:29:193 Again with the back-forth jumps, where i'd see a great use of squares. The squares would work here especially because 03:31:262 - 03:33:331 uses squares, would make that entire section consistent.
These same square and pattern related things occur later in the song but I think you get the idea from what i've currently addressed.

I really like squares and polygons and sliders, I like the polygon and star jumps but the backwards and forwards jumps make the map at some parts look ugly, just at those parts though. The rest of the map is great. This is just my opinion.
Topic Starter
Shiro

tyom wrote:

SPOILER
02:21:046 IMO I think the use of squares would be much better here, but make them go square-diamond-square-diamond pattern
02:31:262 Squares could be used here again
Some of your combos go past 10, try aiming for 6-9 on combo.
03:29:193 Again with the back-forth jumps, where i'd see a great use of squares. The squares would work here especially because 03:31:262 - 03:33:331 uses squares, would make that entire section consistent.
These same square and pattern related things occur later in the song but I think you get the idea from what i've currently addressed.

I really like squares and polygons and sliders, I like the polygon and star jumps but the backwards and forwards jumps make the map at some parts look ugly, just at those parts though. The rest of the map is great. This is just my opinion.
As I explained on IRC, the back and forth patterns are one of the two cores of the map. I don't want to lose them (for various reasons) for squares, which would be less consistent in terms of structure. Thanks for your input, though!
Seiko_old_1
get this ranked already ):, awesome map
gilherme boulos

Pokoulie wrote:

amazing map.
Monstrata
Fixed up some snapping issues. Lets get this rebubbled! :D
Anxient

monstrata wrote:

Fixed up some snapping issues. Lets get this rebubbled! :D
about time
fieryrage
there we go
Gero
Let's give it a chance, best of luck.
~ Bubbled #2 ~
Natsu
did some irc

things
2015-12-18 00:45 Shiro: poke owo
2015-12-18 00:46 Natsu: yo!
2015-12-18 00:46 Shiro: Gero bubbled
2015-12-18 00:46 Shiro: ._.
2015-12-18 00:46 Natsu: what
2015-12-18 00:46 Natsu: so fast LOL
2015-12-18 00:46 Natsu: oh he just told me lmao
2015-12-18 00:46 Shiro: I expected a mod
2015-12-18 00:47 Natsu: mmm
2015-12-18 00:47 Natsu: /np
2015-12-18 00:53 Shiro: are you going to irc mod it
2015-12-18 00:53 Shiro: or make a post ?
2015-12-18 00:53 Natsu: i ask u for link :c
2015-12-18 00:53 Natsu: and u ignore me, how I do feel about that!
2015-12-18 00:53 Shiro: I didn't receive that
2015-12-18 00:54 Natsu: lol idk maybe irc
2015-12-18 00:54 Shiro: ACTION is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/816327 Wagakki Band - Tengaku]
2015-12-18 00:54 Shiro: http://puu.sh/lZTdm/63096e7224.jpg
2015-12-18 00:55 Natsu: weird O.o, well my net did fail a it in morning, so probably still not working fine
2015-12-18 00:55 Natsu: you have correct metadata and timing now?
2015-12-18 00:55 Shiro: metadata was always correct
2015-12-18 00:56 Shiro: timing has been checked by Charles and me
2015-12-18 00:57 Natsu: oh then cool, really different from my ver xD
2015-12-18 00:57 Shiro: ye
2015-12-18 00:57 Shiro: ah
2015-12-18 00:57 Shiro: redownload
2015-12-18 00:57 Shiro: I fixed a delay on a hitsound
2015-12-18 00:58 Shiro: after the DQ
2015-12-18 00:58 Natsu: yes I did :p
2015-12-18 00:58 Shiro: okay
2015-12-18 00:58 Natsu: BTW, you really want to keep this diff name?
2015-12-18 00:59 Shiro: yeah it's funny
2015-12-18 01:00 Natsu: 00:39:548 - u dont need this green line, anyways let me check hitsounds delay as well, tbh I don't think i can suggest much stuff, since the map is well structured
2015-12-18 01:01 Natsu: normal-hitfinish7.wav 8 and 9 still have like 4 - 5 ms delay
2015-12-18 01:03 Shiro: o.o these are the standard hitsounds
2015-12-18 01:03 Shiro: ill fix them
2015-12-18 01:03 Natsu: really o.o, check them out i just did, is between 4 and 5, but people complain about them nowadays
2015-12-18 01:04 Natsu: soft-hitfinish 9 too
2015-12-18 01:04 Natsu: seems is the same
2015-12-18 01:08 Shiro: updated
2015-12-18 01:08 Natsu: 00:33:338 (6,1) - areu sure about the overlap? I'd just avoid it, ot atleastadd a bit more spacing, maybe too hidden atm
2015-12-18 01:09 Shiro: ill change the slider a bit
2015-12-18 01:09 Shiro: too
2015-12-18 01:09 Natsu: 01:03:839 (9) - no NC?
2015-12-18 01:10 Shiro: http://puu.sh/lZTOC/7e3af05aa9.jpg looks better
2015-12-18 01:10 Natsu: Yeah it does
2015-12-18 01:10 Shiro: no, the stream ends the pattern, it shouldn't have a nc
2015-12-18 01:12 Natsu: 01:34:236 (4,5) - you didn't overlap here,. so 01:34:882 (7,8) - looks a bit weird being overlaped tbh
2015-12-18 01:12 Shiro: ah good point
2015-12-18 01:12 Shiro: didn't notice when i redid that pattern
2015-12-18 01:14 Natsu: 02:10:831 (2,3,4) - the different stacks are a bit troll to play sometimes even a low bpm, but I guess is part of the map difficulty
2015-12-18 01:16 Natsu: 02:38:762 (2,3) - flow feels really forced here
2015-12-18 01:16 Natsu: tbh not sure how the stack leniency will play at this point !?
2015-12-18 01:16 Shiro: hmmm
2015-12-18 01:16 Shiro: stacked 2 on 02:10:572 (1) -
2015-12-18 01:17 Shiro: ah that's on purpose
2015-12-18 01:17 Shiro: the whole pattern has good flow but 02:39:020 (3,4) - go against it so it isolates them
2015-12-18 01:17 Shiro: that's why they're sliders and not circles
2015-12-18 01:17 Shiro: it enforces it
2015-12-18 01:20 Natsu: 03:32:426 (1,2) - vs 03:32:943 (3,4) -
2015-12-18 01:21 Natsu: maybe make the spacing different?
2015-12-18 01:21 Shiro: huh why
2015-12-18 01:22 Natsu: different gaps in timeline,. but maybe still readable, up to you
2015-12-18 01:23 Natsu: 04:02:296 (2) - really mising the NC here, but I know why u doing it tho
2015-12-18 01:23 Shiro: ya that's not a problem to read
2015-12-18 01:24 Shiro: theres no nc on 02:14:710 (2) - either
2015-12-18 01:24 Shiro: because it's still the same vocal phrase
2015-12-18 01:24 Natsu: ye i know wasfiguring what to do, but your way is best
2015-12-18 01:25 Natsu: 04:47:815 (7,8) - reduce volume a bit?
2015-12-18 01:27 Natsu: 04:56:600 (5) - remove the repeat?
2015-12-18 01:28 Natsu: and updated lets see if we survive haha
2015-12-18 01:29 Shiro: removing the repeat would make the spacing kind of confusing
2015-12-18 01:29 Shiro: also don't you see the symmetry with 04:55:982 (3,4,5) -
2015-12-18 01:30 Natsu: Yeah, but still think the music sounds better without it, anyways your call!
Natsu
Lets try again! ;)
-Kanzaki
Stack stack stack :D
Anxient

Natsu wrote:

Lets try again! ;)
about time
Aiceo
I'm sorry to be rude but, what the actual fuck is this?
Raiden

Aiceo wrote:

I'm sorry to be rude but, what the actual fuck is this?
a map

no problem mate, anytime
-Kanzaki

Raiden wrote:

Aiceo wrote:

I'm sorry to be rude but, what the actual fuck is this?
a map

no problem mate, anytime


riktoi
gib lower ar pls
Jon
Nice job! :D Told you that you could get it re-qualified!
Distant years
Sorry, I hate this

makes 0 sense to me
Mazzerin
ok i don't know where to begin, lets start with hitsounds/green lines for example
why
00:31:329 - snap to 00:31:348
00:31:458 - snap to 00:31:477
00:31:717 - snap to 00:31:736
00:31:846 - snap to 00:31:865
00:32:105 - snap to 00:32:124
00:32:234 - snap to 00:32:253
00:32:428 - snap to 00:32:439
00:32:558 - snap to 00:32:568
00:33:463 - snap to 00:33:467
00:35:208 - snap to 00:35:231
00:36:243 - snap to 00:36:225
00:36:372 - snap to 00:36:355
00:37:245 - snap to 00:37:231
00:37:439 - snap to 00:37:425
00:37:924 - snap to 00:37:943
00:38:183 - snap to 00:38:201
00:38:571 - snap to 00:38:589
00:40:704 - snap to 00:40:727
00:40:833 - snap to 00:40:857
00:43:743 - snap to 00:43:756
00:43:872 - snap to 00:43:886
00:44:131 - snap to 00:44:144
00:44:260 - snap to 00:44:274
00:44:519 - snap to 00:44:532
00:44:648 - snap to 00:44:662
01:02:492 - snap to 01:02:481
01:02:622 - snap to 01:02:611
01:02:880 - snap to 01:02:869
01:03:009 - snap to 01:02:999
01:03:268 - snap to 01:03:257
01:03:397 - snap to 01:03:386
01:03:656 - snap to 01:03:645
01:03:785 - snap to 01:03:774
01:04:432 - snap to 01:04:421
01:20:919 - snap to 01:20:917
01:28:613 - snap to 01:28:611
02:20:854 - snap to 02:20:852
02:22:923 - snap to 02:22:921
02:27:061 - snap to 02:27:059
02:35:272 - snap to 02:35:270
02:35:402 - snap to 02:35:399
02:49:852 - snap to 02:49:882
02:51:372 - snap to 02:51:369
02:52:212 - snap to 02:52:210
02:59:259 - snap to 02:59:257
02:59:389 - snap to 02:59:387
02:59:971 - snap to 02:59:968
03:08:505 - snap to 03:08:503
03:13:096 - snap to 03:13:093
03:13:225 - snap to 03:13:223
03:15:811 - snap to 03:15:809
03:16:781 - snap to 03:16:779
03:29:130 - snap to 03:29:128
03:32:234 - snap to 03:32:231
04:08:440 - snap to 04:08:438
04:10:509 - snap to 04:10:507
04:14:647 - snap to 04:14:645
04:24:992 - snap to 04:24:990
04:26:576 - snap to 04:26:606
04:33:268 - snap to 04:33:266
04:35:337 - snap to 04:35:335
04:39:475 - snap to 04:39:473
after charles timed this, you didn't bother resnapping these green lines. some of these aren't even needed, for example the one which is supposed to be at 00:32:439 - . some of these aren't needed because they have red lines behind them which could be altered instead of using green lines because you don't change the sv there, for instance this green line that should be snapped to 00:32:568 - .

01:04:292 (16) - this really shouldn't have the same hitsound as the rest of the stream, there's no snare drum here, only the guitar 1/4 sound



  • rhythm selection
  1. alright this section here 00:47:841 - seems to switch downbeats around by 1 1/2 every few measures.
    00:48:734 (1) - here you seem to emphasize it well, (here it switches 1 1/2 back) but the next few are wrong:
    00:49:755 (6) - this note is much stronger yet unemphasized
    00:50:649 (3) - this slider here.. it ends on the downbeat and is unclickable, along with having no hitsounds, then there's a circle right after it that stole the actual downbeats finisher hitsound 00:50:904 (4) -
    next two at 00:51:926 - and 00:52:839 - are fine, but lack of emphasis repeats on 00:53:882 (3) - yet again.
    00:58:020 (1) - ^
    01:01:124 (5) - ^, but this one also lacks a finish hitsound and 01:01:253 (6) - for some reason has one.
    00:56:856 (1) - this sliderhead isnt the strong sound here, the end of it is which is, again, unclickable and unhitsounded.
    00:58:925 (3) - ^
    01:20:917 - same applies to this section
    02:43:676 - first problem i noticed in the 3rd section was here, missing a finish hitsound, then the next downbeat here 02:44:451 (1) - is unclickable etc.
    also, for these sections, change the NCs to fit the "new" downbeats because right now they're literally random from what i see. for example why is this 00:50:011 - nc'd? move it to 00:49:755 (6) - and so on.
  2. next up we have this section 01:04:625 - it seems to heavily focus on vocals and i guess that's okay, but it has this little outro/intro into the next section that would feel better with 01:18:848 (1) - 01:19:365 (3) - these being converted to 2 circles because the guitar riff suggests 3 clicks (3 strong sounds with the last one extended = 1/2 or 3/4 slider). you do it here successfully 01:43:676 - . 02:02:296 - in this section you randomly decide to focus on the vocals after mapping the guitar riffs which obviously stand out the most here 2 times, i do NOT understand why. highly suggest making it consistent and actually follow the instrument that is most audible/dominating.
    03:06:434 (1) - ^
    03:49:882 (1) - ^
  3. 02:27:124 - these sections.. first of all this 02:27:124 (1,2,3,4,5) - obviously isn't 1/4, the only burst in this first section that is 1/4 is this one 02:29:193 (1,2,3,4,5) - , and the one that obviously exposes that the rest are 1/3 is this one 02:30:227 (1) - . you can clearly hear 3 sounds every beat 2 times by the guitar from this one.
    the other object you use in this section is the slider, which is a reverse slider 02:27:641 (6) - . first of all, it does not have any sound at all on any of the reverse arrows. secondly, both sounds are of equal strength which suggests you to use something that would require sufficient force for each.. yes, those are either 2 circles or 2 1/2 sliders, but 1/2 sliders wont fit here as there are no other sounds there and the primary target (the bass drum) isn't an extended sound, that's why circles fit the best.
    04:15:227 (6,7) - here it's done right, but the previous burst is supposed to be 1/3 (this one 04:14:710 (1,2,3,4,5) - ) and it only repeats once here, the following beat is 1/2 meaning that it needs a note which is clearly audible and strong here 04:15:098 - and so on.
    04:39:796 (5,6,7) - here it's done perfectly (!), except for the fact that this burst isn't 1/3 04:39:538 (1,2,3,4,5) - but luckily that's easy to fix
  4. 02:51:111 - this triple is very audible, even a 1/4 slider covering it would be good, or just make it a full triple since the stronger sound in this 2 note guitar riff is the second one, meaning it would support the second extended note (02:51:176 (4) - ) well.
  5. 03:16:779 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this is definitely 1/3
    03:17:296 (9,10,11,12) - seems like 1/2s but meh keep them as 1/4 sliders since flute sounds are kinda extended
    03:17:813 (1,2,3,4,5) - 1/3
    03:18:071 (5) - the rest from here looks like http://puu.sh/m5Xe8/084319064c.jpg
    03:25:055 (1) - also 1/3, most easy to tell from the first 4 notes here 03:25:055 (1,2,3,4,5) - (they're actually 5 now because its 1/4 not 1/3)
    also asked mr. pishifat to check it http://puu.sh/m5XrG/b14eb2a0ab.png
  6. 03:32:038 (4) - shouldn't be a slider, make 2 circles because 2 strong sounds instead.
  7. 04:46:522 (1,2,3) - 04:47:815 (7,8) - you cant just follow vocals like that when theres nothing in the background, if youre not removing them at least make the hitsounds really low volume and fit them or something because right now it feels REALLY awkward
  8. 05:01:610 (1,2) -why is this not a triple, what makes this bass drum hit 05:01:610 (1) - weaker than the one at 05:01:688 - ???

  • timing stuff
  1. 04:22:468 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - this isn't even close to being on time. also it has 6 notes not 7
  2. 04:48:565 (1) - insufficient timing, goes off when the drummer takes a pause right here 04:49:211 (11) - , meaning everything else after that is off and feels weird. the whole section is really varied since the drummer basically goes rambo mode, i'd suggest using a spinner instead

  • stuff that is weird
  1. to begin this, ill mention that this statement http://puu.sh/m5YPf/95cfcd10b0.png infuriates me. ill try to explain why i feel like it right here, now.
    00:47:316 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - what the hell is this. i only hear notes on 00:47:316 (3,4,5) - and 00:47:579 (7,9) - but not the rest.
    01:01:641 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - only notes are here 01:01:641 (1,3,5) -
    01:18:460 (5,6,7,8,9,10) - only 5 notes here, nothing is here 01:18:783 (10) - , although this one isn't as brutal as the other ones and in my opinion supports the song, i'd never do it myself though
    03:49:494 (10) - ^
    01:24:538 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - ... what 01:24:538 (4,5,6,8,10,1) - these are the only sounds that exist
    01:59:710 (9) - this one only has the 1/2s in it, no 1/4s at all. sounds disgusting with those hitsounds covering nothingness
    02:49:431 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - this only has 3 notes in that interval on the song while 8 are mapped 02:49:495 (4,6,1) -
    03:06:046 (5) - only 1/2s in this one again
    04:26:219 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - this reminds me of mythologias end, mapping streams to vocals, hell yeah, thats's intuitive to play
    most of these overmaps DO NOT emphasize anything and are just plain annoying to tap, they don't follow anything in the song, they don't help anything in the song to be supported, they're just there.
    if your excuse is that you map the long extended guitar/flute notes as streams, then please, go ahead and ruin the song completely by overmapping these guitar notes, for instance, 01:26:607 (2) - 01:43:288 (6) - 03:47:296 (5) - too! overmapping also needs consistency.
  2. diff name. is it relevant? if it is, why? it sounds extremely cringey for a song like this. also capitalize every letter or only the first word and nouns, it's random as of now.

  • stuff that looks weird
  1. alright well i think majority of mappers would agree with me that these sliders look extremely UNAPPEALING.
    00:01:782 (3) -
    00:03:839 (2) - alright every slider in the intro that is longer than like 1/1 looks ugly.
    00:23:688 (6) - okay this one is an exception, it looks good
  2. after using grey nodes or simply straight sliders for most of the song after the intro, here you decide red nodes would be a good idea 01:18:848 (1) - . these two 01:19:107 (2) - 01:19:624 (4) - look fine, but these two 01:18:848 (1) - 01:19:365 (3) - just scream "hello 2008" to me. and no, i mean it in the bad way.
  3. 03:10:055 (4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - do these 1/3 burst shapes follow anything because they look awful without any reason right now
  4. 03:25:055 (1) - can you atleast use slider to stream conversion tool when you change these, because right now it looks awful because of the fact it is obviously manually hand-placed with just DS on, which makes it uncircular/uneven everywhere.
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